Game 133, Mariners at Blue Jays
Dave · August 31, 2007 at 3:30 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
Washburn vs Marcum, 4:07 pm on the West Coast.
In what I expect to become something like the new standard line-up for a little while, at least, we have the following:
1. Ichiro, CF
2. Vidro, 2B
3. Guillen, RF
4. Ibanez, DH
5. Beltre, 3B
6. Broussard, 1B
7. Johjima, C
8. Jones, LF
9. Betancourt, SS
Jones essentially replaces Jose Lopez. The outfield defense gets better, the infield defense gets worse. On a night with Jarrod Washburn starting, that’s the right way to do it if you’re going to punt defense somewhere.
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Marcum, btw, establishing himself as a solid young starter. Could be a nice matchup.
Marcum: 3.62 ERA, 136.2 IP, 22 HR, 37 BB, 106 K
Washburn: 4.13 ERA, 161.1 IP, 15 HR, 50 BB, 93 K
Marcum’s been above league-average except he’s giving up the home runs a little quickly. Like 50% over where you’d want him to be. He’s about neutral G/F this year, pretty good stuff.
hey, you probably should adjust for 4pm pacific time too.
I have a feeling this is as close as we’re going to get to what we want. I hope we go on a run…
3 – I agree, minus Vidro at 2nd, i feel this is the closest to the ideal lineup the M’s can put out there. Well Good luck Mariners! I’ll be listening in the car when i deliver pizzas.
Dave, DMZ, anyone else:
Thoughts on the September Callups list?
I think we’ll have a post on this later.
I have a sinking thought in the back of my head that:
* McLaren will stretch Washburn to ~110 pitches
* White gets another relief appearance
* JJ will be acclimated to viewing the late innings from the bullpen
* This losing streak will be prolonged for another game
* The win probability chart for this game will look like a sine wave
* A “tired bullpen” will once again be cited
Hooray for lingering pessimism!
I’m ok with this lineup, so long as they insist on “punishing” Lopez. Additionally, I’m not sure Willie helps you with the bat against a RHP.
7- No way White is put in a situation with a lead. He has thrown last 2 games so we might not see him at all. With a 5 run lead or less JJ is on the game in the 9th. Think you are right on everything else.
Per Geoff Baker, here are the September callups:
joining the team tomorrow will be:
OF Mike Morse
OF Charlton Jimerson
C Rob Johnson
LHP Ryan Feierabend
LHP John Parrish (no groaning, please)
RHP Sean White
Joining the team on Sept. 3 after the Class AAA season ends:
OF Jeremy Reed
OF Wladimir Balentien
INF Nick Green (onetime big prospect name from a while back)
C Jeff Clement
And these folks are now off the 40-man roster, having been outrighted without being claimed:
INF Oswalsdo Navarro
LHP Jake Woods
C Rene Rivera
OF Mike Wilson
hmm, give McLaren both John Parrish and Rick White, he’s the happiest man on earth!
I guess Mark Lowe isn’t where they want him…
Rene Rivera not claimed!!! Shocking!!!
Continuing from the previous thread with 7 day average OPS, here’s Jose Lopez. His brother died on or just before June 13, or roughly game 60. You do the math. He’s never been the same since, although he had been on a bit of an uptick lately.
Toronto has a good starting rotation (when healthy). In fact, their entire pitching staff is pretty damn solid – 2nd best ERA in the AL, and an ERA+ of 117. Accardo has been a surpringly good closer as well. Unlike Toronto teams of recent years, their offense seems to be their weak point – .257/.324/.419, ranking 12th/11th/9th respectively in the AL. Also 12th in runs scored.
Interesting topic at ESPN.com about how White has been instrumental in three of the six games the M’s have lost. I used to think that McLaren was doing okay, not I have lost all faith in him. Which leads to the question, will he be around next year? And if not who will Bavasi go after?
Where’s our ignitor? How can we ever expect to turn this losing streak around without some ignition?
Anyone know anything about Charlton Jimerton? Is he just for defense, pinchrunning?
Baseball needs an injury report, all these phantom injuries like Wells and Raul need to be known about by fans. Why do we find out 2 months later that Wells has had a shoulder injury?
I see Joba Chamberlin got suspended for 2 games today. Does that mean we will not see him in the NY series? That guy is scary good, and I wouldn’t want any part of him in late innings.
Good AB by Vidro with Marcum’s low walk rate. Let’s put it to use.
Ichiro tied Delino DeShields for #516 on the all time hit list.
When Baseball Tonight did their “best homeruns in club history” for each team, which homers were chosen for the Mariners and when did it air?
Beltre is my hero
MacDonald is a lot of fun to watch in the field.
That artificial turf does look horrible, like the astroturf my grandparents used to have on their patio. Shouldn’t there be a big wrinkle in the turf where that defender slid around?
McDonald is a good SS. One of the quickest releases I have seen from SS that I can remember.
Is it too early to go to Rick White to sew this game up?
Oh yeah, McDonald, not MacDonald.
Sorry, I’ve got Norm on the mind.
Wow…even Rizzy mentioned on the air just now that he thought Mac would bring in JJ in the ninth last night.
When HE stops drinkin’ the FO Kool-Aid, you know things are bad.
The Rally 90 Shilling seems to be working.
Is it weird I am still afraid of Frank Thomas as a hitter? He is not completely washed up but he isn’t the Big Hurt anymore.
30: Not weird at all…Big Frank is still capable of inflicting some damage.
Good, I was hoping it wasn’t a childhood thing.
Good slide by Jones.
Sweet tag Vidro.
Can they sit Vidro to think about his shitty range? Please?
For a moment there, I thought his plan was to fall on the runner, crushing him beneath his belly.
further proof vidro is a waste of space at 2nd. all he has to do is get a tag down, and he can’t even do that
I missed the missed tag because I was mesmorized by the throw. Was he really safe?
GREAT throw. Turbo should have had him. Oh wait, we don’t care about defense.
Vido wasn’t in position on the damn bag there. He shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a baseball field wearing a mitt.
between seeing Raul choke on another fly ball yesterday and that gun by AJ, Johnny Mac has no excuse not to DH Ibanez and stick Jones in left. Especially if he insists on putting turbo in there at 2nd
offence? I hope the Blue Jays TSN misspelled that on purpose.
thats how the crazy canadians spell it
Time to head home, and I don’t have my radio with me today. I’m relying on you all to keep us in the…. oh. crap.
When they are in the field, Turbo and Raul both remind me of those metal dudes that moved along the track in those old electric table-top baseball games from years ago.
But wait, I think THOSE guys had better range.
Oh Jesus H. Vidro White Christ.
Wash is at 51 pitches. Fortunately, it’s not like he can’t go more than 90…
we are playing just terrible….I’ll be surprised if we win 8 more games this year. That may just be frustration talking but come on. 1st and 3rd 1 out last inning can’t push, then Vidro misses a tag that most of us could’ve made, goodness.
so, those not relying on radio, are Marcum & Washburn really throwing that mny balls, or are they balls according to the ump?
You know, we can talk all we want about who should be playing where out in the field or who’s coming out of the bullpen, but the real problem with this team is that we don’t have a playoff-caliber starting rotation. Not even close. We’ll be lucky to get five innings out of Washburn.
47 – They’re really balls.
AB!
Well if he was my hero after an RBI single I guess he is now a superhero
um, because they don’t have to tell us about an injury unless the player wants to tell us? the same HIPAA privacy rules apply to them…
Way to go, AB. At least the M’s have oh, three guys playing reasonably well.
Gee, y’all saying if we had a rotation that could go seven or eight innings and give up three or less runs, we would have a tired bullpen or even SEE a RIck White in the game?
Wow. What a concept….
#49. that is just sad.
#54– you know. Like the Angels
48, couldn’t agree more. it’s hard to stop a losing streak when we have 3 number 3 starters and two number 5’s. the one disappointment from april to this point has been the mediocrity of felix. the rest of the starters can never be counted on to stop a losing streak. it’s up to the offense or bad pitching from the opponents.
56 – Or the Blue Jays, for that matter.
::preemptive knock on wood:: DRays 3 Yanks 0
oh, for petesake.
Forget Pete, for our sake!
this road trip is starting out sweet.
I’ve judge Felix to be much more inconsistent than mediocre.
And, at that, his performance is not THAT bad…
We’re getting Washed.
Thanks Wash! >:(
64, and hung out to dry.
Well I guess it really isn’t going to matter to much if the freaking Yankees lose or not is it. On a somewhat related note, when using the “word” (T9 on other carriers) feature while texting on my Verizon phone the default for the combination of letters that would spell freaking, comes up with the word freakhog, which I personally found incredibly amusing.
Whoa! Already 5-2? I guess it’s time for Glaus and Overbay to get hot!
say! I’m not too sure this rotation is gonna hold up when we make the post-season …
he wasn’t called “the king” to be ‘not that bad’. we need a number one to emerge sometimes before his 25th birthday.
That quick shot of the managers/coaches on the bench after yet another hit from Washburn…talk about body language.
But like every Mariner player insists in every single damn interview, every team has its rough patches! Tonight’s just another rough patch. This past week’s been just a massive, thorny, patch of brambles that everyone’s gotten stuck in and can’t seem to escape from.
This reminds me of the M’s first inning against the Angels Tuesday night, but Seattle wqas doing the scoring that time.
game over….time to begin drinking heavily!
God bless my crappy memory that forgot to turn on the DVR today.
#70– which will be, oh, some 3.5 years from now.
so, let’s see, Ryan R-S should be all rested from sitting on the bench last night.
this defense isn’t helping Washburn, either.
Yuni looks like he isn’t concentrating out there lately.
Flyball pitcher in Toronto is not good news.
Sigh.
At least my fantasy team will make the playoffs. All the Mariners need to do is get Adam Dunn, Carl Crawford, David Ortiz, Tim Lincecum, Fausto Carmona and Roy Halladay, and they’ll be fine.
Chaves is saying, “don’t throw any more homeruns. Or grounders to the shortstop.”
Of course, it doesn’t help matters much when Yuni is playing SS like he’s a graduate of the Dale Sveum Institute.
Flyball pitcher in Toronto is not good news.
The Blue Jays are also pretty ridiculous at hitting left-handed pitching. As a team, they are hitting .294/.365/.474 against lefties, which gives them a 17%-better-than-league-average OPS against lefties.
i heard rick white might be moving into the starting rotation for the yankee series. mac wants to get him more bump time.
and, you know, Marcum keeps trying to let the Ms get into the game…
In less than a week, I’ve gone from excited Mariner fan in a pennant chase to one of those fans who watches his terrible team every day just to watch the new prospect and dream of better days.
[Sims]
so. many. base. runners.
I think I have the same shirt as Homer Bush. He is in the broadcast booth for TSN.
[Sims]
Rizzs thinks the opposing batters have been waaay too comfortable in the box the last 6 days … he opined the pitchers should throw inside more, just as Glaus launched one
was that inning as bad live as it was “watching” it on Gameday? was that really an 11 pitch inning?
Garko looked comfortable walking to 1st in the 9th last night.
How will we know when Washburn gets tired?
Wow, the Toronto announcers are openly making fun of McLaren for sticking to his starters, even when they suck.
Washburn must have checked the Blog before he went out there and felt bad for Marcum since he’d given up so many more homers. Good thing we have a team of nice guys, baseball skills be damned.
I think McLaren gave up on this season long before we did.
I never understand why managers, given the chance, bring the same pitcher in. Are they teeing off on Washburn? How do you feel about a guy with almost exactly the same stuff, except not quite as good?
I am going to Rally not watch this game anymore and see if that helps. Either way I win.
93 Either A it’s the 7th inning or B he’s thrown 80 pitches. Criteria B has been more than settled tonight
Really, Dave? Morrow is all but guaranteed to be in the starting rotation next year?
Even the foul balls are bombs.
#97– but he’s a different guy! he’ll have different stuff! Really!
WTF? I saw coaching visit to the mound on gameday, and was expecting that to be followed by the obviously needed pitching change announcement, yet somehow the next batter has come up and dear Mr Washburn remains.
Five BB, no K, three HR = recipe for TEH SUCK.
This lineup crushes lefties.
McLaren: “Bring in the lefty!”
Apparently it’s silly to make a pitching change when there aren’t any runners in scoring position.
Toronto announcer: “absolutely what John McLaren did not want out of a starter tonight.”
99 – Those are the normal criteria. Tonight I think it’s based on number of HR.
#107
Well duh.
you know, JJ could use some work …
gil meche would look good in that rotation right now. apparently spending money on first basemen hitting .210 for 15 million is a better buy though.
Toronto announcers basically just outlined how RRS is the same pitcher as Washburn. “Lefty, doesn’t throw very hard . . .”
108 Good call, we know McLaren isn’t a big pitch count guy. So he must just set a limit of dingers allowed, maybe it’s some kind of HR/BB combo figure since he pulled him after a walk. Now that is sound management strategy.
Why don’t we just replace the back half of our rotation with the front half of the Tacoma rotation? Might actually find a starter to get past six.
At the very least it gives Mac a few other pitchers to abuse.
#109. huh. Exact same thing the Mariners announcers are saying.
Lyle Overbay looks cross-eyed and/or drunk on his official MLB profile pic.
116, that’s because he’s from centralia. everybody from there looks like that.
Vidro needs to make up for the non-tag.
well, thank you!
WOO!
I just got home, so I claim full responsibility for that.
Turbo!
Now he’ll be at 2B the rest ofthe year
117: Not everybody looks like that. You forgot the ones that look and act like rodents when cats start coming too close.
Vidro continues to stick it to USSM skepticism. “No power, you say?”
Well I’ll be a monkey’s uncle
Raul needs to make up for something, too.
Well I’ll be a baboon’s second cousin once removed. How about Twin Turbo blasts tonight?
It’s brown now?
Does Gas Can dye his stupid beard a different color every day?
I like that shot of the bullpen, where you can see George shaking his head as he tells Richard F. White, “man, I dunno why you suck so much”
Maybe if Whitey shaved whatever is growing on his chin, he’d be more effective.
127: I bet he thought that if it worked for that all-star Scot Queesio, it surely has to work for him too.
I maintain that Rick “Oil Refinery” White has no beard, but uses a Velcro goatee kit.
NICE.
well, obviously gold was the reason he failed.
#131
Didn’t John Curly give fans at the Salt Lake winter Olympics velcro soul patches in honor of Apolo Ohno?
good Yuni!
does MLB drug test in september? i’d recommend getting the starters on a balco cycle for the playoff push.
Even BALCO won’t help this rotation of “veterans”
bret boone might be able to suggest something.
holy cripes. Reed Johnson is wearing one of White’s velcro beards in his Yahoo photo
neither here nor there but carlos pena just hit his 2nd dong vs. the yanks tonight. 33 hr. now THAT’s production from a first baseman.
Is that Richie Sexson playing first base? I thought he was hurt?
neither here nor there but carlos pena just hit his 2nd dong vs. the yanks tonight. 33 hr. now THAT’s production from a first baseman.
Not to mention that Tampa Bay is paying him a whopping $800,000 this season.
ignoring just who might be hitting those home runs, there is a difference between hitting HRs in Tropicana and in Safeco
how close was that to being a homer?
Close enough.
134 – Yes, I recall that actually.
142-No kidding. I actually got away with trading Pena for Pujols in one of my fantasy leagues.
I can’t believe how quickly things can change. Monday I had pennant fever -today I can’t remember why I even deluded myself into thinking we had a shot.
Were any of the three outs that inning great defensive plays?
131, Rick “Oil Refinery” White goes nicely with my favorite sailor’s adage:
Red sky at night, refinery’s alight
Yuniiii!
I need to feel the Mariner Mojo risin!
Ichiro looks not so great at the plate these days.
Hey guys anyone read the new article on the mariners website about the 10 players being called up in september, theres some good names on there, except maybe Parrish. Check it out, its under the title, Sexon’s injury.
Better not leave him stranded, boys.
is it just me or has Ichiro been striking out a LOT lately?
Ugly swing!
whatdidn’twebunt?
whatdidn’twebunt?
whatdidn’twebunt?
Playoff teams don’t waste leadoff doubles. ‘Nuff said.
small ball, mac style…don’t get the runner over or in.
Whiff. Whiff. Good grief!
Dave posted the drop in offense in the previous post
Nice productive inning boys. Why’s Guillen still batting third anyways? Oh yeah, he’s McLaren’s boy.
156 – Ichiro: 7 K’s last 5 games. His career ratio is about 1 K per 2.5 games.
who’s the best free agent starter available this winter? i heard it’s slim pickins with no zambrano and buehrhrhhle.
that was Rizzs’ fault, he was just annointing RR-S for a place in the future rotation.
Tampa 6, NYY 1, bottom 7.
Is it still reasonable to scoreboard-watch?
Ichiro does have two hits today though.
I’m sure Bavasi won’t have a problem signing or trading for a few more dead arms.
after this last week, that commercial with JJ sitting all sad and lonely in the bullpen just isn’t as funny ….
maybe they can sign david wells to sit on sexson for a few months.
Wow, Toronto is also pushing luxury seats.
That Baker guy in Minnesota is perfect through 5 with 7 Ks.
In relevant sports news, halftime score UW 14 Syracuse 6
beltre time…somebody needs to save this season.
ignoring just who might be hitting those home runs, there is a difference between hitting HRs in Tropicana and in Safeco
Tropicana is playing as more of a pitchers’ park than Safeco this season, at least according to ESPN’s Park Factors:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
The numbers obviously fluctuate from year to year, but the idea of Tropicana being a great hitters’ park seems to be a myth.
Beltre waving pitifully so far
swung on and beltre-d way high in the air yippee
ESPN’s park factors are terrible.
Kenjii!!! Mr Double!
Wow, Reed looking like Ral out there
didn’t need to swing at the first pitch there, AJ
ESPN’s park factors are terrible.
Are they really? I kinda figured, just ’cause it’s ESPN and it’s probably oversimplified, but it’s the one I always seem to be directed to. What should I be looking at?
Errrrgh.
Count it! How many ground ball outs to the left side have we now to end scoring threats?
Putz! YES!
Well, I’m glad to see a situation for Putz to pitch finally arose. I mean, I wouldn’t have been forced to use him outside of his “closer” role…bah.
Wouldn’t want to be forced, rather.
Wait, wait, wait — why would you use Putz here, but not in a critical situation against your divisional opponents?
DMZ – I don’t get what you’re talking about. Has that come up recently?
Now Felix is loosening up – that will take care of any complaints about JM not using his best pitchers.
189, McLaren’s rules don’t apply in Canada, I guess.
baker is perfect thru seven…
Well, the good thing about not using JJ for so long is that it was the best way to keep him sharp for serious situations such as this.
UW 21 Syracuse 6
Tampa 9, NYY 1, mid 9th. If Gas Can was a D-Ray, would he pitch the bottom of the 9th?
Even JJ Putz Em ahead these days. . .wow team in total dysfunction.
JJ is just covering for JM – showing that he isn’t sharp when it isn’t a save situation, thereby vindicating lsat night’s pen management.
If anyone is wondering about the Joba Chamberlain suspensio and whether it will have any effect on the Mariners / Yankees series that starts Monday, it will not. Chamberlain was suspended for throwing consecutive pitches — one at 98mph and one at 99mph — over the head of Kevin Youkilis.
Chamberlain is not appealing the suspension and is serving the suspension tonight and Saturday.
He will be in uniform on Sunday and will be as well for the series against the M’s.
Wow, don’t see many perfect games these days.
And so the annual late-season implosion continues. Guess this is a new
tradition started last year. Sigh.
Ichiros magic singling ability seems so quaint in this situation. . . .erggggggg
Thank you astroturf and Aaron Hill’s shoddy defense.
perfect thru eight. but the royals are sending up buck, german and pena, jr. so it’s no sure thing.
would be great to get to Ibanez, these are the type of pitchers he can hit. Ibanez could be the hero tonight if he gets a chance
UW 28 Syracuse 6
Lets go Singling Brothers Guillen and Rauuuuuuul Circus!
Yes please.
Time for Proven Veteran Grit to show its true magical abilities with Raul at bat.
That was an awesome DP…. wow.
I can’t even believe that.
wow, Sims just psyched us out.
LOL so sadly predictable
fantastic way to end things, m’s! only 30 games left to lose.
Guillen’s HBP got the WE up to 30% for the M’s.
Oh well.
Grrrbllllghhgah.
i’m with everyone else, all i can do is just shake my head and laugh. …i’d love to be positive, but how else would this game have ended?
216: Richy White walking another bases loaded bottom of the nineth tie game?
The only “positive” thing is that the Yankees lost, so the Mariners didn’t lose any ground.
do we get any supplemental draft picks for having two seven game losing streaks after the all-star break?
Baker starts off 9th 2-0 uh oh
Woah, how much does that suck for Baker? Still could get the no-hitter though.
boo he suks lol i wish any of our pitchers sucked like him
219 – We don’t get any supplemetal draft picks, but we might get to rid ourselves of Johnny Mc!
2 outs to go.
There goes the no-hitter
I love the Twins announcer on Sweeney, “I never liked him anyway”.
you just knew hed mess it up
Well at least he got the shutout. Good for him! CG 1-hit shutout, I’d take that from Batista tomorrow. Or, is that too much to ask?
I’d take a 1-hitter through 2 innings from Batista.
wouldn’t it have been nice if Baker had been gettable at the start of the year ….
my, those are some sad Orangemen fans.
Neihaus, moments ago: “Well, there’s help on the way…”
He was referring, of course, to the call-ups of Feierabend, Parrish and (Little) White.
However, Larry Fine, Curly Howard and Moe Howard would probably be better.
Why was Felix out throwing in the pen?
233: Probably ‘cuz he’s one of the few semi-effective pitchers we have at the moment.
isn’t it his throw day, between starts?
Wow, what a debacle. I kept expecting this to happen sooner or later but I got lulled into a false sense of security or something thinking this might be the year where divine intervention played a part in Mariners destiny.
235 that’s what I was hoping, rather than some new strange McLarenism.
Time to pull the plug and play the kids?
235 & 237: Actually, I heard Neihaus mention during the radio broadcast that it was, in fact, his throw day. Post #234 was merely me being a smart arse.
ThomJim: What if “playing the kids” is the best way to not pull the plug at all?
Seems to me that this game, unlike the last few, was lost on the field rather than in the dugout.
The DP that ended the game was remarkable.. all you can do is shake your head and come back tomorrow.
Yuppers. Not that many late game brain-lock decisions. A few inches to the left, the ball skips off the glove and at least one run scores (and this is the sort of luck that happened earlier this year).
OMG, the math is contagious:
The Mariners are in the fourth major slump of the season. This is the second streak of seven consecutive losses. They also lost six in succession two other times. That’s a total of 26 losses.
Seattle is 73-34 when it isn’t in a major losing streak, making for a .682 winning percentage in those other games.
“When you take away those 26, we’ve really put it all together in the rest of our games,” Jose Vidro said after taking another turn at second base for Jose Lopez. “And yet the only way to look at it is after all those losses, we’re still in pretty good shape. This club will come back, there’s no doubt about it.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/330003_mari01.html?source=rss
243- HAHAHA, Vidro actually said “when you take away those 26…” I thought it was a joke! OMG, Johnny Mac has really f’d with this team’s mindset.
When you take away the times they suck, they don’t suck!
237–Actually, in the post game interview, Mac said that if the M’s either tied or took the lead that Felix was going to come into the game as the next available arm…and that Eric O would have been called on if Felix couldn’t close it out.
At this rate, it’s only a matter of time before the murmurs about “if Ichiro really cared about this team, he’d agree to the move from center to the mound” start up.
246: Thanks for passing that along. Though I missed McLaren’s post-game interview tonight (actually, I can’t stomach sitting through Huttyler & Valle — especially after a loss when the team is playing brutal), that pretty much further confirms to me his chilling ineptitude as a “manager”.
But, I guess on the bright side, at least Felix might have accidentally lucked into the gift win that Mac screwed him out of against Johan Santana a couple of weeks ago when he brought in Parrish to stink up the joint.
from the Toronto Star:
“Smart base running, smarter defence, adequate pitching and ruthless hitting drove Toronto to a 7-5 victory over Seattle.”
yup. it takes ruthless hitting to golf meatballs out of the park….