Comments on: Relievers Wearing Down

By: John D.

John D. — Sun, 16 Sep 2007 01:33:09 +0000

Re: # 45 – Somehow part of the beginning of my diatribe did not appear.
It should read:
“Although most of the discussion of Mariner management’s inordinate preference…”

By: John D.

John D. — Sun, 16 Sep 2007 01:26:10 +0000

Allthough most of the discussion ’s inordinate preference for “experienced” veterans over raw rookies has centered on the bullpen, other positions have been mentioned too. [See # 44 and others.]
A case in point is Ichiro’s depriving Felix of a win last night by playing shallow–the ball landed short of the warning track.
(Of course, had Velandia hit a flare, and Ichiro made a shoe-string catch…)
Anyway, nothing was said on the broadcast nor in today’s Seattle newspapers. But had Adam Jones (or Reed or Jimerson) been out there, you can bet we would have heard about how the outfielders should be playing deep in that situation to prevent the run-scoring double; that it was simply a “rookie mistake.”

By: jlc

jlc — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:29:06 +0000

It doesn’t completely get to the question of our bullpen wearing out, but Tango, et al, looked at relievers in The Book.

A couple of points they made:

Relief pitchers of today should be able to handle 25-pitch outings because the pitchers of the recent past were able to do so. Those pitchers had careers, as measured in games or number of pitches thrown, as long or longer than the recent pitchers.

They also looked at pitchers specifically with what they called “depleted tanks.” After analyzing data, the conclusion they came up with was:

Over a 5 day period, when relief pitchers are given 16 to 24 batters, their performance is unaffected. Current relief pitchers could probably handle an increase in their workload by 30% to 40%…

msb already quoted JJ’s response to the “inexperience” question.

I also think it’s easier to single out relievers than position players. Guillen can drop a couple of balls in a game and that doesn’t make the headline the next day, where a reliever giving up a HR does. All the ills of the team seem to be conveniently left at the bullpen’s doorstep.

By: rcc

rcc — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:11:08 +0000

Another excellent post Dave. The disturbing thing is that not only is M’s front office incompetent, but the local media is unable or unwilling to properly do any analysis either….exception pass goes to Geoff Baker and Larry Stone because they usually do their homework.

By: gwangung

gwangung — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:06:36 +0000

Yeah, that distribution of innings is also what I’m wondering about….

By: Adam S

Adam S — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 03:00:09 +0000

Jeff touched on this a bit in 30, but I had the following two questions about relief pitcher usage.

1) Is 80-85 innings really too much to ask of a relied pitcher?
2) Would Green et al be more effective if they had 60 innings in 45 games pitched rather than 60 IP in 60 G? I assume the micro-managing of the pen adds to the wear and tear and ineffectiveness of the pen, but is there any data?

Thanks

By: drjeff

drjeff — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:48:08 +0000

Has anyone, anywhere, EVER taken an empirical, factually-supported look at whether players in general, and pitchers in particular “wear down” over the course of a season?

I wonder how much of the “wearing down” process is physical, and how much of it is mental fatigue? I mean, these guys sure play a lot of games, but if you look at the actual physical demands of a position player, much of the fatigue seems to come from grueling travel schedules and other off-the-field factors. I’m not saying that being a ballplayer is an easy gig, but there are an awful lot of people in other jobs who seem to be able to sustain a fairly consistent level of performance on a year-round basis, with a couple weeks off here and there.

As far as pitchers go, I can see the wearing down process being a little more tangibly physical, but again, I wonder how much of this fatigue is simply trying to sustain a high level of concentration over the grind of an entire season.

By: msb

msb — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:11:01 +0000

Bob Engle(who was slated to get the job before Bavasi was suddenly hired)

huh? Bob Engle didn’t even interview for the job. They talked to Benny Looper, Al Avila, Omar Minaya, Mike Port, David Wilder, Lee Pelekoudas & Bavasi.

By: Karen

Karen — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 02:04:24 +0000

#31 Bearman said, “I’m futher saying before you go painting McLaren with the veteran only brush like so many here and in other blogs I post on.”

Something just occurred to me.

McLaren is a rookie manager. The only “veteran-ness” he can claim is that of a bench coach.

I wish some representative of this blog, some other Mariners blog, or one of the print media reps would gently remind him of that…say, in one of those 5 minute radio spots or something?

By: pumpkinhead

pumpkinhead — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 01:42:54 +0000

30- That wouldn’t even include bullpen warm-ups without appearances, in which they never faced a batter. I’m sure that would add to any end-of-season-fatigue, but fatigue may not be the issue in his case.

Who knows. Do you think a pitcher would be able to tell you if he was fatigued, or is it more of an unconscious thing that the pitcher is unaware of?