Can you chew at Safeco?
Legally, that is. Throwing this out to the hive mind: the M’s claim you can’t smoke or use chaw at Safeco Field (never you mind that wad Ibanez works over, spitting streams of brown goo):
Smoking
In compliance with the Washington Clean Air Act, Safeco Field is a no smoking (including smokeless tobacco) facility.
Except that doesn’t seem to be right, as it’s not covered in the Washington Clean Air Act (Chapter 70.94 RCW).
They might mean Chapter 70.160 RCW, the “Smoking in public places (formerly Washington Clean Indoor Air Act)” but I don’t see anything in there about keeping people from enjoying a pinch of jaw cancer. In fact, the definitions seems to be pretty clear that it’s only smoking that’s banned.
Am I wrong? Is the team claiming that chew tobacco is banned by law as a matter of convenience? Or is this addressed someplace else I’m not seeing?
Comments
USSM uses and recommends
maybe they just need to re-phrase it:
“In compliance with the Washington Clean Air Act, Safeco Field is a no smoking (except for some managers) facility.
Smokeless tobacco is prohibited in the stands because it is gross, and we don’t want to clean up after you. Just ignore all that spitting out in the field or in the clubhouses. “
Didn’t MLB ban chaw, but allow players to be grandfathered in, similar to the NHL rule about mandatory helmets? Some announcer on some game said that earlier this season. I apologize for the vagueness of my recollection, but I do remember hearing it. Since baseball announcers can be, how shall we put this, occaisonally mistaken, one should not take my vague recollection as gospel.
Regarding chewing tobacco: is there a “Clean Ground Act”? Because the substance clearly does not fall into substances banned by the Clean Air Act. How long is chewing tobacco even airborne, 1.2 seconds at most?
BTW, does anyone recall John Kruk or Lou Piniella smoking in the dugout? I remember Kruk taking big drags between innings. Funny stuff.
Yeah, Piniella used to smoke in the dugout once in a while. Then I think they had a word with him, because he started to sneak into the clubhouse to do it.
In the bad old days, when the bullpen was really really bad, Sweet Lou would burn half a pack of Marlboro reds in the 7th, 8th and 9th innings.
Smoking in Safeco is clearly illegal for everyone. Chewing is only illegal (or against the rules, anyway) if you had to buy a ticket.
It sounds like Safeco just took the easy way out, instead of specifically calling chewers “even more gross and disgusting than smokers.”
The Giants have a player with a chaw-related injury:
http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070829&content_id=2177176&vkey=news_sf&fext=.jsp&c_id=sf
Chaw is yucky.
Ibanez sucks as a role model.
Sorry, that should be “spits” as a role model, I guess.
Roughly what percentage of major league ballplayers chew? It still seems very much a part of “baseball culture”. It may be changing, but very slowly.
Well, as a private facility* Safeco can ban pretty much anything they want, as long as they don’t run afoul of civil rights (ie they can regulate you for what you do, but not for who you are). And given the team’s interest in not grossing out most of its patrons (not to mention the added cleanup expense) I’m quite sure they’d want to ban it whether it was a state law or not. But it makes the announcement and signs simpler to just lump all tobacco under state law. Plus it’s a nice polite fiction that allows them to deflect the wrath of any angry chaw addicts.
(I had a roommate in college who chewed. Nasty, nasty habit. There were always cups of spittle around the room, stinking the place up. He finally quit when his brother, who got him into the habit, had a cancer scare. At 25.)
*Yeah, I know they got public funding. Don’t get me started….
10 – About a third.
http://www.oralcancerfoundation.org/news/story.asp?newsId=1736
“Didn’t MLB ban chaw, but allow players to be grandfathered in, similar to the NHL rule about mandatory helmets? Some announcer on some game said that earlier this season. I apologize for the vagueness of my recollection, but I do remember hearing it. Since baseball announcers can be, how shall we put this, occaisonally mistaken, one should not take my vague recollection as gospel.”
No, I don’t believe so. All youth leagues, NCAA and the minor leagues technically prohibit chewing tobacco, but I couldn’t find anything saying it was banned in Major League Baseball…
13 – The players union specifically refused to discuss it at the MLB level, though it is banned in the minors. Given the great progress we’ve made on steriod use (/sarcasm), it doesn’t seem like the most important drug issue.
Chaw, like lutefisk and Bud Light, is one of those things I’ll just never understand why people put in their mouth.
11: True on the part about banning “pretty much anything they want” — remember that ridiculous debacle over the “Yankees Suck!” t-shirts about 4-5 years back?
15: Unlike chaw, however, lutefisk is actually MEANT to be eaten. >:P
recent article about Garagiola’s campaign
hmm. some interesting articles out here and “a href=”http://sports-law.blogspot.com/2006/04/case-for-banning-smokeless-tobacco-in.html”>there
eh. there
There is nothing in the Clean Air Act about smokeless tobacco (and I’m a lawyer, for what that’s worth). However, the M’s aren’t technically wrong. The ban of smokeless tobacco IS “in compliance with the Clean Air Act”… in the same way the ban is in compliance with the Federal Endangered Species Act. That is, by not violating it. And, as has been mentioned, it is certainly within the M’s rights to ban chaw by fans in Safeco.
Does Chewbacca have any left-handed socks?
Two points on chaw:
1. Red Man in the cheek at an all day, no score kept, softball game is perfecto.
2. Great moments in Mariner history: Ron Guidry swallows his chaw and pukes on the mound in the Kingdome.
Man, and you better believe they’ll enforce this stuff too.
I made the mistake of smoking about 15 feet away from the building, instead of 25, and I got politely asked to piss off and cancer myself to death somewhere else.
Bloody hell. When did that happen? Guess I missed this by not going to the park this year. I know that when I went last year, I was able to find a designated smoking area (way the hell away from everyone else).
(The guy I remember best for smoking in the clubhouse was Keith Hernandez.)
[totally not true]
#26 – they let me in and out to smoke all the time at safeco.
I haven’t been at Safeco in years but at Yankee stadium, they won’t do that.
Its too bad lawmakers aren’t more strict about making laws fighting alcohol abuse and obesity. But of course, alcohol companies make billions among billions of dollars a year, and sports stadiums are probably a big source of that revenue. And same with the junk food companies. Not like smoking a cigarette will cause someone to have a DUI.
I mean i understand what the nonsmokers are getting at, my dad smokes and i hate it, but give the smokers some sort of break. Give them a designated smoking area at the ballpark or something. Its just no fair for the smokers. (and chewers i suppose).
Maybe I’m just imagining it, but does it seem like more players started dipping after the amphetamine ban?
“Give them a designated smoking area at the ballpark or something. Its just no fair for the smokers.”
Er, smoke is no respecter of boundaries other than impervious walls, so “designated smoking areas” are stupid and ineffective. Why do you think the 25 ft rule was created? It’s because the lingering effects of smokers creates a very nasty lingering smoke haze.
Now, make a hermetically sealed room and let the smokers in there where the room can be exhausted through air scrubbers (preferably in see-through perspex containers so smokers can see what their poor lungs have to contend with) and so the air doesn’t get to the rest of us and I could almost see that – if you mae the smokers pay the cost of it.
I love the designated smoking rooms in airports (St Louis had some great ones with glass walls). You couldn’t see the other side of a 20 ft cube for the density of the smoke.
What about sniffing tobacco, as in the snuff that’s not ‘between the cheek and gum’?
Is this a new rule? I quit smoking a couple years ago but used to smoke at the top of the bleacher section by the control room where they open/close the roof and no Safeco staffers ever used to bother me, and there were plenty of other smokers, too. Same goes for the wide open spaces outside the 300 level that overlook Elliot Bay and downtown.
The 25-foot rule enacted in Initiative 901 that took effect in 12/2005 changed the rules. Those areas that people used to smoke in were within 25 feet of an entrance.
I know that ushers will remove people chewing – witnessed it. Too bad we can’t throw out the umpires that are chewing, too.
#15 – *lmao* Lutefisk I get; it’s ‘palate’ thing. But Bud Light? Yech.
#30 – I noticed that too. For awhile I thought it was my imagination.
Chewing inside Safeco has always been banned. I used to dip in the Kingdome days, but as soon as we moved across the street in 1999 it was no longer allowed. It is not tied to the recent smoking ban in any way.
As for why they let people out and back in for purposes of smoking, they have always allowed re-entry at Mariner games. Therefore it would be discrimination if they did not allow smokers back in but did allow people to run to their car and come back in.
“Smoking is not permitted in any location inside Safeco Field or within 25-feet of all entrances, windows and ventilation intakes. Smoking is permitted only in designated areas 25-feet away from the Home Plate, Left Field and Center Field Gates, as well as the north end of the Parking Plaza. Guests exiting the ballpark to smoke must have their ticket scanned for re-entry by a Gate Host prior to exiting.”
So it would seem like there are actually two issues:
- Safeco Field bans chew, but not for umpires, managers, or players
- Safeco Field claims that this is to comply with the law, but it’s not
That’s lame of them on both counts.
I made this exact observation a month or so ago at a game. The “no smoking, no chewing” signs seem pretty prevalent all over the stadium. Yet if you watch a game from home it seems a good portion of those players have half a can in their mouth at any given moment.
I remeber the days of Boone, he would have a HUGE wad in only when he came up to bat. Once he reached first, the first thing he would do is roll that thing out before he took his lead. Why would you want that in your mouth when someones throwing at your head at 90 mph?!?!?
One thing that does bother me is Felix’s use of the Cha’. He always puts in a dip after being taken out of a game. So while Sims, or whoever is babbling on how good his stuff was that night, the camera focuses in on him sitting on the bench with his bottom lip sticking out like he’s hiding a pop can in there. I think the only reason it only bothers me when Felix chews is obviously his value to the franchise and that he’s so young.
Best “smoking in the dugout” that I ever witnessed was in the early 80s when Al Cowens was sitting at the far end of the bench with a cigarette. He kept it cupped in his hand and had an eye on the manager at the other end of the dugout. When the manager looked away, Al got his nicotine fix…
I only saw him do it once – not sure if it was a regular routine or done on a dare just that one time.
yeah, that Minor League ban is really doing its job.
I used to love ‘major league chew’, the gum. Now that I look back on that, it’s so wrong.
“Hey, snuff is cool! But since you’re underage, you can pretend to be cool with chewing gum!” heh.
Doesn’t Guillen chew too?
I sent fan feedback a note. We’ll see what they say.
Yes, Guillen puts a huge wad in his mouth.
#13 — Thanks, and you are right. The ban exists in the minors. I have no idea as to the ban’s effectiveness. I went to a few Spokane Indians games and didn’t notice any chaw, for what that’s worth.
“Thank you for your letter. The Seattle Mariners are always glad to recieve ….”
Hee hee hee.
Hmm…wonder if Derek’s depressed that THIS thread has gotten more comments than his two previous HoRam posts combined.
Nah. This is a MUCH worthier subject to discuss…
Well, nowwww I’m depressed.
Well, I can’t help; I’ve already bought the Cheater’s Guide…
Tobacco Ban in Minors , June 3, 1993
Major league baseball jumped on the anti-tobacco bandwagon yesterday — with one foot. It announced that all minor league players, coaches and umpires would be forbidden to smoke or chew tobacco anywhere in their ball parks or on team buses. The ban, which takes effect June 15, applies to more than 6,000 uniformed baseball personnel on the 160 minor league teams, but not to fans, employees of the clubs or to any major league players, including those sent down to the minors for rehabilitation. That’s because major leaguers have rights under a collective bargaining agreement. Under the new policy, which comes two years after chewing tobacco was banned in the lower minor leagues, violators will be subject to ejection and fines — ranging from $100 to $300 depending on the league level — for each offense.
and
Since its establishment in 1994, National Spit Tobacco Education Program has partnered with the Professional Baseball Athletic Trainers Society (PBATS), the American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA), and Little League Baseball, Incorporated. In early 2000, NSTEP negotiated a partnership between Major League Baseball (MLB) and MLB Players Association to sponsor NSTEP Spring Training activities. At Spring Training, the program offered soft-tissue oral examinations, cessation counseling, and educational presentations on the causes and effects of oral cancer to Major League players and coaching staff. During the course of the 2000 season, NSTEP also brokered partnerships with Minor League Baseball and the Crown Council, a national organization of dental practitioners committed to promoting good oral health through community-based charitable activities. NSTEP and the Crown Council provides over 4000 Minor League ballplayers and staff with educational programming, oral examinations, and cessation counseling during Spring Training, effectively reinforcing Minor League Baseball’s tobacco-free policy (in place since 1993).
There may be a difference in what is allowed and what isn’t. Chew, as in Redman, creates enormous amounts of saliva and is usually stuck in the side of the cheek. Regular “dip”, as in Skoal, is usually put between the front gums and the lip and creates nowhere near the same amount of saliva, therefore causing less mess. I worked as an usher in Safeco for a couple years and there was never a mention of either of these, just smoking. I’ve dipped there before (as a fan, not an usher) with no problems. I don’t chew so I can’t speak for those who pack the big wads like Guillen does.
Given tobacco’s stimulant qualities, couldn’t chewing tobacco be considered a performance-enhancing drug?
remember that ridiculous debacle over the “Yankees Suck!” t-shirts
That’s why I have one of
these. (Does anybody know if the “Sankees Yuck” or “Yuck the Fankees” ones cause a problem?)
Great moments in Mariner history: Ron Guidry swallows his chaw and pukes on the mound in the Kingdome
HEElarious. How did I miss that at the time? Do you know the date, or at least the year? Must’ve been those lost years in the 80s when I thought I was done with this frickin team….
If you want to enhance the performance of the mutating cells…
Oh and just so you know, tobacco is also banned by the NCAA. This certainly didn’t prevent a single member of my football team or coaching staff from dipping before, after, during, on the bus, in practice, in front of the NCAA rules committee or in front of NCAA drug testers.
A friend of mine was a big-time chewer in high school. He carried around empty Coke cans to use as spitoons. Once someone bet him $20 that he wouldn’t drink a can full of chew spittle. That someone lost the bet, and my friend miraculously didn’t violently retch after consuming a can-full of that toxic sludge.
I chewed for a brief period in my early 20s, because a roommate chewed and I wanted to try it. The buzz was so massive it made me dizzy and I quit after a few weeks. I guess pro ballplayers have built up quite a resistance to the nicotine’s effects. Maybe if they want a safe stimulant + oral fixation they could suck on espresso popsicles.
Sure, tobacco could be considered a PED, but since everyone in MLB is allowed to use it, at least in chew form, there is no competitive advantage. At least Guillen receives no advantage from chaw when facing a right-handed pitcher. The same goes for Ibanez facing lefties.
I have never been hassled while chewing in the stands a Safeco. I make sure to have a spitter and always throw it away myself. i had to clean up too many other peoples’ spitters when I worked at a movie theater; I won’t ask some poor grounds crew kid to do it for me.
# 54 — I’m pretty sure Guidry tossed five innings and his lunch in this 1978 game:
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/1978/B08200SEA1978.htm
Kind of an interesting box, actually. Goose Gossage relieved Gator in the 6th, and the M’s beat up on Gossage and Sparky Lyle. Jim Beattie pitched the 9th for NY.
Enrique Romo, “Senor Smoke”, got the win to go 10 and 4, not bad for a team that would lose 104 games.
according to the article in #19, it is harder to quit spit tobacco than smoking …
Re: Yankees Suck. Actually, the team quietly backed off that policy after the possibility of a legal challenge was raised.
Re: #60
Any topic that elicits mention of a member of the ‘79 Pirates gets a big thumbs up from me!
lol public health / clean air laws enforced at a stadium that sells garlic fries…
I have actually TALKED to ushers with a fatty chawski in my mouth and they seemed unfazed. I always have a spitter, it’s just common courtesy people!