Game 150, Mariners at Athletics
DMZ · September 18, 2007 at 6:05 pm · Filed Under Game Threads
Weaver v Gaudin. 7:05, FSN. Pretty boring M’s lineup. Pretty bad A’s lineup — check this out:
LF Stewart
1B Barton
RF Cust
DH Johnson
2B Ellis
SS Scutaro
3B Hannahan
C Suzuki
CF Davanon
That team’s hurting something awful. And yet the M’s are all but mathematically eliminated from the playoffs – do we really have to wait for them to be officially knocked out before they do any kind of reasonable playing time distribution?
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Why is Weaver starting tonight? Why aren’t the youngsters getting playing time every single day?
Good god.
coincidently– tonight’s pre-game text question on KOMO radio? ‘is it time to play the kids’
McLaren, on the FSN pregame show, was talking about Weaver pitching tonight and he said by playing the veterans rather than the kids you know what to expect and with the kids anything could happen. That is why Weaver is on the hill tonight, he is a vet. John Mc is hoping for the good Weaver to show up. But with the vets you know what you get!! Weaver sucks and we all know it!! Weaver should be on the bus with HoRam.
Play the kids?! I’ll take the proven, reliable output of veterans. Why, I reckon some of these kids’ll have negative numbers of RBI’s down the stretch if they get to play. Not to mention the upsetting disraction it would be to our vets…
Proving, again, that McLaren doesn’t really know anything about anything.
What are the prevailing odds that McLaren returns as manager next year?
Related question: who will the front office serve up to take the fall publicly for the august/september swoon?
I have to admit I find McLaren even more vexing than Hargrove. Grass is always greener…, sure, but the guy just persists being just flat out non-sensical so much of the time.
The annoying thing is that if this team had their big meltdown earlier they may have more willing to let go with young guys and put Jones in LF plus bumping HoRam to long relief and putting in RRS to get some starts. Aside from the fact this would have given youngsters that have a future with the team more work, it almost certainly would have also (unintentially) increased their odds of making the playoffs by bettering the team and maybe even have taught them a little something.
well, if they keep Mac, they’ll prob let some of the coaches go, if for no other reason than Mac didn’t have a chance to put his own staff in place.
Wow, have you ever seen the Mariners use footage from a brawl in the pregame package? The A’s just showed their Texas fight as proof that the team is still got spunk, even if they are playing out the string.
Talk about a difference of cultures…
hmm. and the M’s postgame thought the A’s should be jumped on, as they were out of it, and acting like that …
pregame Ray Fosse opined that Gaudin had lost his confidence and attributed it to his dismay at losing Kendall, and uncertainty of working with Suzuki…
Guillen’s wacky wild double play breakup was actually fair payback for that hbp.
We should sign Guillen just for those plays.
Guillen is ridiculous. I love it.
Guilen should be suspended for repeatedly doing that. Seriously. If I’m an opposing pitcher, I’m throwing at him every single time until he knocks it off.
I was just washing dishes so can someone fill me in? Did Guillen get hit with a pitch, then get kneed in the head on the next play? Was the trainer coming out due to the pitch or the knee?
Dave and Blow declare our playoff chances dead. Sweet!
timc,
Guillen got hit, then on a double-play turn he did one of his patented 5-feet-outside-the-basebath takeout slides and collided with Scutaro.
Wow. In all the years of USSM this is the first time I recall Dave advocating throwing at a batter.
What are the odds that Guillen gets benched for that tomorrow night? 0%?
Guillen’s slide was illegal. If the runner at first wasn’t thrown out, he should have been out on interference by Guillen. That was BS. Guillen didn’t even attempt to reach the bag. If I was Mac I would replace him with Jones under the pretense of injury, but in actuality to keep him from being hit again and haveing him explode and cause an incident. Beltre slides hard and fair. Guillen slides illegally. I’m an M’s fan, but that is unacceptable.
I was busy typing. How did Guillen make the error?
Guillen’s been pulling this crap all year. It’s dangerous to the opposing team’s shortstop and against the rules. He didn’t even go into a full slide this time, staying up enough to put his shoulder into Scutaro’s knees. You do that enough times, and eventually, you’re going to cause someone to land on their head.
It’s dirty baseball.
Thanks Teej. I guess it was just desserts.
#20 Guillen is a vet – you don’t bench vets.
so the M’s half of the inning fizzles, and you get Weaver looking likely to give back all he got.
anybody have the A’s broadcast? I’d love to know what Ray Fosse’s take is on someone sliding to take out a position player…
They just thought it was because he got HBP’d. They’re not aware that he does that every single time.
Give him his damn Gold Glove!
That’s just an amazing play. Beltre’s so awesome.
Seriously, it looks like Beltre threw a two-seamer around the baserunner to nail him on the other side of his body. Amazing throw.
#26, they definitely thought Guillen was out of the baseline and should have triggered an automatic double play.
They weren’t really that outraged about it because a) they got the DP anyway and b) they don’t seem to be too familiar with Guillen’s past dirty shenanigans.
Having said that, I would have thought there would be a modicum of Guillen-related vitriol, but I guess that’s reserved for the Angels only.
speaking of HBP’s escalating, Rizzs was just saying that Ron Washington made Padilla apologize to the team, specifically for making the bullpen pitch the rest of the game …
And to be fair, the HBP was not one of malice or intent. Guillen steps into the pitch and puts his arms and hands out over the plate. He gets hit. He isn’t trying to get it, but such things happen frequently to batters that do that.
And yes, Beltre is awesome.
If there is a baseball Hell, Guillen should have to face Padilla, and Padilla should then have to cover second with Guillen running from first.
#30– Bend it like Beltre?
seriously? we still have to bunt? ugh.
Great, the sac bunt takes the bat out of Ichiro’s hands. That is some high quality managin’, provided that Yubet didn’t do it on his own.
Whoops. Well, I guess Geren decided to pull a Mac
#30– Bend it like Beltre?
Looks like we’ve got our first 2008 Mariners commercial.
3 – “McLaren, on the FSN pregame show, was talking about Weaver pitching tonight and he said by playing the veterans rather than the kids you know what to expect and with the kids anything could happen.”
That statement is equal parts infuriating and depressing.
I remember, when I was younger, being in awe of people because of their positions… coach, manager, any kind of boss or CEO, whatever.
I just assumed that they must be smart, must know what they’re doing and have inside knowledge not available to me.
It’s when you really get out into the workforce that you realize a sad truth… they aren’t and they don’t. Not necessarily.
Now, older, I’ve seen remarkably stupid people in remarkably high positions.
It’s actually a pretty sad day in a person’s life when they have the sinking realization that your president, for example, is not the best and the brightest. It’s pretty hard to justify. In baseball it’s less horrifying, but still disappointing.
#40 — Weaver is the definition of “anything could happen.” He has gone from bum to ace to serviceable to ace to bum, with more bum than anything else.
P.S. to John in L.A. If it wasn’t clear, I was responding to your quote of Mac, not you.
Ibanez looks so hopeless when he strikes out.
The more I see these comments from MacLaren and watch his ineptness with managing a bench/bullpen has me wondering if there’s a reason that MacLaren spent all those years as a bench coach. Nice guy that gets along with the players and serves well in that role, but not seen as creative or decisive enough to get the nod for first chair. Until now with the M’s, of course.
Good thing Rene wears the helmet.
41 – Agreed.
Putting aside, of course, that even if we do “know what to expect” from vets, do we really want more of it right now?
I think these jokers actually think consistency itself is a virtue, without bothering to check if what you’re consistently getting is something you’d actually, you know, want.
Mac seems terrified of the unexpected. He’s said similar things more than once. He has some kind of irrational fear of the unknown.
Baek was activated. I’d rather see him starting than Weaver/HoRam.
Way to go re-animated corpse.
The wife and I are watching the A’s feed on MLB.tv and while I was out of the room, she swears that the A’s announcers mentioned that Bill “F” Bavasi re-signed Weaver for another year. And that afterwards said announcers mentioned what a horrible pitcher he is. Have you guys heard anything about this on the M’s side?
I hope and pray that she is lying. This would be worse than all of the times she “pretended” going into labor.
48 – They said nothing of the kind.
They talked about the signing of him
for this year, that’s it.
No way he gets re-signed. No way.
I’m reminded of something I read (on this site, I think) about the responsibilities of a bench coach. I’m paraphrasing here: “The bench coach’s job is to the keep the two or three players who hate the manager away from the guys who haven’t made up their minds.”
It seems to me that McLaren is more concerned with massaging the veteran players’ egos than with winning some baseball games.
boy, avert your gaze for a minute or 30 and look what happens …
I am late to the game and see that Raul got a grand salami I looked through the post, expecting to find a Rauuuuuul somewhere, but the only reference I could find was to him seeming so helpless at the plate. so I will belatedly add:
RAUIUUUUUUUUL!
Was somebody off baking rally cookies? The time for that is long past. Now we need cookies that cause veterans to miss planes so the kids can play.
I made meatloaf but I doubt it had much effect on anything.
This is a lifeless game. I’ve never been less excited to see a slam. I’m only happy the Mariners are winning.
It sounds as if there are about 60 or so people braving the chilly Oakland night to see this all but meaningless game.
Anyone want to offer the odds on Jeff Weaver getting another complete game?
49 – I didn’t think he’d have a chance either of getting resigned and I asked her three or four times if she was having fun with me (see previous post about faking labor).
Thank you, thank you, from the very bottom of my heart for calling my wife a liar. You have saved my marriage.
If Bavasi signs Weaver to another year – or even worse, a multi-year deal – I’m officially giving up my Ms fan card.
An earlier thread I read Dave Sims is on a one year contract. Is that the norm for a new announcer? Will he be back?
Oh, thank you Rick L, someone had to do that. Much obliged.
#44- FWIW, McLaren was asked to interview here after Lou left, and a finalist for both the Tampa and Dodgers’ openings
Not the best night for Broussard. I assume he sits against the lefty tomorrow.
#58– I think most broadcasters are on year-by year deals, until you get to the Skully/Neihaus/Brenneman/Miller level
Does this mean we can release Rizzs? Please say yes.
Skully? where did that come from?
64… got the better contract than Mulder, obviously
I think Jeff is on empty.
Is it just me or has no one talked about Buster Olney saying on Softy’s show today that If MAC isn’t brought back the hot rumor he’s hearing is that Tony LaRussa is up for the job. you can hear the audio of the interview at KJRAM.
http://www.kjram.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=softy.xml
those 60 fans in Oakland just woke up.
#67– I thought the hot rumor was that LaRussa was ticking people in St Louis off by courting every potential managerial opening, whether invited to or not
Whitey Herzog would be listening if the Ms called.
It sounds as if there are about 60 or so people braving the chilly Oakland night to see this all but meaningless game.
Did you see the Marlins managed to attract all of 400 fans to a game last week? Sure, it was against the Nationals, and the announced attendance 10,000 (heh), but how hard do you have to work to discourage so many people in a major market metroplex full of latin americans (and particularly cubans)?
hmm. poking around, I see that in Detroit Rizzs signed a 3-year deal and after the 1st season was given a year’s extension.
Of course, they fired him the next year.
More gasoline, anyone?
Why isn’t Putz warming up?
Dave is grousing on the radio about not knowing where Putz is.
what the heck!!!?!?!?! wheres JJ!?!?!?
I saw Putz in the dugout earlier in the game chatting with Rhodes. Seriously, what is the deal?
Even the Mariners announcers dont know why JJ isnt pitching?
Whaaa???
Ugly.
To be more specific, Dave was going on about how medical information about players is so tightly restricted, for privacy reasons or what-have-you. A plausible explanation is that J.J. had the flu or something and the trainers told McLaren he wouldn’t be available tonight. But we’ll see.
Sims and Blowers acted as if it was no big deal. They didn’t even mention JJ’s name in the bottom of the 9th. What did the radio side say?
Did JJ have “flu-like” symptoms? Wink, wink.
Apparently, JJ was unavailable last night as well. That was from Rizzs on the radio. I hope that he is ok.
Baker’s blog confirms that Putz wasn’t available last night either. Which makes sense, because even though 4-0 isn’t a save situation, managers often turn to a closer then, especially if he’s been as underused as J.J. lately. Still not sure what the underlying reason is, although supposedly it’s temporary and not a major concern.
So is it: he’s been drunk, hung over, come down with the clap, or some combination of all 3?
Hickey is speculating:
“… with closer J.J. Putz unavailable for a second day, Brandon Morrow pitched Seattle out of a two-out, two-on jam to end that inning. Putz, who wasn’t available in the series opener Monday, never got up in the eighth or ninth innings with a one-run lead, an indication that the closer may be hurt.”
‘tightness in the tricep’ sez Glasgow, and that Rick Griffin says it isn’t something to be concerned about.
oh, and the KOMO listeners voted to ‘play the kids’
Woo hoo! Don’t I feel playoff bound after tonight’s game!
For the love of God, please get to the mathematical elimination, so I don’t have to hear Dave N. pretend we’re really going anywhere. If not for me, then for the dignity of a 30-year employee.
“There was a point I never thought he had a chance for 100,” Mariners manager John McLaren said of Ibanez. “But he’s a quality player and even more of a quality person.”
I don’t have a problem with Ibanez, he did okay this year with sub par fielding. But Mac’s attitude is what kills me every time. He is a quality person, which must mean hie is a good player, even if he is not.
71: That’s just too friggin’ sad…even the D-Rays draw four or five thousand a game!
HOW LONG is MLB going to continue the corporate welfare IV to a team in a market which SO obviously could care less?! >:(
I agree, those teams need to move out of there. I used to live in Florida myself. No body seemed to give a crap about the Marlins unless they went to the world series or playoffs. Even when they had a high payroll (by their standerds, 60 mil), with allstars such as Delgado, Lo Duca, Lowell, Beckett, and etc, no body cared. Most people either just cared about football or the Yankees or Mets or Braves. Plus, who wants to sit in hot, muggy, humid weather, in a nasty, worn down, cruddy football stadium when there is chances it will rain/thunderstorm watching a last place team with a payroll lower than ARod’s annual salary? I wouldn’t. I believe it when i hear about the low attendence that the Marlins and D-Rays have.
Id say a profitable area would either be Portland or Vancouver. I mean it may mess up the division layouts and also take fans away from the Mariners, despite there being enough M’s fans around. I mean OSU won back to back state titles, I think Oregon has plenty of baseball fans. Would anyone agree that itd be good to bring another team up to the Pacific Northwest?
The fans in Florida are only returning the contempt the Marlins and Rays owners have directed towards them over the years. Florida wins a World Series — twice! — and blows up / sells off the team the following season. Way to encourage loyalty among your fans. Meanwhile the Rays had an owner who was so petty he demanded the players avoid a charity funraiser because it wasn’t held at Tropicana field. Both of them pocketed the revenue sharing money and turned a profit, even while gouging the fans on everything from tickets to parking. For several years the D’Rays were among the most profitable teams in baseball even as they refused to actually spend enough to field a competitive team, while Florida is now owned by the genius who ran the Expos into the ground (and out of Montreal).
Yeah, their stadiums suck. But they might have had better luck getting public funding for new facilities if they hadn’t repeatedly burned and abused the very public they expect to vote for that funding. Had they worked to build a loyal fanbase — including reaching out to the latino population the way Moreno is doing in LA and the way the Mets have been doing with Minaya — and shown any willingness to pay for part of it themselves (rather than just extorting the entire thing by threatening to move the team) they probably would already be playing in new stadiums, or at least be well on the way to getting them built.
Things might be turning around for the D’Rays under new ownership — they have a great nucleus of young talent — but it will take a long time to rebuild the bridges Naimoli burned. As for Florida, well, an ownerdectomy would also be the best and perhaps only cure. I don’t think any amount of beating with a cluestick will help a guy who found a reason to fire the NL Manager of the Year.
And no, I don’t think another team in the PNW is a good idea. Aside from the impact it would have on the M’s, I’m skeptical it would be viable. Portland is too smart to give out any public money for a stadium, and I can’t see any owners stepping up to pay for it themselves the way the Giants did in SF. Vancouver could probably find some deep pockets in Hong Kong (assuming baseball could live with another transpacific owner) but it’s the Canucks’ town: the city just doesn’t care about baseball enough (plus you have the Kingdome factor: who wants to go sit inside in BC Place in the summer months?)
92 (Fin): TOTALLY agree with you on this, and it really gets me riled…
I know it’s often considered “socially uncool” for any “true” Seattle sports fan to advocate anything which even remotely smacks of cool happening in the “dreaded” Rose City…however, to be fair, how could PDX possibly be any WORSE of a market for the Marlins than Miami is? I mean, c’mon, they’ve had 15 seasons (two of which resulted in WS championships, plus a couple of other decently played ones in which, to some degree, they were in contention) and numerous ownership changes to figure out that mess down there, and haven’t gotten it right yet! EVERY owner of that franchise (Huizenga, Henry, Loria) has proceeded to run it on a disastrous course seemingly straight into the ground; whenever they’ve assembled a solid core of players, they can’t (or WON’T) keep them together; despite the massive amount of capital flowing through that metroplex, they can’t seem to get a deal done for a new stadium; and the tactics of Loria and his lapdog Samson border on scandalous, to say the least (case in point: the Expos debacle from 1995-2004).
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing that franchise again placed in receivership by MLB and sold to a more ethical owmership group — maybe even one in Vancouver or Calgary, to make up for Loria’s theft of the Expos from Canada.
And here’s some more food-for-thought…isn’t it ironic how Selig has allowed the ‘Fish to flounder around (no pun intended) for 15 years down there when he: (a) pulled up stakes on the Pilots and left after ONE YEAR here in 1969; & (b) was all ready to pull the plug about six years ago on the Minnesota Twins — one of the founding franchises of the American League as the original Washington Senators — when, at the same time, there was never any such talk of contracting the Marlins — who have never had anywhere NEAR the success of Twinkies?!
BTW, this is what 400 fans at a Marlins game looks like.
95: Oh, man…I would’ve thought that was NOT for real if I hadn’t actually seen that picture…
I think the all-time official low gate for a MLB game was for an M’s-A’s matchup at the Oakland Mausoleum back in about ‘79 or so — when there were something like 600 in attendance.
By comparison, THAT would be an English Premier League crowd compared to the one in Miami the other day.
94 -
I think I should point out that moving an MLB franchise to Calgary or Vancouver would NOT make up for the loss of the Expos from Montreal.
(That is a bit like claiming that moving a franchise to Salt Lake City would make up for pulling one from Miami.)
However, do not be surprised if Canadian cities start getting attention again. MLB decisions are all driven by economics and Canada is set to go through a bit of a “rich” phase. The US currency is dropping like a stone. Toronto and Montreal got teams during the last economic cycle that saw Canada in a “rich” phase.
Keep starting wars and fleecing the public in favor of crony tax “cuts”, and it’ll be those “damn Blue Jays” that’ll be the envy of everyone else.
Anyone read the Larry Stone article about the possibility of LaRussa coming to Seattle w/ Walt Jocketty as a package deal? I know it is all rumors until someone is gone (ie. Bavasi and McLaren) but what do you all think about this option?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/larrystone/2003891347_stone19.html
The St. Louis article.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/08344915D1EF3D778625735B0012D27D?OpenDocument
I don’t know if I want LaRussa messing with Felix. That said, I don’t like Mac messing with him either.
I think there are better options than LaRussa, including the aforementioned NL Manager of the Year. With LaRussa we’d probably spend less time complaining about in-game decisions and make it all up complaining about abuse of young pitchers. And — I’m confused: what’s the M’s stance on drinking and driving? Carlos gets shipped out of town, Richie gets a pass?
I wouldn’t be surprised if all this LaRussa talk is just so much public positioning to get a better deal from the Cardinals, and has nothing at all to do with a desire to go anywhere else. I’m sure the folks here will have an entire thread devoted to Manager prospects, and another one for GMs, once the off-season arrives. But right now, it’s all just another sort of rosterbation. Managerbation?
Are we talking about Girardi? That’d be kinda cool. But I really doubt it considering management’s view on towing the line. Oh, gosh! I’m gonna go blind from too much managerbation!! =0
#100– it has been discussed here before–
FWIW, Guillen was stopped for driving at excessive speed across 520, blew over the limit when stopped, and was sentenced to 100 hours of community service, speaking requirements, fines and fees amounting to about $1,000. Sexson, after accelerating through an intersection in Vancouver was charged with negligent driving & fined after the officer involved consulted the Washington State Toxicology Lab about alcohol burn-off rates & determined he prob. wasn’t over the limit when stopped.
97 (North): Apologies on my part if my rant sounded like a generalization. It’s just that the thought of Loria with his hands on any professional sports franchise (or any business for that matter) simply makes my blood boil.
Maybe the Marlins should only be moved to Montreal. I can’t remember a time when even the Expos had ONLY 400 people show up for a game at Olympic Stadium.
104 – no offense taken
It would take a PR maven, deep pockets and an owner with some local (and French) street cred to reintroduce baseball to Montreal. They’d have to build their own stadium as well. Economically, it is doable, but rate of return would be lower than most uber-rich are interested in.
As such I think Montreal will remain one of the largest markets in U.S. and Canada without a team (outside of Brooklyn).
105: Just as Seattle has more hockey history than a lot of people would care to remember (the Metropolitans winning Lord Stanley’s Cup in 1916), Montreal has a richer history in baseball than probably a lot of folks realize — Jackie Robinson, for instance, playing for the (MTL) Royals in late ’40’s before the Dodgers called him up.
I agree…it probably would take a savvy and passionate ownership group to sell baseball again in MTL, and it may take a while.
I’d mentioned Calgary in my (ranting) post as a possibility, partly since I know that area is still growing and that I’d heard Alberta has a pretty favorable (business-friendly) tax structure. I wonder if CGY might be a legit contender for a future franchise?
Thanks for the support. I guess Portland is too small to build their own safeco field, per se, unless someone like Paul Allen buys the team and moves them up there.
I just don’t know about going back to Montreal. I just remember in ‘04, attendence being down to like 3,000 (actual official figures) per game, even their triple A team had a higher attendence. I would prefer Vancouver for sure, but again, they would need a retractable stadium too, because they couldn’t play in a indoor place during the summer.
Speaking of hockey, why doesn’t Seattle have an NHL team? I think they should, considering they did have a history there, and the Supersonics are leaving any day now. It just seems silly having teams in places like Dallas, North Carolina, Two teams in Florida (which franchises are much more stables than their baseball counterparts, but i could imagine finding a fanbase wouldn’t be easy), Arizona, 3 in California, and etc, but not one Seattle. Itd just make sense having a team here. Would Vancouver feel threatened at all?