Off-day fun
DMZ · September 24, 2007 at 7:33 am · Filed Under Mariners
Angels clinch the West.
Indians clinch the Central.
Boston’s only a game and a half up on the Yankees.
The M’s are one Yankee win or Mariner loss from being eliminated from the wild card. You’d think then they’d start to play the kids… for a couple of games, which… standard rant goes here.
Good times.
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They have to rest Adam Jones so he’s fresh for winter ball. Duh.
You’d think?
I’m sure John McLaren wants to give his veterans every possible chance to pull off his own little 1995. He believes in them. They have chemistry. Insert any other stupid cliche dumb managers come up with here.
I bet Guillen makes every start until he reaches 100 rbi.
Mac being Mac likely thinks it would be disrespectful to the other team to not play your ‘real’ guys. Even if mathematically eliminated.
Once they are officially out of it, and playing Cleveland (who has clinched) and Texas (waaaay out of it) maybe then it no longer becomes a matter of respect, and he can they play the kids.
And not play Weaver on Friday.
When I am going to the game.
For the last time this season.
Clearly, Adam Jones has more learning to do from the bench.
How good/bad is the winter ball level of pitching? Is it sort of a AAA level or is it somewhat better or worse?
Well, technically Cleveland still has the best record for which they can aim. Maybe Mac will use that as an excuse.
I’m going to be at the double-header and I’ll be drunk with a ‘Free Adam Jones’ sign. Thank you, M’s.
The M’s need to keep playing the veterans to continue the momentum for … uh … Spring Training.
Looking ahead to the off-season, I have a question. Is there any way to follow some kind of baseball, any kind of baseball, between the World Series and spring training? There’s the Arizona Fall League, they have a Web site I think. But then what? How do you track some of these winter leagues for box scores or player stats or whatever. I suspect it might be doable but would require subscribing but I’d appreciate any suggestions.
McLaren is outsmarting us all. He’s keeping Jones on the bench to hide him so that Bavasi doesn’t trade him to Atlanta for Horacio-2.
Standard rants for McLaren’s standard lineup.
We should send Sexson to winter ball, he is the one who needs to get better.
My nine year old is about to go crazy if Morse, Wlad, Jones and Clement don’t get to play.
I can only guess McLaren is getting some bad advice from upstairs.
No offense, but I don’t think you are going to find out much about these “kids” in one meaningless week of baseball. I think the Mariners have a general idea of what they want to do with this roster in the offseason anyways which is why you are seeing R-R Smith, Morrow, and Jones at the very least heading to winter ball. The only question is who will call the shots next season in the front office and on the field.
We should send Sexson to winter ball, he is the one who needs to get better.
We need him to heal up so we can trade him. After all, we need to move Sexson so we can sign Bonds…
11 – I wouldn’t be so angry at Mac if that were the case. Unfortunately i don’t think he would be smart enough to think up of that idea. Even if he were, that wouldn’t be the reason to keep Jones on the bench.
15 – I agree as much as the next guy that we need to dump sexson, and get maybe some marginal pitching in return. Hey, if Bavasi could do a good job to convince the other GM that Sexson had a fluke year and is ready to break out of it next season, then surely the M’s could get some half decent stuff in return. But NO BONDS! Please, we don’t need his roidiness, his cockiness, and his attitude. But hey, maybe Mariners would get some national media attention with Bonds on the team, but still, it isn’t worth it. Plus, it would give Mac (if he sticks around, which is a possibility) another reason to keep Jones on the bench. Id say no Bonds, stick with Raul as DH, and Jones in LF. The commentators make it sound Jones is a lock in LF next season, and signing Bonds would screw that all up. Itd either be Bonds DH/ Raul Lf/ Vidro 1b, or some sort of mix of that. Keep it the way it is
And to look on the bright side of Arizona Fall League, Jones will probably pound the ball, giving him lots of confidence and practice up till spring training, and winter ball should give RRS and Morrow some endurance again to possibly be starters next season. Id like to see maybe a Felix/RRS/Morrow big three. That may be a stretch, and probably neither of the guys will be ready to be starters off the bat, but its better than what the Mariners had starting this season. Thats for sure. But who would take their spots in the bullpen?
And the other young guys will either prove to be solid backups just incase one of the vets go down, or testing them will give numbers to back them up as good trade bait at the end of the season.
6. Lots of rookie ballers and A ballers… though winter leaguers often experiment with different approaches, new pitches, so… yeah.
I don’t have a burning need to find out anything about them, I just want to see them.
AJ is going to Venezuela, too.
I still can’t believe they’re going to have Adam Jones play winter ball. It’s infuriating, because it risks injury for no reason.
What could he possibly still have to prove?
What? No official USSM comment on the Steve Kelly article in the Sunday paper where he opines that Mac should be given “another chance” to manage the club next season.
Maybe Freddy G. and Carlos G. will take AJ under their wings, show him all the Venezuelan night spots, keep him from getting bored with all that baseball stuff…
Anyone who thinks we are going to trade Sexson for anything of value is uniquely qualified to become a decision maker for the Seattle Mariners.
As msb says, I want to see the kids play because I want to see the kids play. It has nothing to do with gaining additional knowledge — if I wanted that, I would’ve gone to Tacoma more often. No, if I’m going to watch the last meaningless week of baseball at all, I’m going to watch it to see something new. In fact I stopped watching games after White was brought in to give the game away that day in Cleveland (the radio-only makeup game with AJ’s first HR) and haven’t watched a broadcast since (though I’ve had the radio on from time to time). I’m actually planning to watch some of the remaining games precisely because I may see Balentien crank one over the left field wall in a major league park, or see Clement throw out a major league runner, or see Morse do… uh, something. (Something major league, preferably).
My nine year old is about to go crazy if Morse, Wlad, Jones and Clement don’t get to play
Geez, dude, you got your kid hooked on the M’s — and, worse, on their prospects, knowing the way the team treats (and trades) them? Dude. That’s like… child abuse.
10: I keep wondering if there’s a professional league in Australia yet that has enough of a following where you could track them. After all, it is officially now springtime Down Under.
on the same day John Mcgrath was saying, ‘go get LaRussa!’
23. Morse has taken steroids, that’s pretty major league.
Of course he’s about the only guy to get busted who ‘fessed up after the fact and didn’t concoct some “There’s got to be a flaw in the system” whine, a la Ryan Franklin. That suggests a lack of major league credibility.
You have to blame the over-the-counter protein shakes, dude.
last winter mlb.com broadcast (for free) some of the the Hawaiian winter league games…
http://www.hawaiiwinterbaseball.com/
Good grief, such a paucity of intelligence in the local sports press. Could anyone here THINK for a second?
I remember before they hired Bob Melvin to replace Lou, the local gobshites on KJR were agitating for Dusty Baker because of his “proven success” in San Francisco. Nobody pondered for a second if Baker’s success had much to do with Bonds and Kent, it was just discounted. He manages a winning team, ergo he’s a winning manager.
hey! if we need something to watch on the off-day, leave us not forget that tonight we can see Dave’s cousin in her debut:
“Mon Sept 24 8pm — Don’t miss the return of Dancing with the Stars in a special three night extravanga, with the women squaring off on Monday … “
23. Morse has taken steroids, that’s pretty major league.
Colm, I didn’t want to go there. So let’s not, m-kay?
the local gobshites on KJR
Oh, the glories of British slang! That’s frickin priceless. I want that on a t-shirt: KJR: Your Source of Local Gobshites! or KJR: Now with 100% Local Gobshite! or KJR: All Local Gobshites, All The TIme
hey! if we need something to watch on the off-day, leave us not forget that tonight we can see Dave’s cousin in her debut:
Oh, of course! Nice them to schedule it into an off-day for the M’s. A question for all the married guys out there: which is more pathetic / more likely to have you sleeping on the couch? Agreeing to join your wife in watching “Dancing with the Stars” this one night only because it features a hot model, or because it features the cousin of that guy who writes on that baseball fan blog you spend so much time reading on the computer? (”No, honey, I’m just checking her out because she’s his cousin; I had no idea she was a model!”)
(funny freudian[?] slip: when I first wrote that, I spelled “wife” as “wide”).
We need him to heal up so we can trade him. After all, we need to move Sexson so we can sign Bonds…
Good grief, I hope you are being facetious. The last thing this team needs is an aging, declining hitter who can’t play the field…
ok. a new entry for the Weird Baseball Injuries book: Milton Bradley’s ACL.
OK, I will bite, who is Dave’s cousin?
here
The last thing this team needs is an aging, declining hitter who can’t play the field…
I agree with your general point, but calling Bonds “declining” is maybe a bit misleading. Yes, he’s not as good as he was three years ago, but he’s still an awesome hitter (highest EqA in the majors this year, second-highest OPS+). A declining Barry Bonds is still a more valuable hitter than anyone on the Mariners except perhaps Ichiro. He’s still really good.
Now we already have too many lugs who can’t move in the field, so I’m not advocating that we sign him, but I just wanted to point out that he’s still pretty damn valuable as a DH.
But the main thing that makes him awesome, his plate discipline, is not something the M’s value anyway, so it’s all kind of a moot point, I guess.
A question for all the married guys out there: which is more pathetic / more likely to have you sleeping on the couch?
There is no correct answer to this question because either scenario you present results in having to watch Dancing With The Stars.
20- Because commenting on the inane monosyllabic ramblings of Kelley is just too easy?
Yeah. MUCH more fun to pick on him if he showed up here in person…
(And I do think it a tad amusing that msb pointed out the upcoming appearance of Dave’s illustrious cousin…..).
joser – have to pull you up there. Gobshite is (like me) definitely Irish in origin. The Anglos have only taken to using it widely since Father Ted.
#39– interesting discussion, here
But the main thing that makes him awesome, his plate discipline
That, or the flaxseed oil.
(Warning- I’m going to discuss the S word a bit. I won’t take it personally if I get the post BALEETED over this, but I can’t figure out any other way to say this).
That’s one of my main problems signing him; in an organization that has well-documented problems with keeping guys off the juice, you basically are saying to everyone in your system “it’s one set of rules for you folks, another for the superstars” if you sign Bonds to a FA deal (unless you actually believe Barry’s lame excuse about the cream and the clear). The other is that the issues involved make it a freak show and potential clubhouse distraction at this point- and while he might be a great hitter (but at some point, he’s going to fall down- let’s not buy his .220/.340/.440 year for $10 million…), he sure doesn’t help teams win by himself, as SF has demonstrated the last couple of years.
There are times when I’m willing to overlook the “intangibles” for “jeez, this guy is just too good”. This isn’t one of those times. Not on a team that has too many DHs who shouldn’t play the field already- adding another one who, while a great hitter, comes with entire cargo trains of baggage? No sale.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say NOBODY signs him, and that Bonds gets run out of the league like Canseco was, now that he owns the HR record and the crowds have no reason to do anything but boo him. Canseco at 36 hit .258 /.366/.477, quite productive numbers, even though he missed time his last year… and got nothing in future employment, even though he was a year or two away from 500 HRs and probably a very passable DH.
I’m going to ignore the Large Elephant in the corner.
Another question– if he goes to a new team, is he willing to forgo his special privileges?
32- I agree. The playoff chances for the Padres must have just dropped by 50%. Manager causing a career risking injury. Your LF getting tossed after hitting a single. Also after he stepped on your CF and allowed a inside the park HR. That was GREAT!
I’m going to ignore the Large Elephant in the corner.
That elephant used to be a normal sized elephant, you know, until…ah, never mind.
I think if Bonds goes to another team, he’ll have to act more like a “normal” player – he won’t be starting over, but I don’t think any team thinks he’ll be able to contribute at a high enough level that all that other stuff can be justified by saying “it’s Barry Bonds” like it may have been 10 years ago.
Love him or hate him, Barry Bonds is going to be a very viable DH option for some AL team this winter, and at some point he’ll realize he’s not going to get the number he wants and settle for something well below what his “market value” based solely on his numbers would be.
If the Mariners can dump Sexson and figure out a strategy to use Bonds that doesn’t involve Adam Jones rotting on the bench or in AAA for another year, I’m on board with acquiring him, baggage or not. Bonds is the sort of hitter that Safeco was constructed to help the most (although it was a different lefty power hitter that they had in mind).
The “he sure didn’t help SF win games” argument is a little specious because they didn’t surround him with any real talent. Their big free agent splash of the last few years was picking up Barry Zito for far, far too much money.
Without Bonds, the Giants would have been in Pirates/Marlins territory the last few years.
I’m not going to delve into the S-word too much myself either, but I will say that I feel that Barry Bonds has been singled out for reasons that have nothing to do with his level of guilt, and the problem that baseball has is far, far larger in scope than just him.
So I don’t think it should be a factor in deciding whether you can pick up a hitter who can substantially help your team.
Getting Bonds would be the last straw for me with this FO, but not just for the obvious reasons (steroids, inability to play in the field and general obnoxiousness). This team needs to do at least 2 things: (1) use its young players, and (2) improve its starting pitching staff (a lot). Signing Bonds would be a step in precisely the opposite direction: once again an aging, unhealthy veteran past his prime would be prioritized over the younger players, and the FO would be spending money that would then not be available for upgrading the pitching staff. Such a move would be a continuation of all the FO’s lousy instincts that we here at USSM spend a lot of time railing against. Incidentally, I really liked the suggestion that we raid the Devil Rays’ young, talented and cheap pitching staff, but that would require creativity, trusting youngsters, and taking some risks that probably wouldn’t play well in the media, so I highly doubt it will happen.
Perhaps Mac is resting Adam Jones so that he has the energy to play Halo 3 tonight in Bellevue?
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/seahawks/archives/2007/09/21/halo_3_with_sli/
Perhaps Mac is resting Adam Jones so that he has the energy to play Halo 3 tonight in Bellevue?
Maybe they’ll have a wooden bench that Adam Jones can sit on while playing Halo 3. That way he’ll be having fun, connecting with fans and, as Mac says, “refining his game” on said bench.
I think some are getting ahead of themselves here. Adam Jones needs to sit in the dugout and see how the veterans approach Halo 3 before he can expect to excel at that game himself.
wonder how gritty Willie’s Halo Avatar is…
I really wonder if Ichiro would be happy with the idea of Bonds on the M’s.
He’d be happier with Kosuke Fukudome here.
#49 – *lmao*
49 – Clearly your correct. Why he will be playing the game in such a high leverage situation instead of, say, Ibanez is beyond me.
Barry Bonds is going to be a very viable DH option for some AL team this winter
… that doesn’t mind hosting his traveling show of trainers/hangers-on and having different superstar rules for Barry and the other 24 guys on the team.
I know we mock the concept of team chemistry here an awful lot, but honestly? This is the one case where I’m fine drawing limits, and going “never, not even if he played for free and hit 80 home runs”.
The “he sure didn’t help SF win games” argument is a little specious because they didn’t surround him with any real talent.
Sure, but my argument is that he isn’t a magical panacea that turns your franchise into a winner at this point in his career, not that he isn’t still a good player within his limitation (should never play the field, decent injury risk, decent collapse risk).
I’m not going to delve into the S-word too much myself either, but I will say that I feel that Barry Bonds has been singled out for reasons that have nothing to do with his level of guilt, and the problem that baseball has is far, far larger in scope than just him.
Really? Have you seen Mark McGwire or Raffy Palmeiro being promoted/hyped in baseball lately? Sammy Sosa’s getting some love, maybe, but he wasn’t a BALCO target like some others were. I think Bonds is deservedly getting derision from large segments of the fans and baseball community, and it makes perfect sense to consider that as part of the baggage.
The Mariners are going to have enough problems as it stands. Adding a player who you’d have to spend time and energy making cuddly so that he doesn’t get ferociously booed on Opening Day? Not worth it to me as a fan, and I have no problem agreeing with a GM who makes the same decision. Dick Allen strikes me as very similar to Barry Bonds- great player, complete asshole. He eventually played his way off of teams and out of baseball because of that. Same with Canseco. I don’t think GMs who decide not to give limited MLB jobs to talented assholes are automatically making bad decisions.
you know how Rizzsy can get over Willie B?
Dave Sims is so that over Vince Young.
Also keep in mind Bonds isn’t out of the woods yet in terms of the law and MLB. Whatever team takes a chance on him next season is taking a chance not just with his health and baggage but taking the chance he might not be available to play at all because he’s been banned by baseball or appearing in court.
Vince Young? He’s what, a shortstop for the Rangers or something?
which reminds me, the A’s extended Ellis (and Geren) today
Oh, and as an add-on to my post:
The other way to look at this is that of the 3 components of baseball performance (offense, defense, pitching), the Mariners are above average offensively, slightly below average pitching (which really translates to good bullpen, not so good starting pitching in the aggregate), and terrile defense (28th in MLB, only ahead of the two Florida teams).
Adding another terrible defensive player to go along with Sexson, Ibanez and Vidro does absolutely nothing to fix the current team weaknesses, and in fact INCREASES one of them (in that now we have a fourth veteran on the roster who really is nothing more than a DH), and removes financial resources that could be helpful in fixing them (paying Bonds as opposed to being willing to eat more of Sexson’s salary in a trade, for instance).
The team (and whoever is the GM+advisors) is already going to have enough problems as it is getting Sexson off the roster without taking the wrong players back, enhancing the pitching, and minimizing the problems Ibanez and Vidro cause the team in not being capable defenders. I don’t want to add “having to spin Barry Bonds as a warm and cuddly Mariner” to the list of problems to fix this offseason.
That’d be a fine point, I think, if you want to look at it in a vacuum.
But there simply aren’t going to be any established veteran pitchers out there this offseason that would help the team; and I think that Bonds could add a lot of offensive value for a relatively limited cost. You have to look at what is going to reasonably be available, as well as what your needs are.
DFA Vidro and Sexson (or trade them for a bag of baseballs each), move Ibanez to 1B (he can’t be any more of a disaster there than he is in LF at this point), put Bonds at DH.
Bonds having baggage is why you could probably get him cheap. If he’s still going to insist he’s a $15 million plus per year player, then you walk away.
But there simply aren’t going to be any established veteran pitchers out there this offseason that would help the team
Not in the FA market, but you don’t need free agents to improve pitching. Salary flexibility would be awfully nice, but you don’t have it if you spend it on Bonds.
DFA Vidro and Sexson (or trade them for a bag of baseballs each), move Ibanez to 1B (he can’t be any more of a disaster there than he is in LF at this point), put Bonds at DH.
So, you’re taking salary to 120 million, then? Are you resigning Guillen? Or are you dumping him for Bonds+Wlad?
Also, I’m not convinced that Raul won’t be as bad at 1B as Sexson, and Sexson is a big part of why the defense sucked this year. Raul’s pretty much immobile in the field. I’m not convinced moving him to 1B improves our defense. I actually think he should DH (and play less against LHP).
Vidro, actually, is kind of OK as a backup, every so often 1B. I know it’s heresy, but he’s a useful player as a bench player (if sort of overpaid).
Oh, and you screwed Broussard out of a lineup spot too, again- who probably IS an acceptable defensive alternative. (I like the idea of Broussard/Vidro as next year’s 1B platoon).
Bonds having baggage is why you could probably get him cheap.
Consider Eric Byrnes is getting $10 million next year- why is Bonds going to want less than that? The headaches he brings are only worth a 5 million discount.
And again- the Mariners biggest problem is too many players who suck on defense. Adding ANOTHER one does not solve this problem. I think you can fix those defensive problems for less than 10 million and taking on a potential headache, and improve the team just as much as by adding Bonds’ bat, without needing to DFA useful players like Vidro.