That’s it for contention
I come not to praise the M’s, but to bury them. It’s over, officially now to confirm what everyone knew a long time ago. It was a good run for a while and then miserable to watch.
McLaren said he wasn’t going to play the kids until they were eliminated, and now that they’re eliminated, he’s said he’s not going to play the kids. Look, I don’t know – as much as anyone else, I’ll say not to listen to what a manager says but watch what they do, but the sheer size of the inconsistency in thought, guiding principles, and execution makes me want to tear my hair out and scream. At this point, you have to think he’s trying to compile as good a W-L record as he can for his resume and “keep me around next year” negotiations. Whatever. He stinks as a manager, and there’ll be plenty of time to hash that this off-season.
Many of our readers have said that if we’d been offered the team’s final record at the start of the season, almost all of us would have jumped at the chance, and — like last year — it was the glimpse at contention and the way that was wasted that hurts. That’s true in some sense, and certainly if they’d ground out a .525 season by winning consistently but lagging behind the Angels, our frustration with their shortcomings would show as disappointment and not resignation at another wasted chance and simmering rage over the institutional shortcomings that look like they’re going to continue to hamper the team’s ability to ever build a serious contender.
Speaking of which: play the kids already, would you?
Because the Mariners have been so painful to watch, I’ve been thinking of what would be wonderful to see. A team built with the strengths and weaknesses of Safeco in mind. An actual philosophy of baseball for the organization that is more complex than “run out the same team and if you need help, get a vet.” A manager that understood pitcher management. A manager that understood bench management. Management that could continue to bring up the youngsters and integrate them into the team, while using the best that vets had to offer. That would include taking a look at the kids in September (or July if the team was in a slump).
But I have a feeling I’ll have to write a novel set in an alternate universe to see any of that stuff in the near future.
Mike Mussina, a possible HOF pitcher, is struggling as the Yankee’s try to make the playoffs. A veteran to the rescue? No, the Yankees plug Ian Kennedy, recently from AA ball, into the rotation. Kennedy goes 2-1 with a 1.89 ERA.
Clay Buchholz throws a no-hitter in his second start of his major league career for the first-place Red Sox. In 4 starts for the Sox, Buchholz is 3-1 with a 1.59 ERA.
The Indians call up (former Mariner minor leaguer) Asrubal Cabrera and bench starting second baseman Josh Barfield, who is having a poor season. Since being inserted into the lineup, Cabrera is hitting .289 with 14 extra base hits and 20 RBI’s in 189 AB’s.
Boston holds off the surging Yankees to win the East despite losing Manny Ramirez for a month, thanks in large part to rookie Jacoby Ellsbury, who has hit .367 and stolen 9 bases since his callup.
Adam Jones has ridden the bench for 37 of the 50 games the M’s have played since he was called up on August 3rd.
Derek: Completely agree with your post, and share the frustration of so many others in the incompetence of both the front office and the manager.
I look south at Oakland, and what Billy Beane has been doing, and I think they are on the right path to rebuild and contend next year.
I noted that Yormando Bazardo pitched 7 seven shut out innings for Detroit yesterday against Minnesota. Wasn’t Bazardo an M at some point? If I am correct who, if anyone, did the M’s get in return for letting this guy go? Isn’t he the kind of guy the M’s would want to have on their team….some one who can actually pitch 7 innings….and does not cost the kings ransom?
42
Yeah, but as the saying goes…it takes him two hours to watch it
51
Ellsbury has hit 24 of the 27 games he’s had at least one at bat. To think, he wasn’t even on the Oregon State teams that won back to back championships.
The Tigers today made a trade with the Seattle Mariners for right handed pitcher Yorman Bazardo. In exchange the Tigers have sent the Mariners outfielder Jeff Frazier.
#46. The key word in all those quotes is obviously (to us anyway) “best”. Not “veteran”.
Somehow the Mariners got the message all screwed up.
On Sept 1, the M’s called up Morse, Jimerson, and Johnson from the minors. Since that date, the three players have combined for 6 AB’s. PS…they are a combined 5-6.
On Sept 4, the M’s called up Green, Reed, Clement, and Balentien. Since that date, the four players have a combined 22 AB’s (Reed has 12 of them, probably because he is the “Mariner veteran” of the group.
#55– FWIW, in the Mariners & Jays quotes, both were in the context of not playing their call-ups
I think McLaren’s inner logic is that the veterans are more likely to win, and 88 wins looks a lot better than 84. Of course, if the team loses most the remaining games and ends up with 84 wins, it then looks a lot worse than if he played the young guys the rest of the way.
the quotes go on and on:
“I owe it to baseball and the Phillies, Marlins and Nationals to put my best lineup out there,” Baker said. Everybody says, Play the kids.’ I got seven games against Houston. Against them, I’ve got to play my best team. You can have an impact on who goes.”
53 – Yorman Bazardo went to detroit this past off-season in exchange for the immortal Jeff Frazier.
I think McLaren’s inner logic is that the veterans are more likely to win, and 88 wins looks a lot better than 84.
Sure, McLaren is just trying to win. It’s not like he’s signed for next year, so organizational development isn’t a high priority. He’s trying to get the record strong enough that he can say on his resume that he kept the team in contention until the bitter end rather than managing a team that collapsed down the stretch.
If Bavasi wants the kids to play, he needs to give the order from up above that the kids need to play. Most managers tend to want to do whatever it takes to win right this second — Bavasi’s job is to position the team for next year and beyond.
#48 — yes, it was the best of blogs, it was the worst of blogs….
Maybe Mclaren’s idea is playing Cleveland as if these were the actual games cancelled by the weather at the beginning of the year. You know, “these are the guys we would have played…”
Also, have we ever heard any confirmation/denial to the rumor of Bavasi getting an extension?
I agree with McLaren on the idea of play your best lineup. Now, he hasn’t done that on a regular basis so it is hard to tell. Jones ok, Jimerson pinch run ok, Reed/Green anything no. McLaren can’t just throw whoever in the lineup against Cleveland. He is just going to throw out that sub-par lineup of regulars though.
Sometime I think the Mariners are a women just sucking the life out of me and making me miserable. But no matter how much I go to the bars and chase tail they will never go away.
So msb is making a good case that this “owe it to baseball/contending teams/the team you’re facing/the little fairies that live in Selig’s ear hair” sentiment to play veterans when you’re no longer contending is strong and widely-held among managers. Of course, belief in witches was once strong and widely-held too. Heck, a lot of major-league managers used to think they owed it to baseball not to play black players, either. Ignorance is ugly no matter how ubiquitous it might be.
If McLaren owes anything to anybody, where is the debt to the fans in all of this? I know I’d be far more interested in watching games and buying from advertisers and maybe visiting the park if there were some fresh faces to give me hope for years beyond this alread-dead one. Heck, I might be tempted to buy a Wlad shirt (of course they’d first have to make them). In any case, what McLaren owes — to everybody — is to put the best team on the field. And, as so many have spent so much time pointing out, the best players at some of those positions are not the veterans.
Also, have we ever heard any confirmation/denial to the rumor of Bavasi getting an extension?
I can’t be bothered to find the post but several people have noted he operates on a rolling contract, and that continues. In that respect his status is no more secure (or insecure) than it was earlier in the season.
62 – good point about Bavasi needing to give some guidance. I think we’d do as well or better with the callups in the lineup, but McLaren is stuck in his ways. But if he played the kids and we happened to lose, say, five out of six, he could use that as an excuse. If we lose two or three of the remaining Cleveland games playing our typical lineup, it makes our collapse look even worse. But McLaren doesn’t like to mess with the M’s second-place chemistry.
48 – the hazards of not having a “Preview Comment” button.
Yeah, and “clutch hitting” is still a common concept, and so is the notion that Derek Jeter is a fabulous fielder.
McLaren owes it to HIS TEAM first, THEN baseball. And, at this point, I think the bigger benefit is to give some rookies a taste of major league competition and to show them what they need to learn and work on.
Most of the vets are banged up anyway. Do everyone a favor and run some new faces out there.
Yes, if I was interviewing Mac, and he spit out the usual “we owe it to the league to play our veterans”, I’d ask,
“So, Mac, how has that been working out for you lately?”
If the goal is to put the best team possible on the field, I’d have to wonder why the M’s weren’t doing that all year?
Regarding firing McLaren because of incompetence and his refusal to experiment with new players even after the prospects for a playoff spot are officially defunct:
As long as Lincoln & Armstrong are still intact, “new boss same as the old boss.”
Unless one of their superiors forces them to hire the LaRussa/Jocketty/Duncan Cerberus. Wouldn’t bet the house on that.
Well, that would be Chris Larson.
And that won’t happen unless Microsoft’s stock prices get A LOT better…..
OK. Everybody…buy a Zune.
I thought we were hoping Chris would pressure them into Antonetti?
Two Zunes, then.
71: I agree 100% on the Howie & Chuck “old boss, new boss” theory. Those two tried to get everybody to believe that the collapse of ’04 — which happened, of course, due to a combination of factors — was mostly due to mis-management by BoMel and (by extension) Price…yet those two are doing a pretty good job these days down in Arizona, aren’t they?
Hmmm…wouldn’t have anything to do with a front office which actually CARES about building for the future now, would it?
Does anyone think 26 has a practical suggestion about a petition? I send e-mails to Ms fancare all the time, but that’s more just so I can vent as I know they don’t accomplish anything. But if we started bombarding Nintendo with e-mails, petitions, snail mails, free Adam Jones posters, whatever? BTW 35 that made my day.
I recall some time ago that Dave said good clubs find a place for a future star to play no matter what.. Frustrating isnt it?
Kind of late but I think this sums up the season quite well:
“I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let’s face it.”