Cleveland’s drawn quite well when they’re winning. In 2001 they were 4th in attendance. They drew over two million this year following an off season.

The A’s have new owners and are set to move into a swanky new stadium.

And I REALLY don’t understand the Yankees being up there, more bad expensive moves than all the rest put together, her they are with NO future pen and onlyu a couple of promising young starters. How anyone could spend what they do and still trail LAA, the SOX and Cleveland….glad it is not my money.

You forgot Brendan Harris. You whiffed pretty big on Harris too. Tampa Bay found its starting 1B (who will get MVP votes), starting SS, and closer off the scrap heap, so clearly the Rays organization does not understand the concept of freely available talent.

Reyes would have been a win had they been able to get rid of him at the trade deadline

Um, no again. The team had a cheap $1 million option on Reyes, so he was not an impending free agent. In a market where middle relievers get 3+ years at $4+ million (hello Danyz Baez, Justin Speier, Jamie Walker, etc.), Reyes at 1/$1 million is a steal. And they can always trade him at the next deadline.

The funny thing is you complain that Tampa Bay has not brought in free agents or tried to win in the present, but then when they bring back a contributing veteran like Reyes on the cheap, you complain that they are stupid for doing so.

Sorry for using a simple, reliable metric that accurately represents a pitchers -actual- (rather than theoretical) performance.

That screams for a haiku:

trolls are the result
when penis size frustrates id
don’t let id rule you

They’ve used their first-rounders wisely (Cain, Lowry, Lincecum), and they’ve found diamonds in the rough (Coutlangus was an outfielder; Accardo was undrafted; Sanchez was a 43rd-rounder). The current braintrust might be as good at scouting and developing pitching as any in the game.

Every other aspect of the organization is so wretched that it wholly compromises their success in drafting pitchers, true. But four “F”s and an “A” still equals a “D-”. There has to be some credit given to their success with finding arms.

Well, actually, not so much, since it’s pretty clear ERA has huge dependencies on things like team defense… which, again, is the point concerning Tampa Bay and Dave’s post.

But you go on ignoring the point. Tampa sux LOL.

Also, you could note the 60’s A’s, 80’s Pirates or other examples. Franchises don’t stay downtrodden very long when they accumulate talent, and Tampa’s accumulated a lot of it.

Uh, I whiffed on Pena. Reyes would have been a win had they been able to get rid of him at the trade deadline (why a win-later team wants to keep a middle reliever on the wrong side of 35 is beyond me; i’ll assume they didn’t get any realistic offers).

Sorry for using a simple, reliable metric that accurately represents a pitchers -actual- (rather than theoretical) performance.

One might also note that the Mariners of the 1980’s turned into the Mariners of the 1990’s… which is sort of our point.

Well, if not resigning three sure-fire Hall of Famers and one absolute miracle playoff-series victory (after a miracle run to the playoffs that occurred when both Griffey and Johnson missed substantial time and Rodriguez was yet to establish himself) is the measure of an ‘A’ franchise, then yes, it is possible that Tampa Bay might duplicate that success. But even that’s being generous.

Um, no. The Rays won this year’s “free talent” award with Carlos Pena, Brendan Harris, and Al Reyes.

putting stock in guys with shaky or non-existant track records

You mean guys like Carlos Pena and Brendan Harris?

One might also note that the Mariners of the 1980’s turned into the Mariners of the 1990’s… which is sort of our point.