Jose Guillen to get suspended for steroid, HGH purchases
Wow. From ESPN:
The Major League Baseball Players Association is negotiating with MLB officials on a possible 10- to 15-day suspension for outfielder Jose Guillen for his reported involvement in the purchase of steroids and human growth hormone, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney on Wednesday.
If that’s right, you have to wonder how much that affected the Guillen extension talks this year – we know they were all but signed for some time, certainly until the Byrnes contract. Did it play a part in their decision to let Guillen walk?
BTW, I don’t know if this is true:
Seattle declined its $9 million option and Guillen turned down a $5 million player option, receiving a $500,000 buyout.
If I remember, the $9m option was mutual: both the team and Guillen would have had to accept it, and then if the team turned it down, Guillen had an option to extend for one year at $5m, and if he turned that down, he couldn’t get the buyout.
But when I try to look up the details, I’m just finding a lot of conflicting information.
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Oh man, how will those poor Royals win the world series now?! All hope is lost.
So I wonder which motivated the M’s more: their pathological need to appear “family friendly” or their pathological need to stay on Selig’s good side?
I love how they’re not even thinking about trying for 50 games.
3: From what I understand, Guillen came forward, so the Player’s Association is negotiating for a reduced sentence.
Since becoming a free agent, his info has been taken down from Cot’s, but here’s what it said before:
07: $4M, 08:$ 9M club option ($0.5M buyout)
– if club exercises 2008 option, Guillen may void & forfeit buyout
– if club does not exercise 2008 option, Guillen may exercise 2008 option for $5M, and club may void & pay buyout
So it’s not really clear, but it appears that Guillen shouldn’t have gotten the half-million because he never exercised his part of the option. It’s the whole “mutual breakup” thing, and we may be wrong in assuming that Guillen got the half-million.
Then again, Guillen told a reporter, “They just gave me a half-million for no reason,” so I have no idea.
MLB is cleverly skirting the non-analytic positive by negotiating a lesser suspension than an analytic positive would create.
But, I don’t see how baseball has any leverage, here. The MLBPA doesn’t need to give in on this one.
Cot’s has a free agent page listed by position. However, Guillen’s contract has been moved to the Royals page.
10-15 days? Why bother? Several questions I have: 1)did the M’s know there was going to be punishment? 2)did the Royals? 3)did the M’s let him go to kiss Selig’s a**? 4)if the M’s knew but the Royals didn’t how many conspiracy theories can we come up with?
What if the 500k was an internal accounting error?? Someone misunderstood their own contract and cut him a check? I’d have Guillen back for $5M, HGH or no HGH. Maybe the M’s felt differently.
i still wish the Ms would have re-signed him…raul could have played the first two weeks in right, then shifted to DH when Guillen came back…although they were probably anticipating too much negative publicity and a much longer suspension…
Thanks, Jack, I swear I checked last week and couldn’t find anything, but you’re right, it’s all there. Still not crystal-clear, though.
I can’t believe it’s only a PR thing. Mike Morse is still on the team. Ryan Franklin continued to play.
Evan, the Mitchell Report has not come out yet.
Gentlemen…
Yes the option was mutual, but not equal.
The M’s had the option of extending the $9 mil extension to Guillen, OR pay Guillen the $500K. Guillen had already said publicly that he would not accept this offer, if the M’s offered it to him. Still, the M’s did offer the $9 mil contract, which means the M’s gave Guillen the $500K.
Guillen did have the option of accpting the $5mil for one year contract or take the $500K and look for a new team.
I hope that helps explain what happened.
Yeah, that’s what the above CoT post said, except it noted that Guillen could turn down a team exercise of the option for next year. Except…
Still, the M’s did offer the $9 mil contract, which means the M’s gave Guillen the $500K.
I think you mean that they did not offer that.
We’re doomed. Please, Jim Street, no more insights into the workings of McLaren’s mind. My teeth are already worn down to little nubs from two months of watching him manage.
Evan, the Mitchell Report has not come out yet.
I’m well aware of that. I don’t think the MLBPA should have to give in based on anything it says, either.
Cheetah has it right. The M’s did not accept the $9 Million option, thus obligating themselves to pay the $500 K buy-out. Guillen then had the choice of either accepting the $500K buy-out, or accepting $5 million for the one-year contract. He declined the $5 Million in order to become a free agent and thus he gets the $500 K buy-out . Given that he was very much a straight-shooter about his intentions not to accept a one-year of $ 9 Million (and certainly not $5 Million), it is interesting to note his reaction to the M’s decision-making:
“They just gave me a half-million for no reason,” he said with a chuckle.
I can’t believe it’s only a PR thing. Mike Morse is still on the team. Ryan Franklin continued to play.
There’re also a bunch of quotes from Armstrong signaling that they were not too distressed about the steroids/HGH issue.
For example:
Mariners president Chuck Armstrong told the AP the team remains interested in keeping Guillen.
“We thought he was an outstanding teammate. We were happy to have him. We know nothing about what happened in the past,” Armstrong said. “I continue to admire and respect him greatly.
“Before I feel anything negative about Jose, I need to see something tangible or real.”
I’m well aware of that. I don’t think the MLBPA should have to give in based on anything it says, either.
The MLBPA would have an interest in what the final draft says when it comes to which names get mentioned and which names do not.
The whole Guillen affair just smells funny to me – didn’t the Royals ink the contract like immediately after the M’s declined arbitration? It seems wildly implausible to me that the M’s wouldn’t have a pretty good idea that Guillen essentially had contract-in-hand. Granted I know nothing about the business but I’m just having a really hard time swallowing htat.
I wonder if there was some future/past considerations between the two clubs & Guillen that no one is allowed to talk about that factored into this. Bavasi’s been around forever, I just can’t imagine him tossing away the pick & $500k for no good reason. Even ‘pressure from above about the roids’ doesn’t really do it for me.
How is the Guillen situation any different than the Gary Matthews or Rick Ankiel siuations?
Seems to me that if he’s suspended then some others should be as well.
Is anyone else as tired as I am of having to come up with theories more intricate than any devised to explain the Kennedy assasination that will adequately explain the latest move the M’s have made? Just like every other time we’ve gone through this what appears on the surface to be an inexplicable, shortsighted, foolish move…will turn out after long last to have been exactly that or worse. Can’t the FO once…just ONCE make use wonder after a deal goes down what the OTHER guy was thinking?
There were probably three things going on in the M’s decision making process with Guillen, and I suspect that of the three, Guillen’s make-up and the HGH issue were the least important. The most important was probably an acknowledgement that Adam Jones needs to play; the second most important, and the scariest to me, is their commitment to Raul and the fact that they haven’t given up on the idea that he’s an outfielder. Please, Bill, please find a way to move Raul to DH (or even 1B if you must) and bring in Jenkins or someone else who can still cover the ground out there……
PLU Tim, at least one ESPNRadio host was saying that the reason the Angels signed a second CF is because they knew they were going to be many games without Matthews.
I would fully expect more suspensions.
Nov. 9 Declined his option
Nov & Dec Guliien talking to KC, looking for 4 years
Dec. 2 M’s decline arbitration
Dec. 3 KC starts talking to Andruw.
Dec. 4 Guillen is ok with 3 years.
How is the Guillen situation any different than the Gary Matthews or Rick Ankiel siuations?
Well, Ankiel, my favorite player of all time, was hucking balls at the assholes behind the plate talking on their cell phones. Guillen didn’t try to injure any assholes, even if they both tried to…augment their carrers. Plus, I will still maintain it wanst wildness that ruined Ankiel’s pitching, but distraction as the morons waved at their friends because they could afford a thousand dollars to watch a playoff game while goofing off on the phone. I couldn’t throw anything to home plate without the urge to huck something explosive at the jerks too.
Rick Ankiel lost it and could never pitch ever again because there were people in the box seats behind home plate talking on their cell phones? Was he willing to sacrifice his major-league career to make a statement to people behind the plate? Did he ever play baseball in the minors, where 70% of the crowd isn’t watching the game? I’m utterly confused.
Sidi is being fecetious (at least I hope), and is refering to Ankiel’s NLDS in 2000 where he threw probably about 10-15 wild pitches and basically ended his pitching career.
PLU Tim, As far as the HGH situation, Ankiel is only proven to have used it in ’04, and I’m not sure on Matthews but I believe his was before HGH was put on MLB’s banned substance list as well.
I personally think it’s ridiculous Guillen’s only getting 15 games, MLB is WAAAAY too lax with their drug policies. But that’s another discussion entirely.
It is probably safe to assume Guillen wasn’t going to get 4 years from anyone.
BTW – Huzzah for multiple postings three days in a row.
woohoo.
M’s pick up a knuckleballer in the Rule 5 draft.
#28– I dunno– after all, it was KC who gave Meche that wacky contract.
msb – I suppose that is true. Part of that could be attributed to the inflated pitching market. Had they given Guillen four years, it sure would cement how bad that francgise is run (not that we need much more proof).
Also.. re: 29
The guy they drafted in the Rule 5 is 33 years old. How excited should we really be about that?
I just like the idea of Dickey reinventing himself as a knuckleballer.
Oh, I don’t know much about him. Looking at the small sample of major league stats he has, I guess he can’t get any worse. He started one game in 06 and got blown up. Nothing before that looks that great, either.
I wonder if they plan to use him in the pen with spot starts?
When did he start knuckleballing?
Dickey used to be best known for being “that pitcher born without a ligament in his elbow” … Apparently he switched to the knuckler around ’05, and after that really bad outing with Texas in ’06 he changed his delivery even more, and had better success with it in Nashville.
30 and 31
Read this Joe Posnanski post
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/12/05/sigh/
on the Guillen deal to get an idea on how it must feel to be a Royals fan. Also makes me feel better about dumping Guillen.
at least one ESPNRadio host was saying that the reason the Angels signed a second CF is because they knew they were going to be many games without Matthews.
I would fully expect more suspensions.
And that’s crazy. Grounds for suspensions need to be negotiated with the MLBPA, and baseball doesn’t have any leverage on this one.
MOre and more I think the MLBPA is run by people on Selig’s payroll.
The guy they drafted in the Rule 5 is 33 years old. How excited should we really be about that?
Knuckleballers last forever. Just ask Wakefield. Or the Niekro brothers (well, you can’t ask Joe, but that’s not because he wasn’t durable on the mound).
Anyway, it’s a essentially a gamble with almost zero outlay (aside from the opportunity cost if there’s a hidden gem out there they could’ve picked up instead). If they get anything out of the guy, it’s a good move. And I’ll certainly watch more games if I think I’m going to see a knuckler pitch.
The only outlay for Dickey is a roster spot and those can be very valuable, assuming you have another player that can be productive waiting in the wings. On the other hand if this is the slot they were wasting last year on Rick White/John Parrish/Jason Davis then Dickey is even better than free.
Guillen’s suspension is official
It doesn’t apply in Guillen’s case, where they have the shipping records to back it up, but you know that excuse that goes “I must’ve taken tainted supplements”? It always sounded lame to me. But If this study holds up in broader tests, we may have to be a little more forgiving:
Here is a thought. Could Guillen’s 500K buyout be tied to a provision that the M’s wouldn’t offer arbitration? Thus, Guillen would get the ability to be slightly more attractive to a new team and the M’s would pocket 500K for not offering arbitration?
Just curious…how did Guillen only manage to get 10-15 games for HGH when Cammie wound up 25 for “stimulants”?
because there is a set penalty for a 2nd positive test for stimulants.