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	<title>Comments on: Four years and forty-eight million</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:14:05 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: JMHawkins</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246420</link>
		<dc:creator>JMHawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246420</guid>
		<description>Bah humbug.  When did Scrooge start running the M&#039;s.  Oh, wait.  Scrooge was a penny pincher.  The last thing he would&#039;ve done is pay a #5 starter $12 Million a year.  

I think I&#039;ll settle down for a long winter&#039;s nap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah humbug.  When did Scrooge start running the M&#8217;s.  Oh, wait.  Scrooge was a penny pincher.  The last thing he would&#8217;ve done is pay a #5 starter $12 Million a year.  </p>
<p>I think I&#8217;ll settle down for a long winter&#8217;s nap.</p>
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		<title>By: et_blankenship</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246402</link>
		<dc:creator>et_blankenship</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246402</guid>
		<description>The author mentions that Cameron&#039;s 150 K&#039;s would be painful if paired with Sexson but failed to notice that Wilkerson&#039;s 162-game average for K’s 162.  Wilkerson’s OBP is 100 points over his AVG but the merit of such an accomplishment is tarnished when said AVG is .250ish.  Besides, Cameron is a .250ish hitter and carries an OBP 90 points over AVG.  So what’s the difference?  Power?  Nope, SLG is practically identical.  Walks?  Nope, both guys know how to take a walk.  At the plate, the two guys are a wash.

On the bases, Cammy is mildly dangerous but he also turns 35 in January so we probably shouldn’t expect much.

And then there is defense . . .

Due to injuries and his ability to play multiple positions, LF is the only position Wilkerson has played with any regularity over the past few seasons, so a look into his Zone Rating and Range Factor might not be accurate . . . but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look.  Over the past few seasons, Wilkerson has a Range Factor in LF of about 2.00 (Hideki Matsui/Pat Burrell territory) and a Zone Rating between 8.45 and 8.10 (Adam Dunn/Carlos Lee).  The value of these statistics is debatable, but being linked to those four guys is not a good thing unless we are talking offense, which we most certainly are not.  

With Ibanez in LF (only Manny Ramirez posted a lower ZR in 2007), the last thing we need is another plodder manning the other foul pole.  

I didn’t look up Cameron’s RF/ZR because it’s safe to say it makes Wilkerson look like stick in the ground.

As for affordability, no doubt Wilkerson fits the budget . . . but just because a turd is free doesn’t mean you should take it home with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author mentions that Cameron&#8217;s 150 K&#8217;s would be painful if paired with Sexson but failed to notice that Wilkerson&#8217;s 162-game average for K’s 162.  Wilkerson’s OBP is 100 points over his AVG but the merit of such an accomplishment is tarnished when said AVG is .250ish.  Besides, Cameron is a .250ish hitter and carries an OBP 90 points over AVG.  So what’s the difference?  Power?  Nope, SLG is practically identical.  Walks?  Nope, both guys know how to take a walk.  At the plate, the two guys are a wash.</p>
<p>On the bases, Cammy is mildly dangerous but he also turns 35 in January so we probably shouldn’t expect much.</p>
<p>And then there is defense . . .</p>
<p>Due to injuries and his ability to play multiple positions, LF is the only position Wilkerson has played with any regularity over the past few seasons, so a look into his Zone Rating and Range Factor might not be accurate . . . but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look.  Over the past few seasons, Wilkerson has a Range Factor in LF of about 2.00 (Hideki Matsui/Pat Burrell territory) and a Zone Rating between 8.45 and 8.10 (Adam Dunn/Carlos Lee).  The value of these statistics is debatable, but being linked to those four guys is not a good thing unless we are talking offense, which we most certainly are not.  </p>
<p>With Ibanez in LF (only Manny Ramirez posted a lower ZR in 2007), the last thing we need is another plodder manning the other foul pole.  </p>
<p>I didn’t look up Cameron’s RF/ZR because it’s safe to say it makes Wilkerson look like stick in the ground.</p>
<p>As for affordability, no doubt Wilkerson fits the budget . . . but just because a turd is free doesn’t mean you should take it home with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Colm</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246401</link>
		<dc:creator>Colm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246401</guid>
		<description>msb - that may not be so dumb.  

Milwaukee only signed Kapler only signed him for $800,000.  He could do nothing but work on his tan and still orders of magnitude less damage to the Brewers than Silva will do to the M&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>msb &#8211; that may not be so dumb.  </p>
<p>Milwaukee only signed Kapler only signed him for $800,000.  He could do nothing but work on his tan and still orders of magnitude less damage to the Brewers than Silva will do to the M&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: ArtfulDodger</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246396</link>
		<dc:creator>ArtfulDodger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246396</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a link that indicates Brad Wilkerson&#039;s name is being tossed around in the FO as a potential replacement for Jones in right field. Anyone have a clue on his defense (the commodity of choice on this site)?  

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20071220/BLOG05/126819430</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a link that indicates Brad Wilkerson&#8217;s name is being tossed around in the FO as a potential replacement for Jones in right field. Anyone have a clue on his defense (the commodity of choice on this site)?  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20071220/BLOG05/126819430" rel="nofollow">http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20071220/BLOG05/126819430</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alaskan</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246360</link>
		<dc:creator>Alaskan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246360</guid>
		<description>Joser (57),
First of all, let me say that Jeff at LookoutLanding just said almost exactly what I said - he even used the term &#039;cripple&#039;.  

I understand how you feel, but I&#039;m choosing to focus on THIS move, not the inevitability of this mistake being repeated.  Things change.  GMs come and go.  Speaking of which, I think the chances of BB being gone at the end of &#039;08 are better than ever, given the obvious mediocrity of this club, and the high chance the will end up at or below .500.  I can see the ownership deciding it&#039;s time to give someone else a chance.  

So, yes, eventually Bavasi could cripple the club - but I&#039;m just saying he hasn&#039;t done it with this move, and there&#039;s a chance he won&#039;t get the opportunity.  That&#039;s all.  Also, it isn&#039;t totally inevitable Bavasi will ruin us if he stays - after all, he&#039;s been making this mistake for a number of years now (Sexson, Washburn, Vidro thru trade).  Maybe it&#039;s a sustainable string of errors.  Unlikely, but I don&#039;t know.  

Anyway, I am tempering your (and my) realism with some optimism.  There is no defense of this move.  There is only the consolation that if we were a team with a smaller payroll, we would be in even worse trouble than we already are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joser (57),<br />
First of all, let me say that Jeff at LookoutLanding just said almost exactly what I said &#8211; he even used the term &#8216;cripple&#8217;.  </p>
<p>I understand how you feel, but I&#8217;m choosing to focus on THIS move, not the inevitability of this mistake being repeated.  Things change.  GMs come and go.  Speaking of which, I think the chances of BB being gone at the end of &#8216;08 are better than ever, given the obvious mediocrity of this club, and the high chance the will end up at or below .500.  I can see the ownership deciding it&#8217;s time to give someone else a chance.  </p>
<p>So, yes, eventually Bavasi could cripple the club &#8211; but I&#8217;m just saying he hasn&#8217;t done it with this move, and there&#8217;s a chance he won&#8217;t get the opportunity.  That&#8217;s all.  Also, it isn&#8217;t totally inevitable Bavasi will ruin us if he stays &#8211; after all, he&#8217;s been making this mistake for a number of years now (Sexson, Washburn, Vidro thru trade).  Maybe it&#8217;s a sustainable string of errors.  Unlikely, but I don&#8217;t know.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I am tempering your (and my) realism with some optimism.  There is no defense of this move.  There is only the consolation that if we were a team with a smaller payroll, we would be in even worse trouble than we already are.</p>
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		<title>By: 300ZXNA</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246356</link>
		<dc:creator>300ZXNA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246356</guid>
		<description>72: um actually, I have to seriously wonder if that is indeed what Bavasi is envisioning . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>72: um actually, I have to seriously wonder if that is indeed what Bavasi is envisioning . . .</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246347</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:23:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246347</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;“He is a strike thrower who produces a lot of groundballs, and that is going to make our defense even better.”&lt;/i&gt;

So, let me get this straight: the defense makes the pitchers better, and the pitchers make the defense better?  So... what, the first day they all walk onto the field together the feedback loop begins spinning until the entire diamond explodes in an cascade of infinite awesomeness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“He is a strike thrower who produces a lot of groundballs, and that is going to make our defense even better.”</i></p>
<p>So, let me get this straight: the defense makes the pitchers better, and the pitchers make the defense better?  So&#8230; what, the first day they all walk onto the field together the feedback loop begins spinning until the entire diamond explodes in an cascade of infinite awesomeness?</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246338</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246338</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How many other organizations are this dumb? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

well, the Brewers just gave Gabe Kapler a major league contract at double the major league minimum to play outfield after Kapler spent last year managing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How many other organizations are this dumb? </p></blockquote>
<p>well, the Brewers just gave Gabe Kapler a major league contract at double the major league minimum to play outfield after Kapler spent last year managing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246337</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246337</guid>
		<description>fine snark from someone at Rotoworld:

&quot;It&#039;s an incredible haul for a guy who spent part of 2006 banished to the pen and has given up more than a run for every strikeout he&#039;s recorded in each of his four seasons as a starting pitcher. To put it another way, the Mariners are spending $12 million per year on a guy who wouldn&#039;t even crack the rotation of the team they&#039;re trying to catch in the AL West.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fine snark from someone at Rotoworld:</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s an incredible haul for a guy who spent part of 2006 banished to the pen and has given up more than a run for every strikeout he&#8217;s recorded in each of his four seasons as a starting pitcher. To put it another way, the Mariners are spending $12 million per year on a guy who wouldn&#8217;t even crack the rotation of the team they&#8217;re trying to catch in the AL West.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: CCW</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/comment-page-2/#comment-246336</link>
		<dc:creator>CCW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/20/four-years-and-forty-eight-million/#comment-246336</guid>
		<description>How many other organizations are this dumb?  Really... this is ridiculous.  If Bavasi doesn&#039;t understand the problem with paying $12,000,000/year for a player who is 5% better than a guy who&#039;d cost $500,000/year, then he&#039;s just an idiot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many other organizations are this dumb?  Really&#8230; this is ridiculous.  If Bavasi doesn&#8217;t understand the problem with paying $12,000,000/year for a player who is 5% better than a guy who&#8217;d cost $500,000/year, then he&#8217;s just an idiot.</p>
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