Geoff Jenkins signs with Philly
Dave · December 20, 2007 at 7:41 am · Filed Under Mariners
2 years, $13 million, for a high quality defensive outfielder who swings from the left side and has a swing tailor made for Safeco Field.
When you’re getting outsmarted by Pat Gillick, it’s time to do something else with your life.
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If you are Jenkins you get to patrol a lot less ground and get a lot more RBI’s and Home Runs for a potential playoff team in Philly. Wouldn’t most players prefer that to the situation is Seattle?
On the other hand maybe he could have got 4 years/44 million from Bavasi.
This is frustrating. Is there any info anywhere that says we had any dialogue with him? It seems that for 6.5 a year it would have been a good investment.
Setting aside the fact that the M’s failed to sign a relatively cheap, underrated player is this a good or a bad sign from the front office regarding their future plans? Does it indicate that they aren’t interested in outfielders this off-season (and hence might not be trading Jones)? Or simply that they will pursue a much more expensive and quite possibly less talented option when the need arises?
2 – I’ve read nothing all off-season that would lead me to believe Bavasi ever showed interest in Jenkins. It just goes to show you, whether they had a shot to sign him or not (re: #1), this team evaluates talent wrong, and builds a team incorrectly.
I can’t wait to see Ibanez running circles in left field for balls hit off Silva.
Geoff Jenkins has never played on a playoff team so he must not be a winner. I am sure that is why we did not pursue him.
I would also want to know if Jenkins had any interest in Seattle. I believe that the M’s did contact his agent at some point. If they were told that Seattle was not among Jenkins first choices, then they probaby directed efforts elsewhere.
Dave – Pat’s reading the blog as revenge for all past criticisms. This must be some kind of purgatory!
Say what you will about Gillick, but other than the J.C. Romero deal, which is only marginally bad — he’s done well this offseason.
bavasi has said publicly since day one that ibanez was going to be in left this season…i have no reason to believe that he even tried to sign jenkins…
it ruined my day to see that we signed silva and not jenkins this morning…that and too many shots at the company christmas last night…
That pretty much says that this team (and that includes MUCH more than just Bavasi) has no clue on team construction or HOW MUCH defense can impact the team’s record.
They talked to his agent at the winter meetings, at the very least. All we have heard for the last week is that jenkins was deciding between the Padres & the Phillies, which leads me to think he wants (smart man) to stay in the NL. Apparently interest from the Rays also went no where.
well, the way Bavasi has phrased it, Ibanzez would be in LF by default– back in December:
“But Bavasi says he needs to improve at least two starting-pitcher spots either with a new arm or improvement from someone already with the team and knows the trade price could be steep … Jones is slotted to start in right field next season, with Ichiro in center and Raul Ibanez in left.
“That’s not to say we wouldn’t make any moves,” Bavasi said. “But if we opened tomorrow, those are the guys who are in the outfield and [Jose] Vidro’s the DH.”"
Why would we want Jenkins? He’d just take at bats away from Raul and Vidro (who hit over .300 you should know) and everybody knows Raul is trying really hard to play left field competently…..
I think the M’s would be willing to move Ibanez out of left, but it certainly is not their priority. I assume that any efforts to pick up a corner OF will depend on whether or not Jones is dealt in a possible Bedard trade. Also, and this is pure speculation on my part, I believe that had Bavasi found a taker for Sexson, there would have been an effort to move Ibanez to first.
oh, I think that is pretty much everyone’s speculation…
13-
are you serious? jenkins would play a good right field, jones in left and raul can be the full-time DH…vidro to bench…
that would be a huge upgrade for the offense and defense…
too bad it can’t happen now…
please ask for a shift key for christmas thanks
#1
“On the other hand maybe he (Jenkins)could have got 4 years/44 million from Bavasi.”
Does Jenkins have a sinker?
If he has 2 pitches, maybe he could have gotten 5 years.
I find it irresponsible to bash the front office when a free agent signs for a reasonable deal on a different team. No one here has any idea if Geoff wanted to play in Seattle. It would be one thing if we have quotes of Geoff’s desire to play on the west coast or Seattle specifically.
Bashing the teams signings is fair but slamming them for not signing a guy like this is uncalled for.
That’s one potential outfield help gone. If (hypothetically) we were to trade Jones+ for Bedard, where would that leave our outfield at? Ichiro, Raul, and… Is there anyone that could fill the hole that is USSM approved (or even accepted)?
I thought watching the season was bad, but I would put watching the off-season up there with “Alien vs Predator”.
I doubt we even tried to sign Jenkins. Plus, he signed a reasonable deal. We could have overpaid (and overpaying for Jenkins would have been a way better idea than overpaying for Silva).
There is no clear indication that the Mariners were even considering trying to sign Geoff Jenkins, or realized his potential value to the 2008 team.
That is what people are “bashing” Bavasi for. It’d be an entirely different story if we’d tried to sign him and just lost out.
#20
Exactly. It makes no sense to trade AJ. The team would fill one giant crater in the starting rotation but make another huge hole in the outfield.
Man, these past few days have sucked. Of course there’s still plenty of time for more terrible transactions. Tis the season to become a Red Sox fan.
so the real question is what they will do next? sign another FA (colon, lohse, livan hernandez, etc.), run this team out next year, or start making some trades…
Why is Jenkins any better than Kenny Lofton? We could get Lofton for a cheaper one year deal.
jenkins has 20+ home run power…lofton does not…
Lofton would be a great fit if they could get rid of Sexson, move Ibanez to 1st, put Lofton in left, and have confidence that Wlad would blossom in Tacoma this year in preparation of an outfield in 09′ of Wlad, Ichiro, and Jones…
Unfortunately, that is a lot to hope for. I think a 1-yr Lofton deal would just be another band-aide, ignoring the bigger picture.
Kenny Lofton: .296/.367/.414, good league, noodle arm
Geoff Jenkins: .255/.319/.471, mediocre league, better arm
20 HR power is nice, but so is an above average OBP. Jenkins could easily decline into a sub-.300 OBP over the next couple years.
I kinda like the idea of a Kenny Lofton deal. If nothing else, at least he’s worth a random AA arm every June.
they could still put lofton in left without moving sexson though…all they have to do is DH raul and bench vidro…they won’t cause he slapped his way to hitting .300 though…
jenkins has 20+ home run power…lofton does not…
Well, I’m not exactly in tune with defensive measurements, but I believe Jenkins is better defensively, too. Not that Lofton is exactly Ibanez…
With McLaren spewing about how much he wants to have more stolen bases, Lofton does still get on base at a reasonable clip and has an acceptable SB percentage (76.7% last year, and nearly 80% career). He’s not deplorable defensively, and wouldn’t be horribly expensive. He’s a left-handed hitter, too (although, heh, yeah, he’s not a power hitter that would be helped by Safeco much).
I figured Jenkins would want to stick in the NL, and he’s smart to go to Philly’s hitter park instead of San Diego’s death-to-hitters park. But Lofton is certainly a reasonable option. Besides, if the M’s are out of it, there always seems to be a team that is willing to trade for him at the deadline. He wouldn’t be expensive either…
IIRC, Defensive metrics think Lofton’s CF defense is about average now. Arm strength doesn’t mean much, compared to range, either. Is there a good argument that Jenkins would be a better LFer?
Unless one is willing to put a lot of weight on the “swing tailor made for Safeco”, I don’t see much difference in their offensive value. I guess Lofton could finally collapse in his age 41 season…
Kunkoh wrote:
I don’t know if he would be “USSM-approved” at this point, but given Bavasi’s reluctance to throw Wlad out there next year, and Dave’s opinion (which I share) that Wlad isn’t ready anyway, my guess is you’d be looking at Jeremy Reed or FA-signing like Lofton or Brad Wilkerson in left (maybe Wilkerson would play RF), Ichiro in CF, and Raul in RF…..
32-
i’d think they’d run Morse out there before Reed…
According to the Seattle Times (via Rotoworld), the Mariners spoke with Jenkins’ agent on December 4th. Nothing much must have come of it.
As a Phillies fan (also), I’m pretty happy about the move, especially for that price. I wasn’t happy at Gillick letting Rowand go but this move is nice at the price.
Gillick’s done a pretty shaky job in Philly, much like the end of his Mariners reign, but this offseason has gone ok so far, and he seems downright competent compared to the job Bavasi’s doing (and has been for years). It had been a long time since I focused more on the Phillies than the Mariners, but that’s happened in the last couple seasons. I don’t imagine that changing anytime soon.
bako – You may be right about Morse > Reed in the Mariners eyes. Personally, though I may be the only one left in Seattle who feels this way, I think Reed > Morse. I think he has the potential to be a decent OBP, league average #2-hole hitter, and he’s a much better defensive OF. I see Morse as a potential 1B platoon partner, but really a disaster in the OF (unless he’s made significant progress there that I am unaware of), and more of the hack-tastic kind of bottom-of-the-order hitter that the M’s seem so fond of. I’m not keen on either Lofton or Wilkerson, either, but I think Lofton > Wilkerson. Neither should be more than one-year, or possibly one-year with some reasonable sort of option/buy-out, if they take the FA course.
Either/any way you cut it, Dave’s right: the options aren’t good, and it sucks to know that Pat Gillick had a better clue about this than we seemed to. Yes, it is unfair to criticize a non-signing without full information about how hard they went after a guy and whether or not the failing was more to do with the player’s preferences, but if there had been the kind of interest there should have been, I think we would have heard more…..
according to the hot stove on MLB.com, seattle is the favorite for bedard and it says the O’s are willing to take Jones OUT of the deal…
“In fact, echoing a general belief, the Post-Intelligencer said the Mariners are now considered the favorites to acquire Bedard, probably because the Orioles are more likely to drop outfielder Adam Jones from the asking price.”
i’m down for THAT!
Also — if you give Bavasi “credit” for Kenji, you can’t really give him “debit” for not signing Jenkins. For all I know, he really wanted to stay in the NL and (in spite of — or perhaps because of — having grown up here) didn’t really want to come to Seattle.
you can’t blame bavasi if a FA wants to sign with someone else…he’s shown that he is willing to overpay…
what we can blame him for are trades that hurt the club and for terrible roster construction…
You can’t give Bavasi “credit” for Kenji. He was dropped into Bavasi’s lap.
#39 — He was not. Bavasi and the M’s targeted Joh early, made a huge push to sign him, and signed him to a terrific three year deal. The Joh signing was a job well done.
#37– he may have been born in Oly, but he grew up in California…
38- You can partly blame Bavasi for not making this a place that FA want to sign. If you run a good team and make the right offers people will sign, Bavasi obviously does not do the necessary things.
#37– he may have been born in Oly, but he grew up in California…
Whoops, yeah. Well, anyway. I thought he was one of Capital High’s many MLB alums…
When you’re getting outsmarted by Pat Gillick, it’s time to do something else with your life.
Looking at the body of work, there’s not really any clear evidence that Bavasi has EVER been better at his job than Gillick, so why should we be surprised when Gillick beats him once again?
Or, to put it another way: Gillick has Moyer and Jenkins; Bavasi has Washburn. Gillick signed John Olerud; Bavasi signed Mo Vaughn. Gillick signed Mark McLemore; Bavasi signed Scott Spiezio. Gillick signed Rickey Henderson; Bavasi signed Carl Everett.
That’s not to say Gillick’s a genius (James Baldwin and Jeff Cirillo say “Hi, remember us?”), but it’s pretty clear who’s the better judge of free agents.
#42 — What necessary things does Bavasi not do? He may make bad decisions, but I cannot think of anything he has done that has driven off free agents. There are more fundamental reasons why a free agent would choose other teams and locations: travel (a huge issue), warm weather, NL vs. AL. Bavasi has made big offers to players, some (Schmidt and Kuroda) have simply decided to go elsewhere.
Dave – I know you’ve been a big Jenkins advocate all offseason, but me for one am TIRED of signing aged veterans on the wrong side of 30!
I personally wanted Jenkins REALLY bad 3-4 years ago, but not now. A 2yr $6.5M/year deal isn’t bad for him though, but the Brewers over the past 2yrs were platooning him for good reasons! That’s a pretty expensive platoon player!
I personallly would like the M’s to make the Bedard move, and have the M’s buyout his last 2 arb years and sign an extension for an extra 4 years through 2013. I “can” live with building this team over the next 5 years around Bedard & Felix at the top of our rotation…AND EVEN…Silva in the #3 spot behind those two!
Even with Bedard, Seattle isn’t going anywhere in 2008! I say:
1) Trade for Bedard.
2) Bring up EVERY qualified prospect left, after the Bedard trade, that we can “test out” in 2008.
3) Whatever prospects don’t pan out in 2008…Seattle’s holes for NEXT offseason will be obvious….
4) NEXT offseason when Sexson/Ibanez/Vidro/Johjima come off the books totaling $31.5M…go Sign Texeira @ 1B…AND whatever other holes we need to fill!
Have you all taken a look at the 2009 FA list?! HOLY SMOKES there are multiple TOP players at EVERY position AND multiple ACE SPs too!
2009 & Beyond is going to be pretty exciting to watch as a YOUNG Ms team!
I really don’t think Clement will go in a Bedard trade! And from the DetectoVision site there’s rumors that the O’s would send over another player with Bedard (possibly someone like LHB Luke Scott)…for a package that consists of:
Jones/Wlad/Morrow/Sherrill
I’d have to say if the O’s are offering that, and we can add Luke Scott in RF, I would be happy with that in 2008!
45- I agree its not all Bavasi, hence the “partly blame”. However he does make bad decisions and that gives players a reason not to come here. It is tough to get guys to play for a team that they know won’t be any good. It depends on the FA and what he personally wants out of a deal, but like with Kuroda I heard that he took less money for a better chance to succeed in LA. If that was just because its closer to home, NL, or Dodgers having a better shot at the playoffs, who knows? But if the M’s were an annual playoff team it would be easier to lure free agents to Seattle.
Nobody should take that seriously. There’s every chance that the majority of those players will be resigned/extended by their teams.
[excessively long off-topic post listing next year's free agents]
judging from players’ talk, they often have very little idea what makes a good team, and are thrilled to hear their team has signed someone we all think is a terrible mistake….
and re: signing Johjima:
In Oct, rumors go ’round that Joh is likely to try free agency, despite a nice 4-year offer from the Hawks.
In early Nov. he says that he will try, and flies to LA. About 6 clubs immediately get in touch with Alan Nero, including the M’s. It is said that the Pads have scouted him for a year, and are the likely front-runners, along with the Mets.
Joh visits Seattle, goes on to Nero’s office in Chicago & has a press meet, and is scheduled to go on to NY. He then surprises Nero by going back to Japan (later said to be due to a family illness) and not re-scheduling the NY trip. Word is that the Hawks offered a new & lucrative 1-year deal, and the belief is he’ll either take that or the M’s offer.
He signs with the Mariners.
Does Morrow have more or less upside than Bedard?
The SP talent on that 09 FA list is freakin’ nice. Good thing we’ve got all these other guys locked up……
Dave or DMZ -
Have either of you heard more rumblings of players wanting to avoid playing for Seattle lately? It seems like we’re hearing more often than usual that people want to stay away from our travel/smaller market sitch.
51- I am sure that they know a general state of the team. Their agents get a call from Bavasi, then that player talks to his teammates and friends around the league about Seattle. There are more then a few stories about players not being happy about their time in Seattle. Unless of course you are an aging vet who gets whatever he wants.
Once again I am not saying its all or even mostly Bavasi’s fault, but his role of how he puts this team together does get some factor into the decision.
according to the hot stove on MLB.com, seattle is the favorite for bedard and it says the O’s are willing to take Jones OUT of the deal…
“In fact, echoing a general belief, the Post-Intelligencer said the Mariners are now considered the favorites to acquire Bedard, probably because the Orioles are more likely to drop outfielder Adam Jones from the asking price.”
i’m down for THAT!
I’d love almost any trade for Bedard that doesn’t require Adam Jones, too. The problem is, I can’t find any basis for the speculation that the Orioles aren’t insisting on Jones. Despite the report, it doesn’t seem to be from the P-I, whose latest story on the subject pretty clearly says that including Jones is the starting point for any Bedard trade.
what stories have more weight, the ones from the guys who were traded and complain about it later, or the guys who talk about how the team made an effort to place them in a good situation when they knew it was time to part ways?
oh, and FWIW< Geoff Jenkins, at the Philly press intro:
“… had some other offers, looked at the stadium, the way it fit me, and a chance to win now, I looked at the park, and I knew some of the guys… “
56- Jenkins helps me prove my point…
Safeco fits him well, lefty bat and a chance to make an impact as a defensive OF.
He has almost no chance to win now. Partly Bavasi, the point I have been trying to make.
Safeco is considered one of the nicest venues.
I have no idea who he is friends with so I can’ comment on that.
or, he doesn’t help you prove your point as he mentions that he had other offers, and chose to stay in the NL, in a smaller park where the ball can fly out in the summer …
per Baker: “Carlos Silva is apparently in Seattle and will attend a 4 p.m. press conference at Safeco Field to announce the signing.”
Or he does cause I keep say Bavasi is PARTLY responsible however there are other factors.
Re: MLB’s Hot Stove Report
I believe that the article is simply speculating that of the Twins (Santana) and Orioles (Bedard) the O’s are more likely to accept a package not centered around Jones. Not necessarily saying that such a thing has been discussed. At least that is the way it read to me.
That said if we can keep Jones and still get Bedard I’m all for it. I just don’t see that being the case though.
If we still hope to get Ibanez out of the outfield (or if, heaven forbid, they give up Jones in a trade) who else is out there as a second choice to Jenkins?
Well, I don’t know where Cot’s gets their information, but they already have Silva listed on the M’s page “signed as a free agent 12/20/07″ — but no contract details beyond the 4/$44M.
Silva’s signing has its own post, but thanks for hijacking.
Anyone else wonder if Bavasi’s thought process was something like this:
“The Phillies are going to sign Jenkins to a 2 yr $13 mil contract? Well, then good we didn’t pursue him, because if he is only worth 6.5 mil per year he must really suck . . .”
*sigh*
#40 – you’re incorrect about Johjima. Read Bavasi’s quotes from that offseason:
“INDIAN WELLS, Calif. — The Mariners are Kenji Jojima’s first choice. He may not be theirs.
Jojima, who could become the major leagues’ first Japanese catcher, wants to play in Seattle next season, a club source said Thursday. The Mariners, however, are reluctant to sign him at the numbers — three years, $16-$18 million — floated by his representatives in recent days.
General manager Bill Bavasi has said he wants to find catching help, but has left that below pitching and left-handed power among his offseason priorities.
“It’s far down the list,” the club source said. “We have more pressing needs. To go out and get a catcher now, before signing a pitcher, wouldn’t be prudent.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/248008_mari11.html
That article was written on Feb 11, 2005. Ten days later, they signed him to a contract. He fell into Bavasi’s lap.
the article was in November, not February.
what Bavasi has said than, and since then, was that they intended to get pitching first, and look for offense later, but Johjima’s somewhat unexpected availablility in November (at the same time as the GM meetings) changed their focus — is that what you mean by ‘he fell in their lap’? They still had to sign him, and despite the not very accurate ‘club source’, there was competition.
Gillick with Jays-They win the World Series
Gillick with Baltimore-Reach ALCS.
Gillick with Seattle-Reach ALCS twice. GM of a team that wins 116 games.
Gillick with Philly-They reach playoffs for the first time in a decade.
Clearly the man is just lucky and has no real business in baseball.
I have been told that Jenkins wanted to stay in the NL and was only considering NL offers. I suspect that was the reason Bavasi never really went after him. Of course Jenkin’s agent would never let something like that become public knowledge. I do not have any proof to back up my claim however.
68 – bayoumariner: Gillick certainly knows how to build a team for short-term success. Building a team that can sustain that success? That is more than debatable. Look at what happened to each of those teams as / after Gillick left….
OK… what if we sign Shawn Green, Luis Gonzalas or Trot Nixon… Trade Jones and Clement for Bedard and keep Morrow?
Then we wait for Wlad to develop… anyone one of those guys gives us lefthanded pop and a year or two of time to either develop another OF or pick one up.