Comments on: It’s Done http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sun, 08 Nov 2009 04:39:06 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: DMZ http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252245 DMZ Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:20:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252245 Park effects. Park effects.

]]> By: sealclubber253 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252244 sealclubber253 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:09:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252244 With all the Boston talk, I thought it would be interesting to compare the combined numbers between their starting pitchers of 2007 and ours for this year with the 2007 numbers also. Boston- Dice-K, Beckett, Wakefield, Schilling and Taverez Seattle- King Felix, Wash, Batista, Silva and Bedard Boston 68-50 878IP 415ER 4.254ERA Seattle 66-52 960IP 426ER 3.993ERA If our guys can put up similar numbers to last years, we are almost dead on with the world champs with a more rested bullpen. Now, if we can only find a way to score 867 runs like they did last year... With all the Boston talk, I thought it would be interesting to compare the combined numbers between their starting pitchers of 2007 and ours for this year with the 2007 numbers also.

Boston- Dice-K, Beckett, Wakefield, Schilling and Taverez
Seattle- King Felix, Wash, Batista, Silva and Bedard

Boston 68-50 878IP 415ER 4.254ERA
Seattle 66-52 960IP 426ER 3.993ERA

If our guys can put up similar numbers to last years, we are almost dead on with the world champs with a more rested bullpen.

Now, if we can only find a way to score 867 runs like they did last year…

]]> By: jullberg http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252121 jullberg Mon, 11 Feb 2008 06:09:50 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252121 My opinion of this team has completely changed and now I'm only looking at them solely as a source of entertainment. When Felix and Bedard pitch I'm going to be excited, but I certainly am not going into this season with expectations of the playoffs. Wake me up in four months if the M's are in the hunt, that way I can watch them collapse again on the back of crappy defense and a worn down bullpen. My opinion of this team has completely changed and now I’m only looking at them solely as a source of entertainment. When Felix and Bedard pitch I’m going to be excited, but I certainly am not going into this season with expectations of the playoffs. Wake me up in four months if the M’s are in the hunt, that way I can watch them collapse again on the back of crappy defense and a worn down bullpen.

]]> By: cwel87 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252104 cwel87 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:48:20 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252104 309 - everybody seems to forget, but Beckett was traded for Hanley Ramirez, who is widely regarded as the next A-Rod, so you're right, tons of talent has been extracted from the Red Sox farm system for those players. The difference is, of course, they actually had a strong lineup when the trade was made. 308 - "Due to the fact that we now have a great pitching staff and a great defense, I think we did very well in this trade." Who ever said we have a marginal defense, let alone a great one? The King of Bloopers himself is still patrolling RF, and Sexson still blows at first base. He'd blow if he were 7'6''. The middle of the field is very good, as is the third baseman, but anything more is a stretch. 309 – everybody seems to forget, but Beckett was traded for Hanley Ramirez, who is widely regarded as the next A-Rod, so you’re right, tons of talent has been extracted from the Red Sox farm system for those players.

The difference is, of course, they actually had a strong lineup when the trade was made.

308 – “Due to the fact that we now have a great pitching staff and a great defense, I think we did very well in this trade.”

Who ever said we have a marginal defense, let alone a great one? The King of Bloopers himself is still patrolling RF, and Sexson still blows at first base. He’d blow if he were 7′6”. The middle of the field is very good, as is the third baseman, but anything more is a stretch.

]]> By: gwangung http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252098 gwangung Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:56:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252098 <blockquote> My point about Boston was that some magical mix of homegrown prospects and “Pros from Dover” seems to be the formula for winning big in pro sports. Dealing away young players may not be a bad thing if you deal away the right ones. </blockquote> Um, notice the timing. Generally, you deal the youngsters AFTER you're core is set, and not the core itself.

My point about Boston was that some magical mix of homegrown prospects and “Pros from Dover” seems to be the formula for winning big in pro sports. Dealing away young players may not be a bad thing if you deal away the right ones.

Um, notice the timing.

Generally, you deal the youngsters AFTER you’re core is set, and not the core itself.

]]> By: naynay51 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252095 naynay51 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 01:28:06 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252095 Re: #308. You forgot to mention Mark Lowe. When he was healthy, he was an outstanding reliever, and he could step into a 7th or 8th inning role. I think that, by and large, relief pitchers are easier to find than starters. Three years ago, no one had heard of George Sherill, he was a minor league journeyman. The club recognized a gem, polished him up, and ran him out there. They can do the same with the young talent currently available. Adam Jones is, by all accounts, loaded with potential. He may be the next Ken Griffey Jr. Or he may be the next Mike Cameron. The next year or two should tell. My point about Boston was that some magical mix of homegrown prospects and "Pros from Dover" seems to be the formula for winning big in pro sports. Dealing away young players may not be a bad thing if you deal away the right ones. Spending millions in the free agent market may not be bad if you spend wisely. I know that the recurring theme in USSM is that the current management does neither well. Hopefully this deal will buck the trend. Re: #308.
You forgot to mention Mark Lowe. When he was healthy, he was an outstanding reliever, and he could step into a 7th or 8th inning role. I think that, by and large, relief pitchers are easier to find than starters. Three years ago, no one had heard of George Sherill, he was a minor league journeyman. The club recognized a gem, polished him up, and ran him out there. They can do the same with the young talent currently available.

Adam Jones is, by all accounts, loaded with potential. He may be the next Ken Griffey Jr. Or he may be the next Mike Cameron. The next year or two should tell.

My point about Boston was that some magical mix of homegrown prospects and “Pros from Dover” seems to be the formula for winning big in pro sports. Dealing away young players may not be a bad thing if you deal away the right ones. Spending millions in the free agent market may not be bad if you spend wisely. I know that the recurring theme in USSM is that the current management does neither well. Hopefully this deal will buck the trend.

]]> By: eponymous coward http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252091 eponymous coward Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:18:26 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252091 <i>I don’t think Jones is going to pan out either. The guy didn’t do much at the Majors last year, what’s going to change that this year?</i> Covered in BEEEEEEEEES! I don’t think Jones is going to pan out either. The guy didn’t do much at the Majors last year, what’s going to change that this year?

Covered in BEEEEEEEEES!

]]> By: eponymous coward http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252090 eponymous coward Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:17:24 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252090 <i>If you want to win a World Series, you have to bring in some high priced talent to play along side your homegrown talent. The current “class” of MLB, the Red Sox, have a big group of “hired guns” who didn’t come up thru Pawtucket (Ortiz, Ramirez, Varitek, Crisp, Schilling, Beckett, Dice K, etc.).</i> How many of those Red Sox players were acquired by trading away a bunch of farm system talent? Just wondering. If you want to win a World Series, you have to bring in some high priced talent to play along side your homegrown talent. The current “class” of MLB, the Red Sox, have a big group of “hired guns” who didn’t come up thru Pawtucket (Ortiz, Ramirez, Varitek, Crisp, Schilling, Beckett, Dice K, etc.).

How many of those Red Sox players were acquired by trading away a bunch of farm system talent? Just wondering.

]]> By: westportman http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252073 westportman Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:53:16 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252073 Adam Jones may well have been our future...but right now, we are playing for today. Bavasi knows this is his last chance and he very well could be canned if the team doesn't make the playoffs. BY signing Silva and trading for Bedard (a Cy Young candidate), we have given ourselves a deep rotation. We lose Sherill, but look at who's all in our bullpen now. Flaherty, Putz, Morrow, Ramirez, Rowland-Smith. As well as possibly having Arthur Rhodes and R.A. Dickey. We may have given up prospects, but now our whole pitching staff is very deep. Another interesting fact I came upon...Sherill is a year older then Bedard. Sherill was a great reliever, but Bedard could be key to us winning the division. Bedard went 13-5 on a very bad team in 28 starts. Let's say he stays healthy, gets in 34 starts, and has the same ERA as last year. Your looking at a 19-20 game winner, easy. Throw in Silva's 13-14 wins. Felix will probably get 14-15. Washburn will get 9-10 and Batista 13-14. That's way better then having last year's rotation (Felix, Washburn, Batista, Weaver, Ramirez, Morrow, Flaherty). Due to the fact that we now have a great pitching staff and a great defense, I think we did very well in this trade. I don't think Jones is going to pan out either. The guy didn't do much at the Majors last year, what's going to change that this year? Oh...and 3 "highly" regarded prospects may never pan out either. I think we got a steal in the trade by far Adam Jones may well have been our future…but right now, we are playing for today. Bavasi knows this is his last chance and he very well could be canned if the team doesn’t make the playoffs. BY signing Silva and trading for Bedard (a Cy Young candidate), we have given ourselves a deep rotation. We lose Sherill, but look at who’s all in our bullpen now. Flaherty, Putz, Morrow, Ramirez, Rowland-Smith. As well as possibly having Arthur Rhodes and R.A. Dickey. We may have given up prospects, but now our whole pitching staff is very deep. Another interesting fact I came upon…Sherill is a year older then Bedard. Sherill was a great reliever, but Bedard could be key to us winning the division. Bedard went 13-5 on a very bad team in 28 starts. Let’s say he stays healthy, gets in 34 starts, and has the same ERA as last year. Your looking at a 19-20 game winner, easy. Throw in Silva’s 13-14 wins. Felix will probably get 14-15. Washburn will get 9-10 and Batista 13-14. That’s way better then having last year’s rotation (Felix, Washburn, Batista, Weaver, Ramirez, Morrow, Flaherty). Due to the fact that we now have a great pitching staff and a great defense, I think we did very well in this trade. I don’t think Jones is going to pan out either. The guy didn’t do much at the Majors last year, what’s going to change that this year? Oh…and 3 “highly” regarded prospects may never pan out either. I think we got a steal in the trade by far

]]> By: Joof http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/comment-page-7/#comment-252006 Joof Sun, 10 Feb 2008 06:12:54 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/08/its-done/#comment-252006 For 306: 1: While getting other talents can be a big part of winning a world series, its not helpful if it doesn't get you into the playoffs. Also, Varitek... well... God, that trade was stupid. Anyways, Varitek's played his entire major league career for the Red Sox after we traded him away for Heathcliff Slocumb as a minor leaguer. 2: The Marlins have done this a couple times. Grow a world series team, sell off the entire team for prospects from other teams, and then wash, rinse, repeat. 3. While the results often depend on random chance, you want to minimize the need of luck to get you wins. For example, if you're dealt a 16 in blackjack while the dealer has a 5 showing, you can win by doubling down. However, that doesn't give you that great of odds, while a better plan would be to stand. Even if everything is determined randomly, there is likely a choice that will result in success more times then the others, which is what Sabermetrics tries to figure out. 4. No, that won't have any effect on him playing better. What would make him play better is the fact that he is going to be another year older, with more experience then he was last year. He's 22 this season, so he still has a lot of growth left, but it won't be because he's not the number one starter anymore. For 306:
1: While getting other talents can be a big part of winning a world series, its not helpful if it doesn’t get you into the playoffs. Also, Varitek… well… God, that trade was stupid. Anyways, Varitek’s played his entire major league career for the Red Sox after we traded him away for Heathcliff Slocumb as a minor leaguer.

2: The Marlins have done this a couple times. Grow a world series team, sell off the entire team for prospects from other teams, and then wash, rinse, repeat.

3. While the results often depend on random chance, you want to minimize the need of luck to get you wins. For example, if you’re dealt a 16 in blackjack while the dealer has a 5 showing, you can win by doubling down. However, that doesn’t give you that great of odds, while a better plan would be to stand. Even if everything is determined randomly, there is likely a choice that will result in success more times then the others, which is what Sabermetrics tries to figure out.

4. No, that won’t have any effect on him playing better. What would make him play better is the fact that he is going to be another year older, with more experience then he was last year. He’s 22 this season, so he still has a lot of growth left, but it won’t be because he’s not the number one starter anymore.

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