Comments on: What the M’s can still do http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 14:00:02 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: gwangung http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252414 gwangung Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:39:49 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252414 <blockquote> I was actually talking about Jones there, should have been more clear with the pronouns. I really value low strikeout rates in minor leaguers and it seems like anyone who strikes out more than once every four at bats struggles when they get to the bigs. </blockquote> Apparently, that's the team attitude for the Ms. Not sure that really works out (see Mike Cameron).

I was actually talking about Jones there, should have been more clear with the pronouns. I really value low strikeout rates in minor leaguers and it seems like anyone who strikes out more than once every four at bats struggles when they get to the bigs.

Apparently, that’s the team attitude for the Ms.

Not sure that really works out (see Mike Cameron).

]]> By: rea http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252359 rea Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:33 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252359 <i>why do they have to keep Cairo?</i> They're not <i>required</i> to keep him, but it would be surprising to pay him $850,000 and then release him. If the Mariners are giving away money to peole they don't plan to keep on their roster, I'd like some. why do they have to keep Cairo?

They’re not required to keep him, but it would be surprising to pay him $850,000 and then release him. If the Mariners are giving away money to peole they don’t plan to keep on their roster, I’d like some.

]]> By: regfairfield http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252358 regfairfield Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:04:29 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252358 I was actually talking about Jones there, should have been more clear with the pronouns. I really value low strikeout rates in minor leaguers and it seems like anyone who strikes out more than once every four at bats struggles when they get to the bigs. I was actually talking about Jones there, should have been more clear with the pronouns. I really value low strikeout rates in minor leaguers and it seems like anyone who strikes out more than once every four at bats struggles when they get to the bigs.

]]> By: marc w http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252352 marc w Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:36:50 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252352 Thanks 105 - And yeah, he better hit better than a .730 OPS in tacoma, but I'm assuming Reg meant in Seattle. And yeah, that's about what I'd expect. So far, he was able to turn a disastrous intro to AAA in 2006 into extremely solid production in 2007, so it's not like he hasn't shown an ability to learn/grow. Out of curiosity, why do they have to keep Cairo? If someone opens their eyes, or if they're able to grab someone else off the scrap heap, he's outta here (OK, he and Jimerson). Just because they signed him to a major league deal doesn't mean they're bound to the guy. Thanks 105 -

And yeah, he better hit better than a .730 OPS in tacoma, but I’m assuming Reg meant in Seattle. And yeah, that’s about what I’d expect.
So far, he was able to turn a disastrous intro to AAA in 2006 into extremely solid production in 2007, so it’s not like he hasn’t shown an ability to learn/grow.

Out of curiosity, why do they have to keep Cairo? If someone opens their eyes, or if they’re able to grab someone else off the scrap heap, he’s outta here (OK, he and Jimerson). Just because they signed him to a major league deal doesn’t mean they’re bound to the guy.

]]> By: galaxieboi http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252349 galaxieboi Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:24:03 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252349 Marc- I think you're using last year's PECOTA comps. Munson, Helton and Nixon are from the recently released PECOTA Weighted Means speadsheet. As a player makes improvements and ages his comps are apt to change. And I hope he hits better than 240/310/420 if he's in Tacoma. Marc- I think you’re using last year’s PECOTA comps. Munson, Helton and Nixon are from the recently released PECOTA Weighted Means speadsheet. As a player makes improvements and ages his comps are apt to change.

And I hope he hits better than 240/310/420 if he’s in Tacoma.

]]> By: rea http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252346 rea Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:18:14 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252346 <i>#95 — You probably meant “Morse” is out of options</i> Eeek! Yes . . . #95 — You probably meant “Morse” is out of options

Eeek! Yes . . .

]]> By: regfairfield http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252345 regfairfield Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:15:56 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252345 101 - If it doesn't improve, he'll never be a great hitter, but his patience, power and defense will keep his performance at acceptable levels. With that said, he's got all the time in the world to make it better, and he's gradually been improving. I wouldn't be surprised if he hits something like .240/.310/.420 in the first half this year. 101 – If it doesn’t improve, he’ll never be a great hitter, but his patience, power and defense will keep his performance at acceptable levels. With that said, he’s got all the time in the world to make it better, and he’s gradually been improving. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hits something like .240/.310/.420 in the first half this year.

]]> By: Wishhiker http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252343 Wishhiker Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:37:57 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252343 I just think O'Flaherty's got Fu. I don't know what exactly Fu is, but it seems to me it might be the anti-scrappy. Ask Fu Master Putz about it... I just think O’Flaherty’s got Fu. I don’t know what exactly Fu is, but it seems to me it might be the anti-scrappy. Ask Fu Master Putz about it…

]]> By: marc w http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-3/#comment-252339 marc w Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:41:58 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252339 99 - I think it's entirely logical to focus on a minor leaguer's bat, especially given scouting concerns that a player may not stick at his current position. We are - by choice, it's true - focusing solely on his bat at this moment. If that's distressing to you, please, look away. galaxieboi, I'm glad you're confident of Clement. seriously, his college pedigree is great, and gives me a bit more confidence. My point initially was that his stats are pretty good for a young-ish catcher. They're not the sort of stats that put to rest any doubt about MLB hitting ability. So yes, let's hope he develops, and let's hope his defense means he stays behind the plate. btw, what comps are you using? In PECOTA, his top comp is Ryan Christianson, which should give all M's fans pause (2nd is Mike Jacobs, which is much better, although Jacobs didn't stick at C). 87 - I brought up Brown and Soto just to say that Clement wasn't the best hitting catcher in his league last year. Again, the point is, he's done pretty well *for a catcher* so far. If there's any doubt about his ability to stick there, that's necessarily going to impact his ranking. I'm not absolutely sure he'll rake in MLB. I'm more confident saying he's a pretty good hitting C prospect. If he was an OF, we're not having this conversation, that's all. Sure, Brown wouldn't have been overlooked if he'd done this at 23. He was well known at 23, of course, but that's another story. Also, if Balentien's K rate bothers you, what do you make of Adam Jones' rate? 99 – I think it’s entirely logical to focus on a minor leaguer’s bat, especially given scouting concerns that a player may not stick at his current position. We are – by choice, it’s true – focusing solely on his bat at this moment. If that’s distressing to you, please, look away.

galaxieboi, I’m glad you’re confident of Clement. seriously, his college pedigree is great, and gives me a bit more confidence. My point initially was that his stats are pretty good for a young-ish catcher. They’re not the sort of stats that put to rest any doubt about MLB hitting ability. So yes, let’s hope he develops, and let’s hope his defense means he stays behind the plate.
btw, what comps are you using? In PECOTA, his top comp is Ryan Christianson, which should give all M’s fans pause (2nd is Mike Jacobs, which is much better, although Jacobs didn’t stick at C).

87 – I brought up Brown and Soto just to say that Clement wasn’t the best hitting catcher in his league last year. Again, the point is, he’s done pretty well *for a catcher* so far. If there’s any doubt about his ability to stick there, that’s necessarily going to impact his ranking. I’m not absolutely sure he’ll rake in MLB. I’m more confident saying he’s a pretty good hitting C prospect. If he was an OF, we’re not having this conversation, that’s all.
Sure, Brown wouldn’t have been overlooked if he’d done this at 23. He was well known at 23, of course, but that’s another story.
Also, if Balentien’s K rate bothers you, what do you make of Adam Jones’ rate?

]]> By: galaxieboi http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/comment-page-2/#comment-252338 galaxieboi Wed, 13 Feb 2008 09:39:02 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/2008/02/11/what-the-ms-can-still-do/#comment-252338 I'm afraid of that too. However, this is a time when perhaps the Mariner love for 'veteran grit' will pay off. "We don't need that kid. We've got two perfectly good catchers already. Leave him in smelly Tacoma for another year." Maybe? I’m afraid of that too. However, this is a time when perhaps the Mariner love for ‘veteran grit’ will pay off. “We don’t need that kid. We’ve got two perfectly good catchers already. Leave him in smelly Tacoma for another year.” Maybe?

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