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Let Me Get This Straight
This is the sequence of events the M’s saw happen today.
1. Erik Bedard’s hip continued hurting, so he got scratched and his next start is up in the air.
2. Adrian Beltre’s hamstring kept him out of the line-up, so he was replaced by Miguel Cairo.
3. Mike Morse embarrassed and then injured himself playing right field.
4. Eric O’Flaherty got pounded again, likely purchasing his bus ticket to Tacoma.
5. The Angels beat them.
That’s a bad day right there.
This team essentially has five good baseball players on it - Bedard, Felix, Ichiro, Beltre, and Putz - and three of them are now hurt. If Bedard is out for an extended length of time, this team is done. The entire concept of the 2008 Mariners is that those five guys would carry a substandard supporting cast to a division title. Well, you take Bedard and Putz out of the equation, and this isn’t even a .500 team.
The Mariners cannot make the playoffs without strong seasons from their entire core quintet. Right now, whether they’ll get that or not is up in the air. The first two weeks couldn’t have gone much worse for the M’s.
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I think it’s important to emphasize that Mike Morse actually hurt himself during an attempt to play defense. And not crashing into a wall, or falling into the stands. He actually managed to hurt himself going after a short popup. Shortly thereafter, Ibanez takes a shallow pop fly in the armpit. I’m guessing they’re waiting until tomorrow to pick up their games in the absence of their team leaders.
Does anyone know of any pitchers that have missed time with hip soreness? I’m trying to get a grasp on the range of possible bad Bedard news here.
I agree with Dave with much of what he just said, but did we not just see the Mariners take 2 of 3 from the Angels without Bedard or Putz?
I’ve heard that the Bedard thing concerns the medical staff but they don’t consider it seriously chronic (like it will continue to plague him for the rest of his career).
When Jeremy Reed was assessed by the same medical staff back when he played center field, they said he was one run into the wall from permanently damaging his wrist and ending his career. It doesn’t sound like Bedard’s problem is even close to being that serious.
From what I’ve heard I don’t think (and I really, really hope) that the Bedard thing is like the Indy Colts’ Marvin Harrison last season, where the trainers wouldn’t come clean about his injury and just kept listing him as questionable for weeks.
You don’t fill seats with pessimistic reports about your product. Doesn’t mean Bedard has a serious problem — just that we’re not likely to hear about it unless and until it becomes inevitable.
seems to me Pedro had a similar hip inflammation problem a couple years back, that eventually put him on the DL
I hope bedard starts to heat up, so far haven’t seen anything too impressive
Guessing at tomorrow’s roster moves: Bedard and Morse to the DL, O’Flaherty to Tacoma. Callups for Balentien, Dickey, and Jimenez.
It’s not like the Angels aren’t having their own problems right now. The caliber of play from the Mariners so far is simply not high enough to be a contender. Or not embarass themselves on a regular basis.
Fans today were unhappy that they didn’t get to see Bedard. Sure, you won’t fill seats if you are pessimistic about injuries but you also won’t fill seats if your fans are upset that they get excited and buy tickets to see the new ace only to have him scratched/postponed the day of. I think fans who want to know what’s going on with a team’s players would rather have the team be forthcoming than hear vague non-answers. Those won’t sell tickets either.
I’m not saying that the management isn’t going to downplay bad stuff, I’m just saying that downplaying stuff doesn’t guarantee more ticket sales and can just be as ineffective as being upfront about a player’s status.
the team can’t release any medical information without the player’s say-so (remember those HIPAA forms you signed at the doctors?) I’m not saying that is the case here, just that information isn’t as readily available to the media and the fans as it once was.
The hip is not a joint where inflammation is likely to be a minor issue. Unless you’re a 50+ year old female or have experienced trauma to the region, hip issues shouldn’t happen. Not good.
The bigger problem with Pedro was that he tried to pitch through it and wound up injuring almost every other body part in the process. Hopefully the M’s realize that holding him back until the problem clears up is the best course of action.
Today has brought up a whole lot anger I had stuffed over the Bedard trade. I need to vent. What a farking horrible, dumbass, stupid trade. Why does our front office always make their plans contingent on pie in the sky contingencies: “We need a power bat in the lineup, so rather than do something about it, we’ve decided that Sexson will be the AL Comeback Player of the year. We may have traded for a fragile LHP, but we’ve decided that he won’t get hurt, will be the AL Cy Young and our 1-2 Punch! will lead us to the promise land!”
Yeah. That’s the ticket.
Looking at the bright side of this…They finish the “two weeks” one game under .500 at 6-7 and are 2 games out of first.
If things couldn’t have gone much worse and this is the result, there is still hope.
a1
We also got swept by the Orioles during that stretch as well.
$10 says that someone over the course of the coming week will say something about Griffey’s wrist and the 1995 team and how injuries can bring a team together.
I’m making a note here: EPIC FAIL
from Larry Stone:
“Mike Morse had his left shoulder in a sling afterward, the result of his dive in the sixth inning. He has what is being called a sublexation of his left shoulder. Basically, it popped out when he hit the ground, then popped back in. He was going to have an MRI tonight. He could be headed for the DL. “
Ugh. Just…..ugh. Every single one of my fears about this season have been confirmed.
Our offense? Mediocre.
Our defense? Awful.
Our bench? Laughable.
Our bullpen? Imploding.
Bedard? J.J.? Beltre? Hurt.
I will now be counting down the days until Seahawks training camp opens.
Keep in mind, hip issues are also what ended the careers of both Albert Belle and Bo Jackson.
If that stuff is true Dave, then whose fault is that?
Bavasi has traded away so much of the farm the last couple years and has gotten so little in return it is ridiculous, and an even deeper problem is the fact that Lincoln and Armstrong continue to support this nonsense. And of course, if they should fire Bavasi, who knows if they could do much worse next time they hire a GM?
I hope eventually it is time for Chuck Armstrong and Bill Bavasi to go. This organization could use a breath of fresh air and a fresh new philosophy on baseball like what has happened in Cleveland, Tampa, and now Baltimore among other places.
I was about to mention Bo Jackson also. Grew up watching him play for Auburn, and it still hurts me that he wasn’t able to finish a full career. So hearing hip problems for Bedard has me worried till he’s out there pitching like a champ again.
Morse, Morse, Morse. I’m not sure anything good could be said about his “defense” today.
In perspective though - we just took 2/3 from the Angels, and “That ain’t bad.”
O’Flaherty threw 60 pitches today, 43 for strikes. Here’s how it went down:
14 sliders - 3 in play outs, 2 called strikes, 1 swinging strike, 2 fouls, 1 hit (double), 5 balls
37 fastballs - 2 in play outs, 8 called strikes (1 strikeout), 1 swinging strike, 9 fouls, 6 hits (homerun, double, 4 singles), 11 balls
8 changeups - 5 swinging strikes (1 strikeout), 1 foul, 1 hit (double), 1 ball
1 curveball - 1 fielders choice (the groundout to Yuni that he threw home).
For those following along with our home game edition:
64% strikes on sliders but only one missed swing. The one hit was a by Howie Kendrick, batting right handed, and it was the play Morse was twisting and turning around like an idiot on. This was the first “bad defense” play that hurt O’Flaherty. Two of the outs were recorded on right handers as well. Normally, a lefty pitcher wont throw a slider to a righty, unless they’re darned sure they can get it really in on them (Arthur Rhodes, Randy Johnson type sliders). Normally, a lefty pitcher would throw more changeups to righty hitters, because it tails away from them. As you can see by the changeup results above, maybe this was partially the result of bad pitch selection.
70% strikes on fastballs and, again, only one swinging strike. However, looking at the Gameday PitchFX data, there’s some interesting results on the pitches made:
Kotchman got the first fastball hit, and it was a 91mph belt high fastball on the outer half of the plate. Not a good pitch. Kotch had just stared at a slider, so throwing a fastball away was a bad call. I don’t know if that was Burke or if O’Flaherty missed his spot, but it wasn’t a good pitch at all. This is a mistake pitch he didn’t get away with. This was also a bad defensive play by Ibanez, rather, it’s one that an average left fielder makes. Ibanez had to play it on a hop and then flinched at it when he misjudged the hop. This is the second “bad defensive” play that hurt O’Flaherty.
Please bear in mind, if EITHER of those defensive plays are made, the inning is over.
The Mathis double in the 7th wasn’t that bad of a pitch. I mean, go look at the pitch location yourself if you want. According to Gameday, the fastball was nearly in the opposing batters box. Mathis just went out and poked it. Good hitting or dumb luck? Either way, looks bad for Potatoes.
Right after him, Aybar performs a good piece of hitting, pulling an inside 89mph fastball down the left field line. The pitch location has that thing in and slightly off the plate. Good hitting or dumb luck? Your judgment call there.
The Figgins single comes next that drops in front of Ichiro. This fastball is a 91mph fastball even FARTHER inside then the pitch that Aybar hit. It’s way in on his hands and he fights it off for a single. Good hitting or dumb luck? Neither, the Angels are annoying and live off these duck snort hits.
After the double steal, HGH Jr comes up and grounds a ball back through the box that probably would have been fielded if the infield wasn’t up for a play at the plate. Good hitting or dumb luck? I call this situational frustration. The pitch was on the outer black of the plate, so it wasn’t a horrible mistake by O’Flaherty.
The last hit on O’Flaherty’s fastball was the Mathis home run. There’s no defending this pitch. It’s a belt high 89mph fastball on the inner half of the plate. A total mistake that even a scrub like Mathis can drive out of a ball park.
As for the rest, the changeups were working wonders against the righties. Vlad Guerrero looked like a chump on two from Potatoes and the only person who didn’t flail at his offspeed pitch was Howie Kendrick, who hit a changeup off the plate and away for a double. That’s a good piece of hitting, really. Tip your cap to that.
On the radio after the game Drayer said that Bedard had this same hip problem (or something very like it) flare up 8 years ago (which would’ve been back when he was in college), and it has been fine since. So you could either view it as “uh oh, chronic condition” or “well, he got over it and it didn’t bother him for years, so maybe…”
One thing about Bedard, he’s been hurt a lot but it’s never for the same thing. But this would sem to be a repeat, and pitchers generate their power from their hips….
joser,
The “official” website had a similar piece on it here Mclaren points out that he’s had that condition before and that the Mariners are fairly alarmed it came back. Whatever it is, it doesn’t sound good.
Yes, pony time: not only did the M’s take 2 of 3 from the Angels, but still with that entire list of things going wrong today they only lost 1 game. Granted, Bedard (and possibly Beltre) are worries going forward, and the bullpen is a bit of a mess, but JJ will be back soon. Not many teams get to win two out of three from their divisional rivals and then get the best closer in the league added to their roster. Betancourt keeps getting on base like he’s the pre-leadoff leadoff guy. Lopez is taking pitches and looking like he knows what he’s doing. Raul’s on fire. Even Richie is catching up to a pitch now and then.
Meanwhile, KC is coming to town and they’re about due to begin the fall to their proper place in the AL Central standings.
I have a fantasy.
In my fantasy, a kind old mariners fan (who also happens to be a billionaire) gets fed up with 30 odd years of losing, and buys the team.
He ships Lincoln, Armstrong, Bavasi and co. all of to a desert island, where they spend the rest of their days trying to order imaginary mojitos and raving incoherently about “1-2 punches.”
He hires Dave and Derek as the new President and GM.
Sweet Lou realizes he’s never going to win with the Cubs, and returns to Seattle amidst great fan-fare.
Edgar gets tired of embroidery, and becomes our hitting coach.
Jamie Moyer finishes a spectacular career, and becomes our pitching coach.
Johnny Mac goes back to being the bench coach. If he’s lucky. He’ll get Lou coffee and tie his cleats.
The new USSM Management signs some players who can, well, play.
We take the division, pound Cleveland in the ALDS, destroy the Yanks in the ALCS, and win the World Series in 5 against SD.
Then I wake up.
As I was afraid of a few months back…Bedard, Erik…see also: Gullett, Don; Fernandez, Sid; or Guzman, Juan.
O’Flaherty threw 60 pitches today, 43 for strikes. Here’s how it went down:
That looks like horrible pitch selection. Establishing the fastball, perhaps? He had by far the worst results from the fastball, and yet threw it nearly 2/3rds of the time. It’s not like he wasn’t able to get the junk over.
19.
Let’s hope the hip injury also ends the careers of Bavasi, Armstrong and Lincoln.
$10 says that someone over the course of the coming week will say something about Griffey’s wrist and the 1995 team and how injuries can bring a team together.
The correct response is what Randy Johnson’s back did to the 1996 team. I see a lot more parallels to that if they lose Bedard.
“You can’t predict injuries” and “he passed his medical.”
Those two phrases will get Bavasi out of any criticism on that score (not that there’s not plenty of other criticisms, on that trade and elsewhere).
That’s a bad day right there.
All true. I hadn’t heard any explanation of Bedard being scratched until now. Not the kind of news that we’d hope to get from the guy who’s supposed to be our ace and for whom we gave up 5 players. Ugh.
I did get to see the two plays where Morse dove trying to make plays. The first one he trapped the ball (but came darned close to catching it)…so an “A” for effort but no style points. I watched him go face first into the turf and thought “good way to get hurt.” Sure enough, the second play he messes up his shoulder.
The play Ibanez had to make was interesting to watch, but the TV commentators were pretty funny, comparing Ibanez’s play to an NHL save. “You gotta keep it in front of you”…never mind that you need the wheels to get to the ball so you don’t have that situation happen…
All of this, plus O’Flaherty’s sudden stunning Rick White imitation does not inspire warm fuzzy feelings. Still…too early for me to start up the “fire Bavasi et al” bandwagon. There was too much of that at the end of last year…and here we are.
Fingers crossed that JJ gets back and some sense of order is restored to the pen, and that Bedard’s hip improves shortly.
All I can offer at this point is here.
Hmmm, that’s a link but you wouldn’t know it unless you moused over it. Is Derek messing with the CSS again?
Duchscherer was shut down last year with a hip problem. He appears to be healthy this year, but has had to skip a start with nagging pain that I understand is normal for his type of injury. Bo Jackson’s condition was congenital and degenerative, quite unlike Duchs sprain, so there is a pretty broad array of possibilities.
Bedard’s slow start is not terribly concerning, in and of itself. He has, yet, to get off to a really strong start in his major league career. The injury, however minor, is deeply concerning and reflective of the major concern that many of us opposing the deal voiced at (or before) the time. He has simply always been fragile and the likelihood of getting 200 innings or 30+ starts out of him in any given year just isn’t high enough to justify the price paid.
Or, as CBC’s Jim Hughson might put it, “Great saaaaaave, Ibanez!”
Wasn’t Adam Jones the one who was supposed to have a degenerative hip condition? I recall that being one of the pre trade rumors.
Fact is: Bedard gets injured. They joked about Pedro’s yearly trip to the DL , his 15 day vacation. That’s stuff is in Bedard’s ‘make up’, too. Too many people took the line that he’s an automatic lock as a CY Young candidate. True, this likely isn’t osteoporosis, the guy is young. But is it a harbinger of things to come? Perhaps. Winning 15 games and logging +/-185 innings might not do it for us… I don’t understand making trades that require ‘perfect world’ outcomes. We need a perfect ‘breakthrough’ year out of the guy. This F.O. has a history of doing this. Our payroll is awash the old, oft-injured and overpriced. Bavasi’s M.O. is overspend today for yesterday’s talent so you don’t get fired tomorrow. I suppose the question remains what happens next week. So far Bedard looks O.K. Not dominant like a Becket. At times it looks like he’s pitching in some Southern League double-header. During those innings of 25-30 pitches he had this, “Whaddya want me to throw..?” look on his face. He certainly hasn’t looked like the dominant, I am in control of the game, staff ace yet. Here’s hoping he does.
I’ve had subluxation of the shoulder. The difference between subluxation and dislocation is that the shoulder pops back in without help. What that does is indicate a weakness in the shoulder socket, and it’s likely to become chronic and require surgery. Without surgery, it becomes easier and easier for the shoulder to pop out. My first experience was with trauma (during a wrestling match) and my last was from a simple sneeze (after which I had surgery). But I wasn’t a professional athlete. Morse is probably at the point in his career where a long term injury would be very deleterious to his prospects, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to tough it out. And then it’ll pop out playing catch or something.
Hey, Breadbaker, have you ever had subluxation of the shoulder?
I certainly hope that Bedard doesn’t get a subluxation of the shoulder cuz that would, you know, really screw up the Mariners’ “We Got Two Aces” stratergies.
The Mariners don’t have a history of trying to hide injuries, they threw Putz on the DL tout suite after he hurt himself, ditto with Felix last year. They may be concerned with Bedard, but there is no indication right now that it is serious. Beltre has had to rest his hammy before and he usually isn’t out long. I like Morse but honestly I’m not going to waste many pixels worrying about his health, at least in terms of it’s affect on the team. Putz seems to be on a quick road back just like Felix last year. Eric O’F has thrown 6.2 innings, and while his results have been terrible, he hasn’t looked that bad, which I hope still counts for something.
That’s all just my optimistic take, but don’t get me wrong I’m willing to join the panic parade if it will stampede the front office into signing a power hitting left handed DH still atheletic enough to steal a few bases, has a disiplined strike zone, and a surly streak a mile wide. Are there any left out there?
These two examples don’t counter the organization’s long history of injury-related concealment, disinformation, and misdiagnosis.
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what about Raul and Sexson in 07? If we are to believe their post factum admissions, and the numbers support this so far, they played through injuries that went unnanounced for long, long periods of time and were hurting the team throughout. That’s the most recent example that springs to mind.
Teej Says: Hey, Breadbaker, have you ever had subluxation of the shoulder?
I think he’d tell you he’s wrestled with it before and it’s nothing to sneeze at…
Let’s be a little realistic here. There’s a big difference between a pitcher and a running back when talking about hip injuries. Bedard isn’t getting wrapped up by 300lb defensive tackles and slammed to the ground.
Assuming it isn’t some sort of degenerative issue, the healing should be a lot easier.
It sucks even more bc the only knock on Bedard is that had never hit 190 ip … it looks like he is going to struggle to get there again this year.
We certainly need him though.
Wow, I spent all day doing yardwork and didn’t touch the TV, internet, or radio. I wake up sore this morning and find all this out. Well, I probably feel better than Morse, Beltre, and Bedard.
Is Dave on KJR later to examine these issues?
so has Richie Sexson.
I had the unfortunate luck to be at yesterdays game. As we were walking through Safeco taking in the sights we hear over the P.A. that Bedard is out and will be replaced by Baek. I sigh. We take our seats and they announce the lineups. No Beltre instead we get Cairo, and Morse gets a chance to stumble around in Right. I put my head in my hands and moan softly to myself. That was pretty much my position for the rest of the game, with occasional winces as Morse would misplay a ball and Cairo would pop-up weakly in the infield. At least I could console myself that it was beautiful day weather-wise. Oh, wait… No, the weather was crappy too.
Not exactly the vision I had in my head as I wended my weary way to the Park.
40 - I’ve fully dislocated my shoulder 6 times. It is very true that after it happens once, it easily becomes a repeat injury. I’ve done it swimming, playing softball, and even rolling over in my sleep. So I can understand your sneeze injury.
Through spring training and his first starts this season, Bedard has not looked like a healthy, top of the rotation pitcher. Did Bavasi know about Bedard’s hip problem and roll the dice anyway?
Bavasi’s evaluation that O’Flaherty was ready to fill Sherrill’s shoes reinforces the belief of some that he is a horrible judge of talent (aside from that great trade for Huber, ha, ha). Meanwhile, Sherrill has five saves, and is sorely missed in Seattle. It will be interesting to see if Sherrill can overcome his August swoons, however.
Morse had one really bad defensive play, but has played better than I expected in RF this season. It is likely that Balentien would have caught the ball that Morse trapped, however, not to mention the ball Morse broke the wrong way on.
It was also disappointing to see Morse strike out with two on and nobody out. However, it was equally upsetting to see Morse injured, no matter how it occurred.
You see the power in that Angels line up, batter after batter, and you wonder how the Mariners can compete with them. If Morse getting injured means that Balentien gets called up I think I’d take it.
I saw that Adam Jones struck out four times yesterday, that can’t have been good.
I would gladly take Adam’s strikeouts, in exchange for his range and arm in RF.
50 - No, that’s called Suckluxation
I’ve only dislocated knees (about 6-7 times), so I know how uncomfortable it is, especially right after it happens. Much like it made it hard for me to run in football, I expect it can’t make swinging a bat or fielding a ball very easy for Morse.
I see no humor in making fun of a player’s injury.
I would argue that the Betancourt should be added to that list of “good players”.
Other than that, agreed on all accounts.
Regardless of what happens with Adam Jones, remember that there was another player in that trade. A guy who might turn out to be the best closer in the league at this rate.