Five years of USSM
Over five years ago, the current incarnation of USSM first published (April 11th, 2003). We’re now two years into running on the USSM server, purchased with the generosity of our users and running by the grace of Digital Forest, which donates rack space and bulk electrons. I’d like to thank, again, everyone who chipped in during that moment of crisis, and Digital Forest for their continuing tolerance of that black box in the stacks.
Anyway, I thought this would be a good time to talk about the state of things.
According to Google’s analytics, which are a little low for reasons I’ll skip discussing, we have about 6,000 regular visitors here who load up the home page every day, and we’ll see 10-12,000 visits on a weekday (that split surprises me, but again, that’s not important). We’ll serve 60-80,000 pages on particularly heavy traffic days, like a trade or a major signing. There were games last year where we had more unique visitors than the announced attendance at Safeco Field.
We’re doing this essentially for free. Over the history of USSM, between the tinkering with Google Adsense, the sidebar ads, and whatnot, we’ve made $0/post, and $0/hour. That’s not that hard to do, actually, given that we’ve put up nearly 5,000 posts since we started, and there’s more to where we are today, so –
Currently, we make a little money off the ads (I think a sawbuck is the minimum buy and only because I haven’t invested the time in working out a pricing scheme), in part because I’m not interested in slapping a banner up top and inside posts. The Amazon links off the recommended reading list throw us a buck now and then, and that’s cool. We tried selling swag, and that didn’t really work, though I’d admit we didn’t put a long-term effort into it.
We solicited donations for the server purchase about two years ago, and beyond that, I’ve tinkered with the “Buy us a beer” button at the end of posts, and since we first tried that, we’ve gotten about a hundred takers. Which is awesome, and thanks if you donated that way.
I’ve heard we ask for donations all the time, when in the entire history of USSM, there were two posts — 2, yes – during the August 2006 server drive that mentioned it.
I’ve heard that I use USSM to promote my other writing, which makes me smile – I had that gig writing web content for the PI, if you remember, and if you don’t know what web freelancers get paid per piece, well, it’s not a lot. If my nefarious plan was to write free content to get a chance to write nearly-free content, I’m not much of an evil genius.
I’ve heard sometimes that I (we) pimped Cheater’s Guide too aggressively when it came out, and I’m not sure where that comes from. We mentioned the book 34 times in total and that’s if you count me giving away copies, two pointers to the Cheater’s Guide blog, and two passing, no-link mentions. There’s the sidebar ad for the book which comes and goes, but I’ve always felt that if anything, I didn’t do enough to push the book here — the number of regular readers who bought was a lot less than I’d hoped, while I was still reluctant to keep mentioning it. And I think my book’s great.
34 times, if you’re into the stats, means about 0.7% of all posts in USSM history have mentioned the baseball book I wrote. (You know what? Make it 35: Buy The Cheater’s Guide to Baseball. Now we’re up to 0.7%)
Anyway, whenever I run into these things I don’t know how to respond. It feels a lot like when I run into someone who’s convinced that we pushed some story we never wrote — I want to open the books and point, say “look here, there’s the Blogads rate, there’s how Google never paid us…” in the same way I want to say “search the site for Carl Everett stories, I think you’ll find we weren’t big fans” but I wonder if any level of disclosure would do good.
In mid-2005, I quit my day job at one point to finish the book and write full-time. I’d always hoped that USSM would eventually be a paying gig for Dave or me, but when I had a go at it, and spent more time than ever writing long posts here, tending game threads, and investing a ludicrous amount of effort in the site, and I think people did notice. But we ran a trial of Paypal donations, and no one pitched in. I lost a lot of money.
To which you might well say “well, that’s your risk,” and I entirely agree. That’s not my point, though — it’s that there was a period of time there where I looked at USSM as the majority of my full-time job writing, and we still didn’t ask for money, or plaster the site in ads, or run pledge drives. I just wrote and wrote until the well went dry and I went back to work. I’ve essentially given up hopes of making USSM a paying venture for now: I don’t see that there’s a path to making any kind of living at this without making compromises I’m unwilling to do.
There’s often an implied or explicit threat in complaint emails we get, which says “I’d donate if you weren’t such jerks about Bloomquist” or whatever their particular cause is, and I have three reactions:
- We’ve tried to be really clear that we think Bloomquist is a useful back-roster guy and offers something off the bench, while we take exception to how he’s used and the fawning press coverage he gets (or whatever the response is to the specific complaint)
- Really? You’re a regular reader and you appreciate everything else, you read the blog, you like our commentary, and you would give us money if we would compromise on that one thing?
- No deal.
The last of which is the kind of snippy response that endears us to 1% of our audience and alienates many more.
Which brings this all around to something I wrote back in October 2003, in discussing why we weren’t accepting blank donations:
None of this should be taken to imply we’re doing this for money, only that for as much time, effort, and $ we put into it, it’d be nice if we broke even, and even better if we could have a nice dinner next time David’s in town. That’s all — we didn’t start this to cash in, and if it’s that much of an issue, I’d rather just eat the money than have this be a hassle.
That’s where we still are, in many ways. There are paths to making more money: more ads, more donations, joining some random site network, trying to form a site network, and so on.
But as Dave’s said, we’ll do this until it stops being fun, and those things make this less fun pretty quickly. If we’re not in it for the money — and I don’t see how you can make an argument that we are — the warm fuzzies are the only compensation that makes this worth doing. Despite the most-commonly cited complaint about us, we have always done this because we’re nutty Mariners fans, and we want to do good for the Mariner fandom we’re part of.
Personally, though, the side effect of that (and you can feel free to call me thin-skinned or whatever, the line forms on the right) I’ve been finding this a lot harder to enjoy lately. The background noise of potshots and drive-by commenters makes me feel like I’m being ground down over time, and this off-season was particularly bad around the Bedard trade, which I don’t think we’ll rehash. If we didn’t have volunteer mods these days, I don’t know that I’d put up any posts with comments. Really. I understand part of that’s the popularity, and an inherent difficulty with having a thousand new visitors a day swing by, but it’s not an enjoyable part of the work. AOL/MSN/Hotmail all eat people’s invitation email, and they drop us a line to ask what happened — I spend a couple hours a month on stuff like that. Or trying to make the site run faster, or be able to serve more people during game threads — Dave once estimated that we spend 30 hours a week on USSM, and having tracked my time over the last few weeks, I don’t think that’s far off. That hasn’t been easy to do.
Which leaves us in many ways where we’ve been for years: somewhat popular, influential beyond our readership (I still remember driving into Seattle on I-90 one day hearing a sports talk radio caller read my post word for word and be complimented by the host for making a good point), making enough money to buy Dave dinner when he’s in town, stuck unwilling or unable to make a jump to money-printing enterprise.
That’s not so bad.
Here’s my questions to you then, after making you read all that: what do you want from USSM in the future? What can we give? How do we continue to make progress in our goal of helping build Mariner fandom, and of supporting it as one of the smartest and best in baseball?
Comments
USSM uses and recommends
I’ve been lucky enough to be here for the past two years. USSM is my favorite website (which explains why I check it out at 1:45 in the morning) and every M’s fan should be grateful for this place.
I definitely think a new line of U.S.S. Mariner merchandise would benefit everyone.
Pimping your book would only be a bad thing if it sucked. Seriously people, if you havn’t bought Cheater’s Guide then do it. I promise you it doesn’t suck. I passed it around to a lot of co-workers up here in Prudhoe Bay and it now rests in the lending library on the manmade island of Northstar in the Beaufort Sea off the northern arctic coast of Alaska. I bet no one has taken it further north than me!
USSM so far this season has been pretty optimistic about the lackluster start for the team. Yet you still get labeled as the negative bloggers.
Fans who actually think Bloomquist would be an All Star if only he got his chance are morons, and putting any kind of weight into their opinions of you is a waste of your time.
Finally, there are probably hundreds of people like me who read the blog every single day, but are not prolific posters here. I, for one, am willing to pay a monthly fee to get access to your writing. I like it that much. I have a good job and can afford it though I am sure some couldn’t. Is there a way to set up an automatic monthly contribution to you guys? I do that for some other sites for my teams.
Derek,
What you guys do is awesome. Please, please don’t stop.
As for the money part of it, is there any way you can allow free reading of posts, but charge something like $5/year for commenting privileges?
By doing this you’d still allow your work to be seen while minimizing drive-by commenting and encouraging thoughtful discussion.
Just a thought.
And again, thank you for USSMariner. I don’t know how I’d start my morning without it
Well, after reading this post, my thoughts are thus: We’ve all paid $19.95 a month for stupid video clips or news alerts or porn or whatever. Soooo, given the quality of what you offer here, if there’s a way I can donate $20 a month, please let me know. I know one of you has said in a previous post that when asked that question, you tell people to donate the money to charity. Well, obviously we’d rather send our money here. Please tell us how.
Re: #4
Spot on. You guys are popular enough that you can start charging for the site. Give people free one-month memberships so they can check out the site. Make viewing it $5/month and $20/month for accessing comments – since that’s one of the main difficulties of running the site, right?
I’m surprised you only spend 30 hours/week on the site – I would have guessed more.
Honestly, how much would it take for you guys to go full-time on this? I’m sure there’s people out there who could help you figure out when would be the right time for you guys to make the move to pay-site.
You both vastly under-estimate how much baseball fans love reading knowledgeable writing.
I don’t comment often but I’ve been here a while (the first post I read was the debate regarding a potential trade for Aaron Boone way back when).
What I would like is a buy a beer link at the bottom of the major posts so I can contribute whenever I like a post. That way, if I’m receiving something (such as a well written post I enjoy [which is very frequent here]) I can pay for it. This thread should have a buy a beer link. Please put more of those links. Thank you.
I somehow stumbled upon USSM while trying to survive a tedious summer job a couple years ago. The only nice thing about it was I got unbridled internet access and had at least a little bit of time each day to surf the net, and this site became the first that I checked every single day. It’s amazing how much I’ve learned about baseball, how much more appreciation I have for the game from reading the things you and Dave write on this site, and how much fun it is to get involved in the discussions about the team. Even though I don’t personally know anybody involved with this site, I feel like I’m a part of something, and I think you guys are doing an awesome job.
It’s nice to know that there are fans that really try to understand the game, not just spout off meaningless dogmas they heard from Steve Phillips or go crazy over pitcher’s win totals. It shows that baseball is a complicated sport but that smart people can delve into its intricacies and maybe even make the sport as a whole better (see: the power of the internet).
Anyway, it’s awesome that this site is free. As a visitor, I obviously want to continue to be able to access this awesome content for free. On the other hand, I’d be willing to pitch in if it would help assure this site kept running and you kept contributing to it. I don’t know how it would work…I don’t know if there is the critical mass of dedicated readership to really support the site, (you’d probably lose a lot of readers if you required a monthly fee, but if it was optional, not many people would actually pay it), it’s a difficult situation to be in.
But I know there are a lot of people that read this blog that would be willing to dedicate time, money, whatever to make sure it maintains its quality over time. And maybe there is some solace in knowing that there are some people (like me) who really feel changed by being part of this. I tell everyone who will listen how awesome this site is and when I get into arguments about how Richie Sexson isn’t actually a good defensive first baseman, or how the Adam Jones trade was actually a bad deal, I talk about stuff I’ve learned on here. You’re shaping the debate about baseball in Seattle, and that’s the kind of thing that will continue to influence the fans around here for a long time.
Is this all just because taxes are due today?
I haven’t been reading this blog very long, just this season in fact, so take what I say with a grain of salt. Still, the only reason I read blogs like this is to see what other fans think of this years team and our chances at making a run at it. I certainly wouldn’t pay to read any blog though–regardless of the content quality. So if you want to put up more ads by all means.
Of course, those of us using feed services don’t see them anyway. Still, you can set yours up to only display the summary like most of the newspaper blogs do, but generally I read fewer posts in their entirety when they do that.
I can understand your frustration with the way the internet works and wanting to make sure it stays fun. Of course I don’t have an answer for how to do that without losing money in the process. I guess you could buy a block of choice season tickets to auction off somewhere on the site and recover costs somewhat that way. You could even offer fans a chance to come to the game with you, buy you a beer and a dog and banter about your latests “what ifs” or something. You might lose even more money that way also, but wouldn’t it be fun?
I just recently started visiting the site, and I have to say that it’s nice to have a home on the net. I was born and raised about a half hour south of Seattle but go to college in L.A. now. This single site has given me sanity living in the land of Halos and Dodgers. Even if I do not necessarily agree with what you guys have to say, I still get to discuss Mariners baseball with somewhat competent humans, and that makes every day a good day.
Take it for what it’s worth but I was able to pick up an internship this summer working for the Dodgers, and a handful of the people I work for have read this site and had nothing but positive things to say. I hope that means something to you guys, and is some sort of incentive to keep this site alive!
Looking forward to many more years of the mighty U.S.S.M.
This is my first post ever here on USSM. All I would like to say is thank you. I’ve been reading the site since 2003 and I can safely say I feel like I know this team far, far better since I started. Please never stop posting, I would gladly pay whatever it takes to keep you guys up and running, but as a broke college kid I’m very glad you don’t.
Oh and everybody, The Cheater’s Guide is awesome. I got it for my birthday last July and it is probably my favorite baseball book of all time. If you love baseball and this site the book should be a slam dunk!
Hey Derek,
Is there a link through which we can donate through Amazon? You guys do a fantastic job, and I’d be more than happy to throw some money your way.
Bigger lettering (or adjustable lettering). I adjust my letter-sizing in the browser yet the size of the words on USSM never change. After reading the threads each day, I usually get an eyestrain headache. Really though, everything else is great.
First of all, I am a Seattle baby. I was born at Swedish hospital, and grew up about a half a mile from the University of Washington. I’ve been a devoted Sonics, Seahawks, and Mariners fan my entire life.
USS Mariner is my favorite destination on the entire internet. Honestly.
You guys rekindled my interest in a team that has been a nightmare to follow lately.
You introduced me to a way of analyzing baseball that brought satisfying, intelligent thought into the equation rather than the antiquated methods that dominated baseball for nearly a century.
I can’t in good conscience suggest anything other than to keep doing what you’re doing. I’d love to see you guys start to make some money at this, since this is a service I appreciate more than many, many other things that I do pay my hard earned cash for. If nothing else, just shoot me an email with a mailing address, and I’d be thrilled to send a check your way. We really do love you guys.
How can you continue making progress? By posing that question to us, I say you’re doing it. Continue your aspirations to make this site one of the most intelligent and meaningful ways to be a Mariner fan-especially for fans on the other side of the country like me.
I remember in Statistics class one of the first things they teach you is that when you’re conducting a poll you have to be careful, because the people most likely to go through the trouble of voicing their opinions are the ones with strong negative opinions. I thought that was relevant.
It saddens me that the negativity and the “background noise of potshots and drive-by commenters” threatens to suck the fun out of it for you, though it’s understandable. I’ll be happy to donate some dough to this site. Stimulus checks, everybody!
So as for what you can give, and how to make progress, just do whatever you have to do to keep it fun for you. Personally, I’ve always appreciated the the sense of humor on here. Some of the stories in Cheaters Guide had me in stitches, and I’ve been spreading them around ever since (and I will never forget the Bugs Bunny post). I don’t know, change your approach if you have to, whatever you gotta do to keep it fun, because your service has been and will continue to be greatly appreciated!
Don’t change a thing, Derek. You and Dave have a wonderful site. Don’t let any idiot comments bring you down. People log in just to leave a negative comment on my site every once in a while and I never understood why. I’m doing it all for free (as you guys seem to be) – if you don’t like what I’m writing, you’re welcome to disagree, but there’s no need to get negative about it and if you feel that strongly, just leave. So it’s not just USS Mariner. It’s everywhere on the Internet (and real life too, I guess). Try to ignore if you can.
And I second the many comments above about Cheaters Guide. I loved it too (and I never would have bought it other than to support you — so that’s something this site has given, right?) Keep up the good work. Of all the sites on the Internet, yours is the one I check first every morning (of course, that’s usually because the Mariners game ended too late for me to know what happened — East Coaster here). Thanks for all the great reading.
I too bought the Cheaters Guide to support the site. This site is one of the tabs that opens when I launch Firefox every day at home, and I spend a decent amount of time here while I am working as well. I love this place. I wouldn’t change a thing.
I own a sweet USSMariner Hoodie sweatshirt, and wear it proudly. I would be happy to donate some cash; however, I seem to never be on and/or have extra money when the ‘Buy the Author a beer’ button is active. Throw that up, or put a way I can PayPal some cash to you whenever rather than only occasionally, and consider it done. If you guys want to offer a ‘premium membership’ with access to some cool posts early, I’ll do it. Whatever it takes.
Being a lifelong M’s fan adrift in the wasteland of red sox nation, it’s you guys and Lookout Landing that really keep my connected and informed with all things Mariner.
Between the fine writing, the passion, the education, I think the bottom line is I owe you a shit-ton of beers. So please put up a “Buy the Authors a Refreshing Beer!” again soon, just for starters.
I, too, would gladly pay for the honor to read this site. You guys do fantastic work. My only qualm has always been the look of the site, as I find it to be a bit drab for my taste (a very subjective point, so I want labor over it). But hey, the content is some of the best on the web, and I wouldn’t give that up for anything. If you have another donation day, I’ll gladly toss over a chunk of change. Or if you prefer the beer donations, I’ll go that route. Whatever method the USSM crew wants to utilize in order to get some cash flow, I’ll gladly contribute.
Keep up the good work and get that Future 40 link working so I can lament over our prospects!
6,000 loyal readers.
If you got 1,000 of them to pay a 7.95/month full access mempership fee.
And you got another 1,000 to pay a 3.95/month fee for reading posts only.
You would have a monthly income of close to 12K. You could tinker with the numbers to find out what dollar figures work best, but this site is way better then some of the other sites I pay for.
Also, I would dig a USSMariner sweatshirt.
DMZ, what you all do to make this site happen is fantastic. Great reads pretty much everyday. I believe it’s been three years now that I have been a member here after I was advised of the site from a Mariners hater in my yearly baseball pool. He said “You love the Mariners right, well you will love this site, they have some great analysis of the team.
I live in Kingston, ON Canada (just outside Toronto) where the Jays are my second fav. team. Your site has reached here and I spread the word to anyone that enjoys great posts and commentary.
I would be more than willing to donate some kind of fee/donation or any other random act of kindness. You like coffee? I’ll send you a tin of Tim Horton’s coffee just to keep you writing!
Keep up the great work!
I’m a regular reader who bought the book! I just didn’t write about it here.
I’d buy a T-shirt (Doyle’s Army? or Willie Bloomquist fan club? or just the USSM logo) or cap if they were offered. And if the site went to a pay-to-comment model, I would support that as well.
I’m an “old-school” baseball fan. Grew up loving and playing baseball. Went to college and played baseball. Thought I knew a lot about it. Read a lot about baseball from being a Dodger fan in my youth to a Mariners fan when I moved to Seattle in ‘90. When I first hear about USSMariner.com, I immediately looked you up and was introduced to Advanced Baseball Theory and Analysis 301. You opened up a whole new world of study for me in baseball and to be honest…a lot more humility on the topic than I ever had before.
What keeps me coming back more than anything are the insights and statistical analysis into the game…something I don’t get from regular writers. And, it is the ONLY place I care to read what other fans think because of the POLICING and moderating you (and others) do of the threads. No flamethrowers or insults! Brilliant!
I guess what I’m saying is I truly appreciate the work that you do put into this and can only say you’ve added a new dimension to my appreciation of baseball. I don’t always agree with your analysis, but I’ve come to appreciate the exercise of the baseball cranium on a regular basis. Who knew I could learn so much more about Statistical Analysis than my professors in College ever taught me in classes! You should create a college course for the mathematics and statistical departments that focuses entirely on baseball analysis and get paid to do teach it!
MY SUGGESTION would be to set up your blog along the lines of what Matt Drudge does. You could offer links to ongoing threads, links to articles about the M’s, and links to preferred journalists and those who are some of your best contributors to the discussions. That way I can just set up USSMariner as my homepage and link to the important reads from your site to others and pick out my favorite writers and contributors to the Mariner world.
Thank you for what you do!
More power to you. I wrote a similar website for 4 years, putting in 10-20 hours a week on top of my day job making sure I wrote what I needed to do, that readers got replies and that the server/ads/whatever were looked after. All I came out with, literally, was a tshirt.
I’m not Pacific NW resisdent (hell, not even resident in North America) so USSMariner is the primary way I keep up with what’s going on with the Mariners. Keep going as you are, you’ve managed for 5 years without upsetting more than the occasional random person so don’t stop
This is one of only a few sites I check on daily. You guys have done an amazing job here. I learn something new every time I log on.
One could certainly make an argument for charging for the content here, but I strongly feel that Internet content should be free, if you want to charge for a curtain bit of writing publish it, but the internet should be a resource available to all. Putting a price on it is going to limit the impact your writing has on the general fan who navigates here once a month or follows a link from ESPN.
Ideally we would all realize the value of what you offer and be willing to donate some money to support something we love. I have no problem with you guys asking for donations more often, or promoting your other writing. In fact, this reminds me, I STILL need to buy that book. Sorry Derek, I will get on that….
Derek,
I’ve been a frequent visitor and infrequent poster here for about 2 years now. I visit several times a day, and it is my main source for information regarding the Mariners. That is my main reason for coming here. The quality of the main posts here (not the comments, mind) is far and above what I have been able to find elsewhere. As for the replies, let me say that generally I do not read them. I frequently find the signal to noise ratio to high to make it worthwhile to me.
As far as what I want from USSM going forward. I’m really not sure. Things aren’t perfect here (troll posts, etc), but then again since he Moderators have been introduced, I’m not sure what else can be done. USSM does as well in keeping things coherent and on topic as most of the other Message boards that I frequent. I think things are on the right track here. I hope USSM is around for a good long time.
Cheers!
How to solve the comments problem and start turning a little profit? Easy. Keep the site free, but charge a certain (small) monthly fee for unlimited comment posting. You’ll get rid of the drive bys, and you will increase the quality of the comments.
If you really wanted to spice things up, you could, at some point in the future, then offer free membership to commenters who consistently add to the discussion. Make it something you earn (publicly) and you’ll see things get better here in a real hurry.
I was introduced to USSM in 2003 as I was undergoing my first go around with cancer. It brought smiles, tears and inspiration that was much appreciated. I have brought little to the table in comments but have enjoyed Jason, Jeff and especially you and Dave with your research based insights. My love affair with baseball begain in the late 50’s, freezing my but off in Candlestick park. As i grew older I watched in dismay some the moves made by that once great organization including Willie Mays becoming a Met. I can’t help but wonder if some of your discouragement comes from the equally unbelieveable moves the organization has made in recent years. USSM is a daily read for me and for a while was my homepage. You and Dave have been a constant for me, in the midst of a second bout with cancer and a disabling auto accident. I haven’t been able to attend a game in two years but I never miss looking for your “spot on” comments. I too got Cheater’s Guide, and while it isn’t my favorite baseball book, it’s in the top ten,(Ball Four is still #1). I wish I could support you (two) and your site but I have a fouth child still in collage and since I was forced on disability that became a monumental challenge. Keep the stellar conributions coming… please! You and Dave are points of light in my little world and I would miss you greatly were you to go quietly into that great night.
I. Glenn Petersen, Long Beach, Wa.
Also (duh), you guys have done an awesome, awesome job here for five years.
And lets not forget, USSM readers, that these five years have NOT been the easiest for Mariners fans. In fact, I love this team, but I can honestly say that my interest in this team could have easily waned somewhat if it wasn’t for the contributions of Dave, Derek and co.
I grew up loving (LOVING) the Sonics, but once you move from Seattle, it’s hard to stay as in touch with your teams unless there is a compelling reason to do so. I just don’t follow the Sonics at all anymore, but I’ve stuck with these frustrating, strangely unlovable Mariners for these past few years, and again I have to thank the USSM team for helping me do so.
Great work guys.
This is not only my favorite baseball blog, it’s my favorite blog. Your posts are both well reasoned and well written, the comments are orders of magnitude better than comments on an average blog and your moderation is the best I’ve ever seen. Honestly, I’ve become a huge fan of your moderation – it’s both effective and hugely entertaining to read. I tell my (completely not interested in baseball) friends to read USS Mariner for the moderation. Have I gone on enough about how good the moderation is here? The volunteer mods are also awesome.
Your analysis is always fun to read and you do a good job of teaching the basis of your analyses. Really, how could I ask for more from you? Just don’t go away. Please.
I want nothing more from this blog than what it already is. I mean, yeah, if you wanted to post twice or eight times the content you’re currently putting up, I wouldn’t complain, but you post enough to make me happy right now.
Don’t be afraid or ashamed to ask for money, it is called capitalism and the American way. You might find that offering free web content might get you broke and disgruntled, kinda like offering free health care. For those that complain about paying for a service, well there is always going to be red-diaper-doper-babies.
I’ve read this blog for 4-5 years, and I’d say you guys are doing a fantastic job of raising the level of discourse on baseball and the Mariners. I’ve given money only a couple of times, but if I weren’t so broke you guys would certainly be deserving of much more.
Keep the faith, and keep up the great work.
I don’t think charging for comment privileges would be a great idea. Some people already thing they have the “right” to say anything; just imagine what the howls would be like if they were paying to comment and the comment got moderated.
Derek, I don’t want anything different than what you guys are doing, except that whatever it takes to make some money off it or make it easier for you to do, I am for it.
I’ve been a nearly daily visitor for several years and I’ve only posted 2 or 3 messages over that time. And just as others have expressed, I am a dislocated Seattleite who depends upon you in order to maintain my connection to the team – the first professional team I ever saw in person (except for maybe the Sounders) when I went to see the likes of Al Cowens, Todd Cruz, Orlando Mercado, Dave Henderson and the crew of the original U.S.S. Mariner out there in center field.
Not only have you allowed me to stay connected to my favorite team in all sports and to the city that I love, you have taught me more about pro baseball in the past few years than I learned in 30+ years before I became a reader.
I think a $10/month fee to be a poster is fair. But how do you get money out of those of us who don’t post? I’d pay $20/year just to access the site and read the content. I know the content is worth more than that but I also don’t have the income to pay what it’s really worth.
Two words: Thank you.
We come by, we read great content for free. As far as I’m concerned, that’s enough. We’ll keep coming to USSM events and enjoying the chance to talk with you guys. It makes baseball a little more fun every day.
Re: 32 — scraps makes a good point but I think there is an easy way around that. Paying members could simply be required to agree to certain rules when they sign up.
#28
“I grew up loving (LOVING) the Sonics, but once you move from Seattle, it’s hard to stay as in touch with your teams unless there is a compelling reason to do so. I just don’t follow the Sonics at all anymore, but I’ve stuck with these frustrating, strangely unlovable Mariners for these past few years, and again I have to thank the USSM team for helping me do so.”
My thoughts and experience exactly. Again, Thank you USSM.
Well as long as the howlers get moderated than we don’t have to hear them. Honestly, a Term of Service agreement and comment writing guidelines is not overbearing. What really sets USSM apart for all other blogs are your moderators. I enjoy the work done over at Lookout Landing and the insight from Geoff Baker, but their blogs are filled with vulgar and annoying pre-pubescent useless comments. Even the big sites like MSNBC and CNN don’t moderate as well as USSM. I love this site for the intelligence and structure that Dave and Derek have demanded. Keep it up.
I like the concept of paying for commenting ability however the egalitarian in me believes that will turn those that dissent and push alternative opinion away.
I know that the dissenter opinion isn’t always ideal in thought nor presentation, but it is still nice to have alternative thought presented. Sometimes I see this site as a little too much of people patting each other on the back for agreeing with the authors. I believe it was Jefferson that said “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”
For the USSM to remain critical in thought, it needs those alternative perspectives to permeate through from time to time. I do see some of the commenter statements, even at times moderator comments, to be a bit smug when someone stumbles into the site and states an unfounded, unsupported opinion. (Or spells poorly. Or doesn’t capitalize effectively). We know the level of discourse anticipated, but often the tone in which the expectations are explained is often less than polite and dignified. I wish there was more of a patient, teaching tone. Graham, no offense, is one I see this from more than I would like. My thought, when you are a mod, is you need to be even more polite and patient than usual.
The tone and content of these conversations can tend to lead to aggressiveness and defensiveness by the new party, which leads to a lack of positive discourse and more negativity toward the poster. Could it be worse? Certainly. Look at the Times blog. Could it be more civil and less condescending? Absolutely! I wish the moderators would act as so. I once heard Michael Jordan say he always played every moment of every game hard, because he knew there could be someone who has never seen him play before and never will again up in the stands. If those who post dissenting but unsupported thought were treated like they had never read the site and have not been introduced to logical argument before, perhaps they could be better educated, instead of feeling merely attacked. Just a thought, and maybe I’m hypersensitive on that one from moderating a corporate company driven message board and being a former teacher trying to educate the masses.
As for pay-for-comments or reading body, you will lose me as a reader, just as ESPN has by making so much of their content “Insider.” I move on, and I am certain I wont be the only one. No offense, but I make squat and have debt up the arse. I don’t pay for net content, I read what’s free. I miss Peter Gammons, but I’ve found other reads at other places that are ESPN’s direct competitors. Come to think of it, I rarely watch the ESPN flagship SportsCenter either. I believe this is because ESPN figured they were so big they could make enough money while alienating their original fan base. So be it. Turning too corporate leads to such results. But Derek, try to avoid that avenue. Part of the joy of your site is that despite its increasing size, it is still “small” in that there is a definite community here.
If you took away my commenting ability by making it pay-to-comment, that’s fine. I understand. Though again I do think it would limit the perspectives provided, and I think that would be too bad.
Well, excellent post, and thank you for the forum. Keep up the great work.
Thanks to you both Derek and Dave, for all the great work here. An idea for how to reduce your workload may be to bring in other “guest” authors. (The challenge with doing this is keeping up the high quality of the posts here. I have no solution to that problem, but would not want to see a drop in quality.) Some possibilities:
-When we start a series, invite an opposing team blogger to post a series or game preview
-If you have a topic that is worth writing, ask your readership if someone wants to tackle it? With 6000 readers, USSM has a wealth of expertise to tap into.
-Maybe an off-season post could include a “best Mariner moment” including local sport personalities or out of town sports writers? Ok, maybe not.
Just some thoughts. I know that USSM posts are not a public forum, but this may ease some of the burden.
(I would also support any attempt at a fee-based platform.)
Like some others have posted above I don’t comment much (or ever) but thoroughly enjoy the site — through ussmariner I’ve also found numerous other great sites. Keep up the exceptional work.
As for the money issue, do whatever you need to do but switching over to a monthly fee might not be the best solution. Once people start paying, even if its just $3/month, they will feel more of a right to complain. I’m all for buying a few brews, and would prefer that type of fundraising, but I’ll be hanging around either way.
Thanks for the great work guys, it makes being a Mariner fan in NYC bearable!
I would take two approaches:
1) You are simply leaving money on the table by not pursuing advertising options. Did people stop using Google when they launched Ad Words? Nope. Have people stopped watching online videos because there are now ads in there? Nope. Some people love to complain about advertising, but the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of all users of the internet are willing to trade advertising for free content. Whether the are consciously making that trade off or not, their actions have proven that they understand there is a cost for all content and that they are willing to pay for it in some form or another. Done right this can be something that helps the site out in a big way.
2) Charging a small membership fee to post comments, while theoretically 100% against the core beliefs of most sites like this, would eliminate the drive-by posters while sitll allowing your site to be freely accessible and enjoyed by the mainstream. This would serve three goals: a) decreasing your stress levels b) maintaining your ability to promote your side gigs and incredbile baseball isnights to a wide audience and c) it would decrease the number of posters by some factor (depending on your new price point) which will ultimately cut down on your infrastrcuture costs.
Of course doing either of these would be a lot more work and may require more work to maintain, but at some point you have to start thinking of this more like a business and less like a charity.
You guys have done an amazing job. Keep it up.
Good Ship Mariner,
To echo the sentiments of so many of the previous posters here, this site is a phenomenal resource, which I appreciate very much.
I’ve been lurking for almost 4 years now, I read everyday but have only posted 1 or 2 times. Having to pay to read would break my heart, and depending on the cost might price me over to LL (btw: I really appreciate your no tolerance approach to language, it’s nice to read intelligent post w/o f-bombs)
You could take the ESPN Insider, Baseball prospectus approach, where you have a portion of the site be free and you have other articles and extras that be privileged access, that could help you to turn a small profit.
Here’s my questions to you then, after making you read all that: what do you want from USSM in the future? What can we give? How do we continue to make progress in our goal of helping build Mariner fandom, and of supporting it as one of the smartest and best in baseball?
It’s amazing that after providing the best Mariners content anywhere for the price of $0, you are asking what you can do for us. I’ll give you my opinion–my favorite posts are those on organizational philosophies and implementation, prospect development, and in-game strategies (to name three)–but the vast majority of posts on this site are interesting to me.
I would rather know what we can do to help out. I’ve donated in the past, but money-raising on a donations basis may not be ultimately effective enough. If you wanted to leave the blog generally open to the public (for viewing) but make a bit more cash, you could have subscription and non-subscription posts, sort of like BP does. Some of the content could be viewable and commentable by everyone, and some to those of us that buy the subscription. I’m surprised that you have held off this long without reducing the quality and quantity of posts, some of which probably take many hours to research and write.
Maybe you guys should think about what it would take to make USSMariner more fun for you.
Would it be less of a hand in the moderation of the site? Maybe get a few more moderators, and make sure they patrol the game threads.
Would it be making more money? Maybe you’ve done this, but really do some research into what it would it would take (and what you could make) with joining an ad network, running Adsense, selling banner space, etc. I sure there are some ways to make money on a blog like this. Maybe do a weekly book review, or a weekly product review, or… I don’t know.
What I want from USSM in the future is more of the same. I love this site.
I thought the pimpage of The Cheater’s Guide was remarkably restrained, especially when you consider the amount of scuttle it was getting on local and national media. Around the time of K-Rod pics of him maybe doctoring the ball, it seemed like I heard more about the book on ESPN than I did on this site.
As far as paid membership, I can’t say I’d sign up. I’m a young career guy with a family and a mortgage and the economy is … Not good. I already have a hard time justifying the amount of time I spend on the M’s to the missus. If she started seeing charges for a blog relating to such it may be the straw that broke my marriage’s back.
That said, if I knew my access was restricted so you guys could do this full-time I would make my peace with that. I’d just try to catch Dave on KJR (if they ever actually have him on again) and tell people on Baker’s blog that they’re morons.
This is the best blog on baseball. Not on the Mariners, on baseball. I don’t want anything about it to change.
As a new reader (I discovered USSM about 3 months ago), here’s my two cents:
I like the look of this blog in terms of the limited ad content. I know it’s only my own aesthetic taste speaking, but I don’t think it would look good with giant banner ads everywhere.
Based on the quality of content that I’ve read so far, I would gladly pay a small, reasonable membership fee for viewing and/or commenting.
And you mentioned that selling swag didn’t really work out for you guys in the past, but I for one would love to have a USSM shirt to wear to games!
The same thing you’ve been doing for the last 5 years would be great. Seriously thank you for this place.
Readers, if you don’t Derek’s book get it. It is a really good read.
I’ve visited USSM almost every day for the last 4-5 years, though I’ve rarely commented. Just wanted to say THANK YOU, sincerely. You guys write the smartest baseball analysis I’ve found, and this is probably my favorite site on the web. I hope USSM is around for a long time. If you ever start charging for your content, I can’t imagine not buying it.
I think this site is awesome, I check it daily. It is the first site I check in the morning or anytime I get back from a class or where ever I maybe. It even inspired me to write a few papers and speech over the last semester.
I think a venture back into the merchandising would be the way to go. Show of hands, who wouldn’t wear a shirt with Gritty Willie riding a My Little Pony? I am down for one! You could run it cheap and on the site until it possibly picked up some steam and then you can upgrade as you see fit.
For now offer a few different designs on a sidebar. Have a USSM apparel email people can send an order into. Hopefully someone on this site knows a screen printer (I might have a contact or two) and hopefully make a deal that will keep the prints cheap. Even if we had to wait an extra week or two because of inefficiency in the shipping process I don’t think it would deter many buyers. I wasn’t around to see the first attempt at merchandise so maybe I am just repeating. Also maybe a membership/shirt deal?
Whatever path you take I am sure their are people willing to help you along your venture to keep this site the best on the internet. With a personal network the size of USSM there is no reason to not pull it off.
Graham, no offense, is one I see this from more than I would like.
None taken. I tend to only post here when I’m irritated, so it’s hardly surprising that I seem more scathing than not. Sorry if that bothers you.
To be a little mouthy and speak for the volunteer mod group as a whole (Graham, Mike, etc, feel free to jump in with your thoughts):
There is one reason, and one reason alone, that I volunteered to be a mod, and it has nothing to do with finding it fun to delete people’s posts (I don’t and I actually feel bad about it nearly every time), or being able to exercise my lust for minor power-mongering (okay, maybe a little).
I wanted to help with this site for exactly the reasons that Derek talks about in this post; when Dave and Derek are not having fun with this site, they are naturally going to feel less motivated to spend time creating content for all of us. And when that happens, we ALL lose, even the people who might not agree with every moderation decision made.
I try really hard to be as even-handed as I can when dealing with comments, and I hope that people overall feel that the addition of the volunteer mods was the right move to make.
I don’t expect people to agree with every comment editing/deletion (especially those whose comments are edited/deleted), but as long as you all understand WHY it is that we do what we do, and that we try really hard to be as fair as we can, I’m happy.
Are we a little snarky sometimes in the comments we make? Sure, because that’s how it’s always kindof been done here, and it feels right to continue that same “feel”. It’s almost never meant to be mean-spirited though, but more along the lines of your buddies giving you a hard time.
And really, overall, this has been a lot easier than I thought it’d be, and the regular commenters here as a whole have really stepped up their game. Most of the people whose comments we have to edit or delete are from drive-by posters who really have no interest in long-term contribution to this site, or people who start off shrieking about how Mike Morse is the best player ever (decided to pick on someone other than Bloomquist for once) but slowly come around because they’re willing to keep an open mind and end up becoming good posters and thus their comments don’t get nuked.
So, thank you to all of you for trying really hard to keep the conversation elevated here; I can’t imagine trying to moderate, say, the P-I blog; I’d quit within a week.
And thank you, Dave and Derek, for all the work you do keeping this place going and giving us awesome posts again and again. The comment threads wouldn’t even exist if we didn’t have your content as a starting point, and I think people forget that sometimes.
Here’s my advice:
- Keep doing what you’re doing, as far as content goes.
- Don’t feel like you’re “compromising” by asking for money or volunteers or other assistance. 99% of the people here understand what’s going on, and won’t be offended if you ask. We also know how to ignore such requests, whether in the form of banner ads, buy a beer links, etc., if we want to. Pretend you’re NPR. There is no shame in asking for donations or for people to buy swag or whatever if you have a good product (which you do).
- Ignore folks who bitch about ridiculous things. I’m sure that it’s hard to do, but you’ve got to do it. Just ignore them. Don’t be snippy or rude or dickish. Just ignore. Or have a canned response that says: “I respectfully disagree with your opinion on that subject.” My only complaint about the content of the site is that occasionally petty author/commenter feuds break out. They just leave a bad taste. Let the other commenters fight the fight for you, and stay out of the fray.
I’ve been reading ussm for just about as long as it has existed. I don’t post much at all, as it makes me too invested in the team – which puts me in a bad mood. I think that is part of your issue Derek, the team is built really badly and not much fun to write about at the level you guys do (I’m assuming). I could really hear the frustration in the tone of Dave’s writing in the off-season. It sounded like he was freaking out over the trade, which is very understandable knowing how invested in the team you and Dave are.
Personally, as far as things to change, I liked it quite a bit when you had up to 4 people posting. It seemed like you got a sense of community out of it that was pretty fun – I definitely enjoyed it. Also, I’d charge a couple bucks per month to post. If it’s not worth someone to go though the hassle of an online payment, they’re probably not adding a ton to the conversation.
I’m glad Dave has another outlet right now, he really seems to be taking the way the team is built hard. I hope at some point we can all say – I love it, but it’s only baseball.
I also hope that someday soon ownership will hire a quality gm, and things will again be exciting for y’all to write about.
If the volume of negative comments makes writing for USSM less fun, I would recommend you consider shutting down commenting (or maybe limiting commenting on a post to 24 hours to cut down on the volume). A few comments add to the quality of the topic but most are simply noise.
Thank you for all you do, I appreciate this site and read it religiously every day.
I don’t think I’d change very much even if I could. I love the analysis you guys do, and I love being able to read and/or converse with people who care about baseball in the detail that I do. I’ve been coming here since I discovered it in the 2004 season. And ussmariner.com is the one thing I never want to hear in my employee review.
I have noticed the number of fly by posters increasing the background noise. I understand how much it sucks for everyone, because as the site becomes more popular, the hassle increases without any added benefit. Plus we have the Penny Arcade Theory of the Internet to contend with.
I try to do my part to chip back in. I did by schwag in the past (it’s tough to wear the gay paleontologist shirt anymore though), but I know that the overhead on that stuff makes low volume selling impossible. If you were to have a fundraiser once a year, I’d be willing to chip in on that. Similar to KEXP without the constant begging. Ask for $10, and maybe give out a nice sticker or something? I don’t know if you’d make enough for it to be worth your while, but I’d pay.
You guys really are the best baseball blog on the internet. A serious hole in my life would open up if you guys disappeared. If you ever need anything, I’ll do all that I can to help.
damn it, I forgot the close link tab. [I hope I fixed it the way you'd intended]
The writers of this blog are fine. The commenters that chime in need to tone it down. Supporters of the blog sometimes take the points therein too far, bordering on a lynch-mob mentality. And nothing’s worse than going to other blogs and seeing USSM arguments repeated like mantras and eventually mangled into something sinister like a bad game of telephone.
I think that’s where the animosity comes in, and it’s misplaced animosity. People think you’re the problem, when really it’s your commenters that overstate and eventually misstate your arguments in the commentary and on other blogs.
I only read three blogs regularly, and this is one of them (the other two are about basketball). I don’t have any suggestions of what to do, but I do have a suggestion of what not to do. I don’t mean to put LookoutLanding.com down, but I prefer to read this site much much more than LL: easier-to-read-fonts, and maybe 1/5 of the number of posts (counting comments) but with, I don’t know three times as much content. So a signal-to-noise ratio that’s 15 times higher! I love the WPA graphs that LL has, but other than that I only go there when you guys point out a good article that’s been posted there.
I stopped reading BaseballPrimer.com when it switched to the unreadable BaseballThinkFactory.com, and only go to BaseballProspectus.com for occasional stats and to track their bogus playoff odds estimates (although I think they’ve fine tuned them and may finally have a good algorithm now).
So it’s not much of suggestion, but it IS the reason I come here and don’t regularly visit other baseball sites: keep doing what you guys do, and don’t do what those other sites do.
Oh, I could do with a little less snark by authors and commenters but that’s a quibble.
Charge money. Simple as that. Decide what you need to keep this thing afloat, at a minimum, and start charging your 6000 users that amount per year. If it’s under $10 a year I’m sure you’ll keep us all.
Also another way to make money might be host more USSM functions. I do not live in Seattle but I believe most people on this site do, or Washington. Host a fund raiser softball tournament or just a day out to the games. I am sure people wouldn’t mind throwing in a few extra bucks to get together with a bunch of USSM followers and watch the Rainier’s or M’s.
DMZ says:
“How do we continue to make progress in our goal of helping build Mariner fandom, and of supporting it as one of the smartest and best in baseball?”
Ivan says:
Just keep doing what you’re doing, the way you are doing it. You guys are the best, and never forget it.
Oh I should add that I think the volunteer mods are doing a very good job. Hopefully they have reduced the workload; and they have served the role of not being too visible (at least, not any more so than when you were doing the moderating yourselves) while keeping the discourse from degenerating.
I read this site daily but haven’t commented in a few years. I love this site and hope you guys do whatever you feel you need to in order to keep producing the material you do.
I think this is a really, really good point, and one that I wish people would keep more in mind when they post, particularly when the post is “you guys are so negative, why do you hate the Mariners?”
Right now? This team is poorly constructed and poorly run. I don’t just flat-out make pronouncements like that very often, but there is TONS of evidence to back it up, and I’m not sure how anyone could disagree.
So it’s frustrating to be even a FAN of a team in the current state that the Mariners are in, much less be as devoted with their time and effort as Dave and Derek are.
In other words, cut them some slack. They’re spending huge gobs of time and effort analyzing a team that frankly isn’t very fun to analyze right now. We’d all love to be able to spend time praising the Mariners for all the awesome things they do, but the fact is that they just don’t do very many awesome things.
If that changes, the tone of this site will change, but asking for the tone of the site to change FIRST would require the authors to put on blinders and would make this site a lot less valuable and interesting than it is.
I can’t believe you dumped JMB like you would an aging middle reliever. I’d contribute if only you brought him back on a regular basis.
What we need is MORE COWBELL!
But seriously, the column was about not asking for donations and how you aren’t making money on the site; but was followed by how can you support the M’s community and give readers what they want. They don’t completely go together.
What I would like to see from USSM is what I’ve been seeing – intelligent, insightful, and articulate analysis of the M’s roster, trades, games, and management. It’s why I come here every day (and multiple times at that). It’s hard to improve upon perfection.
As for making money.
- you wrote the book, you guys write the blog. Having a link is NOT a bad thing. Mentioning your work is not a bad thing.
- Ads, you could have more without messing things up. I think that’s what most web comics do too. Penny Arcade another Pacific North West online entity has 2 on their page, with a “media kit” link. It’s not tacky at all.
- a store COULD be good, but you have to have something that really sets you a part. Merchandise with a “hook”.
. Example: Shirt that says, “USS Mariner” = boring.
. Example 2: Shirt that says, “USS Mariner” with a reply box & button stating – “this comment is free of spelling errors” = humorous.
. Example 3: “USS Mariner/Long Live the King” Again, better than just the name.
The stuff has to have something that represents what USSM stands for, but in a way that makes people WANT to wear it and show it off. Heck, even make fun of yourself some – if people say you’re snarky, then paly up to it on a T. (USSM: We support
SNARKSABR)Then you can just have up a little “store” button; and people aren’t “donating”, but “buying in”. They are getting a product, wearing it, walking around with it as living bulletin boards.
(honestly, I would love a witty USSM Tshirt)
You guys do an amazing job here and I really take great enjoyment out of reading your thoughts, comments, and opinions everyday. The only thing I want from USSM in the future is a T-shirt. I know you said you tried swag, but let me tell you, if you guys had a nice shirt, I would definitely buy one. Especially if you’d had several cool or clever ones (perhaps one that is a commentary on how usless ERA is?). I also wanted to say that I’m a graphic designer and illustrator by trade and if you guys ever need anything for your websites or whatever, I completely volunteer.
Great job guys. Keep it up.
Derek —
I usually lurk on these threads, only commenting when I feel like I have something useful to add to the discussion (which is rarely), but I would also like to suggest bringing back some of the USS Mariner swag. My only caveat would be that if it’s made cheap, people won’t likely buy it. Even though it may cost some money, have the shirts or sweatshirts or whatever made on something like American Apparel clothing. If it is of a little higher quality than a something like a soft ball shirt, perhaps more people would pay money for it. I know I would.
Also, I think the monthly fee for viewing comments is a great idea. Anything to help keep this job, volunteer or not, fresh for you and Dave and even the volunteer mods — I don’t think we as regular readers here should forget about rewarding them — even though they volunteered for it, they deserve to have some appreciation thrown their way whether it be monetary compensation or free swag.
Keep up the great work. This is my favorite sports site (sorry Lookout Landing, hehe), and it’s the first thing I check at work every morning after checking my email.
It’s one thing for everyone to say ‘yeah I’d pitch in 20 bucks’, but if you implemented something simple like 10/month fee for viewing some of the content on this site like some of the bigger posts you and Dave put a lot of time into (I am thinking statistical breakdowns, fangraph stuff, season previews, trade stuff, etc.) you could create a premium content part of the blog and keep the game threads free for those who wish to follow the game via the thread.
Setting up a premium part of the site might not be a bad way of going about things here, that way you guys feel like (even though you enjoy the warm fuzzies we all give you) you are wasting time or aren’t being properly compensated for the wonderful in depth analytical posts we have come to associate USS Mariner with.
So…swag and premium content is the way I would go, that’s what I would like to see. I would even go as far as saying that I would get married in my brand new USS Mariner T-shirt!
Okay…maybe not…but still…I would purchase swag!
Keep it up Derek, Dave, and the mods! We are all smarter for having this web site around.
that was my thought, too (and I don’t think it was just the last weeks worth of begging on KUOW).
If you don’t want to have an annual beg-a-thon, I’d be happy with a sidebar Amazon money button (if such a thing is possible) that could be punched on occasion, and I have been thinking for a while that it was time for a return of the USSM cafepress page.
having been part of the snarking for the last decade or so, to me it seems part of normal conversation. Perhaps I am inured, however
What could you do to make the site more enjoyable? Find a way of reversing the off season trade. I expect it to be done by tomorrow!
Seriously, I do think the frustration of being a M’s fan is going to spill over here. If this site had existed in 2001, I’m willing to predict that game threads would have been filled with bunnies and kittens.
I agree with dlb. You guys are missing out on generating virtually free revenue by not pursuing ads more aggressively. If you charge for the site you’ll find that the loss in readership will not make up for the revenue gain. There’s a reason why more sites are dropping pay for content and moving to ad generated revenue.
Have you given any thought to rejiggering the site so that things like game day threads are set up more in forums instead of intermixed with the author written content? I think you guys have shifted into serving 2 audiences here. Those that want to join a community that talks about the M’s (game day threads, roster construction, steroids) and those that want to read the excellent insightful analysis provided by the authors. You may want to think about cleaving the site to serve the 2 audiences and target the ads appropriately. Plaster the discussion forums with ads and keep the author written content clean and clear.
Personally I would not sign up if you charged for content. I think that model is broken.
Dave and DMZ,
You guys do a fantastic job. Keep it up. I found the site in January as I decided I was going to stay in the PacNW for a while and needed to get caught up on M’s baseball.
Mods,
I love the work you guys do because it keeps the site clean, and not ridiculous. I’m a frequent reader over at Fark, and while you guys don’t have the same number of page views (6k vs 6m) I appreciate the threads and the brilliant posters who post in them here much more than over there.
That said, there is no way I will pay for content. The work you guys do is great, but I can’t convince myself its worth it. Donations, possibly. More ads, definitely.
Keep up the great work.
Thoughtful and thought-provoking post, Derek. My two-cents:
1. Keep doing what you are doing content-wise.
2. Don’t apologize for efforts to keep USSM a civil place that is moderately uncomfortable for thread trolls.
3. Please ask us to support in whatever way will keep this being fun for you all. We may not all support in the same way every time, but you’ll get a chunk of us to, and overall I am sure we can pool different talents to fill the needs USSM may have at a given time. It’s one thing to ask for donations, but I think you’ll see the most effective fund-raising center around a specific need or plan. If I know I am giving to meet “x” operational cost, or for a new server, or some other specific goal, I am more likely to give because I know there is a need I am helping to fill.
4. Don’t take comments from jerks and idiots to heart. Some of us vocally come to the defense of the authors when we can. Many more USSM-supporters are silent, hoping idiots will just go away. Most of us never see the moronic emails that come your way, and so don’t know the extent of the stupidity. But communities like this help keep the members in check. High standards mean something and I, for one, am glad you all strive for that. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who call a site worthless and then spend countless hours on that site arguing with the authors or other commenters. Some people are simply contrarian, and I have yet to find a good blog without this very same problem. A lot of other people simply are saying what they believe (even if it is completely wrong), and this site serves an important function in raising the fan IQ for the baseball fan.
5. More swag. If it is good, we’ll buy it. I don’t think I was actively checking the blog last time something was put out there. If it’s a good t-shirt or whatever I’ll buy.
6. Self-promote away. I find it useful to see your recommendations of other works/authors and to find where we can read other things you all have written. Baseball has a much deeper analytical element than most other sports (though I read an article about Beane’s attempt to develop a deeper statistical analysis in soccer – yeesh) and fans who enjoy that stuff should be seeking a continual education.
Thanks for all you guys do. It’s thankless, frustrating, bang-your-head-against-the-wall kind of stuff, and most of us love every bit of the output and content (whether we agree with the particular point or not). The day you or Dave say you’ve had enough is going to be a very sad one indeed.
Cheers.
I may be just an idiot and unable to navigate this site but I do have one request for the future…
Is it possible to provide a better archive system? I am a fairly new reader(about 6 months) and I would love to go back and read your writing on Mariner moves in the past.
Again, these archives may already exist so I apologize (in advance) if this is the case.
I’ve been a loyal reader since 2003 when I was living in NY, watching the M’s on my satellite tv baseball package, and craving Seattle baseball. This sight has improved my sense of baseball community and my appreciation of “what makes baseball work”. I’m not much for t-shirts or sweatshirts or bumper stickers, but I bought the book and bought the authors a beer, and am one of the 6,000 visitors, every day.
What do I want from USSM in the future? First, keep it up. For me 99% of the value of this site is author generated (sorry posters!). So, definitely keep that up.
Second, I’d love if the format of the site had a better layout when I’m reading it on my phone while feeding the baby at 3am. So, better mobile format would be much appreciated, but it’s a far distant second to continued site operation.
Really, there is no “third” but I’m going to keep going, mostly so that I could echo the “charge for it” sentiment represented here. I’m not a big fan of charging to read the posts or articles – I think a big part of the value here is in anyone’s ability to tune in and improve their baseball knowledge. Charging for front page content could alienate the casual reader, thus limiting site growth.
Personally I’d say “just charge to comment” … on a per comment basis for those that comment infrequently (25-cents a pop?) or a flat rate for you power users ($5/month?).
Also, I vote for a perma-link “buy the authors a refreshing beer” on the sidebar.
thanks and keep it up!
First, thanks.
Second, I have two tickets (good seats) for May 10th vs the Chisox if you want them (in other words, Thanks).
Third, maybe you could set up a Kangaroo Court (Buhner as the judge?), and fine people a buck for misspelling player’s (or broadcaster’s) names. Think of how much money Sexson would make you guys. The entire broadcast crew except for Blowers would probably make a monthly car payment. And if the M’s signed Mark Gru.., ah Gurz, um, Grudzielanek, you could retire.
Seriously, as far as money goes, if you promote other money making projects on the site, I am fine, way more than fine, with that. I’m not sure that advertising support would ever really work out for USSM. Advertising is good at monetizing breadth, but not depth (hence, American Idol comes back for a another season and Firefly is cancelled). USSM is a definitely a depth site. I’d be willing to shell out a few bucks a month for a subscription (maybe commenting requires a subscription? That might eliminate some of the drive-bys, but it could also cut off new blood, which would be unfortunate).
For content, I can’t think of anything really to change. Game threads plus occasional analysis of the situation, or roster moves, and the offseason projections, plans, and updates are what I come here for. I suspect that the evolution of defensive metrics will be one of the big growth areas for baseball research, and helping guide Mariner fandom through that would be a great thing for somebody (cough cough) to do. Pitch F/X should lead to something worthwhile too, and it seems like something Dave is interested in. There ought to be stuff to be mined there.
Have you ever thought of a USSM Anthology? Collect the best analytical posts and package them up in a book?
I’ll second all of what M’s Fan in CO said.
I was terrified as I read that post that you were going to announce the end of USSM at the bottom, or at least your own retirement. Thanks for not doing that.
I’ve been reading USSM since you wrote for BP (I remember once I was the second most frequent commenter after Corco), and the thing that has lowered the quality of the site, for you more than for us, has been the constant fights with the commenters. I can see you and Dave (more Dave, really) getting frustrated with the inane battles you have to fight with the commenters, and I often look back fondly at the days when USSM didn’t accept comments.
What do I look for? I look for top-flight Mariners analysis. If I want a community I can talk to, I can go to LL for that. But what you guys do best is right really smart articles, and that’s what I want. If you have to turn off comments to do that (in fact, I might prefer it that way), do it.
“Hi Larry, long time listener, first time caller…” or something like that. I’ve followed USSM faithfully for 3 or 4 years, bought the hoodie sweatshirt (grey was a poor choice on my part; offer a darker color and I’ll buy another one), bought the book, don’t regret any of it. I don’t post often because you guys are waaaay smarter than I am and I don’t have much of value to add. I really wish I could have attendecd one of the USSM gatherings but the commute from Winnipeg makes it impractical and I’m only back in Seattle for about 2 weeks a year.
Please keep up the good work, please put up a PayPal button, and please remember the slogan of the folks over at The Straight Dope: “Fighting Ignorance Since 1973 (It’s taking longer than we thought)”. The glorious day when fans believe more in the statistical truth of things than in the warm fuzzies they get when a local kid steps on to the home squad’s big-league diamond may never come, but it’s worth working for.
76 – An anthology is a brilliant idea. I’d buy one.
Incidentally, does that Amazon Honor System button on the 2006 posts still work?
I have been coming to this site for as long as I can remember (I gues that would be 5 years!), so I definitely would like to see it continue. I would be up for another donation drive like you had for the server, but I can’t see myself paying for monthly content (alright, MAYBE I could since I love this site so much).
Keep up the good work!
Also, can we please have a USSM gathering somewhere on the East Coast (Baltimore, NYC)?
Yo,
I’m probably blind and stupid, but while reading this I realized that I have been coasting and wanted to contribute a nominal amount (several beers worth).
I looked for a way to do it and must have missed it. If the link doesn’t already exist then having a prominent pitch for contributions on the left or right margin and a link would not reduce my enjoyment of the site at all.
I would give up my posting privileges rather than pay $5 or $20/mo, but I wouldn’t mind being emailed to the effect that I had not made a contribution for a year.
Thanks a lot for your work. I’ve enjoyed it.
Wow, 76….an anthology is a great idea. You guys should definitely do that.
I would be in favor of charging money to access the site, except that charging money closes off your readership, which itself is counterproductive to spreading your message, and leads to the sorts of closed-perspective problems we’ve seen with BP and other such sites.
One suggestion for the mods that would be more work in the short run but might improve the quality of feedback and reader participation over the long haul: don’t just moderate the illogical and poorly presented comments of those who disagree with you… but moderate the illogical and poorly presented comments of those who agree with you. The trolls who slam the site get hammered, but I find the loyal readers get a lot more leeway, which promotes the sometimes-mob mentality that results.
Such an approach will show an objective lack of bias and, if loyal readers know they can’t just throw up any asinine comment in agreement with you without being subject to the same hammer that’s dropped on the trolls, then over time the quality of commentary from your readers should improve, while helping to take a load off your server, and it will present a better image for the blog and its readership as a whole.
Thanks for all the kind words, everyone.
One thing I just want to throw out there – I’m not particularly interested in charging for content here. Even if it raised enough money to pay the bills, I like the fact that anyone can read everything we write. As long as Derek doesn’t throw me off the site, I’m probably going to vote against a subscription based USSM.
The FanGraphs gig is going to bring me a bit of money, so I’d love it if you all visited that site a lot and drove traffic through the roof. That’d be helpful. But Derek and I really aren’t in this for the money. We’re just not. It’d be an awesome benefit if we could figure out a way to turn this into a paying gig, but I’m not sure that’s possible without doing things we don’t want to do. So, we’ll see.
And don’t worry, we didn’t throw JMB off the bus. He’s just busy with real life.
I’ve been checking with this site almost everyday for over a year now, and just recently started posting. I would like to thank the authors and posters at this site for some of the most informed and intellectual conversation on baseball anywhere.
As far as revenues to keep the site running are concerned, merchandising is your best bet. I would purchase a shirt and hat.
I used to make part of my living writing pledge breaks for public TV. With that hideous disclosure out of the way, let me continue. I see nothing wrong with a twice-a-year pledge drive, maybe right before opening day and right after the World Series or the end of the regular season. You could offer premiums, too, just like public broadcasting does. Saturate the blog twice a year with fundraising efforts and then bask for the rest of the time.
And, thank you. A lot. I love this site.
The trolls who slam the site get hammered, but I find the loyal readers get a lot more leeway
While I try not to throw up worthless comments (that’s in the eye of the beholder, I suppose), I think a loyal reader who comments in a worthwhile fashion 99% of the time deserves more leeway than a troll who posts nothing but comments designed to irritate and annoy. I think Dave and Derek have said that they generally employ that standard – and even trolls don’t get into the moderation queue right away. I am not trying to nit-pick your suggestion, Gomez, but established commenters should get the benefit of the doubt until it is clear they’ve gone off the deep end, in my view. That doesn’t mean they should get a free pass for absolutely everything (some comments are, on their face, unacceptable), but for the more mundane errors, it makes sense to me to give a bit longer leash to the proven site member.
Hands down my favorite baseball site existing on the interwebs. Would happuly pay 20 bucks a month for membership/commenting. I was tuned on to this site about 5 months ago and have missed any donation opportunities but if something like that still exists i would love to do it
I have to be honest. I also was scared that Dave and DMZ were pulling the plug on the site.
Anyway, I’ll keep this brief.
Thanks Dave and DMZ for all the hard work and knowledge you’ve put into this website.
66 – Cracked me up man. I’ve got a fever!!!
Seriously, I’ve been a reader for a while now. I don’t comment much, mostly lurk. But I have to say, this is hands down, the best baseball blog on the world wide interweb. I read it every day, multiple times. This site has taught me so much about the game – you guys are my heroes. No joke. I’m a lonely M’s fan in SoCal, and having USSM as a source of news/discussion is priceless. And aside from the insightful and humorous content, the moderating is perhaps one of my favorite aspects of the site. It is extremely unusual and refreshing to read a discussion on a sports blog that (at least the majority of the time) is relevant, and is written by people possessing more than 3 brain cells a vocabulary consisting of variations of the f-bomb. Please don’t ever stop, and keep up the good work.
That being said, there are obviously a few things you could do to make this more rewarding.
#1 – Ignore the idiots. They will always be around, don’t let them bring you down. Either ignore them completely, or respond with civility, and they will go away.
#2 – My personal opinion is that the site content should be kept free. I think you would definitely lose more readership by moving to a pay-for-content model than is worth it. Paying for commenting privileges is a different story, and might be something to consider. I’m guessing alot of people are in my shoes though, (on a budget) so it would be best to keep the fee pretty moderate. ($20/yr or something) Another possibility would be to charge only for very limited and specific content – i.e. the Future Forty. Anything you want to do a couple times a year that we have an option of getting for $10 or so.
#3 – I think there are plenty of other ways to break even/make a buck without charging for content.
(a.) This is America, land of capitalism, don’t feel bad about promoting your book or other writings. I have to admit, I still haven’t bought your book (the budget thing) but I promise you I will. Maybe the more you plug it, the quicker I will get around to it.
(b.) Go ahead and get more ads. As long as they aren’t popping up in our face to annoy us, we don’t care.
(c.) Put up the “Buy the Author a Beer” button on every large post. Seriously, go for it. We appreciate your work, and the more you give us a chance to show our appreciation the better response you will get.
(d.) Do an annual fund raising drive. That’s not begging. Again, we appreciate the content and know that it takes time/money to keep it going. I think alot of people are like me, and would much more likely to make a voluntary donation, than be charged for content.
(e.) If anyone has a problem with the promotions/ads/donations, refer to #1.
86- I think merchandising is definitely worth exploring, but it has the potential to backfire if the interest doesn’t show up with money behind it. I agree with you though, I’d love to buy something USSMariner related.
As far as crappy comments go, maybe some of the pressure would ease on Dave and Derek if there was a way to employ community policing (maybe with a youtube-esque thumbs up/down option for people who are logged in to say what comments they found helpful or just plain stupid. Or some other option, there are a lot of ways to go about this). Most of regulars are sane enough to recognize what is crap, and letting them help moderate things might be a good idea.
I would pay a membership fee…I check in literally at least ten times a day for news, opinions, and analysis…as long as the price wasn’t outrageous, it would be worth the money to help out Dave and DMZ…
here’s hoping that means the move East went well, and he is cooking up a storm…
I generally don’t comment or read the comments, but I love this blog and have mentioned it multiple times on my own, much smaller site. Keep up the good work, gentlemen.
P.S. I bought you a beer once and I would do it again.
I’m going to second (third?) the idea of merchandise. I made fifty dollars from cafepress.com and I put absolutely 0 effort into either the products or marketing. You can obviously put a little more effort and I’m sure people here will help. You can probably even have an open design contest for fun.
Flesh eating ponies? That will sell. I have a “Gritty Bear” image I used on LL for WFB that would look pretty good on a shirt also. It wouldn’t be too hard and it would not eat up any/much expenses.
I’ve been an AVID reader and a seldom poster here for about 2.5 years. I LOVE this site! If just for the “Future Forty”! 3 years ago if someone wanted to talk about “FIP”, I’d have been totally in the dark. Thanks Guys! I really appreciate all you do.
Nothing good I can say about the site that hasn’t already been said, but I think I can add that I feel it’s important for the team’s front office to know that ticket buyers are evaluating their performance. This site provides/fosters/creates that kind of informed analysis, and it’s revolutionary.
My hope is that eventually the team has no choice but to embrace more modern evaluative methods. Bavasi’s instincts just aren’t cutting it for me, you know? Thanks to Dave and Derek for all their hard work.
Thank you guys, this is the site I read most on the internet. I keep it at the top of my RSS reader and especially look forward to the long, well-researched entries by Derek and Dave (stuff that I know takes a lot of time and energy).
My suggestion: keep the “buy the authors a beer” button on the home page. Also make it possible to buy more than one beer at a time.
After reading your post today (in horror as it sounded like you might be calling it quits) — I immediately went looking to buy you guys a couple cases. It took several minutes to find a beer button on an earlier post and then I couldn’t figure out how to buy more than one without making multiple transactions.
88. Encouraging that sort of bias is actually part of the problem and what I’m getting at.
You don’t want to fan the flames of trolls and detractors, and I think that’s the idea behind Derek posting about this conundrum in the first place… but stating or encouraging an active bias towards commenters, just because they’ve stated agreement with the writers, does just that.
First time poster, long time reader here.
I was just about to suggest cafepress also. It’s an easy way to go about making some extra money with very little effort. I’m sure there are plenty of people here with graphic experience (and if you can’t find any, I could help) who would happily volunteer their efforts to generate shirt/merchandise ideas.
The first place I visit is USSM. I recommend it to all of my Mariner fan friends. I’d pay $20 to $30 annually to join. Not that it isn’t worth more, it is. But I couldn’t justify the budget hit for more.
The one thing that would be nice is an edit button! (Two posts to illustrate the point).
Given some more thought… I have an alternate and more conventional idea, though it would involve a stronger mod filter than usual.
Screen every comment by every user… but only have the mods unscreen comments that facilitate relevant discussion. Sure, the trolling garbage never sees the light of day… but you can also keep screened the “Great post, guys! This is why I love this website!” comments that, while positive and encouraging for the writers… don’t really foster any positive dialogue. The writers will see the comments and gain the requisite warm fuzzies… but then the only comments using server bandwidth with each page load will be the astute observations and thoughtful questions of commenters (on-topic, of course).
I also rarely post, mostly because my various reincarnations’ passwords stop working about every 2-3 days and the forgot password stuff never worked. We’ll see if this one suffers the same fate too.
Anyways, I totally want a Bloomie on a pony. Maybe saying Bloomie to the rescue? I think merchandise could be god, but you wouldn’t have to specifically limit the stuff to USSM, you could have straight Mariners gear too, or Rainer gear.
As for the paying bit, I’m glad you don’t see that happening. I never would have looked at first if that had been there, and as a college student just now comprehending the vast amount of debt I have(not counting grad school that is coming) I would feel that I have better ways of letting money go.
Advertising is fine with me too, as long as it is not pop-ups or those floaty ones that obscure the page until you click close or yes! I want this!
Also, having guest posters sounds god, but again, it would have to be approved by you guys as being up to the level that is typical for here, which is vastly higher than most other places. Have you guys ever gone to some Angel’s blogs? Terrible. I think one was Halo’s Heaven or something.
I also read in horror as I thought you were announcing the end. Whew. I’m in Oregon, so the Mariners are my favorite team kind of by default since I rarely go to games. Honestly, though, with the advent of the Internet, without you guys, I would probably give up on them and go back to my childhood favorites, the Dodgers.
Thanks a million for all the work that goes into the site from authors, mods, and posters.
What I like about the site:
1. It gives me new ways to think about the game I’ve followed for almost 50 years.
2. It gives me a community of people who are interested in the same things about baseball that I am, even though I don’t comment that frequently.
3. The enforced civility makes the whole thing readable.
4. I love the snark. It’s my natural sense of humor.
Only suggestions:
1. More ability to search archives. I’ve been around almost a year and I’ve tried to do some research into your earlier stuff and found it hard to do.
2. Keep a donate button on the site all the time, but have a couple of fundraising drives a year. I don’t like the limitation of the “buy a beer” because it’s such a small amount each time and can’t be increased. I’d like to contribute my share, but don’t really want my VISA bill to have 30 lines a month on it for USSM.
Gomez, it would be wonderful to have comments curated so only the highest quality of discussion prevails, but the amount of work that kind of moderation would involve requires far more time than I at least can devote.
I am mostly a lurker but USSM is usually my first stop on the internets when I get to work. I think the old school here is a bit hard on the noobs and not so stat inclined but for information and discussion you really can’t top USSM.
Post 78 mentioned The Straight Dope which is usually my second stop. They are going to free posting soon but usually they charge around $15/yr for posting priveleges. I’d be more than willing to pay that here and judging from the comments above others would as well. In post 85 Dave says he isn’t interested in doing that but you guys shouldn’t be losing money. I am also behind the idea of an anthology (but I wouldn’t be jealous of the person researching and compiling that).
Dave, Derek, Gomez, and everyone else what you do at USSM is awesome and as someone said above don’t ever stop.
re: Cafepress; some of the basic swag is still there– take a look here — the short-timer shirts are no longer up, however, which would seem to call for some new designs and slogans
It isn’t about agreement, though trolls and other folks in need of moderation will always, always say it is (and I’m not saying you’re a troll, Gomez). It’s about contributing intelligently, writing coherently, showing evidence of reading other people, not repeating assertions that have been responded to many times before, etc. People who have a record of behaving well will of course get more leeway, just as you would check with a friend whether he really meant what you think he just said before yelling at him.
There are many ways to run a site. All of them involve, to some extent, choosing what sort of audience you want. Dave and Derek choose a style of conversation that isn’t for everybody. It is beside the point to say that not everyone is going to like their policies. Obviously a lot of people do, and for those people — for me — this is an agreeable place with a high standard for comment threads that is damned rare on the internet, and very welcome, much more so than another place where more people would feel “safe” to comment and the place would get so cluttered with frustrating conversation that Dave and Derek and the better commenters would get frustrated and stop participating. It’s clearly still somewhat frustrating to Derek as it is. They certainly don’t need looser policies.
Not everyplace needs to be for everyone, and there are plenty of places that are.
p.s.: I didn’t respond to your first comment along these lines, because you played the “lynch mob” card, and that is always — forgive me — a ludicrous metaphor to bring to a discussion like this. Every time I see someone pull that one out — it happens now and again at Making Light, for example — it means the speaker objects to a well-defined community that has a set of agreed-upon standards and doesn’t put up with crap. If you’re interested in reasonable conversation about internet communities an standards of conversation, you might want to leave “lynch mob” and similar inflammatory rhetoric at home.
but wait! there’s more! including the Chris Antonetti for GM buttons. sigh.
108 – Ack. Need an edit window. Gomez I like your posts but I’ll have to express that over on Lookout Landing.
wwwwwaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!
You’re breakin’ my heart.
Btw, you should of never quit your day job.
Another long time lurker. Purchaser of the book and CafePress swag. Contributor to the server and the marathon. Give me opportunities to support you all at the level which is comfortable for you, and I will.
I too, have this site on my home tabs and visit it every day, several timves. I watch games with my laptop open and am considering displaying the game thread as a PIP on my TV. The wonders of the digital age.
Much as I like the quality of the posts by the authors, I love the game threads which drift off to discussions of philosophy, or literature in the late innings of blowout games. They are so like sitting in the stands in the sunshine with friends. There have been too few of those this season, but we are still in the world of small sample size.
In general, I cannot stomach the tone of discourse on the web and avoid comment threads and message boards. At this site, I relish the author topics and the places the group takes them.
Ponies to the authors and moderators. Bees to the trolls.
Two words: Pink Equines.
You don’t want to fan the flames of trolls and detractors, and I think that’s the idea behind Derek posting about this conundrum in the first place… but stating or encouraging an active bias towards commenters, just because they’ve stated agreement with the writers, does just that.
Gomez, I am not talking about agreement with the writers – I am talking about proving that you can comment on a regular basis in a civil, intelligent manner. It’s like that in all aspects of life – if you are person who has demonstrated you are responsible and civil, people allow you a bit more leeway depending on the context. It should be no different here. I have no problem with blasting Mr. Annoying after a series of very poor comments because he misspells a player name, but not blasting Mrs. Long-Time Commenter with Class for making a spelling error of the same kind. In fact, I guarantee Mr. Annoying has his comments read more closely even by the regulars for minor errors just because he’s annoying, while Mrs. LTC’s errors often go unnoticed. It’s not shocking that those who act in a more appropriate manner (regardless of their agreement with the authors) get less scrutiny. This is all independent of their agreement/disagreement with the post.
I’ve disagreed with Dave and Derek many times – and early on before I knew what they were talking about, I disagreed quite adamantly and kept after them – but I’ve never been deleted or threatened with the queue even though I know I’ve misspelled a few things or left out a key word here or there. I hope it was because I tried to back up my positions with evidence and discuss it without name-calling or calling everybody an idiot.
I think your presumption that only those who disagree with the authors get blasted is wrong. It seems to me that those who make themselves targets most often get blasted. If somebody was just plain being a jerk but agreed with Dave/Derek, then I have to think the mods would take action.
Sorry about that last comment – I meant to close tags. If anybody can fix it, only the first para. was meant to be italicized.
Dave wrote:
Out of curiosity, what about increasing the advertising on the site makes you uncomfortable?
If I say soutbaymariner is a [self-moderated uncomplimentary term], for example, am I leading a lynch mob?
I forgot to mention: Teresa Nielsen Hayden of Making Light, who also has the thankless job of moderating Boing Boing’s comment threads, has noted that one of the things she likes most about Making Light’s commenter community is that it acts as a built-in set of antibodies against trolls and other nonsense. Teresa views this as a feature, something that has helped make it the place it is: certainly not for everybody, but popular and very well-defined. No doubt others would call it a place where only agreement is allowed, patrolled by lynch mobs. They’re wrong, but that doesn’t matter. You can’t set them straight, but that doesn’t matter. What matters is that they don’t pollute the discourse.
Derek, I read USSM every day. I am prepared to pay for the privilege. $50 per year would be just fine with me. Your model should be NPR or PBS. You will always have non-paying readers. So what?
Bob Kayline
Gomez and others, thanks for your thoughts. I want nothing to do with having to approve every single comment, though, or else USSM would have to bring me on the payroll and I don’t work cheap.
I do take people’s past posting history, if any, into account when dealing with their comments; someone who’s got a good history gets more leeway with an off day, and I’d argue that is as it should be.
Here’s the fact of the matter though; most of the posts that should be modded for one reason or another, not very coincidentally, are posts that are in disagreement with Dave/Derek/most of the other people here.
So, when we see a post that says “I think you guys are wrong about X, because of A, B, and C”; we let it through. Those posts actually have value to all of us because it usually draws further explanation and clarification out of Dave or Derek (or JMB, I feel bad about omitting him, come back soon!)
But those are by far the less common type of dissenting opinions that get posted here; what we see far more often is things like the “Rhodes haters” comment from yesterday that sparked some of this. Just hostile-sounding disagreement with no backup whatsoever.
So yes, comments that disagree with the main train of thought here ARE held to a higher standard, but I’d argue that is exactly as it should be; if you’re going to disagree with the well thought out posts that the authors here do, your disagreement post should be at least as well thought out as theirs, if not more so, and that’s sadly a standard that almost never gets lived up to.
Sorry about that last comment – I meant to close tags. If anybody can fix it, only the first para. was meant to be italicized.
Fixed it before I even saw you asking me to.
I may be overly snarky and arrogant, but for quickly fixing HTML, I’m your man.
I don’t think the issue is spelling errors, CO, but content. Yes, it would be stupid to delete one of your thoughtful comments because you left an L out of Piniella or something. I think a moderator’s judgment is better than that. It’s one thing to make a typo, but another to resort to illogical snark in lieu of rationally defending one’s point).
A typo, as moderated here, is just a conventional excuse to blast an otherwise illogical comment anyway.
I definitely enjoy the blog…
You guys gotta sell T-shirts. There are plenty of great lines that come out of this blog that belong on a T-shirt.
Who here wouldn’t buy a T-shirt that says:
“Happy Felix Day”
“I (heart) W.F.B.”
“I value veteran leadership. Bring back Chris Bosio!”
“ERA is so five years ago”
“USS Mariner: Somebody buy this fan a tasty beer”
etc, etc…
if you’re worried about a warehouse full of T-shirts, then do a pre-order and just print the number you need. It would raise a few bucks, and it would be fun, you could always tell a fellow reader by who was wearing their shirt to the games…
121. Thanks for your work, Jeff. The thing with my last idea is that would be a bear in the short term if the screws were tightened that way, but once people see over time that they can’t just post any old string of words here without showing their reasoning, the load would decrease considerably.
Can we bring back the Antonetti for GM buttons? Also, I am all for a Willie on a pony t-shirt with an ‘endorsed by USS Mariner’ underneath it. Antonetti t-shirts would be good, too.
Swag swag swag! Maybe tap into some of the irreverent humor over at Lookout Landing. I know Jeff could come up with some wonderful ideas for shirts and other various forms of swag.
What do I want from USSM?
I want USSM to take Bavasi’s job.
Happy Birthday – I can’t remember how I found you guys but I’m glad I did. Sometimes I forget how good we Ms fans have it to get such great in depth analysis – for free. There are plenty of teams that don’t have anything close to this site. I’d be happy to contribute to the effort.
An addition I’d like to see would be the USSM logo popping up as a home button on the iPhone. Yeah, I know, I’m lame. You’ll remain a dedicated button either way, but it would still look cool.
I really can’t add anything more that hasn’t already been said. I just wanted to throw in my thanks as well. Keep up the great work guys.
I don’t like comments. They are a waste of my time and alot of other people’s. Getting rid of comments would also greatly reduce server load. I guess its not really an option on the table, but blogging without comments is ok with me.
A friend of mine who writes for a local weekly said journalism and writing now is all about the conversation. I just dont think any of these comments adds didly to the conversation. I just like reading your take on the games, the team, and the moves. Whenever I check comments its almost always a big waste of time. Like right now. …
Keep up the good writing, and thanks.
One of the big problems with merch is the legality of it all. I know you can’t use any Mariners or MLB logos and get away with it. I’m pretty sure you can’t use a player’s picture. It may not even be possible to use a player’s name.
As a daily reader for the last three year, I would first like to say thank you, thank you, thank you.
As a 22-year-old sports journalist, I understand your predicament. No one has figured out a business model that works online.
All that said, I wouldn’t mind more ads. I think most of us have been conditioned not to look at them anyway.
127 – that is my fantasy.
I’m one of the 6000. I love it and I can’t think of anything that needs to change.
As for the hassle you are getting for not being optimistic enough, I don’t think there’s much you can do except try and enjoy it. You’re the organ grinder and they are the monkeys.
Thank you Thank you Thank you – Agree or disagree, I read everyword here as a way to become a more informed fan.
If you could find some way to charge me $1.00 every time I quoted or refered to something I read here I would owe you guys a zillion dollars.
Too bad most of the bloggers here are men. I seriously considered building a pink pony hat to wear to games. I’d offer to make them so you could sell them on the site, but how many of you fans would wear them to games? I’m picturing a Mariners cap with a My Pretty Pony glued to the top scattered throughout the stadium as a counter-point to the rally fries signs.
Seriously though – I would buy a sweatshirt, donate periodically etc to support the site.
And for the Fearless Leaders here, I’ve got a tickets for a game or two that I’d be willing to give up. It isn’t $$$, but it would sure show my appreciation. (they’re great seats 14 rows up from fist base on the aisle)
I just want USSM to keep up what it’s been doing. I really like the idea of allowing free viewing but pay to get posting rights that was suggested earlier. I think that would make the site a lot more enjoyable for the regular readers, and if some troll really thinks it is worth paying to make some silly comment I can deal with it since they’re contributing.
Also CHEATERS GUIDE TO BASEBALL ROCKED!! Never would have bought it if I hadn’t been exposed to this site so I am grateful for that in addition to the daily content. Thanks guys, this site is a blessing.
This is very far from true. Plenty of people are making money from internet writing. Some of them are making a lot of money. There are businesses that exist entirely to increase the profitability of successful weblogs. A friend of mine works for one of those companies: it’s her full-time job, and the full-time job of several other people there. Many of their clients make their entire living — a good living — of their weblogs. Seriously, making money on the internet isn’t easy, but it’s not impossible either.
I tell my girlfriend, “Happy Felix Day,” the first thing as we get out of bed on the days of his starts…I would buy a shirt with that slogan…and probably any other shirts with the phrases used often here…
One thing I’ve typically thought about USSM is that it doesn’t really need the game threads– they typically aren’t that insightful (ok, they rarely are) and totally swamp your bandwidth. A place like LL is much better suited for those threads since they have the backing. I come here for the in-depth analysis of the main posts. The comments lately have been more are more irritating, especially since they’re not threaded.
I could very well be alone in this thinking, but I do think more strict posting rules should be in place.
One of the things you mentioned you’d like to do is get to more people in game threads. Well, when Raul flounders after a ball that causes the other team to get a go ahead run, the site gets inundated with “Adam Jones would have caught that.” What is even worse, are the one word posts such as “Agreed” or “ICHIRO!!!!!!!” after a great post/play.
I know Dave wants to bring up the AJ thing (a lot), and he has that right because of the work he puts in. I just think the rest of us should stick to contributing in better ways.
This doesn’t mean I think every Bloomquist Backer (haha, new term!) should have their posts zapped. I just think his lovers and haters alike ought to have something constructive to say besides “he sucks!!1!!1″ or “you guys are too hard on him.”
So, I totally know you guys want to have this be as open a forum as possible, but we have to face it: Things aren’t getting better. As the site grows in popularity, we see more and more drive by comments that offer nothing.
Hope that helps.
140-
Agreed : )
In line with many of the posts today I would support more advertising (except the pop ups that require action to remove), cool SWAG (I’d purchase t-shirts with WFB on a pony or “Happy Felix Day”), permanent links to donate to the cause, and some form of a subscription service to help offset some of the expenses and / or provide some compensation for Dave and Derek’s excellent work.
As far as what I want from USSM for the future? More of the same! I can only hope that the authors and supporters continue to get more out of the experience than they give.
I am one of the 6000 daily visitors and can’t get enough! Not to go all soft and pony-like or anything – but over the last year or so this site has helped fill a void for me after I happily rode into the sunset after 30 years of playing baseball to enjoy more time with my family (no regrets). The time spent reading USSM has completely changed the way I think about the sport that I love. For that you’ll see me on your user list for years to come. Thank you.
How about selling an “ADAM JONES WOULD HAVE CAUGHT THAT” t-shirt
I’d buy a hundred
But seriously, I agree with Carson…when I first found the site a couple years ago, my favorite aspect was the game threads, so I could communicate my displeasure and joy during games with fellow fans because I live in Cali with NO Mariner fans…but I try to keep away from the game threads now because they aren’t that good anymore…and yes, I’m aware I’ve probably had plenty of wastful/lame comments myself…point is, this is by far the most informational website when it comes to baseball and more importantly the Ms, and we are lucky to have it…as fans we need to do our part to make it run as smooth as possible and to make the administrators’ jobs easier…
Just a comment about the comment moderation. USSM does as good a job as I’ve seen anywhere on the Interwebs at managing comments. Of course tinkering to get better is a good idea, but don’t, y’know, do the Internet equivalent of trying to turn Jose Lopez into a spray hitter…
I just started visiting this site probably around December 07 because I kept hearing mentions of it on KJR and on different web sites that I was visiting. I don’t consider myself the smartest Mariners fan out there by any stretch, but I had become disgusted listening to the crap that was being spewed on KJR about the M’s. Other blogs were no better. Then I found this site and just fell in love with it. Great info on the M’s, great discussions, and overall just fun posts. I can’t get through a day anymore without checking this site at a minimum 5 times a day. I love my M’s and now I have a site that keeps me so informed and up-to-date on the current status of things. You guys are doing a hell of a job with this site and I hope that you continue to do so.
I understand that some people would be upset if you charged any kind of a fee for this site. For me personally, I would be willing to pay a fee if I can continue to get information from people who don’t think that WFB should be an everyday player or that if we just brought back Griffey everything would be ok. I’m tired of that crap. I hear it everyday on KJR and it makes me sick. This is a site where intelligent people discuss what is going on with the M’s whether it is good or bad. It is so refreshing to finally find a web site like this one.
On a final note, I think merchandise might be a good move. I for one would be proud to wear a USSM hat, shirt, or coat. I think that there are many others that feel the same way.
Thank you so much for everything that you guys do and keep up the good work.
Game threads move really, really fast from a post count perspective. I was watching comments last night and literally every time I refreshed there was about a half page to scan through.
I tend to watch comments while watching the games, just like many of you do, and it just isn’t possible to nuke every “RAUUUUUUUUUL” comment, even if that was how we decided to deal with game threads.
Plus I think there’s a certain value to allowing game threads to have a little bit looser moderation to let people just jaw about the game, since the non-game threads tend to be much more tightly moderated.
And really, it’s okay to just decide for yourself “I generally don’t get anything out of the game threads so I won’t bother reading them” and just stick to the more topic-oriented posts with the tighter discussion.
#111
Just saw your post, thanks for the link. I will have to start ordering some gear.
How about selling an “ADAM JONES WOULD HAVE CAUGHT THAT” t-shirt
I’d buy a hundred
I might want to stand outside Safeco and give those away free.
Can we bring back the Antonetti for GM buttons?
well, that was some untidy html-ing.
I’m at a bit of a loss as to how to fix that one I’m afraid.
Thanks msb — I completely missed your original post of that…I guess that’s what happens when you skim and scan.
I’ve been reading USSMariner since about the beginning, when I was a little pup not long from high school. Thank you Derek and thank you Dave for the all the hard work.
I would just like to echo many of the sentiments here. I’ve been a reader since the beginning, but chose to read (including comments) rather than post. I enjoy reading Dave’s and DMZ’s responses to questions, I enjoy the discussion here, and as a sports reporter and someone who tries on a semi-decent basis to update his own Web site, I definitely appreciate the hard work and sacrifice you guys put into USSM.
I think it’s probably surprising how many people visit the site, yet would rather read than comment. I know plenty of my friends do the same because its our favorite site and we love the work you guys do.
Thanks for all the fun
I think somebody just needs a hug…
As for a stream of revenue, Providing content for free is a bit different than providing people with a place to leave multiple comments about the content. I love reading Dave’s posts and I enjoy throwing an occasional go M’s in a game thread. If I had to pay a modest fee for the right to leave comments (i.e an ‘elite’ status) I would consider it if it were not outrageous and if the comments were not so arbitrarily censored. At aase DMZ, I said “if”, not that they in fact are.
Allowing people to drop in a leave a comment or ask a Q who are not regular readers would not be something I would want to see go away entirley but thanks to loads of Starwars on Spike this last week, I remembered that there are alternative means to fighting… so maybe an email address or link that would allow the occasional or firsttime reader a place to submit some questions that you could address in a weekly thread… anyway just wante to toss in my two cents since it was solicited, kinda. Well at least figuartively.
As for merchandise I’d buy some with the same scrutiny as I would any other. Does it look good on me? Do I support whatever it is I’m promoting on my body? Is it corny? Some of the merchandise ideas I’ve heard out here didn’t pass the third prong of the test because the humor in memorializing an inside joke has a half life that has expired usually by the time you’ve decided to memorialize it.
Anyway great work Dave, love the insight you provide.
and somebody please give DMZ a hug.
oh yeah and GO M’s!
Just bought ‘The Cheater’s Guide’ on Zmazon. Keep up the good work!
I have been reading USSM for just shy of a year, and I love it. I rarely post, but read everyday. Personally, I love how this site is set up, and how its run. I would be disappointed if you changed your writing style and views to try to satisfy more people. I personally do not see any problem with trying to get people to donate to the site, (which I would do if I werent a college student with no money) or if you advertise for A Cheaters Guide (which I am hoping to get for my birthday
). I want to give you guys huge props for what you have done here, and I hope that you will never sell out(which I doubt you will do) and never change!
Since Jason has already been mentioned as a missed contributor to the site I also want to mention that I miss Jeff. The hit king sits on the strip is one of my all-time favorite posts on the site.
Ive been reading since late 2003, and while i dont always agree with what you say, obviously you guys are interesting and intelligent enough to keep me reading every post every single day.
one thing i was thinking of, have you considered opening up some sort of message board? maybe not even technically connected to the site, but even a link in the front page to an independent board? so that way, all the barry bonds comments and off-topic posts could just stay there instead of you guys being forced to clean up threads all the time?
think of it as a “kids table” or “play area” of sorts. the blog would definitely be your area, but the message board would be to attract people and let them talk freely amongst themselves.
of course, i have no idea how to do any of this so i dont know if what im proposing is practical or not, it just seems like a good way to get a lot more readers without destroying game threads completely.
I agree with 54 and 57. I have read this blog since the beginning before comments were allowed and frankly I thought USS Mariner was great before it was interactive.
Keep up the great work. As a fellow blogger for another Seattle team your site and its level of discourse was the model for what we were trying to create over at ours. I completely sympathize with your occasional frustration at being misquoted or having to restate a position for the Nth time. All I can say is don’t let it grind you down. Yours and Dave’s insightful commentary and occasional snarky attitude are the reason I keep coming back and would keep coming back, comments or not. Here’s to the next five years for USS Mariner!
Steve
122- Thanks Graham!
This. I’ve been reading since sometime mid-2004, and in all that time, I’ve never run across a better team-specific baseball blog than this one. Don’t stop doing what you do.
I really enjoy the site. The commentary is pretty smart, but I doubt I’d pay for it. If trolls bug you so much, feel free to make the posters pay. That would be fine. Also, maybe you should consider permanently using volunteer monitors for the comments. Do yourself a favor and don’t bother reading the comments at all. It’s not worth the aggravation.
Also, go for the ads and maximize the sites revenue potential. Sell some swag. Get linked. I really doubt anyone will hold against you and maybe if some real money starts rolling in, it will be fun again.
147. An idea, Jeff: You could let game threads be open season, to maintain that free-flowing dialogue during games, and then screen comments for the other discussion entries. Would that help the bandwidth issues?
A donation tab is certainly appropriate for this site, but I think the collective goodness of the readers’ hearts has been quantified at roughly 3 grand – as shown with the cancer marathon donations a few months ago. I would fully support a donations tab, coupled with twice-a-year donations drives, but sadly I doubt it will cover much in the way of costs.
As for the commenting here, I think either (i) a small fee; or (ii) a week-long waiting period after registering for an account may do a lot to cut down on the number of drive-by morons and trolls, and thus on the blood pressure of the kind sirs who run the site for us.
Well, the authors have the final say, but that’s to a certain extent what we already do; stuff doesn’t generally get squashed from game threads unless it’s pretty egregious.
The bandwidth issues are probably going to continue as long as commenting is allowed on game threads, since it’s the act of them being posted that eats bandwidth rather than the act of moderating them; but I think that game threads are a valuable part of site content and community building here, and I’ve actually seen some really good discussion happen in game threads, oftentimes from something that gets posted when the actual game has gotten a little uninteresting.
edit to address this:
Not to give too much away, but there are measures in place to reduce the impact of this. There are a lot of really bad comments that you guys never see.
Just a few words to say about your GREAR website. First of all, I’m fairly new here. I started reading this blog a week or so before we went to Spring Training in Arizona in late February. I have developed some pretty good insights into the team since I started reading here, and learned a lot about baseball in general.
Frankly, as an older guy – I would appreciate this blog in slightly larger size type. It would certainly make reading it easier.
A small monthly fee – as proposed by others – would certainly keep a lot of the random sniping down to a minimum.
I’m not sure how many folks here are season ticket holders or get regular game tickets; but as the holder of two weekend plan seats, I would certainly be open to donating a pair or two during the season as part of a reward to the moderators for their efforts. (Oh – and the tickets are at field level in Section 115 – not up in the nose bleed section)
As long as you’re soliciting feedback, I’ll provide it:
1. Writing about baseball on a blog with no plan for monetization is not, surprising as it apparently may be, a way to monetize the blog.
2. The various attempts at making money on the site have been so scattered, apologetic, and feeble as to have very little chance to succeed. It may or may not be possible to make money on here, but it almost certainly is not if the only efforts to do so consist of weak efforts thrown up from time to time without any thought or planning.
3. I don’t like some of the political/cultural stances that Derek promotes — with various degrees of transparency — in his posts and comments. Of course, I’m in the minority of site readers in my disagreement with his left-leaning opinions, so this probably matters for little other than the disagreement it will engender in subsequent comments. Derek’s summary of USSM on the one site analytics site I’ve looked it up on, and the other viewership stats I’ve seen, indicated that the demographics of the site readership are likely to have the same types of views. To the extent this type of honest feedback is sought, though, here it is.
4. I personally thought Cheater’s Guide to Baseball was not all that interesting. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Maybe I’m the only one who feels that way — for Derek’s sake, I hope so. It was promoted reasonably heavily here, but I’ve seen promotional efforts that were much more over the top (typically, though, when the book’s content related more directly to the blog’s content).
5. There really isn’t that much to say about the team, assuming you guys lack significant access to insider sources of information. One drawback of sophisticated baseball analysis is that minor variations in performance — say, Ichiro going hitless for five games in a row — are the kind of thing that a mainstream site could write some meaningless tripe about. For you guys, though, you (and your readers) know that he is still putting bat on ball 92% of the time, so nothing is amiss. Not much to say there.
The same principle applies to game threads. What do you really expect to write in your posts, or to read in comments, other than restatements of the same points? I’m not saying you lack originality — you guys do a nice job of trying to make pithy and analytical points in everyday posts and in game threads — but there really isn’t a ton to say.
6. There may be opportunities to sell USS Mariner merchandise if you put some real effort into it. That may involve hiring a graphic designer or otherwise doing something other than writing “USS Mariner” on a white t-shirt on Cafepress and then complaining that nobody wants to buy the shirts. You need something that is at least vaguely witty or interesting. For example, if you came up with a shirt that said — and this is just off the top of my head — “VIDRO’S EMPTY .300 AVERAGE SUCKS. ASK ME WHY.” — and you included your URL at the bottom, you might get casual fans talking to your site readers and learning about baseball analysis. You would have a happy customer and, potentially, new visitors to the site. Let me be clear – this isn’t the same thing as an “inside joke.” It’s something that insiders would understand, but that would draw the attention of others as well. An example of an “inside joke” that wouldn’t work is a jersey that says “Doyle” on it (either now or a few years ago). Nobody other than USSM readers know, or care, that you guys gave him that nickname, nor would anyone other than a USSM reader find it interesting.
7. The comment moderation seems quite good to me. My only complaint about it would be Derek’s behavior from time to time. If you watched SNL a few years ago, you may recall the skit where Fallon played an arrogant, unlikeable, abrasive tech support guy who acted superior to those who asked him questions about office equipment. That kind of attitude, when used by DMZ on new visitors, people he doesn’t like, or others, is a detriment to the enjoyment of the site by a diverse group of readers.
This is not to say that the forums should be unmoderated or that USSM needs to allow its comment threads to be populated by garbage. Treating newbies, people DMZ disagrees with, and other “undesirables” poorly, though, is at odds with DMZ’s apparent goals of increasing the site’s audience and the likelihood of that audience to be willing to purchase merchandise or otherwise contribute financially.
What that results in — and which is perfectly consistent with what Derek has witnessed in all his attempts to monetize the site, according to his post — is that only a tiny subgroup of people who feel as if they’re part of the “club” feel invested enough to contribute financially.
Sometimes a small group of dedicated readers and commenters can be enough. If you were selling something expensive, or providing something that merited exclusive treatment, that would be fine. In the model you’ve used to date, though, which is likely the only one that is possible for the type of information you’re providing, that won’t work.
8. Dave is awesome. I’ve learned a great deal from his posts.
9. Thanks to all you guys for the effort and hard work. As noted above, I think DMZ’s personality and behavior are drawbacks at times, but I appreciate the dedication and efforts of all the authors, moderators, and regular commenters, including (and especially) DMZ and Dave.
You guys are awesome. I live in NYC, and whenever I meet someone else from Seattle and we start talking Mariners, USSM always comes up, whether it is me or my newfound Washingtonian, and everyone I meet is a reader.
Not to sound like a cheapskate, I feel charging $20 a month would be a disaster. I know there are some frequent readers/posters who get annoyed by some of the *cough* lackluster posts that appear (and you can’t blame them), and think that a membership fee would drive many of those readers/posters away – but it would drive away many others as well. I am fresh out of college and not making much money, and living in New York, this is where I go to talk shop (even though I do not actually talk) about the Mariners. It was also the only way I have been able to survive the last 3 seasons(one in NYC, two while in college in Boston) without going crazy over the local media coverage.
One post early in the thread suggested a $5 annual fee for posting – I like that idea. Just don’t have a fee that keeps the faithful yet financially unstable readers away from your brilliant, thought-provoking, innovative, and just plain good writing.
I have been an avid reader for over 3 years and would happily make small contributions such as the $5 annual posting fee, even though I hardly post. The “click here to buy the writer a beer” link was good also. Keep up the good work as I always learn more about the game from you guys. Thanks!
In all seriousness I thank you guys for completely changing the way I view the game. When I started reading at the end of 2003, I thought Ryan Franklin was a good pitcher. I thought the Greg Colbrunn trade was a good idea. I thought Mike Cameron sucked because he struck out too much.
I appreciate everything you guys have done. You’ve made me a far better fan and made me far more interested in the game of baseball.
I don’t care what happens as long as you don’t stop. As long as you enjoy writing about the Mariners, please don’t stop. Thanks.
I’ve been a reader for most of the five years now, but not really a commenter. I bought Cheater’s Guide when it first came out as a show of support. My main recommendation for the website:
1)DEREK, I would suggest writing more posts like the Bugs Bunny post. That is the kind of post that can serve the dual purpose of adding content to USSM, but also moving your writing career forward. Of course, I realize these posts don’t just pop out your fingertips, but maybe if it was a more conscious goal, it might happen.
2) Maybe you can consider once again utilizing multiple authors, so as to cut down on the amount of work per person.
3) I like all the content otherwise. I come back and read. Good stuff. I especially like when Dave does statistical analysis, both of you do roster construction-type stuff, running of simulations, the more analytical type stuff is what makes you stand out from other blogs. I personally don’t care for ripping into the local media if its not intended to spark an actual debate. For example, I enjoy the debates you have with Geoff Baker, but I don’t care for ripping into inaccuracies, or using [sic] to make someone look stupid. Of course, this is your site, and you can do what you want. And, that being my only criticism, you are doing pretty dang good.
4) I like the site, I read a lot of team blogs, so I would not pay a monthly fee for the site. Unfortunately, while I have the time to read, I don’t have much money, and when I finally am making lots of money, I won’t have the time. I think my situation might be similar to others, but maybe not.
Whoa, Corco from out of nowhere.
I should have said, like Chris, I too would be willing to give some small annual fee to read, such as 5 or 10 bucks.
As a Twins fan and blogger, I congratulate you on your site and five years of great writing.
Admittedly, sometimes the feuds with the readers have really amusing consequences. I still chuckle when I think about D-Rek and S-Mac.
Love the site. Thanks for all your hard work.
A small annual fee or a one time registration fee to read/comment may be the best way to make a little money from all your hard work and help keep discussion in the comment threads civil. I know of a number of sites that also offer two versions of the site–one with ads, one without. You pay the fee, you don’t have to see advertisements.
Speaking as someone who doesn’t necessarily read the site every day, I’m not sure your coverage is comprehensive/regular enough that I would pay anything other than a small one time fee to read. More consistent daily coverage would certainly convince me to pay a monthly fee, however. Of course then you would be in a situation where you would be somewhat more obligated to provide content whether you felt like it or not. Keeping it a free site keeps you from owing the reader anything.
Mentioning Twins blogs makes me sad, I miss Batgirl and her Legos.
Wow. Corco out of jail?
I attempted to send a Beer without a link. Paypal remembers prior payments. It was not difficult. Therefore; if anyone has the desire to “Buy A Beer” or just contribute it is rather simple (good thing as I’m computer dumb).
God, what is it with you Derek? First the Bloomquist hate, then the book crap, and now fishing for hugs? Gaaah.
Kidding. Seriously, thanks for all your work over the years. It’s funny, when I talk about blogging with people everyone brings you all up as an example of a good blog. Not baseball blog, not sports blog… just blog.
My one change: Charge to comment. Even if it’s not to make money, make people put down cash. MetaFilter, for example, charges $5 to sign up, which acts as a nice barrier to entry for abusers.
Or, charge $5/month — but offer something with it, like an annual USSM t-shirt and/or the USSM Christmas card. I pay $5/month for my last.fm account, so it’s not a killer price. It’ll cut your registered commenter base in half, though. Maybe that’s good.
I guess you guys are burning out a bit. I’ve been burned out on blogging recently as well. What finally got me out of it was another blogger saying, “I always read your stuff because you’re always worth reading.” So, maybe that’s what you need to hear. I always read USSM because it’s always worth reading. I can count the number of blogs I feel that way about on one hand.
I love this site, I try to visit as much as I can – it helps to understand that there are others out there who want my team to do it right and to WIN for the long haul.
I believe though, that you are solicting feedback on the following:
*What can you give?*
Keep doing what you’ve been doing. I love the site. I’ve noticed over the past year or so you guys have been bumming and it shows. And why not, you believe your team is being run poorly.
* How do you continue to make progress in your goal of helping build Mariner fandom, and of supporting it as one of the smartest and best in baseball?*
I believe this is the real crux of your post. It almost sounds like you’re getting to where doing USSM is almost not worth doing anymore. And that’s too bad. I’ll be sad when the day comes that USSM is not around, I think your opinions and insights are valuable and influential, as you note.
I’m sure you already know this, but getting loads of cash with a single-team blog, no matter how great, is probably not going to happen.
If you’re looking for suggestions as to how to ease the pain, I can give a few:
1) Consolidate with another blog if possible (I have a candidate in mind, and I’m sure everyone else here does too). More content, more readers, and the pain of administration is spread out. There’s other guys who also will feel your pain
2) Sell some merch. Act like a band, make some stickers and t=shirts, at least you’ll make a few extra bones for some beer and hopefully increase site hits.
3) Be more aggressive about having items readers CAN’T post to. It’s OK – most people who visit here want to read YOUR opinions, not some 12 year old jackass’s thoughts. OR keep responses open for a shorter period of time for some types of posts.
4) Do some more guest-starring elsewhere – newspapers, other blogs etc. If it sounds fun, of course
5) Keep being yourselves. This is really the hard part. If you just can’t bring it anymore, and your days are done, then maybe you should hang it up. The Mariners fans will suffer a huge loss but you have your own threshold of pain. That said, I don’t really think you’ll be anymore satisfied with the team whether you do USSM or not. And I think USSM provides you guys with an outlet that many fans don’t have. A way to eventually (hopefully) affect change with what you love. That’s power that you can’t buy.
I understand that it’s tough to take snarky comments when you’re invested, when you love something. Sometimes maybe just take a break from reading posts, have volunteer moderators edit the posts. Everyone has their own agenda, some days I’m sure it’s better to just let it be.
I’m a long-time lurker and I love the site. It would suck if it didn’t exist anymore. I don’t always agree with you guys, but you make being an M’s fan 10x better. Ever since you guys started “sparring” with Geoff Baker, it’s been great to be a third party recipient of the cross analysis. Plus, just having two in-depth, intelligent blogs about my most favorite team ever is completely awesome.
I would definitely contribute to a regular pledge drive.
Don’t worry, we’re not going to suddenly be deluged with McCall traffic updates.
I know Dave has already stated he’d rather not charge, but I just wanted to put in my agreement with one or two other posters that if you make someone pay to comment, then they’re going to most likely feel they deserve more than a prefunctory “because you’re wrong” reply from the site authors, which would mean you’ll be spending even more time placating your paying customers with long thoughtful responses to inane comments.
Thanks for the blog, though. I know it’s a labor of love even if some folks seem to think it’s the opposite.
sigh.
memmmmmmmmrieeeeeeesssss ….
This site kept me going as an Ms fan during the Dark Days of Hargrove and now McLaren; when Bavasi seemingly made trading decisions using a Magic Eight-Ball; and when the seasons were all but lost.
If nothing else, I could visit USSM, read some well-written articles, and commiserate with my fellow dejected fans.
That being said…
[this is not a board]
I realize these comments have very quickly become redundant. But I would simply encourage you guys to crunch some numbers.
Keep all the site content free, and charge a measly $5/year for posting You say you have around 6,000 daily readers. Let’s say only a quarter of those care to pay for posting priviliges. That’s $7,500.
Keep a “Buy a Beer” perma-link on the site. And, if possible, allow multiple beer purchases in a single transaction, as suggested. You say you’ve had a hundred takers, and I rarely see the button. I’m guessing you could do that plus 50% annually. 150/yr at $3 – that’s $450.
Keep a perma-link to your cafepress merch. Most people don’t know it exists. No need to over-do it. But a few new clever designs would be fairly easy to come up with. I’ve never sold on cafepress – I don’t know what the margin is like on that stuff or if there’s much money to be made. But with some minimal effort, I bet you could get $150 year on swag.
Put some ads up. Supposedly an average blogger can make $50/month with blogads. Let’s say you don’t even do that, but you manage $400/year. It’s something.
Even a once a year fundraiser is better than nothing. As was mentioned earlier, we’ve seen the generosity of this readership reach $3,000 fairly quickly. I don’t think you’d manage that on a yearly basis, but 50% is a believable number. So there’s $1,500 by asking for donations once a year.
Now you’ve got $10,000 coming from USSM without any gigantic changes. Definitely not a way to make a living – at 30 hrs/wk that’s less than $6.50/hr just for one of you. But it cuts down on the trolls and lightens the workload for the mods and everyone involved. It helps defray your costs, and by simply switching things up and feeling like you’re not losing money doing something you love, it will keep you from burnout. I’ve done all kinds of unpaid, volunteer work before – and as much as I have a passion for it, when you feel like you’re under-appreciated and losing time/money, burnout happens quickly. So Happy Birthday, Good Luck, and don’t ever quit what you guys are doing.
I don’t know if this is something that has been considered but have you considered bringing more authors on board? I know there are several very smart blogless Mariners fans whose youthful enthusiasm could bring new life onto this blog. If they were interested, that could help make this a more enjoyable experience.
If I were running this ship I’d bring some of these guys on board (or at least force JMB and Shaw back into the fold) and close comments for good. The general nature of posts and attitude on the blog was admittedly a lot more enthusiastic before comments appeared.
I have been reading you guys for a long time and have only recently had the time/opportunity to contribute to these threads on a daily basis.
I strongly believe that with an already huge following, blogs are the interactive news source of the future.
As someone who works in PR / Marketing and has been trained my whole life on viral marketing and degrees in business I believe you guys should start investing in this blog.
If you need to contact me for any type of input I would be glad to assist, but I think the way to make it for USSMariner is by pumping money back into the blog and using this outstanding blog as a money maker.
You guys are great! Go M’s
I think that may be related more to the team’s performance than the commenters’ performance
Along with the lines of quite a few individuals here, I’ve also been an avid reader for the last few years but I’ve rarely posted (In my place, none at all).
However, I do check the site everyday and I have more than appreciated the insight into both the Mariners and baseball in general that you’ve provided. If I wasn’t a student, I would happily pay a fee annually for the privilage of being able to comment and read, however do keep in mind it might seriously limit the audience you currently have.
I would recommend, following some suggestions above, that perhaps you make this yearly contribution (or monthly) a possibility. Direct Debit or something would do the trick. I would gladly sign up once I graduate myself.
I nth the sentiment that you could charge a small annual fee (like 10-20 bucks) and you’d get 95% of those people that visit regularly.
-HC
As a Blue Jays fan from Ontario, I stop by USSM nearly every day for the content put up by the authors here.
You guys should have a donation button somewhere in the sidebars at all times: people like giving you money. Fundraising drives are totally legit, too: people will give you money if you ask them to.
I agree with points 1 and 2 of #169, as well. Money doesn’t just fall out of the sky, you have to arrange for it to occur.
As far as content, I think there’s nothing to say that hasn’t already been said: keep it up, guys.
#169 said it well.
I’m not a Mariners fan and I hate most team-oriented websites and blogs. But Derek and Dave actually have a clue about baseball and the Mariners, and I actually learn something by reading. I wish every team had guys like this blogging about them. Thanks for writing, authors.
In all honesty, I’d rather pay a use fee to USSM (a group of hardcore Ms fans) than to some huge megacongolmerate that doesn’t give a rat about anything other than making a buck (ESPN, anyone?). The content is well worth it, and the time you guys put into it is amazing. I’ve learned so much about baseball here.
I don’t think voluntary contributions will amount to much – I’ve said several times that I would pay for this content, but I’ve never bought the authors a refreshing beer. Why not? Because, in part, I don’t have to. And also, how do you keep it fair? Etc. Lame, I know, but honest.
Having the comment moderators has been awesome. I think (hope) it takes a huge burden off of Dave/Derek, and lets them focus on their content. That was an idea that worked.
Please do not go advertising-crazy, like ProspectInsider has. I like Jason’s content, but man, that site is ugly to read now. I’d much rather pay you a fee directly.
One thing I would stress – while I like the idea of having a “pay-to-comment” fee in theory, I think it would backfire hugely in practice. Once you’ve taken money from someone in order to let them post, then you are somehwhat obligated to let them post. Yeah, you can moderate for utter rudeness and comment guidelines, but I can really see it getting ugly – “I paid my $5, let me have my say!” Sure, you can offer refunds, but do you really want to go there?
Personally, I appreciate all of the work that you guys put into it, even (or especially?) when I disagree with one of your premises. I don’t mind being told I’m wrong – we all have things we can learn. But I do want others to at least consider my supported hypotheses, too. If I’m civil, if I follow the commenting guidelines, if I show others respect, I think that a positive discourse will follow.
I seldom comment, and seldom read the comments (although I usually find at least a few things that crack me up–in a good way–when I do), so if it extends the life of the blog, I’d be fine with seldom having comments (like on game threads only?) or not having them at all. I’d also chip in a few bucks a year to read if that’s what you need to keep you going.
I do think there’s a point where a blog gets so large and so popular that comments become not worth the effort for the writers. When it’s a small, fun batch of people (which USSM likely was before I started reading it in ‘05), comments can be fun. But maybe the question is whether you, the authors, feel comments are now more trouble than they’re worth. If you junked them entirely (or mostly), do you think the readership would suddenly crash by half? I don’t. I think you’d lose about 10% of your audience and about 95% of your headaches.
I do appreciate what you do. I enjoy the game more now than I did before I read USSM. Thanks for the effort, and I hope you find a way to keep it going–and enjoy it at the same time.
I have been a frequent reader for the past year or two but have never posted before (mainly because I am scared of getting ripped by snobby commenters). I would pay a $5/month subscription. If you implemented a fee I think you would see less uninformed and mean spirited posts.
Awesome Blog. As a Mariner fan living in Massachusetts (quite possibly the only one) this is the closest I get to following the M’s and you guys do an incredible job of it. Thanks for letting people know about the book, Im looking forward to it. And PLEASE make some Happy Felix Day shirts,
I stumbled on to this blog via a Pro Yakyu forum in 2004. It was an important year for me baseball wise(I read Moneyball that summer too) because as an M’s fan I didn’t see that terrible season coming. I believed the team PR, I relied on past performance, and the wrong stats. 2004 was an eye opener and it was discovering this site that have kept my eyes open.
This is worth more than a few of my hard earned dollars and I’ve sent a few of them your way and will do so in the future. However, for the uninitiated, the content should remain free so M’s and baseball fans in general can come here and have the same experience I had in ‘04. Comments, Merch, etc. are fair game but if there was a big stop sign with a subscription fee when I first directed my browser here 4 years ago, I don’t think I would have learned a thing.
That’s not your responsibility, I know. But I have to believe that’s why you’ve kept doing this for five years. It’s totally changed the way I view my favorite sport and in the next five years I hope many will have the same experience that I have had.
I’d say don’t change a thing about what you do on the site, I come here daily for the analysis.
I don’t mind attempts to monetize the site at all, stick an ad banner at the top or below the comment box or anywhere you like that’s not overly done (obviously you already draw the line way short of this).
Making money off the internet isn’t easy at all, but it doesn’t hurt to try when you’re providing great content consistently to people who want to read it regularly.
Personally, i think a weekly post/blog/article by Dave or Derek available for free would be a great idea. Its obvious that those of us that visit everyday would be willing/happy to contribute a monthly, yearly, lifetime fee.
why not have a weekly article posted, with access to post available to those that are paid members? Drive by posters vanish, no bickering about posting ettiquette, and you will definitely pique the interest of those who read the free content, and hopefully draw in some more people you want sharing ideas and opinions on the site.
I’ll freely admit, i was one of those people who pointed out what seemed to me a serious over-promotion of “The Cheaters Guide”, but I am amazed anyone who calls themselves a baseball fan could not l;ove the book, it sits on my desk right next to “Ball Four”.
People seriously complained about you mentioning the book that you wrote… in your own blog? That’s ridiculous. And it’s even more ridiculous when you realize that Posnanski and Mnookin both throw in links to their books in just about every other post they write and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone complain to them about it (in the comments, at least.)
I personally love the blog. As a baseball fan living in Red Sox nation (the sox are my favorite team, but I refuse to call myself a fan due to not wanting to be associated with the morons/assholes that make up 95% of the Red Sox fanbase) I’m always looking for good outlets for information about teams that aren’t the Red Sox or Yankees. And this is definitely the best source of info on the Mariners that I have found anywhere.
I can’t believe that anyone can be so blinkered by political disagreement that they think Derek is hostile to newbies. (Though it must be refreshing for Dave to be the one who is apparently considered to be the nice guy.)
“A diverse group of readers” is an interesting way to say “me and people like me.”
I guess it can’t be said too many times: not every site is for everyone. This thread alone ought to make it clear how appreciated this site is by how many different kinds of folks. This site doesn’t need to attract more people — for crying out loud, look at the traffic numbers Derek posted. Scaring people away is not the barrier to making money here, however much you might want your personal objections to the site to be the reason.
Also, I agree with all the people who say they’d keep reading this site without comments.
I like comments — obviously — but the more popular a site becomes, the more troublesome comments get. I think the moderators are doing a great job, but I can’t blame Derek if he’s sick of reading all the stupid, insulting crap.
Here’s what I want from the site: more of the same.
And put the damn Paypal button back up and I’ll hit it. I don’t know if I’m up for $20 a month, but I’ve donated before and I’ll donate again.
As for anyone who says “you pimp too much” and all the other complaints: these people are WRONG AND STUPID. One of the things you have to learn about dealing with the general public on the internet is YOU HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO PLEASE EVER PERSON WHO BUMPS INTO YOU. Fuck ‘em if they don’t like the way you do it. The way you do it is EXCELLENT. They are wrong and stupid and deserve to be ignored. Bloomquist fans? Who cares what they think?
Your own statistics tell you that the current “obnoxious”, “thin-skinned” way of the site is tremendously successful. If you start going out of your way to accommodate every boob with a contrary opinion, you’ll lose your focus. The secret is to zap them out of the way with as little fanfare as possible. I think you do an excellent job of that. And of everything else. Insulting crap is just crap — you can’t take it personally.
Any poster who’s gotten his nose bent out of joint by the opinions expressed here, or by the way his loser opinions were moderated, can get stuffed. And every second you spend worrying about them is a second wasted.
You’re doing a great job.
Put the Paypal link up and I’ll prove it.
What Steve T said.
People can be wrong without being stupid, Steve. While there’s a point in your comment, it’s buried beneath some counterproductive hostility. You don’t ‘zap’ people because they disagree with you. You zap them because they’re being a belligerent nuisance and derailing discussions.
To strike down people because they don’t agree with you is a bad mindset to have, and one I would not encourage the writers of this site to have.
I’ve never posted before, and may not again, but I really enjoy the content of this site and visit as often as I can.
I wouldn’t change a thing and I’d consider donating from time to time.
I am the guy that set up the free hosting at digital.forest and the guy who encouraged the purchase of the server about a week later. Our tech support manager came in to my office a week or so in to our hosting and said, “The shared server with USSMariner on it keeps crashing after every Mariner game.”
I’ve taken Derek to a game to see Doyle play, I bought about 10 copies of the book for family and friends, and I’m sure I’ve used the beer purchase link a time or two. (love the book by the way) I have a USSM shirt, and I wear it often, including the gym where I see Bavasi once in a while.
In any case, I enjoy the posts and wouldn’t mind if comments were turned off, because I rarely read them anyway, and it sounds like a potential source of frustration for the writers.
Keep up the great work Dave and Derek.
Sure, but like Dave so often says, not all opinions are equal, and there’s been a lot of people showing up lately with ill-informed and poorly thought out opinions, which they pronounce from the mountaintop as if they are so self-evident that no factual backup is needed.
When they get challenged on it, the response is almost never “wow, I hadn’t thought of it that way, maybe I should rethink my position” or “let me go find a link that’ll help you understand what I’m talking about”; it’s nearly always “waah stop being mean to me!”
A certain amount of zapping is probably warranted for posts of that type, and honestly maybe that should be the approach that we take a little more than we do now.
To turn Derek’s post around a little bit, the number one thing that all of you could do to help this site run better is pretty simple: take the time to make sure that whatever point you’re asserting, you take an extra five or ten minutes to do a little research. Link to an article or two that supports your view. Give us a reason to take your opinion seriously.
That’s what Dave and Derek do (well, in their case it’s usually much longer than five or ten minutes) and it’s a large part of why this site has been so valuable; please do them, and all of us, the courtesy of trying to at least live up to SOME standard of support for your arguments, even if you’re not prepared to put in the amount of time and effort they do.
Thoughts:
It is scary thing about you being on for 5 years was that I fell onto this site not too long later. Weird to think about how fast time goes by.
I went to the Pizza feed at that school on the Eastside a few year back with a bunch of other randoms for the same reason you write and we read. Cause we all cared passionately about a stupid baseball team that has been pissing on our hearts for the last 30 years. Well, I am 27 now, so probably 24 of my years.
I have checked this site while on vacation in France and while on a boat in the Carribean and while visiting my inlaws in E Wa and on my cell phone. It is in my mind and fingertips, naturally like typing yahoo.com or us.imdb.com.
I have had the button on internet firefox since I found it.
I also don’t think I see the ads, cause they get blocked by Firefox’s Ad blocker.
I don’t comment often. I am ambivalent about the comments, at best.
I also agree with the tone of your post, a sense of exhaustion about the Mariners. I care, but I am finding it hard to care. Its like dating a girl for 10 years and hoping you can get a kiss, but each time waiting just a little longer. Gets tiring, really does.
At the same time, I went to Spring training and will go again and again.
I am watching a lot fo Devil Rays this year, and seeing Florida instead of Texas. I prefer the Rainiers above all these days.
For $, I think the NPR model works. One solid week of annoying begging. I donate each year. If anything, to get them to shut up, but mostly because they make the point that I am getting good service for free.
Maybe form a Non-Profit LLC, so we can write off donations and you can put the $ away as profit.
Or blow the site up for a while, see what happens to your passion and our passion. I love that kinda stuff. Make us work.
Write on and Right On guys.
I’d gladly pay $20 a year for access to the comments section of this site (or really, any access, just to help keep it going). And I’m unemployed (another frustrated English major who never made it to Sports Illustrated
Keep it up, and at least offer an easy way for those who do want to support it to snd a little cash!
Gomez, you keep saying people are pilloried merely for disagreeing. This is a straw man you are dragging to the discussion and setting on fire. It’s not what Steve said, and nothing in his post could be reasonably interpreted that way, unless you’re determined to do so in advance. You need to step back and actually read what people are saying, and free yourself from your idea of what people are saying.
Even though Dave bashed the living hell out of my P-I article the other day, I’m glad you’re around.
I think you’ll find–and are surely finding from this comment thread–that the negativity comes from a very, very small percentage of your readership. When you write a piece, 95% of people probably like it, but they aren’t going to say anything. It’s the 5% who hate it who will.
And least that’s what I told myself when Dave bashed the living hell out of my P-I article.
Go M’s!
Derek: As always, when I see you next I will buy you a REAL beer. But if you give me a PayPal donation button or a beer button at the end of posts, I’ll hit that too.
Second the notion that you need to show no shame in asking for money. Even if you don’t turn a profit, you should at least break even, and I know there is a core of people who would help you out in ANY way they can, just to say thank you, and money is just one of those ways.
My one request is that you pull yourself out of this funk by whatever means necessary – we need you. I thank you.
It is true that people are far more likely to comment in disagreement, and when they agree they’re likely to feel that they don’t have anything substantive to add.
It took all day, but I did think of something. I love the recommended reading tab and have bought and/or read most of them. I’d love it if it were updated more often. Maybe under a different heading where posters could recommend something (after appropriate vetting by Dave/DMZ/mods/history of recommender) so it wouldn’t be more work for Dave/DMZ.
I think that you could go with a system like dailykos.com has. If you become a subscriber ($100 lifetime, $40 yearly, or $4 monthly) you don’t see any ads. For those who want to support the site with hard cash and have disposable hard cash, that would be a great option. For others like me who won’t pay for content (sorry, it’s fantastic content, but I just wouldn’t pay for it), we will see the ads. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re not willing to pay, you should damn well be willing to put up with ads. I know I am. In the same vein, you could have a “buy us a beer” link on every post and I wouldn’t care. Again, the visual clutter is a price I’m willing to pay for phenomenal free content.
If that isn’t enough of a return on a subscriber’s investment, then make some of the articles subscriber-only (I’m thinking of the kind of posts that clearly take hours for you to put together, like Derek’s gigantic pre-Opening Day Mariner post-o-rama) or turn off commenting for non-subscribers. Even without those subscriber-only posts for tightwads like myself or commenting rights, USSM would still be the best Mariner site on the web, bar none. Don’t get me wrong, I do NOT want to lose the ability to read any of the content here, as I loved the post-o-rama, but that would be an option that wouldn’t drive me away.
This way, you can get some income, you can satisfy those who actually provide that income, and not alienate any readers who aren’t going to pay.
I haven’t read each and every one of the comments following your blogpost, DMZ, but I’d be happy to contribute some (small; I have a fixed income, being SS age) amount of dollars to help you and Dave, etc. continue the thoughtful content of USSM and its access to us baseball fans (especially us M’s fans).
Paypal works for me, but I’d rather trigger a monthly contribution myself than have it automatic.
Comment: Of all the Mariners message boards, other-teams-fans message boards, and blogs I’ve visited and been a regular at over the past 10+ years, this blog has shown by far the least tendency to dissociate into internet cliques and spiraling disagreements. It’s tough and time-consuming and wearying, I know, but you guys (along with the volunteers) do a great job. For that reason alone, I believe whatever I can afford to contribute would be well spent.
This is my first post, and I’ve been a USSM reader since 2003. I lived in Japan at the time, and yearned for more insightful, in-depth M’s writing online. USSM and Jeff (back when he was doing his San Shin blog) were my two sources, providing fodder for discussion with my baseball-loving friends in Japan. At the very least, I want to thank you for all your work. It’s been a great way for me to better understand my team and the game itself.
I’ve bought books that have been on the USSM book list, and certainly would do so if you updated that more frequently.
I seriously considered getting a USSM t-shirt when you rolled those out, and would love for you guys to revamp that effort. I’d pay for a USSM retrospective book– something that covered the bigger, more important posts over the years. Something along the lines of what some op/ed writers do with their collected works.
I hope that you can find that balance between making the site work for you as much as you work for it.
It’s not “counterproductive hostility”, Gomez, it’s PRODUCTIVE hostility. People who don’t get what USSM is about and make a stink about it are sapping Derek’s will to continue, and that’s unfair to all of us. They need to be zapped. I’m not talking about people who say “I think Sexson is a great first baseman”, I’m talking about people who say “Ritchey is teh awesome” and then get all bent out of shape when they get moderated.
People who get all bent out of shape for being moderated DO NOT CONTRIBUTE, period. We’re having a discussion here, and yes, different viewpoints are welcome, even ones that annoy Derek and Dave. But they are still contributing. The people who are moderated are asking for it. More importantly, Derek is using them in his internal calculation of “am I getting enough love to keep doing this?”, and that’s wrong. THEY DON’T COUNT.
“You don’t tolerate dissent” is not a contributory remark; it’s just air. It’s not true. “You’re being unfair” is worse. “You people just hate Willie”You pimp your book too much” is an irrelevant lie. People who make these kinds of remarks are stupid, or they’re trying to stir up shit.
I’m another person that has been reading this site pretty much since the beginning, and rarely post. I don’t know how many M’s fans I’ve pointed here, particularly around trade deadlines.
I love the insight you all provide, making me look at the game in different ways. It was great to be on the Felix bandwagon long before anyone else. I get jazzed whenever I see references to USSM in other sites – the highlight may have been when Slate referenced the Felix open letter.
What would I like to see? I think getting volunteer moderators was a good move. I like the sense of community here, and that really helped maintain good discourse.
Another suggestion – I know it is easier said then done, but “real” ads or sponsorship could be a good thing. Some sites look more professional with ads then many do without.
If you don’t want to do ads, do bring back the “buy the author a refreshing beer”. I have clicked on the “beer” link in the past, and have actually wanted to do it other times when it wasn’t there. It isn’t intrusive, and stikes me as even friendly. (If I saw any of you in a bar I would buy you a drink – maybe 2).
If you choose to make it a pay site, I probably would pay once, maybe twice, for all the great content you’ve given me over time. But I do know that before USSM came along, I read Rob Neyer and Baseball Prospectus every day. Once they went pay, I found other reads. Granted neither provides the same sense of community that USSM does, but I already spend too much time surfing.
Again – thanks for keeping up such a consistent level of content, and for starting a really great community.
PS – The pony pictures were a great touch this winter
The loss of this site would greatly reduce my enjoyment of baseball in the northwest. Last year I amazed my friends by predicting that Felix would start a game with 10 straight fastballs. I was able to appreciate that the Mariners were playing over their heads as they tried to make a race out of it. The statistical analysis provided is amazing and contributes to the fun I have following the Mariners. The so called negative player assessments have been realistic and just highlight how weak a job Bavasi has been doing with trades.
Keep up the great work Dave and DMZ.
I for one really appreciate the content you guys put up every day, and I am a frequent visitor. So thank you. I will also admit, in the interests of full disclosure, that I have never contributed and I rarely comment or participate in the discussion, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t.
I think that what’s really at stake here is the impact you guys have had on the fan base. That should not be underestimated. While it’s a slow-moving evolution, you can sense that the Seattle fans are becoming more educated about baseball. You can tell on the broadcasts that the bar has been raised a little bit. And yeah, at the end of the day, John Edwards isn’t the President, but he did move the chains a little bit and got people talking. Of course, it’s not totally analogous, but you get the point. More than that, though, you guys offer something that Mariners fans & the Seattle community need: a little diversity. If you turn on FSN on any given night, you just get the company line (Jose “Professional Hitter” Vidro, how great McLaren is…whatever). Team website, same thing. And despite some recent improvement in the beat writing, the M’s essentially get a benefit of the doubt from them too.
But there is something called the First Amendment out there, and the marketplace of ideas. Those of us who care about and follow the M’s all year long are tired of being fed crap by the John Hickeys of the world will have fewer places to go for enlightened discussion, and the no reason to ever get it right if there isn’t someone holding them accountable. Now, that might not be YOUR job, but you guys are doing it. I don’t think you have it totally right all the time, either, but your site is the only place where decent high-level discussion about the Mariners from a modern analytical perspective is taking place.
And since you asked (and only because you did) I will offer a few suggestions. For one, as a non-contributing leach of your site, I would be happy to make something of a contribution if it means that you guys keep writing and doing analysis. But once you start relying on people’s money, they start to feel like they have a piece of the site, like a political contributor (don’t be so MEAN to Willie Boom Boom, etc). You guys have to raise money, but on your terms. If you did an annual fundraiser of some kind (maybe a kegger or a carwash or something), then the money you raised would go toward something else, and not give people the idea that their money buys a piece of your site. You could also do a once-annually donation-a-thon like NPR or something. “Whatever you can give.” And then people know it’s that one time, it’s their opportunity to support you guys, etc.
Another idea is to combine forces with some other people and pool your resources a little more. Jeff Sullivan is the obvious choice, but maybe Churchill or whoever. The best part of your site is the “This is why this is a bad idea” or “Here’s a move we could make” type- posts. The more people who could get involved, and even debate with each other, would only improve the “marketplace of ideas” aspect to it. Maybe you could add the “best post of the week” of your critics or something like that.
But more than anything, you do have to ask for money or support or whatever if that’s what you need. I’m very willing to support you guys, but I never thought you really needed it, and I never really know what the money is going to. Maybe a newsletter to donors/members with a little VIP treatment and a subscription type of thing (an idea I saw above somewhere) would get you where you need to go. I know that wasn’t the best model for the New York Times, for example, but it could work for sites like yours. One thing about Churchill’s site is that I’m bombarded with ads and I can’t even see what he’s doing there without getting hit up for money.
A bigger push for fundraising, concentrated less frequently is the answer, in my opinion. Anyway, that’s my four cents.
As for all the criticism and jibberish you guys have to put up with, I don’t doubt it, but don’t let it get you down. I quote ‘Primary Colors,’ one of my favorite books: “This is the price you pay to lead.” You guys are leaders in the enlightened baseball/Mariners community and Seattle whether you like it or not. Your opinion matters. Don’t let the fact that people don’t agree with you wear you down. The community needs your opinion, even if it’s not always right. Because our alternative is John Hickey and Jim Street. And the reason you got into this in the first place was to call them out for sucking.
Let me assuage some fears here – I’m not going anywhere anytime soon, and I don’t anticipate USSM will close up shop in the near future. I haven’t talked to Derek about this post, but I’m pretty sure his point wasn’t to raise money. We really aren’t in this for the cash.
To answer the questions: I love the content. I want more of what you’ve already been doing.
If you need to raise funds, charge a nominal free (say, $10 per year for posting), and continue to allow free browsing. You can even allow 5 free posts per year or something if you want to continue to get random input from people. I can’t imagine that there aren’t 2,000 to 3,000 of your regular visitors who wouldn’t mind paying the fee – I rarely post, but it would be worth it to me for the content.
Thanks for all your work.
FWIW, I’m an A’s fan, but the content is so good it transcends team loyalty.
I’m a serious tightwad, but I would take on overtime work to contribute to USSM if that’s what it takes. Life, and more importantly baseball, would not be the same without you all.
I am one of the 6000 regular readers. (365 days a year). Love your writing, I would pay a small fee to maintain access to the site.
P.S Ignorant people will always lurk and try to bash your work. You guys have it right on almost all issues.
This is my first post to USSM and maybe my last. I’ve grown from an occasional to a regular reader because I appreciate the perspective, analytical depth, and sense of humor USSM provides. And the more taunting of Geoff Baker the better…its fun to see him get spun up a bit. Whether you sell GoogleAds, banners, or popups isn’t going to change my use of the site. And I really couldn’t care less if you pitch your book or even pitch your cookies on the blog. Have you ever watched one of those old TV shows where they blatantly step into pitch mode in the middle of a scene (”Gracie, you know this Carnation condensed milk is the best!”)? For good or bad, advertising is as much a part of the American fabric as baseball. I come to USSM because the content is great and the ad content isn’t going to change that one way or another. I mean, I go to espn.com sometimes and you know what an advertising rich environment that is. At the same time, I’m a cheap bastard and if you added a subscription I would probably stop visiting, just like I haven’t read any Rob Neyer content since he went behind the wall. I wouldn’t begrudge you adding a subscription or gripe about it, but I probably wouldn’t pay it either. That’s just who I am.
In the end, you need to do what is right for you to balance the financials with who you are and your personal needs/beliefs. Obviously, one of those is an un-naturally strong love of the Mariners….I hope you can find enough $’s out there somewhere so that you can continue to enjoy writing about the M’s.
(This is a long post … feel free to skip to the end for my answers to the posted questions … or ignore completely if need be.)
I’ve been a fan since ‘77. As a kid, I was the typical Mariners “fan” … I rooted strongly for them to win, enjoyed my M’s paraphernalia, and almost only ever went to a game because I got free tickets for getting good grades. My fanship ebbed and flowed over the years, although they were always the team I rooted for. However, with the turn-around of the team in the early-to-mid 90’s my connection with the team grew considerably. I remember Junior when he was Junior. Lou Pinella coming to town. I remember Randy pitching to John Kruk in the All-Star game. I remember being turned away from the game where the roof tiles fell. And, of course, I remember Refusing to Lose in ‘95.
Shortly thereafter, I left the Pacific Northwest for grad school in Illinois. I found it difficult to follow the M’s although alt.sports.baseball.seattle-mariners provided a modicum of communication with fellow fans (as did the occasional phone call to my dad and friends). In ‘97 I was back in Seattle and got to go to a few games again (my employer had a vendor who had great seats … I got to see one game from about 10 rows behind homeplate). Baseball in Seattle was changing. You could no longer count on walking up to the gate and purchasing a ticket. And a new field was on the way.
Safeco Field was pivotal in making me appreciate baseball, not just the Mariners. While not perfect, it was such a huge step to me in just going to enjoy a game. It was amazing to me the difference the new ballpark made, how much more I felt a part of what was going on. Safeco has a vibe to it, as I imagine one might feel in many other ballparks, and which the Kingdome never offered (at least, not to me). I even read a few baseball-oriented books. Mostly, though, of the humorous or fiction variety.
In the summer of 2000, I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area. My friends, the news, and infrequent trips up north kept me somewhat connected. But I desired more. I got to following a.s.b.s-m. Which at times was a lot of fun, but frequently … was just irritating. Then came 2001. I could swear this was when I started reading USSM. But I’m getting older, and I’ve never been good at placing things in a time frame. From the beginning, I found, when I had time to follow, the authors to be insightful AND enjoyable to read. By 2004, at least, USSM was my main source of Mariners news. And … it was teaching me about how baseball really worked. In a fromat that I could take. I haven’t read Moneyball, and probably never will, or anything Bill James has ever written. But at least over the last three years, I come to this site every single day to become a better Mariners and baseball fan.
To put a finer point on it … I’ve been a fan of the Mariners for over 30 years. But only in the last 4 – 5, through reading USSM, have I gained any real knowledge about the team and the sport. I’d have to guess that I’m not alone in this among your stable readership.
I don’t post much. When I do, it’s usually a flawed attempt at humor. I don’t read the comments on probably 85% of the posts. So I don’t know that I really feel a full part of the community. But I do feel a connection with the site, and with others who, though I’ve never met, I know are followers of the blog as well.
On the money side (even though you did not ask about this, I thought I’d add my comments to the masses) … as you indicated, I would not charge any fee to get the content. I’d back a small fee (if it is financially feasible for you … adding a too small fee becomes more work than it is worth) for posting privileges (I’m thinking along the lines of $5 – $10/year), as I find a lot of the comments not very helpful, and really do not think you would lose any significant readership by doing this. More ads would be fine (though I will echo no pop-ups or floating ads, please). A few fundraising drives each year, fine (in fact, I was wondering if those who were willing to donate tickets to you would be willing to allow you the option of auctioning or selling them as a way to support the site, if you chose). An always up donate button (or buy the authors a refreshing drink link) also fine. The only other non-commercial site I visit on a daily basis gives an option for donations to keep the site running. The author determined his monthly costs, and allows people to donate via PayPal. When they do, it automatically updates the site, which shows for how many more months the site will be able to run with the current donations. If you abandon the idea of making money, this would at least allow you to not lose it (because, I’m pretty confident you would get donations to cover costs).
As for your questions … here’s my answers, after making you read all that …
First, I thoroughly appreciate and enjoy the site as it is now. However, if I was given full control over the site? I’d add a forum area (with more volunteer moderators), where I’d allow much more random chat and where I’d put all of the game threads (they tend to be more fan-chat than any real analysis, from what I do read, though I don’t tend to read many of them unless I do so while following the game). Also, if you did this, you could allow free posting in the forums but charge the modest fee for posting comments in the blog. I’d look for a co-author who does good research but generally comes up with more alternate sides of the picture. Although I think the authors do disagree with each other, I think it is infrequent, and having someone who does the research work but more often comes to a different conclusion might even take the site to another level. Of course, it could be that there is a reason why those that are doing the research are currently coming up, generally, with similar thoughts … I’d also look to find other ways to have community members help. For example, maybe there is an accountant in the mix who could give some free advice on the tax implications of “earning” more money with the site.
I can’t answer this. I think only you can. But what I will say is only give what you are comfortable with. When you feel it becoming too much, find a way to back off. Please. For all of us
I think, in some ways, these may be counter-productive. At least currently
When you provide sound analysis that shows the concerns about the team and how it is run … that generally does not draw new fans to the team. Most people are probably more likely to become fans through the unbridled enthusiasm of others. I do think you have become a connection point for current fans. And, as I indicated above, at least for me, you have been incredibly important in the development of my baseball knowledge. Again, I think this is true of a large number of you readers, who in turn take that knowledge out and distribute it to more fans.
I can understand if you don’t read the entire post, but judging from past experience, I’d bet you will. I’m guessing that, if you are like myself and many others, despite over 200 posts praising and thanking you for what you’ve done, you’ve probably been caught most by the two or three that shared frustration with the site. It’s always easy to deflect positive feedback and focus on the negative. But just look at the ratio of negative to positive posts in this topic. Not quite as low as topic mention’s of the book, but it’s close
And think about this … at about 6,000 regular daily readers, and many, many more than that at times, your site has a much stronger following at 5 years than I’d guess the M’s had in 1982
One more thing (sorry, if you know me … this is very much me …)-
If the mod assistance has worked out (which, form my perspective, it has), what about having an email screener? Create an email for USSM that someone else can go through first to answer questions such as the Hotmail/AOL/etc. mess, and can screen out emails which are just plain nasty. This may also cut down on an area of work for you all where someone does not need analytical expertise or a good writing style to help the site be productive.
I probably stop by an average of once or twice a month, well, maybe a bit more. The reality is that I’m a Mariners fan because I’ve chosen to live my adult life in the northwest. The Brewers will always pull my heartstrings, and lord knows that’s all they’ve done for the last 25 years.
The fact is that, as a Brewers fan, I would love to be able to stop by a site devoted to the Brewers every day, even if that site was half as good as this one.
Granted, grief may come your way. That seems to be the manner of discussion on the Internet. The medium truly affects content, Marshall McLuhan believers or not.
Anyway, thanks for all your work.
Cheers!
Thank you Derek and Dave!
Keep doing what you are doing. This is a great blog! You have led me to books, Lookout Landing, Hardball Times, fangraphs, etc. etc., and many insights into the Mariners.
If at some point this is no longer fun for you I understand. I hope it stays fun for you for a long time.
Please ignore the people taking pot shots. I think a big reason for the pot shots is that this site has so much traffic and influence. Maybe another reason is that U.S.S. Mariner isn’t another mouthpiece for the Mariners.
Thank you for your great and interesting work.
When I first started reading this site, I wasn’t sure if I liked it or not. It made me think about things that I really didn’t want to think about. I wanted to be able to enjoy the team and my passion for the game without having to think about the statistical realities that the posts forced me to consider.
I found that the more I kept reading, it only enriched my enjoyment of the game. I would get even more excited when something that was statistically less likely occurred, sometimes to turn a game on its head in our favor. I work the afternoon shift and I’m relegated to listening to most games on the radio and refreshing the game thread at work to keep up with the conversation.
I appreciate this site so much. Please, keep the posts and game threads coming.
i read USSM everyday, but, as with every blog i read, i view it through a reader; that means i don’t actually visit the site and never comment. i don’t see why you wouldn’t put up more ads. i love the writing and analysis; that won’t change with ads up. and if more hits would mean more ad revenue for you all, change whatever preferences you have to so that i have to visit the site to read a whole post. i live in dc now, and the nats blog i read does that; i didn’t think i’d actually click the link to visit the site for every post, but i do because i want to read what is there.
i’d even probably pay a nominal fee — say $5/month to read (especially if it meant that you all could post more often!). i don’t care about posting. it seems like you all have a kinship with LL; maybe you all coule have some sort of package deal where membership to both sites comes at a discount. if you want to make money doing anything, you have to find ways to make people pay; very few people will do it just out of the goodness of their heart. but you have something worth paying for, so people will pay if you make them. don’t be afraid to make them.
Gentlemen:
I would like to share with you my thorough enjoyment of your site.
First, I was unfortunate to be born in Chicago. Cubs fan, I’ll admit. From reading the analysis on your site and the humorous yet passionate posts, I am jealous of the Mariner fan community.
I have become a fervent fan of many players just by reading USS Mariner. I follow every King Felix start, groan at each Richie Sexson strikeout, and take pride in Doyle’s solo home run last night (I now live in Philadelphia).
What I like most is the fact that, like many of the people who frequent your site or who enjoy baseball analysis in a manner that is above sports talk radio, you write it as a fan. So there is genuine, palpable pathos when a dunderheaded managerial move is made. There is elation at a well-turned double play. There is consternation in ill-advised free agent signings. But it is peppered with meaningful statistics, sound reasoning, and alternative explanations.
I prefer writing like this because this is how I experience baseball. Not as the know-it-all columnist nor as the dry statistician, though some value can be gleaned from both. Let me be one to say I appreciate your negativity when it is apt, your positivity when it is warranted.
Keep up the fantastic work. USS Mariner plays an important role in Seattle fandom.
I finally decided to register. What I have to say will sound much like what others have already written, but what the heck? I really enjoy USS Mariner. It’s fantastic to have a perspective that isn’t watered down by the Mariners front office, first of all. And though I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life, and even played for 10 years or so, I’ve learned TONS about evaluating teams and talent from USS Mariner.
There will always be those who confuse pragmatic and realistic evaluation with negativism, but I’d like to think most of us appreciate the analysis on this site with a much more open mind, knowing it’s coming from huge Mariners fans, and that everyone’s goal is a Mariners World Series.
I check out USS Mariner every day, for news, updates, game analysis, and a little humor. I wouldn’t honestly recommend that you change a thing!
Thanks for everything.
There’s a plan over at LL to buy Jeff Sullivan his annual MLB.TV subscription. Would you accept that, Dave, if we offered it?
This post was reason enough for me to register, finally, and drop a comment. The general sentiment in these comments is one of appreciation. Bottom line for me: who cares if I agree with every opinion you share; I read the RSS feed because the writing is great, the analysis is thoughtful, and it makes me think.
Unfortunately, I moved from Seattle 17 years ago, and until I found this site about a year ago, I felt very disconnected from my favorite team. Now, I get to read insightful commentary on the M’s on a daily basis. Truly… thank you.
Last thought – you write about all the effort you’ve given for the last several years and end the post with a question of how you could do more?!? Seriously?!? Fuhgetaboutit. I’d ask what we could do, but it seems pretty clear. I know I’m not alone in looking at the comments. It seems like it’s our turn to step up to the plate.
I hope you get this post even though I’m about a day late with it. As a writer (although I mostly write fiction) I understand that you two are not doing this gig for the money – unless you’re writing for TV or movies it’s not the most lucrative profession or hobby. However, there is no reason why a site this good should not generate revenue.
I don’t think ordering a whole bunch of swag is a good idea – too much overhead and then you really would have to promote it heavily. Some items might be hits, others might not sell at all.
I don’t think putting up advertising is completely necessary although it is one solution.
I don’t think creating a subscription service for posting is a good idea (and I get the sense that you guys don’t either.)
Here is what I propose:
Someone, 100 or so posts above me, suggested doing a campaign like NPR or PBS, which is the ticket.
Pick a two week period sometime during the season, (perhaps over the all-star break) and in every post and every game thread remind people that this is their only chance throughout the year to support you guys and the site, and that you will not be asking or accepting donations at any other time. Doing it in such a way tackles the biggest issue – people love to procrastinate. When we (the readership) know our window to show you (Derek and DMZ) some love is limited, people will magically spring to action. Also, you won’t have to feel sleazy about constantly asking for alms, because it’s limited to a predetermined time period.
There should also be a target that you want to reach and if you reach it before the two weeks are up, call the fund raiser.
During this two week period have 4 (or potentially more) ‘levels’ of sponsorship. 1st level – $5-40; 2nd level $40-80 and fans get Derek’s book; 3rd level $80-120 and fans get a sweet USSM sweatshirt; 4th level $120+ and fans get to go to a game in decent seats and maybe the Elysian or Pyramid breweries before with the two of you. Again, this would give people incentive to give more rather than less, but allow virtually anyone in the readership community to lend as much support as they feel they can/should offer.
Logistically, I would wait until the two week pledge drive was over to buy the baseball tickets and the hoodies(so you know how many to get) .
Then you guys should throw up a thank you post listing the screen names of everyone who donated, because everyone loves recognition after all.
That’s all. I would be more than happy to help with logistics as I’m sure would others.
hey guys,
i lurk here and rarely post comments. here are my thoughts.
you guys have a great site. i visit once a day. if it is a subscription site, i would not pay for it. sorry, there are other places and blogs i can read for this info. plus, as soon as you block your site from the general public a new blogger will pop up with info like yours for free. its the nature of the capitalism beast!
your avenue for revenue is through advertising. you should have advertising galore on here. you should talk to the guys at mlbtraderumors.com. yeah the site looks like nascar on the web. but, the content is so great it doesnt matter. you should have banners everywhere. if it annoys some people than send them to a secondary site that doesnt have ads and they pay a monthly subscription.
also, you should consider selling regular ebooks. preseason preview, mid-season report card, future forty, etc. i think you would bring in money from that side as well. i might buy one of those.
again, your content is great, so throw a crapload of ads on here and see what happens.
Agreed with the idea of having a annual or twice yearly fund drive.
“For just $99 you get this great USSM tote bag…”
I don’t comment often, but you’re site is required daily reading for me. Thanks for all you do. I don’t have any complaints or suggestions, I just enjoy the site. I think its made me a smarter baseball fan, or at least made me aware of different ways to look at the game.
Thanks for all you do!
First, I love the site. Daily visitor in and out of season. 2nd on ‘My Favorite’s’.
I started my working life at 11 years old and the last time anyone wrote me a paycheck I was 17. I have been self-employed for the past 31 years.
I find it INCONCEIVABLE that a site like this, with the daily unique visitor draw struggles for funds: this is do to philosophy, not opportunity. If I had the talent and ability to create this site, it would be a money maker.
You guys swing a bigger bat than you can handle. Bavasi shows up for your events because he’s nice guy? ( Well, he is, ran into him on opening day, offered him a bite of my Polish sausage.). He shows up because you drive informed baseball commentary in the Northwest. Guys, you way underate your value.
So many obvious sponsors. Newspapers have kept advertising and reporting seperated for years. Why not you?
1.Mariners. Click here for great ticket deals.(Hint: cut a deal.)
2.Every bar and restaurant around Safeco. Click here for coupons.
3.Parking. Click here to pay for convenient parking in advance.
4.Stub Hub. See #1.
5. Every single Mariners advertiser is appealing to the fan base. You influence part of the fan base.
Geez, how hard is this? You seem to not want to approach your success in an entrepeneurial manner and MAKE MONEY.
I’ll pay you for this site ownership and pay you for posting. Y’all have my e-mail.
Thanks again for all that you’ve created.
skipj
I am a life-long Yankees fan (3rd generation), and don’t really care about the Mariners. I found your blog while trying to find the Looney Tunes episode where Buggs Bunny takes on the Gas House something or others, and found your analysis of the game (one of the best pieces I’ve read on the net, by the way. I’ve read your blog semi-regularly ever since, and I hope it stays fun for you because you have one of the best baseball blogs out there. It’s too bad you love one of the most backward anti-sabermetric organizations in MLB, but I wish you and the Mariners well. Outstanding work. Ignore the fans who think you hate the Mariners because of your criticism; I don’t think they really know how to read.
you got the donate button up. Cool. The users have spoken!!
Nothing wrong with ads, man. Nothing wrong with earning money for your work. Ads make the newspaper business run. No ads, no papers. No one thinks they are “sellouts,” or whatever silly thing people want to call them.
It’s not a compromise, in my book. A compromise is when ads determine or influence content. So long as that is not happening, you and Dave et. al. are not compromising. So stop being silly and make some money! Y’all deserve it.
I rarely post here, but I probably stop at USSM at least 5 times a day. I spend 90% of my time on the Internet between here and LL. I have become a much more knowledgeable fan of baseball thanks to you guys. Your Future Forty updates are spectacular because in New York and Philly it is very hard to follow the M’s let alone their prospects. The post on how to evaluate pitching is one of the best and most informative works I have ever read. All of the content you guys provide should be required reading for any baseball fan. I am a college student and money is tight, so I would prefer it if you guys would use ads and donations to make it run. However, if I had to pay for a subscription I would because the content that you guys provide is worth the money.
Keep up the good work, you guya are much appreciated.
PS. I just donated so hopefully you can enjoy a few beers on me.