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Frank Thomas to the A’s
DMZ · April 24, 2008 at 10:03 am · Filed Under Mariners
Oakland will be on the hook only for about $337,000 — a prorated share of the $390,000 minimum — so this move was a bargain for general manager Billy Beane and a club looking to boost its power numbers.
If that’s all they gave up, this could frankly be astounding: they get his rebound year, let someone else eat the resulting FA contract, and get him back for prorated league minimum.
Prorated league minimum.
Depressed? Cheer up–
Comments
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Ugh. $370K v. Vidro at 20 times that. And Vidro’s option wouldn’t vest…
Sorry, meant $337K.
Because of that video, I have several friends who will no longer follow any links that I send them.
Tee hee.
Well, it could be worse. If the rumors that Bavasi was trying to lure Thomas with a 2009 option are anywhere near true, then this is yet another potential disaster avoided (even if it means a bit of a short-term sting)…
OOoh Muppets! Beaker!! How can Beaker’s Me! Me! not cheer anyone up.
Prorated league minimum.
This team needs corner outfielders that can actually play defense MUCH more than they need a quickly-aging right-handed slugger. Yes, it stings that he’s going to a division rival and that he’ll likely help them (and, in the same vein, hurt us). While we do need some power and OBP, we need outfield defense just as badly.
Seriously Willie AND Raul in the corners? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Well, here’s the thing. They need quickly-aging right-handed sluggers, too. They need a lot of things.
Did they get a draft pick from the Jays last time around? If they turn this into a pick it will be hilarious.
Maybe the M’s can sign Beaker to play left field.
Even attached to someone’s hand, he probably could play better defense than Ibanez, and he might have a good swing!
I don’t deny that he’d help. I don’t deny that this move “hurts”. But there’s other moves to be made, and while it sucks that Beane’s outsmarted us again, it’s pretty clear that Thomas would probably rather go back to Oakland than come to Seattle. If a player doesn’t want to come here, you can’t make him — especially when he has options elsewhere.
Maybe we could get Animal… I bet he’s capable of stealing ‘hundreds’ of bases.
Wow. League minimum for Thomas. Beane continues to shock and awe. And if they fall out of the race by the trade deadline and Thomas has shown he can play, they can trade him. Jesus. Why can’t we trade Bavasi and oh…..15 million bucks for Beane? Give Beane money to use, and I’m sure he could win rings.
Sigh.
Are you kidding?! I would have only cost the M’s 337,000?!!! This is just stupid. It would have been an obvious upgrade, at a discount price. I’m confused,to what the FO is thinking..
Not to be blasted for being Finnegan-esque, but I have to say that Mariner front office inaction on the Frank Thomas front and their spin over the issue (he’s right handed and old), coupled with Walt Jocketty’s elevation in Cincy, makes me more suspicious than ever that Griffey will get unloaded onto the Mariners by the end of the year.
Did you just Rick Roll us all?
Perhaps the FO believes he doesn’t have anything left. Maybe their right. Maybe their wrong. We will see.
That’s not cool Derek, not cool at all.
The M’s FO wasn’t thinking. I’m sure they offered Thomas a couple of valuable minor-leaguers, just out of habit, and it confused and worried him so much he picked up the phone and begged Beane to take him back.
how is it ‘outsmarting us’ if Thomas wanted to go back to the comfort of Oakland (where he did fine in the clubhouse) and where he knows he’ll be getting more ABs than he would here, not to mention more productive ones than as a batter in Safeco
Didn’t the A’s have some kid (Carlos Gonzalez?) down at Sacramento who was a potential call-up to DH?
Of course, since that would be at league minimum too and you’d be starting the clock on him, Thomas is a much better deal.
oh, and just because … Rick on being Rolled, not to mention the Mets.
Billy Beane is hilarious. He somehow managed to manipulate a future market to his advantage. I can’t stop laughing.
In other “The A’s keep getting better in small ways because Beane never sleeps” news, the M’s won’t have Saarloos to kick around anymore (designated for assignment) and they grabbed Rajai Davis off waivers from the Giants (possibly as a replacement for Buck, who might be headed for the DL). At least Harden won’t be back for this weekend’s meeting.
Joser, Carlos Gonzalez is a Centerfielder/Long-Term Right Fielder. If the A’s called him up, it would be to take over the Centerfield job from the Ryan Sweeney/Chris Denorfia platoon.
But it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks when Travis Buck gets off the DL. I know that Braden will be sent down when Duchscherer comes back, but the position player angle is rather complex. Jack Cust has been struggling a lot, and hasn’t adjusted to getting nothing but curve balls yet. But of the 3 DH’s (Sweeney, Thomas and Cust) he’s the only one who can play the Outfield, and under club control past this year. All three are making the League Minimium, all three can be productive, so who is the odd man out when players get back from the DL? It might not even be Sweeney who gets cut, but the newly acquired Raja Davis. And what about if/when Chavez comes back?
Wow, BART is overflowing with fans heading out to A’s games! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE35onlIySk
How does Kenny Lofton not have a job? Why can’t the M’s just sign this guy and move Raul to DH. The move I guess makes too much sense for Bavasi to take action.
I am so sick of Jose Vidro, he is not an AL DH, not even close. Any other team in baseball would have realized this in the off-season.
Muppet rickroll = epic USSM win.
Any other team wouldn’t have traded for him in the first place.
In letting Thomas walk as a FA, the A’s were able to draft Corey Brown, who’s currently hitting .316/.404/.592 in the Midwest League.
Life is good, Mariners need to deal for Frank Catalanotto or Milton Bradley! They both have had injury concerns but would they not be better than what we have now???
Well one thing left to do.
Is it just me, or does Thomas’s getting hired so fast make Bonds’s unemployment look ever so slightly more ridiculous?
Hey it doesn’t matter about Thomas, because Bonds [apostrophes are not used to indicate plurality] is still out there and any sane organisation would want to add him. Aren’t I right?!
32
No, it’s not just you.
I’m fine with not signing Thomas AS LONG AS we get better outfield defense and move Vidro. If that doesn’t happen, then someone might have to put me on suicide watch.
We’ve had the Bonds discussion before.
It’s more likely that the Mariners will sign Beaker to DH than Bonds.
You can disagree with the logic (and I’ll agree with you) but it’s not happening.
What a deal for the A’s… Ridiculous.
It is even worse looking around the American league and seeing a team like Detroit (granted, they started slow) with the Offensive firepower of the US Army — I think they have 4 or 5 HR’s already today after that 19 run bombardment last night. Even with our pitching … how can we compete with the true contenders (Yankees, Boston, Angels, Detroit, Cleveland etc..) pitching and hitting?
I am surprised there is such great gnashing of teeth over this signing. It is a good thing we didn’t sign Thomas- he would’ve limited roster flexibility. The easiest upgrade for the M’s to make is find a LF who can hit and field, moving Raul to DH. Signing Thomas, while improving the DH spot, eliminates the ability to move Raul to DH. So while you improve the club incrementally, you eliminate the ability to significantly improve this club.
-sigh-
The A’s get better for basically nothing, whereas our GM and field manager seem to think Willie Bloomquist is a good platoon partner for Brad Wilkerson, now that Mike Morse is out for the year.
39
I think the idea is that this was a move that some of us considered more likely than what you’re proposing. I doubt you will get any argument that moving Raul to DH would be a better overall move.
The Mariners front office doesn’t think that Ibanez’s outfield defense is a problem. Perhaps they are too busy Rick Rolling themselves to actually watch the games, I don’t know.
So, Thomas would’ve been a solution to upgrading DH that would have worked within the realities of how the Mariners see their team; while Ibanez to DH and a legitimate MLB outfielder would be a better overall solution, it’s just not very likely.
The funniest thing about this is that the A’s really don’t need Thomas. With Sweeney and Cust both DHs, they don’t have room for him. Granted, Cust may be cooked and Sweeney’s grasp on not-cooked is tenuous, but still… This appears to be an example of Beane seeing a huge bargain and not being able to pass it up, notwithstanding his existing roster. Meanwhile, the M’s, who need a real DH more than any other team… Funny.
Well, I am certain Bavasi would’ve signed Thomas on two conditions:
-He floundered or underperformed for several seasons somewhere
and/or
-He’d agree to take some huge salary based on his ‘make-up’, ‘professional hitting’, or some other press conference appraisal.
Beane’s pretty smart, Frank Thomas is a pretty big dude to essentially become a ‘boomerang’… That he got him back for less money than he signed for a couple years ago is astonishing. Beane looks good either way, Toronto looks good only if he collapses. It’s worth a shot at $337k. Thomas isn’t done, this deal is the sort we should be making… Not Brad Wilkerson for $3 million or Ho Ramirez, Miguel Cairo…. Bavasi overpays for immediate need… I agree, give Beane $107 million bucks and see what he does with it. I guarantee his teams are in the post season with that kind of moolah.
couldn’t agree with that statement more.
Bavasi’s track record consists of one bad move after another, with only a few *questionably good* moves. The guys on KJR made a great point last nigh:
“Hi, I’m Buzz Bavasi’s son. Can I get a 110 million dollars to shipwreck the Mariners, after I’ve shipwrecked every other team I’ve been apart of?” That guy makes me sick.
Actually, the lyrics to “Never Gonna Give You Up” are remarkably representative of the front office’s philosophy on washed up veterans. They’re so busy not giving up on Vidro, they don’t have time to pick up another potentially washed up DH (I read and agree with the opinion that Thomas has gas left in the tank, I just think with our luck he would really underwhelm as soon as we put him in the lineup).
Unfortunately, I must concur with Jeff’s comment in #42. If the M’s truly did see Ibanez as a problem in the field, they could have and would have done things to rectify it. It would take a seismic shift in how the M’s operate for them to acquire an OF (Lofton via FA, Winn, Bay via trade, etc.) and move Ibanez to DH.
Derek, that was awesome. Thank you. Just what I needed.
Really the only way that management moves Ibanez to DH is if Ibanez himself says he needs to be moved to DH.
Thomas is already clogging Oakland’s bases.
Glad we passed.
hcoguy
So what? We’ve got a DH who clogs the bases and hits for -no- power.
I wonder if Raul could be a better fielder at first than Sexson?
Can someone point me to a source that has total balls hit to the outfield by team, along with the percentage of those that were turned into outs?
Well at least we can go watch the hometown 9 struggle to hit tonight, at least we have Washburn on the bump … oh yeah another great signing by Bill ‘LightYear’s Son’ Bavasi.
Billy Beane is good. We all know that. But I think we should stop acting like he’s brilliant for manipulating this deal.
This deal was so obvious for every team looking for an upgrade at DH (M’s and A’s being the main two) that it has to go down as a failure by Bavasi rather than a success by Beane. You get a HOF DH for absolutely nothing. It makes sense that Bavasi would try to turn it into a two-year deal and somehow send prospects to the A’s, Angels or some other team destined to beat us now and in the future.
This deal would have made the offense better in so many ways I don’t even want to think about it. Too painful.
32 - not really, would Bonds play for a prorated league minimum? No…
I think the best part of the Thomas acquisition is that it might provide more opportunities for Jack Cust to play in the outfield, increasing the comedy potential of any Athletics game by 173%.
And Thomas can clog my bases anytime he wants.
And the A’s score in his first inning back…
I know you guys all love that video that Derek posted … but if you want to laugh again watch this Video made by some M’s fan on YouTube. It’s called “I want Sexson Gone” sung to the tune of “Sexy Back” by JT.
I know you will enjoy.
Clogging bases what?
*strangling noises*
meant to say score 6.
Good point eternal.
Thomas is in Oakland for 10 minutes, and what happens? He walks and scored in a six-run first inning against Francisco Liriano.
I have a feeling this deal is going to be the gift that keeps on taking.
58 - …and Liriano didn’t make it out of the 1st
BrianL - but Ibanez is very unlikely to request a move to DH, any more than Vidro is to request that he be benched because he couldn’t hit a beach ball out of a sandbox (with the wind behind him).
It’s McLaren’s job to tell the team what to do and and Bavasi’s job to construct a roster that gives McLaren the best chance to win.
A mindnumbingly risk-averse strategy of both “hire the veterans (no matter the cost)” and “play the veterans (until their own mothers see that they’re washed up)” has killed this team for years.
Sorry. Preaching to the converted. Just venting.
Evan is right. This was a brilliant move. Beane didn’t pick Frank up to make a run at the division title he picked him up, taking a cheap ass risk in the process, to flip him to a contender this summer. Amazing.
Colm -
Someone over at LL mentioned that Ibanez was expecting/wanting to play at DH this year. Unfortunately LL is down (again) so I can’t go off and cite that information. I think he realizes that he’s not physically capable of playing the outfield every day.
Yes, Thomas drew a walk and scored a run in his very first inning of play. Walks and runs are baaaaaaad.
RE #50
I think it’s a sarcastic remark.
Sorry, didn’t think it was that subtle
Oh, okay. Sometimes it can be hard to tell.
That was the sound of me strangling, anyway, not the sound of me trying to strangle you!
A’s fans don’t know just how good they have it. Once they get the new stadium, I can only imagine what sort of team the A’s will be. And as a Mariners fan, I am scared of that day coming.
I am hoping the team acknowledges that their corner outfield now is just terrible defensively (Just look at Willie’s “webgem” last night), and right field there is a gaping hole. Would anyone agree that bring up Wlad to play RF and trading for a LF and sticking Ibanez as full time DH would make this team loads better. I feel like I am pipe-dreaming though, seeing that this team never seems to make any rational moves before its too late.
Walked again. He didn’t even swing that whole at bat. Vidro could teach that HOFer a thing or two about being a professional hitter.
The Rick Roll/Muppets combination is awesome. Almost made up for the fact that we still don’t have a DH.
Yes, Thomas drew a walk and scored a run in his very first inning of play. Walks and runs are baaaaaaad.
No doubt about it. They ruin Chemistry (TM), and kill rallies. And so forth and so on.
Two walks in his first game could either be a very good example of “old player skills”, or it could be a very good example of SSS theater.
I’m glad we didn’t get him, we need to be getting rid of old veterans on the dowhill side of their careers, not adding them.
Also, LL being down today made me a sad panda.
not something that I can find out of Ibanez’ own mouth.
IIRC they had it linked on LL, but I could be mistaken.
Anyone know what’s going on with SBNation? Field Gulls and LL have had a ton of downtime lately.
I’m not so sorry about Frank Thomas. Is it true Boston doesn’t love Coco Crisp anymore? I’d like: Coco Crisp in left, Wlad in right, Ichiro center and Clement’s bat in the lineup every day as either DH or catcher. I’d offer 2 ponies and a Kermit for Coco.
Oh, we know how lucky we are, believe me.
As long as the M’s are committed to Vidro as DH (and a full-time one at that), it’s hard to see where they will get the flexibility to improve.
I wasn’t really a fan of Thomas. If we could have gotten him for prorated league minimum its just stupid not to. We would actually save money. Thomas at $337K - Pepe’s vesting option= Good GM.
I heard that Thomas had to play for the pro-rated league minimum if he signed somewhere else this year because he already had a contract in place this year and was released from it. The negoticating part was what he would be paid the following year.
Can anybody confirm this, because if it’s true it would appear Thomas just prefered going back to Oakland.
I just turned on this game on ESPN’s GameCast. Frank is 0-3 w/ 2BB, BTW. The funny thing is, most of the Oakland players are wearing caps from other teams in their photos. It’s like watching the all-star game…except with no all-stars.
could we not assume that the Ms FO didn’t even try to get Thomas until we actually know that they didn’t?
Can an imbedded youtube link be a rickroll? Meh, whatever, I hadn’t seen this one yet and it’s well done.
Although “rickrolling” is the internet equivalent of tapping someone on the opposite shoulder while walking past them. It’s kinda funny the first couple of times, but after a while you just want to punch the sumbitch in the face.
It’s not true that Thomas had to pay for the prorated minimum. He was free to sign whatever contract he wanted. The issue is that the Jays were on the hook for paying the difference between that contract and his contract with them for this year.
Technically, rickrolling would have been saying “Here’s the ESPN story” and linking to the video. That would have been jerky, and that’s why I didn’t do it.
Embedding it on the page doesn’t count in my eye.
Got this from JerBear in the Blue Jays Release Frank Thomas comments:
“His all-around game has been outstanding,” manager John McLaren said. “His defense, his throwing arm, the way he is running the bases. He has looked really, really good.”
Here’s the original link (on the M’s team site).
Much as I would love it, they are not moving Ibanez out of left. Can we make this an FAQ?
Ok, thanks for the explanation. That makes sense, but then you could make the argument that this years’ contract was no issue to Thomas, so he could just use to play wherever he wanted with money not being an issue.
I’m not trying to defend the M’s FO here, just trying to understand what may have actually happened. Personally I wasn’t a big fan of signing him, I’d rather see them go for Lofton or stay within the organization for a DH/LF replacement.
I think the Ms didn’t sign Thomas precisely because he is still going to be productive. When the Mets release Carlos Delgado we’ll be all over him.
I’m not saying that the front office is deliberately sabotaging our chances. Rather, they are drawn pathologically and self-destructively to players who have or are about to fall off the cliff. Has something to do with trauma in childhood.