Laugh, cry, your pick
Scraps wrote in yesterday’s comments:
Is Jeremy Reed really so bad that we think Willie is a better option in RF?
No, Reed is really so bad that Willie is a better option on the bench, because Willie can play multiple positions and Reed can’t, and Reed is only a marginally better hitter. (You don’t need both Willie and Cairo, but that’s another issue.)
I don’t understand where the fascination with Reed comes from at this point. When he was here, everyone wished he wasn’t. Now I guess we’ve forgotten how bad he was. 840-odd plate appearances, .314 onbase, .366 slugging, 17 for 32 as a base stealer, not making anyone forget Mike Cameron in the outfield. He’s a AAA player. Sure, he’s 27, so maybe it’s time for him to have one decent year, convince management that he’s finally reached his potential, get an overpriced contract, and go back to sucking. I figure that’s the best-case scenario.
Good points. I wanted to point out though that today, a .316 OBP and .366 slugging percentage would make Reed clearly a better offensive option than three players who started Opening Day:
Jose Vidro, .264/.310
Brad Wilkerson .302/.244
Kenji Johjima .268/.246
…in addition to being a better option than both Bloomquist and Cairo in the outfield.
I’m not sure I’d categorize Bavasi as a good evaluator of talent. Unless by “good” you mean “bad”. Are you trying to trick me?
Bob Fontaine (not LaFontaine) rocks, though, and if Bavasi could get just a little smarter, it’d be worth putting up with him to keep Bob in the organization.
Sorry,
Bavasi sucks as a GM and talent evaluator. He got his first job due to nepotism and the insular baseball community… Once you get your first job, you’ll get another because it’s hard to find somebody with experience, they like somebody with experience… That it’s hard to get this sort of experience compounds mattes. It was a gamble to take on a guy like Theo, he’s transformed the entire organization and his teams have won two titles.
The only explanation is the charge that is levied at the Bruins owner:
-It’s better for long-term profit if you are consistently alright. Being too good costs money, raises expectations for each successive year, etc. Salaries rise, any drop-off and you stop selling tickets, ESPN doesn’t pay to broadcast your games, etc. If you suck outright, you’ll lose out entirely
So…
-Perhaps we are just good enough to be profitable, Bavasi’s been at the helm for most of that. The organization cared when attendance dropped, stopped caring with a good season…
-Maybe they don’t really care about making the play-offs or winning a championship
#38 (MSB)
In the final analysis, you have it precisely right. Although I, and many others who visit this site, may long for the team to change its failed team-building philosophy, any such change would have to start with the owners.
My dream is they would replace Bavasi with a Billy Beane clone. My fear is that they would replace Bavasi with a Bavasi clone.
#51 (Jeff Nye)
“if Bavasi could get just a little smarter, it’d be worth putting up with him to keep Bob in the organization.â€
I think it is more realistic to hope that Bloomquist hits 40 dingers this year as the replacement right fielder.
Is there any way that Fontaine would be willing to stay if we bumped him to Assistant GM? Or is his loyalty to Bavasi to strong to break?
[Cairo] is making 850,000 dollars this year and one hundred percent not returning any investment.
Which is less than 1% of the payroll. But he’s taking up 4% of the roster. That is the problem.
But, as I’ve said before, if had this level of self-introspection he probably wouldn’t be where he is today (or he would’ve realized long ago that he had a weakness and worked on it, in which case the team wouldn’t be where it is today). Operating at a level where you’re signing contracts involving tens of millions of dollars (which happens to be a significant percentage of your company’s total operating budget) is hard enough, doing it in the public eye the way sports execs do is harder still. You have to have a tremendous amount of ego to insulate you from self-doubt.
And those of you new to USSM, you can do a little searching on Fontaine to find the authors’ opinions (such as this).
Why would Fontaine want to be assistant to somebody he may not know/like when he could just be an assistant wherever Bavasi lands next?
That’s a risk though… After Bavasi’s performance here, he may not find another job.
you are absolutely correct here. The only reason he has a job is because of his father, Buzz. It is quite disgusting.
Is there any way that Fontaine would be willing to stay if we bumped him to Assistant GM? Or is his loyalty to Bavasi to strong to break?
I don’t think that’s a job Fontaine would want. He’s an excellent scout, and I suspect he wants to keep doing what he’s best at.
If ever we do fire Bavasi, we should wait until after the draft that year to do it.
What makes people think that this organization would do anything EXCEPT hire a Bavasi clone??????
If you watch the organization, it’s clear that the GM is an expression of the club’s philosophy on player evaluation and talent. NOT the other way around. Without Bavasi, they’re not going to do a damn thing different–their whole philosophy is stuck in the wrong century–the 19th Century–and replacing the GM is not going to change it.
I’m not asking Jeremy Reed to make the All-Star team. I’m asking for him to be available, so that when we have Willie Bloomquist up in the eighth inning of a one-run game, we can pinch hit Greg Norton and still have someone who can actually field right field in the ninth.
If Miguel Cairo is supposed to be mentoring Jose Lopez, give him a coaching job.
60: I agree with you entirely. The only two times this club ever made hires out of the mold of the “we play them one day at a time” were when they hired Lou and when they hired Gillick. In both cases, they had their backs up against the wall–trying to get the new stadium and knowing they’d have to trade Griffey. The moment they felt safe again, they brought in the gang that couldn’t shoot straight again. You’re not going to see a Beane clone, you’re going to see a Woody Woodward clone.
Yet another hilarious reason as to how BADLY Bavasi has shipwrecked our team. I laugh because I don’t know what to do and can’t cope with the fact that I looked up above RF last night and saw: 95 Division Champs, 97 Division Champs and 01 Division Champs. NO PENNANTS NO TITLES. IT IS DISGUSTING WE ARE WASTING SAFECO FIELD LIKE WE ARE.
what is wrong with our ownership group right now? this is a clear top down problem.
A different GM could alter the philosophy of the team… This is an organization that needs a change of leadership, everybody can see it.
Um, no. It goes higher than that.
Try President and owner rep.
Well, joser, I didn’t say that scenario was particularly LIKELY, just that it’d be the optimum.
And, by the way…the evaluation of talent doesn’t stop with just Bavasi. He’s not the only person looking at players. You have to consider the rest of the organization that’s missing on all these player evaluations….
Is Bob Fontaine really that good? He drafted Clement over Tulo and pretty much every other stud in the ’05 draft and there is the Morrow thing. I guess Morrow has just been mishandled but I wouldn’t mind Lincecum right now.
I don’t know, convince me…
The Mariners are experiencing an identity crisis. It seems like the team’s almost good enough to contend right now, but they’ve got several guys holding them back (Vidro, Wilkerson, etc.) and have caught a few bad breaks so far (injuries to Bedard and Putz, playing the O’s when they’re hot, etc.).
But the problem is identity. Does Bavasi want to contend now — yes. But it’s like he has no sense of history or a plan how to do it. Last year the hitting was bad, the starters weren’t great, but the bullpen was good enough for a respectable season. This year the starters are good, the hitters are bad, and the bullpen is not good enough to hold leads for Putz.
Bavasi is trading one phase for another while continuing a trend of getting older across the board. Thus, in a few years, this team is going to be terrible.
I choose cry.
This org is hilarious.
Looks like Johjima’s great start is about to rewarded:
Morrow was a slotting issue and yeah, he’s been mishandled. Clement was apparently a case of drafting for need, not according to ability (perhaps a poster child for why that’s never a good idea). In other words, however good Fontaine might be he can’t overcome orders from above. He can make recommendations, but the team can decide to do something else.
So would a LOT of other people. Check out what this site said about the two around draft day.
68 – Maybe if we show up to The Safe with pitchforks and torches chanting crazy things something will change. Seattle sports, Seahawks aside *barely* are in SHAMBLES.
crying inside
So that makes Clement, what — trade bait?
75 – from todays LA Time
Here is the article if you are interested
Yeah, Clement looked pretty good, and it’s not like a lot of the other retrospectively “obvious” stars of the draft looked quite that awesome at the time.
Another ridiculously upsetting comment to read after last nights game. This time Ichiro stepping up to the mic … he knows something is severely wrong.
I feel you Ichi
Clement will take over at DH next year and spot start at 1B and maybe C. I’m hoping they clear the Richie contract and Vidro’s doesn’t vest. I know I’m dreaming here.
I would love to see Texiera or Ryan Howard in Mariner blue even at the 24 mill that Vidro and Richie take up.
I guess if the M’s are out of it near the trade deadline maybe someone will be interested in Ibanez or Washburn. Our only problem is our solution to our outfield woes is wearing #10 for Baltimore :(.
I’m thinking Wlad will probably play right and maybe, just maybe, they could get a usable part for Ibanez if we’re out of the running by then.
Okay, let me throw the same reason out we always cite in this discussion: the draft is coming up. Lose Bavasi, the draft is toast.
Well, actually, when it comes to the ever-important first round picks, CHowArmLinStrong actually control the pick (see Miller, Andrew).
I don’t want to discredit Fontaine — he’s an excellent and important part of this organization, but in Churchill’s 2008 Handbook, there’s an interesting little section on who Churchill sees as the top-10 most important people in the organization (including players, coaches, scouts, front office folks, etc). I won’t spoil the beans, but I agree 100% with Churchill that Bob Engle has been more important to this organization than Bob Fontaine.
As guys like Clement and Morrow (and Tillman and Butler, oh, wait, dammit!) matriculate, the debate becomes less one-sided, perhaps — but most of the players that have currently matriculated from within the system (or are close to doing so) have come from Engle, not Fontaine. Fontaine has definitely helped the system — I won’t deny that. But Engle’s still likely to be around and pulling superstars out of his you-know-what (Felix, Triunfel, etc…).
I think we’re about to see Clement at DH in the majors, actually. There’s just no way they’re going to let Vidro’s option vest, or let him continue to “hit.” The Johjima extension seems like a pretty strong indicator of the M’s thinking on the matter.
Unless Joh falls off the proverbial cliff (which let’s acknowledge has a non-zero probability of happening, he’s getting old for a catcher), he’s an above-average hitter at the position for a below market price. If it’s two years and a club option, I’d do that in a second.
I don’t get the Texiera lust.
Anyway, there’s always an aging/slowing/hurting somebody who can be slotted into 1B/DH. Paying big bucks for those positions is just a waste of money unless you’re already loaded at every other spot.
82 – Joser, I completely agree with you … although it would be nice to have an awesome lefty power hitter. I agree Texiera is not the call … although Howard … there is no way he will become a Mariner … right?
Baltimore is not hot. They’re just beating the Ms like a drum. The O’s are 7-8 against the rest of the league.
I thought Cairo was on the team so they could pinch run Willie and still have someone on the bench who
was willing tocould play any position. But I’m not sure which reason would be a bigger waste of a roster spot.I have a lot of respect for Bill Bavasi as a man, and from everything I hear, I’d respect him as a boss, but his roster moves are, on balance, not good.
If Clement becomes a 1b/DH, that’s another first round draft pick wasted. A left-handed catcher who can hit is rare and valuable commodity. A left-handed first baseman/DH who can hit is nice, but, unless he projects as a superstar, hardly worth such a high pick in the draft. And I’ve never heard that Jeff Clement was the next Ryan Howard or Prince Fielder.
It will be recalled, btw, that Texeira was projected to go first, but fell to Texas based on signability, but he was a third baseman, not a first baseman before he was blocked by Hank Blalock.
I doubt anyone is still checking this thread but JSpektor, I would do Beltre’s contract over in a heartbeat. That guy is a beast and I hope we sign him to an extension with similar $$$s being fine by me.
Actually, Bavasi signed Cairo because Mac asked him to.
Not defending him but if we are going to tear him down on that, let’s lay the blame at the feet of the guy who begged for Willie II.
I am not as sour on Bavasi as others. He does seem to have an eye for scrapheap finds and that gives him points. His FA signings reek of Chuck & Howie. A GM should defer to his field manager up to a point. Problem with Bill is he seems to give his field managers too much rope.
Correct me if I am wrong but Sean Green was a Bavasi find, right? Norton wasn’t a bad low risk signing (if Mac would just use him). Burke and Dickey qualify as well.
The pros seem to be that Bavasi CAN evaluate talent it’s just that there seems to be a cast of characters he defers to when making his decisions (I could be wrong). He seems to be a consensus guy as well. Bob Fontaine qualifies as a pro as well. Bavasi’s drafts have been good. Too bad he traded most of them away.
The cons seem to be his love of all things gritty and then overpaying for them. I’d also say his loyalty to his field managers (Hargrove & Mac) counts too.