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	<title>Comments on: Laugh, cry, your pick</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: byronebyronian</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263974</link>
		<dc:creator>byronebyronian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 01:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263974</guid>
		<description>Actually, Bavasi signed Cairo because Mac asked him to.

Not defending him but if we are going to tear him down on that, let&#039;s lay the blame at the feet of the guy who begged for Willie II.

I am not as sour on Bavasi as others.  He does seem to have an eye for scrapheap finds and that gives him points.  His FA signings reek of Chuck &amp; Howie.  A GM should defer to his field manager up to a point.  Problem with Bill is he seems to give his field managers too much rope.

Correct me if I am wrong but Sean Green was a Bavasi find, right?  Norton wasn&#039;t a bad low risk signing (if Mac would just use him).  Burke and Dickey qualify as well.

The pros seem to be that Bavasi CAN evaluate talent it&#039;s just that there seems to be a cast of characters he defers to when making his decisions (I could be wrong).  He seems to be a consensus guy as well.  Bob Fontaine qualifies as a pro as well.  Bavasi&#039;s drafts have been good.  Too bad he traded most of them away.

The cons seem to be his love of all things gritty and then overpaying for them.  I&#039;d also say his loyalty to his field managers (Hargrove &amp; Mac) counts too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Bavasi signed Cairo because Mac asked him to.</p>
<p>Not defending him but if we are going to tear him down on that, let&#8217;s lay the blame at the feet of the guy who begged for Willie II.</p>
<p>I am not as sour on Bavasi as others.  He does seem to have an eye for scrapheap finds and that gives him points.  His FA signings reek of Chuck &amp; Howie.  A GM should defer to his field manager up to a point.  Problem with Bill is he seems to give his field managers too much rope.</p>
<p>Correct me if I am wrong but Sean Green was a Bavasi find, right?  Norton wasn&#8217;t a bad low risk signing (if Mac would just use him).  Burke and Dickey qualify as well.</p>
<p>The pros seem to be that Bavasi CAN evaluate talent it&#8217;s just that there seems to be a cast of characters he defers to when making his decisions (I could be wrong).  He seems to be a consensus guy as well.  Bob Fontaine qualifies as a pro as well.  Bavasi&#8217;s drafts have been good.  Too bad he traded most of them away.</p>
<p>The cons seem to be his love of all things gritty and then overpaying for them.  I&#8217;d also say his loyalty to his field managers (Hargrove &amp; Mac) counts too.</p>
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		<title>By: SpokaneMsFan</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263956</link>
		<dc:creator>SpokaneMsFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 00:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263956</guid>
		<description>I doubt anyone is still checking this thread but JSpektor, I would do Beltre&#039;s contract over in a heartbeat. That guy is a beast and I hope we sign him to an extension with similar $$$s being fine by me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt anyone is still checking this thread but JSpektor, I would do Beltre&#8217;s contract over in a heartbeat. That guy is a beast and I hope we sign him to an extension with similar $$$s being fine by me.</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263914</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 21:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263914</guid>
		<description>If Clement becomes a 1b/DH, that&#039;s another first round draft pick wasted. A left-handed catcher who can hit is rare and valuable commodity.  A left-handed first baseman/DH who can hit is nice, but, unless he projects as a superstar, hardly worth such a high pick in the draft.  And I&#039;ve never heard that Jeff Clement was the next Ryan Howard or Prince Fielder.   

It will be recalled, btw, that Texeira was projected to go first, but fell to Texas based on signability, but he was a third baseman, not a first baseman before he was blocked by Hank Blalock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Clement becomes a 1b/DH, that&#8217;s another first round draft pick wasted. A left-handed catcher who can hit is rare and valuable commodity.  A left-handed first baseman/DH who can hit is nice, but, unless he projects as a superstar, hardly worth such a high pick in the draft.  And I&#8217;ve never heard that Jeff Clement was the next Ryan Howard or Prince Fielder.   </p>
<p>It will be recalled, btw, that Texeira was projected to go first, but fell to Texas based on signability, but he was a third baseman, not a first baseman before he was blocked by Hank Blalock.</p>
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		<title>By: JMHawkins</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263892</link>
		<dc:creator>JMHawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263892</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;and have caught a few bad breaks so far (injuries to Bedard and Putz, playing the O’s when they’re hot, etc&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Baltimore is not hot.  They&#039;re just beating the Ms like a drum.  The O&#039;s are 7-8 against the rest of the league.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;If Miguel Cairo is supposed to be mentoring Jose Lopez, give him a coaching job.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I thought Cairo was on the team so they could pinch run Willie and still have someone on the bench who &lt;strike&gt;was willing to&lt;/strike&gt; could play any position.  But I&#039;m not sure which reason would be a bigger waste of a roster spot.  

I have a lot of respect for Bill Bavasi as a man, and from everything I hear, I&#039;d respect him as a boss, but his roster moves are, on balance, not good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>and have caught a few bad breaks so far (injuries to Bedard and Putz, playing the O’s when they’re hot, etc</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Baltimore is not hot.  They&#8217;re just beating the Ms like a drum.  The O&#8217;s are 7-8 against the rest of the league.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>If Miguel Cairo is supposed to be mentoring Jose Lopez, give him a coaching job.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>I thought Cairo was on the team so they could pinch run Willie and still have someone on the bench who <strike>was willing to</strike> could play any position.  But I&#8217;m not sure which reason would be a bigger waste of a roster spot.  </p>
<p>I have a lot of respect for Bill Bavasi as a man, and from everything I hear, I&#8217;d respect him as a boss, but his roster moves are, on balance, not good.</p>
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		<title>By: jspektor</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263873</link>
		<dc:creator>jspektor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263873</guid>
		<description>82 - Joser, I completely agree with you ... although it would be nice to have an awesome lefty power hitter. I agree Texiera is not the call ... although Howard ... there is no way he will become a Mariner ... right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>82 &#8211; Joser, I completely agree with you &#8230; although it would be nice to have an awesome lefty power hitter. I agree Texiera is not the call &#8230; although Howard &#8230; there is no way he will become a Mariner &#8230; right?</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263869</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263869</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get the Texiera lust.

Anyway, there&#039;s always an aging/slowing/hurting somebody  who can be slotted into 1B/DH.  Paying big bucks for those positions is just a waste of money unless you&#039;re already loaded at every other spot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get the Texiera lust.</p>
<p>Anyway, there&#8217;s always an aging/slowing/hurting somebody  who can be slotted into 1B/DH.  Paying big bucks for those positions is just a waste of money unless you&#8217;re already loaded at every other spot.</p>
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		<title>By: Transient Gadfly</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263865</link>
		<dc:creator>Transient Gadfly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263865</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So that makes Clement, what — trade bait?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think we&#039;re about to see Clement at DH in the majors, actually. There&#039;s just no way they&#039;re going to let Vidro&#039;s option vest, or let him continue to &quot;hit.&quot; The Johjima extension seems like a pretty strong indicator of the M&#039;s thinking on the matter. 

Unless Joh falls off the proverbial cliff (which let&#039;s acknowledge has a non-zero probability of happening, he&#039;s getting old for a catcher), he&#039;s an above-average hitter at the position for a below market price. If it&#039;s two years and a club option, I&#039;d do that in a second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So that makes Clement, what — trade bait?</p></blockquote>
<p>I think we&#8217;re about to see Clement at DH in the majors, actually. There&#8217;s just no way they&#8217;re going to let Vidro&#8217;s option vest, or let him continue to &#8220;hit.&#8221; The Johjima extension seems like a pretty strong indicator of the M&#8217;s thinking on the matter. </p>
<p>Unless Joh falls off the proverbial cliff (which let&#8217;s acknowledge has a non-zero probability of happening, he&#8217;s getting old for a catcher), he&#8217;s an above-average hitter at the position for a below market price. If it&#8217;s two years and a club option, I&#8217;d do that in a second.</p>
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		<title>By: PositivePaul</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263859</link>
		<dc:creator>PositivePaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263859</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Okay, let me throw the same reason out we always cite in this discussion: the draft is coming up. Lose Bavasi, the draft is toast.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, actually, when it comes to the ever-important first round picks, CHowArmLinStrong actually control the pick (see Miller, Andrew).

I don&#039;t want to discredit Fontaine -- he&#039;s an excellent and important part of this organization, but in &lt;a href=&quot;http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1663066&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Churchill&#039;s 2008 Handbook&lt;/a&gt;, there&#039;s an interesting little section on who Churchill sees as the top-10 most important people in the organization (including players, coaches, scouts, front office folks, etc).   I won&#039;t spoil the beans, but I agree 100% with Churchill that Bob Engle has been more important to this organization than Bob Fontaine.  

As guys like Clement and Morrow (and Tillman and Butler, oh, wait, dammit!) matriculate, the debate becomes less one-sided, perhaps -- but most of the players that have currently matriculated from within the system (or are close to doing so) have come from Engle, not Fontaine.  Fontaine has definitely helped the system -- I won&#039;t deny that.  But Engle&#039;s still likely to be around and pulling superstars out of his you-know-what (Felix, Triunfel, etc...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Okay, let me throw the same reason out we always cite in this discussion: the draft is coming up. Lose Bavasi, the draft is toast.</em></p>
<p>Well, actually, when it comes to the ever-important first round picks, CHowArmLinStrong actually control the pick (see Miller, Andrew).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to discredit Fontaine &#8212; he&#8217;s an excellent and important part of this organization, but in <a href="http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1663066" rel="nofollow">Churchill&#8217;s 2008 Handbook</a>, there&#8217;s an interesting little section on who Churchill sees as the top-10 most important people in the organization (including players, coaches, scouts, front office folks, etc).   I won&#8217;t spoil the beans, but I agree 100% with Churchill that Bob Engle has been more important to this organization than Bob Fontaine.  </p>
<p>As guys like Clement and Morrow (and Tillman and Butler, oh, wait, dammit!) matriculate, the debate becomes less one-sided, perhaps &#8212; but most of the players that have currently matriculated from within the system (or are close to doing so) have come from Engle, not Fontaine.  Fontaine has definitely helped the system &#8212; I won&#8217;t deny that.  But Engle&#8217;s still likely to be around and pulling superstars out of his you-know-what (Felix, Triunfel, etc&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: LewLegend</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263846</link>
		<dc:creator>LewLegend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263846</guid>
		<description>Clement will take over at DH next year and spot start at 1B and maybe C.  I&#039;m hoping they clear the Richie contract and Vidro&#039;s doesn&#039;t vest.  I know I&#039;m dreaming here.

I would love to see Texiera or Ryan Howard in Mariner blue even at the 24 mill that Vidro and Richie take up.

I guess if the M&#039;s are out of it near the trade deadline maybe someone will be interested in Ibanez or Washburn.  Our only problem is our solution to our outfield woes is wearing #10 for Baltimore :(.

I&#039;m thinking Wlad will probably play right and maybe, just maybe, they could get a usable part for Ibanez if we&#039;re out of the running by then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clement will take over at DH next year and spot start at 1B and maybe C.  I&#8217;m hoping they clear the Richie contract and Vidro&#8217;s doesn&#8217;t vest.  I know I&#8217;m dreaming here.</p>
<p>I would love to see Texiera or Ryan Howard in Mariner blue even at the 24 mill that Vidro and Richie take up.</p>
<p>I guess if the M&#8217;s are out of it near the trade deadline maybe someone will be interested in Ibanez or Washburn.  Our only problem is our solution to our outfield woes is wearing #10 for Baltimore <img src='http://ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking Wlad will probably play right and maybe, just maybe, they could get a usable part for Ibanez if we&#8217;re out of the running by then.</p>
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		<title>By: jspektor</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/04/25/laugh-cry-your-pick/comment-page-2/#comment-263844</link>
		<dc:creator>jspektor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5089#comment-263844</guid>
		<description>Another ridiculously upsetting comment to read after last nights game. This time Ichiro stepping up to the mic ... he knows something is severely wrong.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Asked afterwards how disappointing it was to lose a game they led by five runs, Ichiro said, &quot;Disappointing isn&#039;t the right word. Painful is the word. We had to win that game. We must win that game. That is how I felt.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I feel you Ichi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another ridiculously upsetting comment to read after last nights game. This time Ichiro stepping up to the mic &#8230; he knows something is severely wrong.</p>
<blockquote><p>Asked afterwards how disappointing it was to lose a game they led by five runs, Ichiro said, &#8220;Disappointing isn&#8217;t the right word. Painful is the word. We had to win that game. We must win that game. That is how I felt.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I feel you Ichi</p>
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