A lot of his worst moves, Soriano/HoRam, Vidro, etc. aren’t caused by a lack of sabremetric savvy, they’re caused by poor talent evaluation.

Look at the Twins or the Braves. They’re very old school, scouting driven, conservative organizations. But they can spot talent.

I see no reason the M’s current management couldn’t get a better “old school” GM.

There are still huge strides that need to be made, the biggest one probably an overdue recognition of the importance and proper evaluation of defensive talent, but the team’s thinking certainly appears to be moving in the right direction.

Exactly – or put another way, the FO needs to do two things:

Be bold, find some luck.

Wilkerson vs. Balentien (and to a lesser extent Vidro vs. Clement) is bold. We can argue whether Wlad is truly ready, but the process behind the move – replacing underperforming veteran with unproven yet talented and inexpensive solution – is sound and should be commended.

Now, he just needs to apply this process further and find some luck.

As long as the process is sound – and as pointed out above, there’s some evidence that Bill’s processes are improving – there is hope for better results. Some of that will have to come in the form of luck.

Also, Bavasi has had ten years to produce results as a GM. Ten. All of them in a division with 4 teams, and a lot of them without a truly dominant team in the division (Texas late 90’s was pretty bad, and the A’s and Angels during his time were good, but not great). Why does he still need on the job training at this point, and why is it not reasonable to assert that while he’s a nice guy, he’s a bad GM, given the long, LONG list of crappy decisions we can point to?

I mean, COME ON, Marge freakin’ Schott has hardware. Jeffrey Loria has hardware. This isn’t the Orioles we’re discussing, with ownership that just gets in the way of everything and is a total disaster. My guess is that IF (yes, big if) you clean house some with new people, you will get some different results- and what’s saved Bavasi’s regime so far is the progression of wins from 2004 to now (remember, this is a results-oriented organization). Take that away and it’s an impetus to think new.

I’m not saying that Lincoln or Armstrong aren’t part of the problem… but it’s a lot easier to demonize dudes who don’t show up at your events with good jokes.

This turned out to be a great year to give up the season tickets… I feel so much better not contributing to the mess.

And that’s really the only thing that we can do as fans. It may not be much in the great scheme of things. The unwashed masses will continue to go to the park because it’s a fun family activity. The M’s will continue to make money, but I can vote with my dollar and I’ve chosen to pass on weekend season tickets for the 2nd year in a row and I’ve chosen to only attend a single game this year after attending none last year. I used to go to 10-12 a year. My dollar will stay in my pocket until the M’s hire some modern, talented baseball people and let them make the personnel decisions.

I don’t care if current ownership makes that decision or if it takes new ownership. I don’t care who owns the team. I care about the product they put on the field. I’ve found it lacking for several years and I’ve decided to put my entertainment dollar toward the Sounders instead. That’s all I can do as a fan.

The upside? By all accounts, Bill’s a smart guy. So…he can probably be educated. All of the things we criticize about him, can be improved. This is part of why I get irritated when people continue to say personally negative things about Bavasi; I don’t think he’s a dumb guy, at all, he just has some antiquated notions about talent evaluation…

Exactly, and maybe the Wilkerson quick-eject is a sign he’s learning. This team has bet big on veterans over the last few years, and been burned far more times than helped. Carl Everett, Scott Spiezio, Rich Aurilia, Dayglo Beard the Gas-Can Man, John Parrish, and now Wilkerson are all seen by the team (as well as us) as disasters.

Sexson, Vidro and Washburn are the other big bets on vets, and while the team probably likes their performance more than we do, there sure are signs Bavasi might not view these acquisitions as complete successes. Vidro has apparently lost his starting job to a rookie, Washburn is at the back end of the rotation making huge dollars, and Sexson is flirting with the Mendoza line for the second straight year.

Batista, despite leading the team in wins last year, is our #5 starter, so clearly the team is not (or at least no longer) going with pure results-based analysis.

There are still huge strides that need to be made, the biggest one probably an overdue recognition of the importance and proper evaluation of defensive talent, but the team’s thinking certainly appears to be moving in the right direction.

As far as blowing the team up, I don’t think that’s a smart idea. Derek’s right about the marketing cost, and I don’t think there’d be much gain. As Dave’s pointed out, trading a guy at the deadline isn’t the trip to the prospect candy store it used to be, and aside from Bedard, Beltre and Ichiro, who among our vets could we trade for a blue-chip prospect anyway? Sexson, Ibanez, Vidro and Johjima aren’t going to net us the next Saltala, Saltilama, Salt, Texeria, Teixera, Adam Jones.

It’s that kind of collective and enduring ineptitude that I fear.

This turned out to be a great year to give up the season tickets… I feel so much better not contributing to the mess.

You just summed up the conclusion behind every bitter post I’ve ever made. Eventually there will be a “1916!” type chant for fans of other teams to chant when we come to town, and sadly, for their fans to drown us out with when they overwhelm us in numbers at Safeco.

This may be a disgusting fanboy comment to make, but the business enterprise behind this team doesn’t deserve Dave Cameron and Derek Zumsteg, nor does it deserve Jeff Sullivan or any of the other excellent M’s bloggers. They keep many devoted fans of the team that organization doesn’t deserve interested in what’s happening, which becomes butts in the seats and dollars and cents in the end. That leads me to my next point of bitterness…

Multiple times I’ve seen reference made to the M’s excellent marketing. I would like to make an exception. They have an excellent marketing mix and overall strategy. They understand how signing Ichiro equals sustainable big bucks in Japan, but aside from that kind of literal common sense, what do we get? Bobbleheads at best. Washed up “veteran grit,” a pony ridin’ hometown hero, and a once-in-a-generation talent in a kid phenom that can’t possibly carry this mess on his back forever, at best.

I understand that you have to balance your organization’s perception of what the public wants with your efforts to build a winner, but we are clearly leaning far too far away from the “winning cures all” universal truth. Evaluate talent with the best methods and minds possible. Build a team that is built to win baseball games, period. You will sell Ichiro jerseys in Oklahoma even after we’ve snatched the Sonics back.

Also, the commercials are weak now, and face it, baseball sells itself. Any random thread on this blog will show you that Ken Griffey, Jr. and Edgar Martinez, two stars the team fell ass backward into, are as responsible for the Mariners’ current “marketing success” as anything any suits have done, save shining beacon of goodness that is Ichiro. I will give them some credit though, the marketing team is squeezing a lot out of a little these days, but I’d still argue it has as much to do with their high level Pac Rim strategy as any skill-based nuance of ground level strategy.

Dave, Derek, Jeff, and others are doing their groundwork for them. Next time you think about spending $75 on a jersey at the team store, kick it down instead to USSM or LL. Much more bang for your buck. Chef recommends.

If it weren’t for them, I think I’d just have picked an NL team and moved on.