Game 39, White Sox at Mariners
DMZ · May 11, 2008 at 12:10 pm · Filed Under Mariners
Floyd v Batista.
If you’re reading this, it means that after last night’s loss I slept in this morning, or went biking, or decided to work on the house plumbing or something, and didn’t make it back in time to update this.
But does it matter? Wheee, pink bats.
Dave adds: The Padres have setup a blog for the front office to communicate with their fans. Even though they’re not very good this year, they’re looking for ways to engage their fan base and create communication. Odds of the Mariners doing this are about as good as Miguel Cairo going yard today.
Comments
249 Responses to “Game 39, White Sox at Mariners”
USSM uses and recommends
Just how much alcohol must I consume to try to understand Cairo hitting in the 2 spot?
Can anyone tell me where I can find the lineups posted?
I hope this game 38 turns out better than yesterday’s game 38.
Every game is gonna be like game 38. Groundhog day
Prediction: The Mariners break out today and score 10 runs, end the losing streak, and Bloomquist hits a home run. They decide it must be the pink bats so they keep using them for the rest of the week.
So I was reading an article full of lines like “…one of the most inept offensive teams to stumble out of the starting gate in years…” “…It’s hard to pick out one or two players to blame for this mess. It has been, in the truest sense of the term, a team effort….”
And I get to this:
McLaren deluding himself? No, it’s Bud Black of the Padres. This is the only team with a worse record than the M’s, they have Arizona — arguably the best team in baseball — in their division, and they’re still smoking the “it’s early, there’s still time to make up ground, we still have a shot” weed. Is it surprising the M’s still haven’t faced reality?
hey, he too is a Professional Hitter (TM)
Ironic moment of the week…
I get to watch today’s game here in Winnipeg on a feed from Rogers Sportsnet Pacific. That’s the good news. The bad news is that while killing time watching the Reds and Mets I have to listen to ads for the game in which the announcer says “The Mariners are back on Sportsnet! Led by Bedard, Hernandez, and Ichiro, the Mariners are contenders for the AL West!”
Mlah. Nothing like the blind optimism of 8 weeks ago to put the current mess into sharp relief.
I know..I hear that everyday on Sportsnet
…and then I cringe
Also, from Jerry Brewer’s column in the times this morning, the following quote from McLaren:
If there’s nothing that he can put his finger on, then… well, I just don’t know what to say other than, “Prosecution rests, your Honor.”
He can start by turning that finger around and pointing to himself.
I do love that McLaren is totally bewildered by the fact that this team isn’t very good, while simultaneously ignoring every piece of analysis that would have told him this was coming. It’s like intentional ignorance.
Gah, I feel for you guys watching on SN-P up in BC…you went from the depressing end of the Canucks straight into the depressing craptasticness that has been Mariners season thus far.
A seamless — though definitely not painless — seasonal transition.
MC Hammer spent $116 Million better then this. Cairo at 1B for a week is bad enough, but why not hit Lopez second and stick Cairo in the 8-9 hole where he should be grateful for getting a chance to even hold a bat.
Yeah…gee, can’t we get Blowers down from the broadcast booth to play first for a week? He’d be a better option than Cairo.
Let’s go, Mariners!!!
That’s the only thing I have to say for the rest of the season.
13 – Actually, I’m just north of North Dakota, so I can usually tune to a different Sportsnet feed to avoid the M’s commercials… like the Ontario feed, for example, where they still think it’s hockey season. Not much of an improvement, really. :S
When there a RHP up against us, wouldn’t it make a whole lot more sense to play Ibanez at first (he’s done it before, can’t be worse than Cairo, and he’s left handed), play Clement behind the plate, and bring up Reed to play LF?
Why do I continue to try and figure out the FO?
a question that came up wednesday? Based on her first question to McLaren (”you got some offense last night; were you happy to see some offense last night?”) I’m thinking it was Zaloumis who asked Bedard the curve ball question (”your curve ball looked good; did you think your curve ball looked good?”)
Wait, how could Batista be “The only MLB pitcher with a win and a save as a starter”?
“A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19″ — the rules
Well, it only took Batista about three minutes today to get into all sorts of trouble.
apparently the Sox are looking for their first sweep of the Ms here in 15 years …
well, Batista is throwing strikes, and getting contact. Unfortunately, the cantact is not at the fielders, just kinda near them.
Good thing we saved RRS!
Why do the Mariners hate their mothers so much?
Yep…it only took the M’s seven minutes to officially put this game completely out of reach.
12 – Dave, I think you may be reading too much into his inaction. In order to ignore something, you first have to believe it has value. Is the fact that I ignore the analysis available to me daily in the horoscope column of my local newspaper at my peril intentional ignorance? I think not, because that data holds no value to me, and I have made an informed, reasoned decision that it holds no value, so my ignorance is not intentional. Sure, I may be wrong, just like McLaren is wrong about stats, but be guilty of willful ignorance one must first be aware that the info is available (I assume he is aware of stats) and acknowledge that the information is valuable. I’m not sure he fits this latter criteria, which is an entirely different crime.
I was — and I’m entirely serious about this — considering going to today’s game because going to last night’s game was so painful. I figured I’d get some cheaper tickets, hang out… Mrs. Zumsteg had to talk me out of it.
J-Mac: M-bat, what are you up to out there?
Batista: I’m not sure coach… I’m as bewildered as you are. I threw first pitch strikes.
J-MAc: Yeah, you did.
Batista: (awkward silence) Yeah, I did.
J-Mac: They must just be hitting good pitches then, just keep doing what you’re doing.
Batista: Alright.
(Note, this conversation will be edited short, because the Mariners will not be able to stay at the plate long enough to fill the awkward silence)
Top of the 1st and our WE is already down to 33%.
29: It’s his “secret strategy” at work.
33% huh? that was the WE at the start of the game. Try 0 percent now. It is official–no more appearances at Safeco without the prerequsite brown paper lunch sack–I won’t even bother cutting out holes for it
IBANEZ IS HORRIBLE IN THE OUTFIELD
Ahh…the Gold Glove greatness that is Raul…
gas promotion of the week–gas prices = Miguel Cairo + WFB’s batting average–hey, it’s cheaper than anybody’s paying right now…
and the fact that I have to listen to Hawk and DJ only exacerbates matters.
“Stretch… stretch…”
The pitching staff should go on strike.
I think that WE is now down to about 3.3%.
Dammit! My feed kicks in just in time to see the winning (i.e. 2d) run cross the plate in the first inning again. It’s times like this that make me wish I hadn’t drunk the M’s kool-aid.
I love Raul– he is a sweet man, a fine role model and The Face of the Franchise, but he needs to follow Edgar’s franchise faceiocity and take himself out of the field.
OMG. Is there ANYONE out there who still thinks Ibanez isn’t a liability in the OF? Other than McLaren or Bavasi?
27-
I don’t think Dave was being harsh at all. If you are a MLB manager, that means you should be one of the top 100 or so most knowledgeable and savvy baseball people in the world. It is absolutely ludicrous that Maclaren is a MLB manager. I don’t think its hyperbole to say that there are scores of high school coaches out there who would be better suited than McLaren.
Stottlemyer is showing concern. How helpful.
msb- you are correct. None of our ire directed towards Ibanez is in any way a reflection of Raul the person, or even Raul the hitter (mostly), only Raul the left fielder.
could that guy in the stands with the glove play LF?
36: I take it that’s “Hawk” as in Hawk Harrelson, correct? If so, I feel for you too, bro.
Addendum to the hypothesized conversation above…
Mclaren forgets to have the conversation with M-bat, due to a combo of his short attention span and the amount of time Miguel was on the mound.
So instead they talk about ponies… but the result is the same.
I could see them doing it, but they’d have someone like Jim Street manning it
So um, what are the odds that Floyd finally gets his no-no? Greater than 50%?
Here comes Gavin Floyd’s no-hitter today.
should we now assume that maybe it wasn’t all Mel behind the stretch of good Yankee pitching?
and how soon does Mac try Lou’s old ‘last day of the season’ trick and just pull the line-ups out of a hat?
oh, wait …
Ichi!…Breakin’ it up in the first inning!
ichiro gets a double plus one. i love him.
Guess not . . .
Go Ichiro! If only we could clone you 8 times . . .
and here comes Cairo’s HR!!!!
That acceleration from 2nd to 3rd was ridiculous.
maybe Mac could just have Ichiro! play a different position each inning, the way Jr would at the end of the year …
The Mariners just need to mix things up. Cairo as lead-off man. That could just be what this team needs.
Yeah, it’s Ken Hawk Harrelson and Darrin Jackson, the Whitesox commentating team, and by far the worst set of homers in baseball. Watching a Sox game is both painful and absurd. Even the increasingly aging Mariners team is lightyears better.
I remember when Lou did that one time back in 1999 to try to break a losing strek…actually, he had Niehaus pull the names out of the hat for him. And our “leadoff” hitter for that game? None other than the immortal Russ Davis!
Needless to say, the losing streak did not end that night!
BTW, can’t believe we actually scored in the first inning…that, in itself, has been awhile.
*Streak that should be…not “strek”, which rhymes with Shrek.
Although Shrek would be an improvement to this lineup.
Didn’t we watch this inning already?
Can you imagine how pi$$ed a pitcher must be when they look at the schedule a week or two out, count up the days, and realize they AREN’T scheduled to pitch against the M’s?
What just happened?
Hell of a defensive play. I guess Steve Phillips thought that would happen every inning.
Quentin’s ball popped straight up in play, he was tagged by Johjima, who then got Cabrera at second on a tag play.
59… I didn’t believe you.
Now I do.
What happened at the end of the last half inning? I only caught Yuni putting on the tag.
Is that the first time in the past… 3 weeks that the Mariners have scored a run in the half-inning follow allowing a run?
Ken Levine – the second greatest Mariner broadcaster of all time – always used to say it was important to not allow runs immediately after scoring them yourself. I think so to. Conversely, it must be good to score runs after allowing them… so that leads to a conclusion, it’s better to allow X runs in one half an inning and then score the same number of runs in your half than it is to have both half innings be scoreless.
How could we test for this? I know that previous attempts to isolate “mental” abilities (ie, clutch hitting/pitching etc) haven’t shown anything, but if we WERE to test it… how?
66: With Brian Hunter batting second and playing left…and Rafael Bournigal at second base.
What a breathtaking lineup that was!
“Did teams that scored and scored the same number of runs as their opponent in the following-half-inning have a higher win percentage in those games than in games where that did not occur?”
Hint: no.
hey 58, you listening to the chisox on a feed of some kind?
as for the m’s tv team, i actually like blowers. he doesn’t overdo it and is kinda funny in a slow way. ellis is like sorta ok and sorta rick riz. dave n. is beyond criticism.
41 – I don’t disagree at all, and didn’t mean to imply that Dave was being harsh, I was just suggesting that a different form of incompetence was also possible other than willful ignorance.
68 – and Once trailing, the Mariners haven’t come back since May 1st… the game they came back and tied 1 -1 against cleveland… then took the lead in the top of the 10th and then lost the game.
They haven’t had the lead in a game since the last game they won on May 5th
In other news… the camera man displayed symptoms of his alcohol addiction on that foul fly ball by clement.
Yet another camera man lost to the bottle.
71 – I go to school in Evanston, so I’m forced to watch games on Comcast Sports Net. I’m watching the Whitesox feed of the game on TV.
Was I just imagining a scoring opportunity that inning? Nah!
The fangraph for that last inning is depressing
Bases-Loaded no outs – we didn’t score the other day either – what’s our Run Expectancy in these situations? Less than 1?
That was spectacular, in a bad way.
74 -
Sometimes when I’m at school and I am bored I listen to whatever games are on… the White Sox have the worst announcer’s in the universe…
I sympathize with you.
Bases loaded, no outs, and we get nothing out of it.
Yep, this must be the Mariners.
Normal expectancy is what, 2.5 runs? We are bad.
That could also be a marketing slogan for this season: “Bases Loaded…So What?!”
#70
How about… do runs scored/inning change after a team allows as many runs (or more) in the next half inning?
Hint: no one knows.
Who needs Rally Fries when you can have thousands of disappointed sighs?
72- Ah, i c.
I think what Dave is saying is that McLaren has his set ideas on how baseball works, and he probably thinks all this sabermetric stuff is crap, and therefore won’t listen to it. You can tell him to his face all of the projections, the expected age related declines, and he’d probably call it BS and talk about how that nebulous “it” factor of “having been through the wars” will allow a team to outperform its talent level.
The late Johnny Oates summed it up best: the team with the most t-a-l-e-n-t will win the division.
Wow Ichiro is getting picked on
That doesn’t make any sense.
Is there a stat where they measure a teams runs vs. run expectancy? so or last inning we would be -2.5 or whatever? I don’t think there is, not sure I would want to see the M’s number anyways.
He deserves it. His lack of hustle and baserunning blunders have really angered a few fans including myself.
Bases loaded no outs for the M’s – no runs
Bases loaded two outs for Brian Anderson – TBD
The constant looming dread of Miguel Batista on the mound – Priceless
Just to put the knife in the back, the Sox will probably score with bases loaded and two outs, when the M’s couldn’t do it with no outs.
Mariners: Bases Loaded, Nobody Out: Zero Runs
White Sox: Bases Empty, Two Outs: ________
My guess is… 2
Correct answer was zero. Brian Anderson isn’t a bad hitter for nothing.
I think John Oates (from Hall & Oates) would make a better manager than John McLaren.
Ichiro’s lack of hustle? Is that a joke?
It must be May
He really didn’t hustle well on that completely clean steal
Boy, look at the lack of hustle Ichiro! had on that stolen base.
ICHIRO
Why is Miguel Cairo still trying to bunt?
91mph… didnt even look like it hurt.
Ichiro should just let Cairo knock him in, right, because of that lack of hustle.
CAIRO!!!!!!!
89 – Sarcasm… right? Right?
We don’t pick on Maychiro!
CAIRO IS ON A BASE
That was Miguel Cairo’s best offensive contribution this season
Hey…Cairo actually reached base!
Maybe he oughta take one for the team a little more often.
I don’t think of Batista as a constant looming dread. He is what he is. A forty-pitch, bat-around inning is a given in any Batista start. Usually he likes to get that one in first.
One shouldn’t dread what is inevitable. It’s not as if Batista could look like Randy Johnson for eight innings of a close game and then issue three walks and a homer. With Batista he’ll have a go at looking useless every inning or so. It’s always a pleasant surprise when he lasts six innings and keeps it close.
Probably referring to the fact he won’t dive for balls or crash into the wall and break bones. Because that’s the sign of a great outfielder.
I finally have heard some backlash for Eric Byrnes antics and it can’t come a moment too soon. But I still have to listen during Giants games about what a great example Rowand is to the rookies because he broke his nose running into a wall.
horseshit
he was a step over the bag when they throw was made. unbelievable
sometime, this team is going to realize that RBIs don’t all come from grounders and sac flys
Uh hangover English has taken over. My apologies.
ack beltre was safe. what is with these minor league fill ins this year at ump?
Ichiro himself has admitted to not going all out defensively – you’ll notice he almost never, ever dives – for fear of injury.
Observationally, I do feel like he doesn’t charge base hits especially hard, and it costs the team a few bases. He also lets a lot of soft liners drop in front of him that most center fielders would bid on and catch.
I suppose an Ichiro apologist could say that his range to left-center and right-center “make up” for that, but there’s no reason he couldn’t do both.
like dat!
DING. Good thing Ibanez can still punish a meatball.
Rauuuuuuuuuul smoked that baby, damn!
OMG…RAUUUUUUL!!!
We have a lead, kids!
Here come the locusts…
Rauuuuuuuuuul!
oh, now that was just a gift to Raul
Blimey. Is this the first time this season that the Mariner’s have come back from a two run deficit to re-take the lead?
And… isn’t it just a bit unsporting to unload on a 3-0 pitch?
raUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUl
WE’RE WINNING WE’RE WINNING WE’RE WINNING WE’RE WINNING WE’RE WINNING WE’RE WINNING WE’RE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was pissed after that “out” call on the DP. I so wanted Raul to park it after that. Thanks, Raul.
You know, for how much we bag on the guy, he can still hit.
121: Not when you’re down.
Praetor, are you twelve or something? I see the moderator que is going to increase today.
If Ichiro dove and torn his shoulder up and was out for the season we would all be real pissed. For the amount of balls he doesn’t get a year I will let it slide. He is fast enough he covers more ground then most CF’s anyways.
gosh, reading back at what I missed on the trip out to the store, Ichiro, what? huh?
The thing is, Raul would make a decent DH. It’s his defense that’s painful to watch.
Yes he can hit…………
He’d make a great DH….
Go Rauuuuuuuuuuuuuul
OMG a lead…
It feels like Clement gets hosed on one call per AB. He has a great eye and the umps see a rookie and call anything close.
hey look, i’ve got to respond to this ichiro criticism. i’ve seen him charge plenty of singles and cut them off. as noted already, his range side to side is great. so what if he doesn’t dive for bloops?
and when he’s hitting .340 for the year in a few weeks or so, you really won’t care.
80 pitches in 3 innings? Of course.
There will always be some fans who think the biggest problems on a bad team are their best players. You can’t reason with those people.
Good point, Ham. Though I’m certainly not comparing the two, I’ll bet Jim Edmonds wouldn’t look nearly as burned out as he does these days if he hadn’t been making all those daring “Sportscenter” plays for years.
And putting himself on DL as much as he did, the dumba$$!
Scott19- Exactly. There is a trade off between a few outs a year or extending your career by 2 years and playing 160 games a year. I will take the latter on a lead off hitter who gets 200+ hits every year.
Fetish (114) – I know the frustration level is still pretty high in general, but Ichiro has won a Gold Glove every year he has played in the U.S. His defensive play should be the least of your worries.
Diving is very rarely a faster way of getting to balls. It is also a good way to become injured. It is “flash” play that makes players look good but doesn’t contribute much to the team’s wins. Ichiro knows this and this is why he doesn’t do it.
c’mon Yuni, por tu madre
Surprised the ump didn’t call a foul on that one.
The bats aren’t just pink, they’re HOT pink!
Yuni Blast! Sorta…
M’s look vaguely like a baseball team today. Weird.
I turn on the game and …….what? What the hell is going on? 5-2? Against Floyd? This team is so screwy, like he way we dominated the Red Sox last year. Who can figure them out? Huh?
ok, Cairo. para todas las madres.
Wow…did these guys borrow a Tardis from Dr. Who and travel back to the early 2000’s? They’ve actually strung hits several hits together in an inning to produce runs!
Ee. What do you know? Cairo looks useless in an RBI situation. I’ve got better hitters on my Ballard U9 machine pitch team.
Miguel doesn’t like your mama.
WTF? It is May, he is 2-2, he is Ichiro!, you have a guy on second, and you have a lead. Why bunt?
[unacceptable]
Didn’t they win* the Mother’s Day game last year? I seem to remember thinking they should use the pink bats all the time.
*Not getting ahead of myself. It’s still only the 4th inning.
Weird is right. Seattle, he Twilight Zone of baseball
yuni loves his mother.
Any concern about Clement and his struggles this year? He is striking out a lot so far (15 in 30 AB). The thought that is sticking in my head is the one Dave mentioned last year, where a scout mentioned that his bat speed seemed slow. I wouldn’t expect a 50% K rate to continue through the year, but he has seemed over-matched so far. Does anyone have an observation about this? Just to make myself clear, I wouldn’t want to get rid of him based on 30 ABs. I’m just concerned that he is hitting 138/286/138.
Pennance to the grammar gods…it must be the excitement of having something to cheer about for a change!
Yes, because bunting was Ichiro’s idea. Much how bunting anytime someone was on base for the first 20 games was Jose Lopez’ idea.
Did you ever consider that he might be bunting for a hit. Something he does from time to time.
Anyone care to give an informed opinion (stress on the informed rather than opinion) as to how “good” Gavin Floyd actually is? He’s flirted with two no-hitters this season, but he has a poor K-rate, and a lousy K-BB rate. The numbers suggest he’s the beneficiary of a good but flukey BABIP rate. How unlike the Mariners to redress that.
just a thought– maybe on mother’s day at the very least, we could do without the language of the last few days– using words like twat and cunt when discussing the players’ perceived lack of manliness?
153, i am puzzled by the clement situation as well. he hit quite well at aaa and the pitching is roughly as speedy there. i’m not so sure this is a bat speed situation as it is a comfort level deal. but yes there are icky shades of jeremy reed here (great hitter at aaa and lousy in the bigs). i am willing to give him some time.
ballentine is working out ok at least.
Not to mention, something he actually can do — unlike most guys in the majors.
That pitch was high on Lopez. Damned fat ass ump
Can we not call people “dumb twat”? Thanks.
What I like about Clement is that he has shown a good eye at the plate and is walking some. It’s definitely too early to worry about being overmatched.
Wlad does worry me as he is a HACKER who has a long way to go in the discipline department.
#136
Considering Rafael Palmeiro’s Gold Glove collection, I don’t think that’s anything worth citing re: his defensive ability.
I think everyone agrees he’s completely capable defender; I’d rather he not pass-up low risk opportunities to take away a few hits. At very least, I’d like him to charge base hits and be more agressive in taking away first-to-third opportunities.
But if we’re going to criticize Sexson and Ibanez for not getting to balls that other players at their position are, you have to criticize Ichiro for the same thing.
Ah…warning track power!
I have no first hand observations to offer of Floyd’s pitching, but his xFIP is 5.46. His xFIP by year: 4.9, 5.8, 5.8, 4.9. I would say, not very good.
bleacher bum,
I think Clement will be okay. He just needs to get acclimated IMO. I actually liked that move, getting him and Wlad up and eating Wilkerson’s contract. Not so sure about keeping Cairo v Norton however.
Yikes, what have I been missing these past few games? That sort of salty talk is not why I visit USS Mariner. I can hear language like that any time I want to go drinking with my sisters.
FWIW – msb, I don’t think you had to be that specific.
FWIW2 – I don’t think that those words, whilst slang terms for female genitals, suggest lack of manliness. My dictionary suggests “Low or unworthy fellow” for the c-word, which sums up half the 2008 Mariners lineup quite well.
OHFORGAWDSAKE DAVE NIEHAUS! Lay off those warning track calls.
I’d have to think there was something that the Phillies weren’t happy about with Floyd. That’s hardly been an overly impressive organization when it comes to pitching depth in recent years.
It’s a good thing we aren’t using Sean Green too much early on this year. He is warming up right now after 2 innings yesterday and most appearances in AL this year.
That’s an arbitrary rule… what differences does it make if you ‘go to your mouth’ on or off the mound?
Is MLB giving anything to help fight breast cancer?
Or are they just making awareness so that they can feel good about themselves?
Speaking of acquisitions… Carlos Quentin was had for pretty cheap. Would anyone be unhappy with Carlos Quentin wearing an M’s uni and playing fight on a daily basis?
Uh, he was obviously bunting for a base hit. That’s what makes it gutless. Ichiro doesn’t see that situation as a chance to drive in a run. He sees it as a chance to pad his batting average. If he bunts for a hit (which he did a bad job of doing this time, but is usually good at) and makes it, he gets a couple extra points on the ol’ AVG. If he doesn’t, make it, it wasn’t an at bat anyways! Hurray!
And yes, Ichiro chose to do it. Like you guys said, he bunts for hits pretty often and he’s good at it. He especially does it if there’s a man on second and fewer than two outs. This was not like when Lopez has bunted. Ichiro chose to do it. That should be obvious to anybody who’s ever seen Ichiro play.
DAMellen… You’re straight wrong.
If you watch Ichiro play even a little, it is clear that he does what he feels is best for the team’s chance to win. He may be eccentric, but hes not egocentric.
Why is getting a hit gutless?
Carlos Quentin is a good example of an astute GM move, so far at least this year. I can’t remember the last time the M’s grabbed up someone cheap who performed above their expected level. I’m sure there are some, but strange, I can’t remember any.
Good job by Kenji hitting Pierzynski and making it look like a mistake. We all want to hit him with a bat, Joh. Good job!
Wasn’t there a runner on third DAMellen? In which case a better bunt probably scores the runner. I don’t agree with your argument.
(the runner was on second)
There was a guy on second, who ended up on 3rd due to the bunt.
Quentin was a great pick-up. First round pick from Stanford. They did give up a pretty good minor leaguer for him, Chris Carter. D-Backs ended up sending him to Oakland in Haren deal. Quentin is solid, but quite a bit like Balentien overall.
That would be a squeeze if runner on third.
Getting a hit that guarantees the runner can’t score from second? Making it somebody else’s (generally, the guy batting after Ichiro who, we can all agree, is NOT as good as Ichiro even when it’s not Cairo) responsibility to be the one to drive in runs? Giving away a chance to score for a chance to add to your average? All those things are gutless. If we have a man in scoring position, our best player should try to drive him in. He shouldn’t pass that chance along to the next guy.
Eccentric would not be the word. If you think that Ichiro is honestly trying to do what’s best for the team then he is stupid and I’ll agree that that is possible. He may not be desperate to drive up his stats. He may just be painfully, retardedly stupid.
And for the record, a squeeze bunt would’ve been fine. I do think the squeeze is a play that isn’t used enough. Of course, I’ve never seen Ichiro try a squeeze. He limits his bunting to times when it is completely useless. And yes, I have seen him bunt with a man on second and one out so he wasn’t even setting up a sac fly (which would be stupid, but at least you could kind of understand how that might happen).
ah i love arthur rhodes.
No “we” don’t. Sexson is a giant lumbering oaf at 1B; a position that does not require great defense and yet Sexson still stinks at it. Raul is one of the worst defensive OF in baseball. You simply cannot compare them with Ichiro.
About the Ichiro bunt… It looked like a sacrifice straight up. He didn’t bail out and take off for 1st after hugging the ball against a line as his usual bunt hits go. He just squared it up and put it into play.
Why are you people taking these arguments seriously? I mean, he seriously and repeatedly calls Ichiro “gutless,” while now allowing that he may also be “stupid.” If that’s what he thinks, who cares about changing his mind?
Yeah, it was a bad bunt and a stupid time to do it. Bad play through and through.
This thread is starting to get mind-numbingly dumb. It’s a shame that the mods have taken off for Mother’s Day. Or maybe I just haven’t had enough to drink to understand what is going on.
In other news, the M’s are winning! That’s cool right?
Dammit, Sims has caught Niehaus’ blindness when it comes to fly balls in the outfield.
Ugh. I don’t think I can take three more days of Miguel Cairo on the roster, let alone starting at first. We miss you, Broussard!
DAMellen, whether bunting for a base hit with a runner on second is a smart play or not (the adjectives “gutless” and “cowardly” are just silly) is entirely dependent on the chances of success. If the chances of success are (improbably) 99%, of course it’s a smart play: two baserunners are better than 1, even if the next hitter isn’t as good. If the chances of a regular hit (which may or may not score the runner) are the same as a bunt hit, then you are correct it’s a bad play.
But I trust Ichiro more than you to size up the situation and gauge those odds. Your premise–that he’s padding his average–implies you think his chances of getting a bunt base hit are better than his chances of getting a regular hit. I don’t know how much higher they have to be for the run expectancy to go up, and I suspect you don’t either.
190 -
Scraps. I gave up a while ago because I really couldn’t understand what exactly he was talking about… I assumed he had made a typo once he started calling getting hits utless.
Lucky Number: In any case, I’d like to see the actual evidence that Ichiro lacks the range of other center fielders. As I mentioned earlier, diving isn’t actually a great technique, and Ichiro has said that he doesn’t do it because it is just as stupid as sliding into first base.
uh oh green is pitching. fingers crossed
[this is not a board]
Um, I have actually been DEFENDING Ichiro’s great defense, not criticizing it. I think you have me mistaken for someone else.
195
You clearly misunderstood my original post. Here’s how he pads his average: there are two possible outcomes:
A) bunt single
B) sac bunt doesn’t hurt his average
His average either goes up or stays the same. Going down is not possible.
Lucky Number: I was trying to assist you.
199 -
If you NEED a reason to like Ichiro:
Look no further
If you refuse to listen to someone else’s opinion about why Ichiro is not gutless and stupid, then fine. I suppose no one will be able to change your mind, but don’t expect your opinion to be valued any higher than theirs.
Also, this is not a board. Welcome to USSM.
My bad. I usually don’t post this much, so I’m probably suffering from some sort of game thread overload. All apologies.
Because the name of the game is to avoid getting out.
It’s a point that traditional baseball fans gail to grasp. The point is not to swing away…the point is TO AVOID AN OUT.
And any way to avoid making an out is smart. No ifs, ands or buts.
My mental image of DAMellen:
-dark green skin
-about seven feet tall
-can’t stand fire
-likes to eat small children
I wonder why that is?
195: Good news, Texas just cut him. Looks like we can pick up another player that doesn’t perform!
196
I never called getting hits gutless and I am yet to use the word “cowardly.” Oh wait, there it was. Anyways, I have no problem with hits (although, he usually doesn’t get hits, but that’s not hte point). When he bunts with a man on second and less than two outs, he guarantees that the Mariners will not score on that play and since Ichiro gets out most of the time when he bunts, he decreases their chances of scoring for the rest of the inning. That is just bad baseball. Of course, this raises the question, why would he do something that makes his team less likely to score? I think there are two possibilities and we’ve already gone over them. My main theory is that he does it to eliminate the risk of having an extra out on his average. Either he makes it to first for a single or he gets out and it’s a sac bunt. It’s like a free chance to pad your average! The other possibility is that Ichiro really doesn’t know how useless bunting with a man on second is.
And don’t tell me that the manager is telling Ichiro to do it. I have as much of a problem with McLaren as anybody, but it is very rare for any Mariner (even McLaren’s bunt monkey, Jose Lopez) to bunt with a man on second. Why would McLaren only tell Ichiro (our best hitter by quite a bit) to bunt with a man on second?
Ichiro’s BA is a good thing compared to say Vidro’s because he gets on base and steals bases. He turns singles into doubles and doubles become triples.
I question that.
Oooooookay, that’s about enough of this.
I’ve had to repost the “no personal attacks on M’s personnel” thing about twenty times more often than I should have to, lately.
If you don’t like a play Ichiro made, that’s one thing; continue to do things like calling him, or anyone really, “stupid” or “gutless” and your posts are likely to be whisked away to a magic land where they can frolic in lush fields with all sorts of other comments I’d expect from the P-I blog.
Cut it out.
DAMellen- Did you just try and convince a bunch of USSM readers that McLaren makes good in game decisions regarding the bunt? This is the last place that argument would work. I 100% believe McLaren had Ichiro bunt.
Good inning from Morrow. That’s always nice to see.
Haha! Did anyone else see Quentin turn around and yelled “FUCK!”? haha
Has this thread ever gone off the rails. Is the game still on?
Nice work by Morrow. Smoked that one right by Thome.
Thanks Jeff. Ignore my last comment.
wow jj is goign to get a save opportunity. let’s hope he can find the strike zone today. that’d be like old school.
The M’s just don’t have enough power. Johjima hits that ball as well as he can and it’s warning track.
If he wasn’t gutless he would have leaned into that pitch!
A Yuniball followed by an Ichiball. Great stuff. I really like Yuni in the 9th spot as the second leadoff guy.
207
Actually, I’m a teacher. I love children. BECAUSE THEY’RE DELICIOUS!!!! You should see the looks on parent’s faces when I’m like, “Whoops! Lost another one.” “When’d you last see him?” “I think snack time.”
206
I get that the point of baseball is avoiding an out. I get it all too well. That’s why I think on base percentage is a much better statistic than batting average. And where was Ichiro in on base percentage the last few years? 19th last year, 46th the year before that, and 70th the year before that. Wow, those are honestly even lower than I thought they would be. I was only gonna do three, but just so you guys can have one point to stand on, he was also 9th the year before. That was a good year for Ichiro.
Anyways, Ichiro hits for spectacular average, but his ability to get on base isn’t exactly elite. It’s very good, but he’s not David Ortiz or Lance Berkman. He’s a great player. He’s an awesome fielder (way better than David Ortiz or Lance Berkman just to name a few) who is good at getting on base, but not amazing. I think you guys give him a lot more credit than he deserves.
Cairoball?
If only Swisher hadn’t knocked that into the stands
I am not excited for the Cairoball.
Oh I guess he didnt knock that in.
BTW – did anyone catch Wasserman falling down after the pitch to Cairo and tumbling over? hilarious
Cairoed! Sort of…
222 – I may be killed for trying this one more time… but
Did you read this?
Cairo went yard. of course it did hit the ground first tho…….
Putz wooooooooo?
yeah baby, just got back from mothers day – looks like the M’s might pull one out here. fingers crossed.
it’ll be nice to get A win
Yeah I read it. I didn’t agree with a lot of what was said in it and I still don’t. Ichiro’s a good player. He’s not the Jesus of Seattle.
I’ll leave you with the latest from Hawk Harrelson…
to AJ Pierszinsky “Cmon 12, we need you on the basepaths, buddy”
It looks like JJ’s velocity is coming back. That’s nice to see.
212
I definitely agree that McLaren makes terrible decisions regarding the bunt (also regarding about ten other things, but that’s for another discussion), but tell me how many times you’ve seen him use someone other than Ichiro to bunt a guy from second to third? I can only remember one. I’ve seen Ichrio bunt guys from second to third about ten times. Why does he only tell Ichiro to do it?
210
You think Ichiro is batting over .500 when he bunts? That’s hard to believe.
He does it with Lopez all the time.
yay we win one. now let’s string on another. this is almost worth a cigar.
A good win.
A horrible game thread.
On to Texas.
Holy Shit..A Mariners win!!!
I’d celebrate but I’m too hungover…
Go M’s!!
Duane Shaffer, Mariners Special Assistant to the Executive VP, Player Personnel, is at Shea Stadium.
Know who else was at Shea stadium?
Jr.
11 game winning streak continues at SAFECO field. Maybe I should buy season tix to M’s to help them.
As north said, good win, strange gamethread.
I’m not happy that the troublemaker of the PI board found his way over here and after playing quiet for awhile finally started showing his true colors.
It’s pretty disappointing coming to the quality USSMariner blog and having to see this guy posting reams of his Anti-Ichiro diatribes while revelling in arguing with other people.
Yes, again as Benny Hill once said, “that’s one in a row!”
Hey Terry, 243;
So who remembers Jr & His Dad going yard back to back in Seattle?
Was it 1990 or 1991?
I have not been advocating this but…. if JR wants to end his career in Seattle… Bring him on & let him hit # 600 here and see where we go from here.
#234
I don’t know what you are referring to but I have to agree about Ichiro not being the Jesus of Seattle. It gets kind of lame how all the USS Mariner faithful get all excited whenever Ichiro says something clever. I don’t deny that Ichiro does say some clever and cool things but I don’t feel like I have just heard from a demigod or something and start worshipping him just because he is clever. Don’t mean this as disrespectful to this web log as much of the content here is pure genius but the whole fawning over Ichiro’s every word business get nauseating. Also don’t mean this as disrespectful to Ichiro because I do like him.
I don’t know what the heck happened in this thread, but it’s clearly not about today’s game anymore.