13 May
Medium sized fish, tiny pond
You may have noticed Jeff Clement sees a lot of pitches. It’s something he’s always done, and on its own it’s not a sign that he’s a good or a bad hitter, but it is good that despite his struggles after being called up he hasn’t become dramatically more or less patient.
The interesting thing is that Clement, seeing over four pitches an at-bat, is by a fair margin the team leader right now among anyone seeing regular playing time. If nothing else, it’s a skill that’s certainly lacking in the rest of the lineup, and welcome.
Listening to the 2nd inning last night I made a comment about being frustrated that the offense made Padilla throw 30 pitches in the 1st inning, but Betancourt goes to bat and is out on only 2. I too welcome Clement patience, both in pitch selection and not getting hacky with frustration over his slow start.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:02 amI like Clement, because he shows such tremendous upside. His plate discipline appears to be improving each game. But one thing I would like to see is when he gets deep into counts, that he should start fouling off pitches that he knows he can’t handle, especially breaking pitches. All of that effort goes for naught when he strikes out. You can clearly see the opposing pitchers setting him up, and then using the big curve or slider to punch him out. Baby steps for sure. But soon it’s going to be time to be the man!
May 13th, 2008 at 9:09 amHopefully someday this won’t be such a problem, but one of the steeper learning curves in becoming baseball savvy is figuring out where to find some of these statistics.
I know where to find total pitches seen by a hitter on Fangraphs, but is there a place where I can find this information listed per/PA without doing the calculation myself?
May 13th, 2008 at 9:10 amI completely expected him to struggle when he first arrived — he’s a notoriously slow starter when switching leagues. The fact that he saw, what, 10 pitches in his first two games total sorta disappointed me. But now he’s starting to settle in, establish his routine, and get a little more comfortable.
When it clicks for him — watch out. He’ll somewhat silence those who are clamoring for Gr****y…
May 13th, 2008 at 9:12 amIs there any real thought to why he isn’t driving the ball? Dave once said that a scout suspected Clement would crush soft tossers but struggle with MLB heat. Has Clement shown anything to show he can drive the ball off hard throwing hurlers?
May 13th, 2008 at 9:16 amI like the fact that clement is working the count deep. It is a very good quality to at least make the opposing pitcher work for his outs.
I just remember that Clement swung at the first pitch each of his first 3 AB’s in the majors this year.
Looks like someone talked to him…
May 13th, 2008 at 9:20 amHear hear. He may not be setting the world on fire, but he does not look lost at the plate.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:35 amMethinks it’s because he’s still trying to figure out pitchers. Slow starts in earlier promotions indicate to me that there’s an adjustment period before he gets it in gear.
At least, that’s my hope…
May 13th, 2008 at 9:38 amAccording to firstinning.com, 35% of Jeff’s BIP have gone to centerfield. This tells me his timing is probably pretty good since it was almost 25% down the freeway in Tacoma. His LD is at 15%, which is a few points lower than his career numbers but not terrible.
All the pieces are there. His strikeout rate is really high and his walk rate is really low. This is a function of adjustment I believe. Within a couple of weeks his slash stats should start to come around.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:51 amWhether or not Clement becomes a big time hitter or not, there is always room for a guy who works a pitcher and finds favorable pitches. If you’ve read moneyball, Scott Hatteberg comes to mind. Hopefully he becomes better than Hatty, but an eye like that is extremely helpful.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:52 amPlus Clement’s been getting screwed on a lot of borderline pitches.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:53 amI can’t speak to that, but this isn’t the first time that someone on USSM has mentioned that. Hopefully he’ll start being treated properly.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:55 amHe’ll come around soon. I hope Pentland doesn’t knock the patience out of him.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:03 amUmps love hosing rookies.
Someday, when everyone is comfortable with the reliability of pitch fx, homeplate umps will go the way of elevator operators and the game will be better off for it.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:04 amPlus Clement’s been getting screwed on a lot of borderline pitches.
Here’s the pitch f/x data on Clement called 3rd strikes. Yeah, there are 3 that are certainly out of the zone, but it doesn’t look like a conspiracy.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:12 amgalaxieboi- I beleive that is pitch F/X from last year, or at least combines last year because it lists 2 HR’s, also the pitch count doesn’t add up to how many AB’s he has had this year.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:20 amYou’re right, I just figured that out. Of course, even if it combines the two my point still stands. It really doesn’t look like he’s getting screwed.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:31 amThe stats match his 2007 line only. So we can say he didn’t get overly hosed last year in September. According to Joe’s Tracer (take it as you will) he seems to get hosed, but it is hard to tell over time if he really is without the F/X sheet to look at.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:37 amAlso appears with that link, no matter what batter you put in, the graphical display at the bottom is the same.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:38 amDoes anyone have a link that will take us to data on 2008 Clement ABs?
May 13th, 2008 at 10:39 amAlso, there isn’t pitch f/x data for every at bat. Clement’s strikeouts do seem to be from this year (16 actual, 16 recorded). The home runs I don’t have an answer for though.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:43 amHis hit data is almost certainly from last year. 3 single, 1 double and 2 home runs. Huh. Oh well.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:48 amThat is weird. His hits match up to last years, but he only had 3 K’s. Which there is obviously more then 3.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:49 amI thought all the stadiums had it installed for 2008?
According to Joe’s Tracer
Which is a joke. I really hate it.
Also appears with that link, no matter what batter you put in, the graphical display at the bottom is the same.
Hit reload. The graphic will change after one or two reloads, I promise. Josh says that the graph takes a little while to reload and sometimes your browser just plugs the last one in instead.
The stats match his 2007 line only
No, the strikeouts match up for this year. I’m not sure what the deal is. I’ll email Josh and ask him.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:51 amWhat is wrong with Joe’s Tracer?
May 13th, 2008 at 10:53 amWhat is wrong with Joe’s Tracer?
It really appears wrong a lot. Balls that look like the were on the black get show 6 inches outside. It might be me, but I don’t trust it.
Oh, I emailed Josh Kalk.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:57 amThank god for Clement….
Mariners in 252 AB versus LHP so far… .310 .366 .472
Mariners in 1020 AB versus RHP so far… .237 .296 .364
While there is roughly a 2/1 ratio of RHP/LHP in all of MLB, there are currently 4 LH Starters and 11 RH Starters among other AL-West teams.
Maybe its time to get some more people that can hit righties…
May 13th, 2008 at 11:00 amRookie hazing aside- It is nice to see a guy on this team whose OBP actually outstrips his BA by a significant margin. Way to watch em way to way to watch em way to watch em way to way to go.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:00 amIf I may, you know what’s really weird about the Joe’s Tracer? It’s that the broadcast team entirely discards any development in baseball analysis — say, in measuring fielding, or hitting, or pitching — and sometimes actively derides them during broadcasts.
But give them a branded gadget that puts up images, well! Embrace that puppy without a second thought. Say “Joe’s Tracer” a hundred times a game. If a pitch flies over the visiting dugout up to the concourse and pegs some poor soul waiting for his beer in the head but the tracer has it high and over the plate, well, “Joe’s Tracer disagrees with the home plate umpire on that call…”
May 13th, 2008 at 11:02 amYeah, Derek probably nails my biggest frustration with ‘Joe’s Tracer’- the constant pimping of it while ignoring other advances in baseball analysis.
Better spoken than I yet again, Derek.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:08 amI love players who take pitches.
You’re right, it may not be good for the hitter in any at bat, but it’s good for the team to chase starters. its one of the few ways that baseball is actually a team game rather than a series of individual discreet events.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:13 amIs Joe’s tracer accurate? I have always wondered that.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:14 amOK, Josh rules he emailed me back already. He says that after the upcoming interleague games he’ll update the data we’ve been looking at. As for now here’s Clement’s player card for ‘08.
Oh, Derek and Dave- Josh sends his his compliments. He says you guys do good work.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:14 amIt has nothing to do with the quality of Joe’s Tracer, and everything to do with the corporate sponsorship attached to the graphic. They can’t exactly say “Once again, our pitch tracer doesn’t seem to be showing what’s going on in the field. This low-quality piece of junk is brought to you by Joe’s!”
May 13th, 2008 at 11:17 amwelcome to sports broadcasting today.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:26 amHmmm. Looks like Clement has been called for a lot of fastball strikes that have been just off the plate, but not so many more than other M’s (or most other MLB players for that matter). Maybe there is a slight bias against rookies but based on the sample size it seems like it would be too early to confirm that to me.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:31 amWhy no love for Balentien? The man has a .543 SLG on a team desperate for power.
An argument can be made that Balentien is currently a better overall player than Clement.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:31 amAlso… in general it looks like there are a lot more fastballs off the plate that are called for strikes. Is this just a numbers thing with my eyes playing tricks on me or are fastballs easier for the pitcher to “frame”? Anyone?
May 13th, 2008 at 11:32 amWhy no love for Balentien?
Because this is a Clement thread.
Looks like Clement has been called for a lot of fastball strikes that have been just off the plate
Roger that. Nothing to warrant conspiracy theories though. Guys get called on that stuff all the time, unless your Ted Williams or something.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:34 am#34.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:38 amHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
Good one!
Made my lunch break!
in general it looks like there are a lot more fastballs off the plate that are called for strikes.
Well, half of the pitches throw to Clement are fastballs. It stands to reason they’d be more called for strikes out of the zone. Look at the plots. That’s a lot of fastballs. Which is interesting based upon Dave’s scouting report of him having some bat speed issues or something to that effect (can’t find report). Perhaps the AL has noticed.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:41 amOk, I stand corrected. The league average is 58.56% fastballs and Jeff is getting 52.6%. He’s pretty much getting the regular diet.
I highly recommend checking out other Mariners and their plots. Especially our firstbaseman and swinging strikes down and away on sliders and curves. Oi.
Speaking of ‘Joe’s Tracer’ can anyone locate any background information on the device? I’m trying to find out if it’s using the pitch f/x equipment or not. If it is, than we need to re-evaluate our evaluation of Mr. Joe’s Ump 2.0.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:50 am[ot]
May 13th, 2008 at 11:55 amHey guys this is josh kalk the PITCHf/x guy galaxieboi mentioned. I just wanted to add a couple of quick things to the discussion. First, left handed batters never seem to get that outside corner (the negative x’s in my plots). John Walsh did a study here and I have confirmed but not published similar results. I just put the MLB defined strike zone there as reference. So don’t be surprised if he continues to not get that call even when he gains some playing time.
Second, it appears to me the big issue Clement has is he isn’t doing enough with balls middle in. Those fastballs middle in to him he has either fouled off or put in play and made outs. I am not sure if that is a bat speed issue but when a pitcher comes in there a good left handed batters seem to destroy that ball. Have fun!
May 13th, 2008 at 12:02 pmG,
Uh, duh.
My point was why no thread for Balentien from USS Mariner since April?
May 13th, 2008 at 12:04 pmIf you think a thread about Balentien is merited, then email the authors with the suggestion.
This is a Clement thread.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:07 pmWe desperately need more hitters who can work a count. Wilkerson had that ability. Unfortunately, he lacked every other ability associated with baseball outside of being sort of Canadian looking.
On a side note, I love Wlad’s quiet and balanced swing. It reminds me of Carlos Lee. No extra moving parts - just girth and a solid diamond through the contact zone.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:14 pmThanks for chiming in again unnecessarily.
OK. Since this is a “Clement Thread”, I take issue with the statement that Clement sees more pitches than anyone else on the team by a “fair margin”. In fact, one of the reasons Jose Lopez is amongst the hardest to strike out in MLB is because he sees so many pitches.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:25 pmI’m sure if Joe’s sponsored RZR or pitch FX the announcers would be fawning over those as well.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:27 pmSo, is there any preliminary idea as to how Clement is doing behind the plate? I am really hoping that his defense at catcher will be enough that he stays at that position. Even if he is kind of brutal behind the plate, if he projects so well offensively, wouldn’t it still be a better VORP for him to be a catcher than to be a DH or 1B?
May 13th, 2008 at 12:34 pmThis is certainly counterintuitive.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:45 pmFor what it’s worth, Jose Lopez is 131st out of 186 qualified major leaguers in Pitches/AB. T
he reason he’s been so hard to strike out this year is he’s been more selective with his swings, and is making contact at a very high rate (on pitches both in and out of the zone) when he does swing.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:51 pm[no]
May 13th, 2008 at 12:58 pmWhoops, sorry Mods. Wrong post! Please delete! Thanks.
May 13th, 2008 at 12:59 pmIrish,
I was careful to say “one” of the reasons, not “the” reason.
Lopez is seeing about 3.68 pitches per plate appearance. That is significantly better than his 2007 average of 3.45.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:01 pmThat’s not even true. Richie strikes out all the time and he see a tick over 4 pitches per plate appearance. Lopez is at 3.36. Not high at all. He’s not seeing a lot of P/PA. Oh, and quit being a dick to the mods.
Even if he is kind of brutal behind the plate, if he projects so well offensively, wouldn’t it still be a better VORP for him to be a catcher than to be a DH or 1B?
Yes, it would. Since VORP doesn’t account for defense than he’d be much more valuable behind the plate offensively. Of course, they don’t play in that kind of vacuum.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:02 pm[this is not a board]
May 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pmAh, I see Irish beat me to it. That’s what I get for going to lunch.
Thanks, Josh! See this is why I mearly comment on other people’s blogs and don’t have my own. =D
May 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pm[ot]
May 13th, 2008 at 1:04 pmYeah, that “chirping needlessly” was out of line.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pmComparison is fine, and I think it’s intelligent to look at the two players that way.
But if you’re only talking about one player, you’re not comparing anyone.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:07 pmTwo guys get the call-up on the same day, see about the same number of ABs and you want to limit comparison?
No one is limiting anything. If you want a post comparing Balentien and Clement than email the authors or start your own blog. If everyone talked about whatever on every thread it’d be like a frigging Gri**ey thread everyday. And no one wants that.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:07 pmG,
My source on Lopez pitches per AB is MLB, and it calculates to 3.68.
JSA is correct. DMZ’s thread on Clement compares Clement to Mariner players who are playing on a regular basis. That would include Balentien and Lopez.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:13 pmUh huh. And he sees a lot more pitches than either of those guys.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pmIt’s comment threads like this that make me reluctant to throw up short, interesting posts like pointing out that Clement’s leading the team in P/PA.
It’s a tidbit. Snack on it and enjoy, or pass. There’s no need to make a 100-word item the object of some vendetta over perceived injustice in player coverage.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pmNot true. Balentien sees 3.77 pitches per AB.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:17 pmDMZ,
I asked a simple question, which could have been politely answered, but wasn’t.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pmMy source on Lopez pitches per AB is MLB, and it calculates to 3.68.
That’s awesome, but by using ABs you’re eliminating walks and other ‘non-at bat’ events.
Jeff Clement is seeing exactly 4 pitches per plate appearance. Jose is seeing 3.36. That’s a significant difference. Now, I think we can put that to bed.
You’re happy with Jose’s improvement, we all are. But don’t get mad because we’re discussing Clement’s plate discipline and not praising Lopez’s.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pmI am not mad, and thanks for the explanation.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:29 pmHere’s the thing — you’re right. From your perspective, I entirely understand what you wanted to point out, and why you did it, and from that side, I see how this all comes off as rude and whatnot.
What I’d ask, though, is that perhaps you consider the other side here, and particularly that whether you’re entirely aware of it or not, or you understand the reasons for it or not, the way in which you’re making your points and carrying forth your arguments are really rubbing me (and, obviously, others) the wrong way.
Just consider it. That’s all I’m asking.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:29 pmClement has been thrown into a tough situation. he has had to learn a new staff, learn AL batters, and dealt with playing DH. I think he is finally settling in. I love the point, Dave, that he is a patient hitter. As a ballclub, we are one of the worst in the game. We need the patience. Clement will come around, I really am not too worried about him. He has done well defensively and worked well with the staff. I’d start Clement at catcher. Don’t know if this has been posted, but pretty interesting:
Opponents hit .272 against Felix Hernandez when caught by Johjima, but only .243 when backup Jaime Burke is behind the plate or .209 when Yorvit Torrealba was catching him. Need more proof?
Jarrod Washburn: .278 with Johjima, .240 with Burke.
Miguel Batista: .283 with Johjima, .240 with Burke.
Brandon Morrow: .270 with Johjima, .161 with Burke.
Even the dreaded Horacio Ramirez was looking good when Johjima wasn’t the catcher. Opponents hit a whopping .350 off of him with Johjima behind the plate, but only .233 when Burke was catching. And we all know how Bedard has faired with Joh this year, not good at all.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:48 pmDMZ,
I considered it many weeks ago, and up until today I haven’t had a problem.
On the other hand, there are times when some of you overreact, not to mention fanning the fire by jumping in. My guess is that relates to a few of you being close friends over the years, and therefore protective.
I guess I just expectrd more than that from USS Mariner.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:51 pmIn my observation with Joe’s Tracer, I feel like they just set the size of the strike zone too small. Whatever is actually locating the pitches might be doing an alright job, but it just seems like way too few pitches are ever in the strike zone according to their box, which may just be drawn too small.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pmAny kind of information like that needs to be accompanied with the ’small sample-size’ disclaimer. Burke has just over one season catching the M’s for a grand total of 43.4 AdjGames.
May 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pmMat- You’re probably right.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:07 pmGalaxieboi - Very true reagrding the sample size. However, it is pretty interesting. I copied it from post. I would like to see Clement given more time at catcher. He has been thrown into a tough situation and I want him to realize the team has faith in him catching. Now Kenji is obviously starting to hit, but put him at DH sometimes then, and let Clement catch.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pmjustinh, I have to agree 100%. The M’s really need to get Clement behind the plate at least 2 times a week. Why on earth would they stunt his defensive growth at C when it is such a hard position to fill with a big bat.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pmPerhaps they will the further they fall out of the race, but I doubt it. Why sign Johjima to a 3 year extension and then sit him?
May 13th, 2008 at 2:25 pmTwice a week. Joh can’t catch every game anyway and slip Joh in at DH once a week against a lefty and there you have it. Did’t Clement hit lefties fairly well at Tacoma?
May 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pmDid’t Clement hit lefties fairly well at Tacoma?
He hit everyone well this year. I can’t remember last year (minorleaguesplits.com revamped their data base so ‘07 stats are down for awhile) though.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:46 pmOh, and I believe Dave has mentioned more than once about how reverse platoon splits are really uncommon. Lefties just don’t usually consistently hit lefties better than righties.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pmYeah, duh. An intelligent use of the resources that you have.
I can’t fathom the M’s addiction to pre-set roles—that sure wasn’t the hallmark of the team when it was winning regularly.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pmI don’t really like Joe’s tracer all that much either, but here’s some other information that may help us understand it a little better. Also I don’t say any of this to devalue the data. Just sort of interesting if nothing else…
According to the MLB Extended Gameday Pitch Logs information on this page the Gameday pitch information (location, break, end speed…) is calculated at the front of the plate.
However, the strike zone is defined as a three dimensional right angle pentagonal. The bottom starts at the hollow of the batter’s knees and the top is at a midpoint between the batter’s belt and shoulders. If any part of a pitched ball intersects any portion of this zone, the ball is in the strike zone.
A ball can register out of the strike zone in the recorded data, but actually cross through the zone later. The side of the rubber the pitcher is throwing from, arm angle, break…all of that stuff will factor into this.
I don’t know that this is the same data that Joe’s tracer is using, but I think this information may help us all in understanding the locations that tool is showing.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pmI wish it was easier to just ban people that are clearly here just to be irritating. When the internet makes that foolproof, the world will be a better place.
After being around here for years, I’ve noticed a pattern that I have tried to keep in mind before I act badly during a baseball argument:
The vast majority of people that are rude and accusatory in any discussion here also happen to be the people that are wrong in that discussion.
curroug… you started by being off-topic and reacted badly to people pointing that out. Then you took issue with a statement that was clearly true, and made your own statement that was false (re:Lopez)
“Why no love for Balentien?”
Off topic.
“Uh, duh.”
Rude.
“Thanks for chiming in again unnecessarily.”
Rude.
“I take issue with the statement that Clement sees more pitches than anyone else on the team by a “fair margin”. In fact, one of the reasons Jose Lopez is amongst the hardest to strike out in MLB is because he sees so many pitches.”
When you are corrected, you dismiss it.
Then you confuse (aggressively) plate appearances with at bats.
When you are corrected, you ignore it.
Then DMZ is overly gracious to you and you reject it. With a weak “I expected more…” tacked on.
It’s not that any of us think the owners or moderators here can do no wrong… it’s that we like the product and dislike seeing people like you jeopardize the product.
You acting out impacts me. So please do it elsewhere.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pmHey cool, that’s really interesting. I bet between what Mat mentioned about the zone being too narrow and it registering at the front of the plate is why it looks off all the time to us.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pmI’m not talking about weeks ago. I’m talking about today, and what happened here. Just — ponder it.
I’m not sure what the first part means, so I’ll skip commenting on that.
On the other — that’s not at all the case. I don’t know why you read that into the situation, but as much as I’ve met and hung out with many of the readers at USSM events, I don’t think I’d go so far as to call them my close friends — and there, obviously, I mean no ill will towards everyone.
So again, here’s my ask: step away from seeing this from your view for a second. Can you see, in any way, that perhaps the way in which your comments have come across has precipitated what you see as “closing of ranks”?
And, while I’m at it, do you see where perhaps a statement like this comes across badly?
What would you have liked to have seen, to return to the issue?
A cogent reflection by one of the authors on why this post on Clement went up while we haven’t talked about Wlad?
Do you think it’s reasonable to expect that an author would offer that kind of response to every similar request to every post?
If so, how?
If not, in what way should we respond to requests like yours that would defuse these situations in a more friendly fashion in the future?
May 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pmTo add just a little bit onto Derek’s post:
I said the same thing I’d say to anyone who posts in a thread about player X, “hey, what about player Y?”
“If you think we should talk about player Y, suggest it to the authors; in the meantime, let’s talk about player X, since that is the topic that the authors chose for this post.”
Honestly? I could’ve just deleted the post as off-topic. That I didn’t do so was me trying to provide a little more productive feedback than that.
Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing a post evaluating Balentien as a major leaguer once he’s got some more playing time in the majors under his belt; but the way to get that done isn’t by attempting to hijack a thread about Jeff Clement.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:22 pmDMZ, Jeff,
I respect that you are both bending over backward to be inclusive and not be discouraging of folks sharing their opinions, but at some point you have to say “enough is enough.” I would have given currcoug the axe long ago as he has a pattern of behavior that has dragged many a discussion down. You undoubtably have better things to do with your time. But I’m not a very nice person so take my advice with a grain of salt.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:26 pmThere’s a sense in which Derek operates on faith in the potential for commenters to improve what they bring to the discussion. It’s curiously similar to his faith in the potential for the Mariners to somehow, someway fix their institutional hangups and actually put a well-constructed competitive team out on the field. So we end up dealing with the Willie Bloomquists of commenting, who add only limited value to the team and can be actively harmful if over-exposed, but still believe in their hearts they should be regulars.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:36 pmDMZ,
Thanks for being so classy, and not just dismissing my thoughts out of hand. I certainly didn’t intend to offend you, and I am sorry if I did. The best way to defuse the situation is for the author to make one attempt to answer the question. That would have been the end of it for me. If you don’t have time to answer such a question, just post that. In this case, someone other than the author jumped in. Responding with “…it is a Clement thread” does not help.
Jeff,
Thanks for continuing to let me discuss this issue. I did not consciously set out to hijack a thread. I should have let Galax’s comment go, and my response was sophomoric (sorry Galax). The irony here is that I strongly advocated Clement’s early call up (when many opposed it), and I continue to advocate patience while Clement gets used to MLB pitching.
Mike,
Wow. Compared to Bloomy. That does hurt. I don’t consider myself anything more than a layman compared to the professionals here. That does not mean, however, that USS Mariner hasn’t been wrong, and won’t be wrong again; despite all their knowledge and experience.
LA,
Galax straightened me out on that issue, and I thanked him for it. How on earth could I jeopardize the product of USS Mariner?
azfred,
I don’t post here all that often, so I don’t see how I could have dragged down “many a discussion”. Pattern of behavior? How do I put it politely? Sometimes the comments to USS Mariner threads read more like love fests, than discussions (it’s just my opinion, not an attempt to insult anybody).
To state the obvious, amateurs like me only make pros like DMZ and Jeff look all that better to you, especially when they are right.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:47 pmSorry, but this is part of what we volunteer mods have been tasked with, “jumping in” when someone tries to take a thread off-topic.
It’s not something that it’s appropriate for you to decide that only the original author of the post should be doing.
As I said, I could’ve simply removed the post entirely for being off-topic; I tried to offer you an alternative way to ask for what you want, which is a discussion of Balentien’s merits as a major leaguer.
But (as I understand it) part of the reason the volunteer mods were brought on in the first place is to reduce the amount of time that Dave and Derek had to spend on moderation in order to free them up to create more content, so we won’t be adopting a policy where your posts get special handling and only authors can call you out for being off topic.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:02 pmFor that matter, by allowing anyone to comment, the authors are inherently unable to prevent people from jumping in. So anyone who expects this to be prevented, or requires a certain form of response from the authors and no one else, will inevitably be disappointed.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:10 pmJeff, Snow,
I was trying to answer DMZ’s question of how to prevent these situations, not making a demand.
Seen from a volunteer moderator’s light, I guess I can understand your frustration Jeff (although, I was talking about Galax jumping in).
Your suggestion was a good one, but both times I have e-mailed the authors, there has been no response. I just wish you had said initially that you thought a Balentien thread was a good idea.
To close, I didn’t know time was such a factor for the authors and moderators. I will keep that in mind, rather than taking terse comments personally.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:14 pmSorry, it’s probably not my business to tell anyone what they can and can’t ask during a thread. In the future I shall leave such things up to our mods.
May 13th, 2008 at 8:45 pm