Game 46, Mariners at Tigers
DMZ · May 20, 2008 at 3:08 pm · Filed Under Mariners
4:05 our time. Silva v Verlander.
CF-L Ichiro
3B-R Beltre
2B-R Lopez
LF-L Ibanez
DH-B Vidro
1B-R Sexson
C-R Johjima
RF-R Balentien
SS-R Betancourt
Lopez-Ibanez-Vidro? Really?
Detroit:
CF-L Granderson
2B-R Polanco
DH-R Sheffield (with a batting average under Vidro’s!)
RF-R Ordonez
1B-R Cabrera
3B-B Guillen
LF-L Joyce
SS-R Renteria
C-R Rodriguez (currently the only listed catcher on the Tigers roster)
Four righties in a row (I had to go back to the roster page do double-check that) — no wonder they’re struggling so much.
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Come on fellas…where’s the “Happy Ta-Tonka Day?”
I hope Balentien hits well enough to keep himself in the lineup until next week’s homestand… I just found (and dusted off) my “Wlad’s World” sign!
Beltre batting 2nd? Does he even know how to bunt? I was hoping Reed in LF, Ibanex at DH…one can only dream.
Reed meet the bench. Bench meet Reed. You’ll be getting to know each other.
I know there’s never a game of switch ‘em where you don’t take the other team’s DH. Sheffield’s Sub-Vidro AVG. would give me 1.5 seconds of pause and then I’d switch ‘em.
Lopez-Ibanez-Vidro-Sexson-Johjima-Balantien-Betancourt? Really?
DH-B? Does the B stand for Bad?
With Turbo in the 5-hole, I’m giving odds as to who makes up the other leg of his first GIDP.
Ichiro: +225
Beltre: +150
Lopez: Even
Ibanez: -175
Yuni: +275
Bad from both sides.
Silva pitched well enough against the Tigers last year…aw what the hell! GO M’S!
Dontcha know Bloomquist has more major league hits.
Thank Zeus, a game.
Plenty of chub in 5-hole for both teams . . . unfortunately, that’s where the similarity ends.
I thought we’ve established the B stands for Buffet.
I never fail to be amazed by McClaren’s line-up cards. One of these days I expect to see Ichiro in clean-up, and Raul leading off.
Mike G. said,
Winner!!! good one.
Remember when lineups made sense? When Ichiro, Lopez, Ibanez, Beltre, Clement, Sexson, Joh, Wlad, Betancourt was an option? Those were the days.
Why no Reed? RHP seems like a good spot to let him get his feet wet. Bringing players up from Tacoma and then leaving them on the bench has to be amongst the stupidest things this club does on a regular basis. I am sure Reed will be able to show what he can do by pinch running and taking over as a defensive replacement.
Ow, I sprained my eyes rolling them.
I wonder if Mac is going high-tech, using some kind of random player name generator program to spit out these lineups.. or, if he goes with a more traditional method like darts at the team photo.
4th outfielder is the right role for Reed, at least so long as the team refuses to get Ibanez out of left. That’s the reality we have to deal with.
That is to say, if Reed gets an outfield start, it isn’t going to be Ibanez who sits.
No.. but Reed could DH.. or, Raul could. I need to see something new. ANYTHING.
I think the hope is that it’s Vidro who sits, Ibanez DH, Reed LF. Well, that’s my hope anyway. Well, it WAS my hope. I remember hope…vaguely.
Also, my Silvia’s making crap coffee today, and that’s not doing a lot to put me in a good mood.
I didn’t save up for a year for this, that’s all I’m saying.
Yes Raul for DH. Reed in LF. Vidro manning the buffet line. I could live with that.
But on the cheering side…
Come on Verlander, stay TERRIBLE! Don’t turn things around now! Dish us up some of that 1.47 Cool WHIP! And, dare I say it, earned runs!
Go M’s!!! And exclamation points!
20 – Geoff reports that he asked McClaren about using Reed in the outfield for a defensive replacement. Reply “We’re happy about our defense in the outfield.”
I’m at conflict with each M’s game I watch (which, sadly, is all of them). My inner child still wants to root for the boys in blue. My outer adult wants them to lose 12 in a row so we can see some real change. And the rest of me just wants a sandwich.
Well, we got a run.
Jiminy Christmas.
Why isn’t Reed playing? I thought having a LH bat against RH pitching is a competitive advantage.
What’s a Silvia?
I’d hate to see Reed just ride the bench. Give the guy a chance.
3 outs, 2 Mariners questioning Umpire calls, 1 Earned Run
Yippee
BELTRE!!!
WOOHOO!!!
JAGERBOMBS…who’s in??
You know in a few weeks they’ll be sending Reed down, right? In the 2 games he’ll get meaningful time, he’ll go 0-fer and they’ll send him down explaining he just needs more time to work on his stuff, and that we need to get Boom boom and Cairo more at bats.
BillyJive- I am sad to say I can’t join tonight. Got a family dinner soon.
Family dinners are a bit more fun after a few Jagerbombs…but I respect your descision…
Cheers everyone!
Go M’s!
i am here for the jbombs
Somebody better put me on suicide watch if that happens.
Andruw Jones would have had to dive for that ball.
Andruw Jones is in no condition to be diving for anything.
I guess we need a button to all chip in and buy the author a Synesso professional espresso machine. Or, perhaps more appropriate given your other hobby, one of these.
Turbo cought have caught it though. easy as dough.
that was poor grammar … could have caught it excuse me.
26- Who’s “we” Mac? Got a turd in your pocket?
Why is Ichiro running us out of runs? Nobody out, top of the first … Pudge is still a pretty good defensive catcher, isn’t he?
Don’t understand that one.
brad wilkerson is hitting lead of for the blue jays… he hit a shot of john lackey to start the game off, why the hell would they have him hitting lead off though hah
Adam Jones just hit a 3-run double against Mussina. Cool.
I may have a family dinner but I am still drinking, after all this is your 2008 Seattle Mariners!
nice play jose
best double play combination of all time: yuni to j. lo
DMZ- until you understand the concept of replacement level, you’re going to keep signing your “Silvia” to bloated multi-year contracts.
Sure it might get you through a few mornings now but in a few years you’re going to regret it.
Single? Are you kidding me? Talk about home town scoring.
So this is interesting.
Off-hand, given the option of replacing Mclaren with Bobby Valentine, straight up, I think I’d take it.
Yankees haven’t even come up to bat yet and their WE is 7%.
Orioles (including Adam Jones) absolutely pasted Mussina with seven runs in the top of the first. Ouch.
10 Things I Hate.
1. I hate Coffee
2. I hate talking about Coffee
3. I hate Smelling Coffee
4. I hate people who’s breath smells like coffee
5. I hate people who say, “yeah but you haven’t tried my coffee.”
6. I hate Starbucks
7. I hate coffee made out of cat poop
8. I hate that my wife spends $12 a day on coffee
9. I hate all the different names for Coffee – it’s still too much to pay, no matter what you call it.
10. Can some please get me a damn cup of coffee?
I hate comments with poor capitalization.
I also hate not having an edit button.
Has Ichiro been walking more lately, or is it just me?
How often have you been walking?
That’s corny, but I got a chuckle.
Has Ichiro been walking more lately, or is it just me?
It’s not just you. He is walking a little more.
Uhm, my link didn’t work before. Sorry.
Thank you, I guess I ought to do more research. (I can hear everybody here yelling at me to do that anyway)
No worries. It’s hard until you find out a couple of spots where all the info is. I use fangraphs, the hardball times, baseball-reference, first inning.com, minor league splits, BPro when I have to…and some others I’m forgetting.
It always looks so bad when you’re playing shallow and get burned like that.
Verlander, retired 11 straight.
Does management really, really not see this happening on a night-in, night-out basis? Will they ever commit to an honest-to-goodness rebuilding effort, or are they simply content to approach competitiveness each year?
“Also, my Silv
ia’smakingcrapcoffeetoday, and that’s not doing a lot to put me in a good mood.”from No, Duh magazine:
“Mariners are lacking punch at DH”
actually, the Times, with a nice smiley Turbo mug, but oddly, no subhead pointing out that they’d returned the lack of production to the DH position
That was a GREAT call by the home plate ump. Got himself in position and made the right call. Wow.
I think the Mariners are protesting. A while back it was either them or the Brewers that were going ot move to the NL. It would up being the Brewers. The Mariners are still refusing to play with a real DH until something is done about it.
Screw you Bennett! Sonics with the 4th pick in the draft.
sigh.
you know how depressed we get when they go from 1 down to 6 down in the space of an inning, knowing there is no way in hell they can make back the runs? imagine what it must be like to have that same thought, running back to the dugout.
hmm, we are having prosecco with dinner….
Friggin’ Sims doesn’t even know the score. Just called it 5-1.
oh wow … was busy watching the nba lottery … and rooting against the sonics. But wow, the Mariners really took it to the Tigers while I was away.
Great, Seattle sports has come down to me rooting against the Sonics in the draft lottery and Your 2008 Seattle Mariners Baseball Club.
I am miserable.
At least Drew Carey is going to let the fans vote on keeping the GM of the new MLS team every 5 years!
hmm, we are having prosecco with dinner….
Yeah, you’re gonna need something stiffer than that.
I finally broke down and bought the MLB Extra Innings package so I could watch every Mariners game from here in Oakland. I’m wondering if I can still get a refund. I love the Mariners, but man, it’s getting hard to watch them get run over again and again.
Joh on the mound with Baek, love to hear that…
people say seattle is depressing because of the weather. Must not have been sports fans, those cliche writers.
well, think I’ll get back to my houseguest.
Well, look at the bright side. No one is going to keep saying that we have five aces anymore. Most weeks we’re lucky if we can find one.
when does seahawk season start again? They always seem to choke the least of any seattle team.
83 – and they still choke with the rest. consistently.
Consistently making the playoffs and losing to better teams isn’t choking. The Seahawks haven’t choked since 1999.
There’s a joke in there somewhere but I’m not motivated to find it.
I wish I had a houseguest right now…
Mike, what about a houseplant? They’re pretty similar.
Ooooooof.
Is there a mercy rule in the MLB?
True. Mr. Ficus has become much more exciting than this game.
Batting practice for the Tigers…
I’m thinking 20+
I can name every playoff game we’ve lost since Holmgren took over, and I would consider it a pretty large choke job. But to each his own.
As this game gets worse, Lackey gets better in Toronto for the Halo’s.
ugh…
Just when you thought things couldn’t get worse…
That’s it..I’m gonna start drinkin…
11-1?
I am SO glad that I’ve been watching a recording of Dancing With The Stasrs from last night.
I wonder if gaterade ships the Northwest a special kind of “your sports star will suck” gaterade. Seahawks playing lackluster, mariners playing just good enough to be a wild card team in the little league world series, sonics with a winning percentage that borders on the Mendoza line, Apolo Anton Ohno with a skating wreck, the Trailblazers with ankle problems and the huskies with… actually, it’s probably best to just ignore the pac-10 unless we want to bring up Ryan Leaf.
And nobody wants that.
Here’s to the new MLS team and setting all sorts of records for hand balls and PKs against!
This is awesome.
By which I mean whatever Dave means when he says “awesome.”
I must say that one where Jackson dropped the pass in the endzone from about the 5 yard line with seconds to play against the Rams in the Wildcard round, I want to say ‘05, was pretty much a choke. The ball was in his hands for Pete’s sake.
Although you could blame the coaches for that one, problems with dropped passes all year, they get Jerry freaking Rice on their team, and the one situation where you absolutely can’t afford a dropped pass you call Jackson’s #?
But alas I digress, go M’. . . . oh yeah I stopped caring 2 home runs ago.
I think that it was the ‘04 season, but I’m not sure either. Anyway I’m not so sure that Jackson “choked” so much as “consistently didn’t play very well.” After all, he consistently dropped passes against everyone. Other than ‘05 he wasn’t that great a receiver.
BillyJive- Once my family dinner gathering is over its on like donkey kong! I am getting sauced, the Mariners kill me.
Vidro is garbage. Unconditionally release him.
98 -
Not to mention the infamous “We’ll take the ball, and we’re going to score.” Al Harris had other plans. I can name more. It helps me cope … I must stop.
OK, how many wins does a “good team playing poorly” get?
Let’s say, the team projected itself at, 89 wins, the same as last year. That’s reasonable. ish. That’s 63 wins over the REST of the season, and would put them at 81-81 over the season. So that’s not too bad.
But… we’re only ‘on pace’ for 65 wins. Our Pythagorean prediction is 69 wins.
Again, how many wins does a “good team playing poorly” get? Clearly, not in the 60-win range. I’d say, anything under 75 wins represents “complete disaster that has no explanation other than everyone was flat out wrong when their jobs were to be right”. 75-81 wins is “an unlucky disappointment”. Anything more than 81 wins will represent “the team pulling together to salvage the season”.
I’ve never really rooted for my team to lose before, but given the proclivities in our management, I am hoping that what we see is what we get. Right now.
Lopez is just fucking with his head now.
You just don’t mean the same thing by “choking” that I do.
104 – Would you call the 2001 Seattle Mariners baseball organization a choke job?
Yes.
Incidentally, the interception against Green Bay was – again – due to the receiver, who ran the wrong route.
For all the screwy things that Hasselbeck has done in games big and small, that one wasn’t on him.
“The amazing thing about baseball is that no matter how many games you win, unless you win a World Series, you’re going to feel disappointment.” – Seattle Mariners Manager Lou Piniella
Ugh, nothing like forgetting the team is on the road, tuning in to pick up a bit of the pre-game, and discovering not only is it on, it’s already out of reach.
No one is going to keep saying that we have five aces anymore.
Who the hell was saying that? Even in the deepest depths of offseason optimism, by the most deeply delusional fans, I didn’t hear that. We heard “1-2 punch” a lot; but even the people who made positive noises judging by contract dollars instead of any other numbers weren’t calling Silva an ace. And after that… what, Batista? Even as the team leader in wins last year he didn’t get called an ace.
Then again, I don’t read the PI blog comments precisely because such clueless mental illness gets promoted as facts, but even there it’s hard to imagine anyone straigh-facedly typing “five aces” without the benefit of psilocybin.
I always love to see Carlos Guillen stick it to the M’s.
McLaren was saying it.
I guess we are on a similar page … but how can you say the ‘Hawks didn’t choke.
It was 04 and it was ’sure hands’ bobby engram who dropped that OT forcing pass
We talked about big #8’s comments in Green Bay … I haven’t even mentioned the disaster that was Super Bowl XL (Josh Brown miss FG, dropped passes, 75 plus yard gains from scrimmage. I can even figure out how those loser Steelers beat us. Big Ben put up the worst numbers for a QB I think in history)
It was 06 when we choked in Chicago having won that game in regulation. Losing it in OT.
Last year we were up 14-0 on the road, and seemed to take the fat one in that game.
Let’s see… pretty much every George Karl team choked. That 96 team went up against MJ’s bulls though …
I would say only non choke jobs 79 supes, 91 husky co champs, ‘95 Mariners, mayyyybe ‘96 Supes.
I have something positive to say about this rout.
Since it’s on the road, at least it saves the pen from pitching the ninth.
114… We have a Bullpen?
Oh, ok. That makes sense. We weren’t talking about delusional, clueless fans. We’re talking about someone whose entire job is to accurately evaluate and employ the talent of his players (and, in the worst case, keep his mouth shut a la the Thumper Imperative).
This M’s game is downright U-G-L-Y.
I don’t even know what to do with myself these days. Don’t get me wrong … when’s Hawks season?
They at least have a good organization … regardless of if one thinks they choke or not.
I say that the ‘Hawks didn’t choke because in general they were playing teams either as good as or better than themselves, and what’s more, when they were in the crunch, they made plays as often as they failed to make them. That’s frustrating but I don’t know that it is choking.
I completely agree about Karl’s Sonics.
You are forgetting the 2000 Husky team, which was the absolute opposite of chokers. Except for the criminals on the team, some of whom were literally chokers. But enough of that.
Okay, my last ‘Hawk comment: I think that I would call them “maddeningly inconsistent” rather than “chokers.”
118 – Yeah you are right that 2000 rose bowl team certainly was a special team … even if some were criminals.
Maybe the Mariners should bring in some criminals and have the City cover it up? I would be for it.
Wow, that was a gritty base hit
You took the words right out of my mouth!
You know your team has issues when Cairo PH’s for Sexson.
Never thought when we signed Richie I would see that happen.
This is like the pine-beetle-infested forests of BC. So much expensive dead wood, so little hope.
Pick your poison time…
If you’re under 40, you’ll probably go with this ironic “Dumb & Dumber” response.
We’re only down by 8 runs!
“So, you’re telling me there’s a chance…”
BUT…if you’re 40 or older, you remember Bill Murray in “Meatballs”.
“IT JUST DOESN’T MATTER!”
…and have the M’s run out, pants the Tigers…and then tear off in the team bus.
It was painfully obvious to a lot of people here the day Richie was signed that this day would come, that he would wind up being a huge albatross by the end of his contract. Right on schedule.
Carlos Guillen’s averages and salary since the M’s traded him to the Tigers for a Jim Pressley Topps rookie and some old Playboys:
2004: .318/.379/.542 $2.5M
2005: .320/.368/.434 $4M
2006: .320/.400/.519 $5M
2007: .296/.357/.502 $5M
2008: .284/.364/.426 $12M (an ill-advised extension, perhaps)
Just a reminder for everybody.
127: Yes, but that one season of Ramon Santiago’s handful of at-bats and oh-so-veteran utilitiness was SOOOOOOO worth it!
Where the hell would we have put him? There’s no room on this team for .400 OBP guys. Or .500 SLG guys. We’re overstocked already. He’s got to bring something else to the table, and frankly Carlos never seemed like a back-slappin’, gut-punchin’ gritty dude’s dude to me.
And yet, I somehow just knew that they’d waste all their runs for the week YET AGAIN in another game like this. >:(
Boy, I sure am glad this Pinch Hitter is Cairo and not Clement.
Though, actually, it’s too bad that Leyland didn’t still have Jose Mesa on the roster…
Then, we actually would still have a chance!
131
or Norton.
Oh yeah, I tried to wipe that roster move from my memory.
What a shocking conclusion. I thought it was Vidro that would GDP.
Odds of winning have quadrupled so far this inning, from 1% to 4%. Gotta love that Tigers bullpen. Or maybe it’s McLaren’s fantastic managing?
Ahhh yes, you can smell the grittiness from here.
Does it hurt worse getting blown out or thinking you’ve got a chance to catch up and still losing?
Or are we numb to any and all pain caused by anything specifically happening in any particular game this season?
CAIRO COMES THROUGH IN THE CLUTCH!!! AGAIN!!!
That’s the question the M’s are trying to answer this year. As anyone familiar with stats knows, however, you can’t base your conclusion on a small sample size, so we need lots of losses of each type to make it an accurate study.
I would accredit that astronomic spike in the W/E in the ninth to be more as a result of the “Clash of the Titans” nature of this matchup than anything else.
In other words, one of them ultimately had to lose it.
Or, a word that rhymes with “grittiness”…
141
Haha, that was good.
Is it time to do that “Cleveland style rebuilding” yet?
I could care less about wins and losses at this point, I just want a breath of fresh air. I want direction.
They myth of George Karl’s teams being chokers is outrageous. It is built on reaction to one game: Game 5 against Denver. Denver was a bad matchup for Seattle; they’d given them fits all year. Losing the two games in Denver was not unexpected; Denver alays has a big home-court advantage. Losing game 5 sucked, but bad games happen. It was one (heartbreaking) bad game at the wrong time.
People talk about the next year against the Lakers as though it were the same, but Seattle was a four seed and the Lakers were a five seed. And nobody mentions that the year before the Denver flameout, the Sonics — under Karl — completely unexpectedly clawed their way to the Western Conference finals. Game 5 against Denver apparently meant that run, the year before, had never happened. And the Sonics going to the finals and taking Chicago, arguably the best team ever that year, to seven games, and playing them much harder than anyone gave them credit for, apparently that didn’t matter either. “Chokers” is a better story.
The Sonics collapse began with firing George Karl, and that’s a fact.
Just the fact that our Number 1 seeded Supes lost to the Number 8 seeded Nuggets isnt some small thing. It was heartbreaking indeed, but it was still a choke. In fact it was so much of a choke that only 2 teams (us and dallas) have ever done it in the History of the NBA.
What makes matters worse is that MJ’s bulls were out of contention those two years. I highly doubt that more than 5 percent of Supes fans agree with your assertion that the 94 Denver series wasn’t a choke.
Miami lost to the Knicks as a no. 1 seed, too.
I don’t think Karl’s teams were chokes. I just think he wore out his welcome (and it took him a lot longer in Seattle than anywhere else he’s coached).
jspektor, I said that Karl’s Sonics teams as a group weren’t chokers, and they are tarred as chokers because of that one game.
I think it’s pretty silly to talk about choking, anyway — it’s mind-reading, story-based analysis — but I’ll give you the Denver series, if you want. They should have won. It wasn’t stunning that they lost — I was nervous going in, and lots of fans were — but it was heartbreaking.