Quote of the day
DMZ · May 21, 2008 at 8:26 am · Filed Under Mariners
“”We’re happy with our defense in the outfield,” he replied.
— McLaren, to Baker
Normally, I’d shrug this off — I mean whatever, he’s not going to slag Ibanez publicly. But there’s every reason to believe this is what he actually thinks. Despite the team’s ineptitude at getting outs, they don’t sub out for Ibanez regularly and last year (as pointed out earlier in comments) they would sub for Jose Guillen and not Raul. There’s no evidence at all that they’re just trying to protect his reputation while making accomodations for his near-total immobility.
No, the M’s really are happy with their outfield defense.
They’re happy with a league-worst defense. I’m not.
But please let’s remember that the context is “amoung people who get paid millions of dollars per year to play baseball for a living.â€
I thought this was assumed. When I say, ‘WFB has ZERO power’, I’m not saying I can hit more longballs than WFB.
Everybody knows left field is one of the easiest positions to play. Defense doesn’t matter there…… 😛
I thought this was assumed. When I say, ‘WFB has ZERO power’, I’m not saying I can hit more longballs than WFB.
I thought it was, too, but that wasn’t the implication of the OP. (30)
The more I listen to Mac, the more I think he’s too Bill Doba like. And WSU Cougars on this blog know who I’m talking about.
McLaren is too soft and too hands off with his team.
As much as I hate to hire a manager after 2 years, especially considering what Bob Melvin has done since getting fired with us, it’s time for this team to make a change. And if we can’t do anything right now, it’ll be time before next season.
I don’t know if a good manager has to be a “kicker and screamer” like Lou because pretty much a manager is usually only as good as his players are, but I do know you can’t be so hands off and soft with your players like McLaren is being here.
I hope the Mariners figure that out sooner rather than later.
Oh wait, they won’t because f—ing Chuck Armstrong is preaching PATIENCE since 7 years of patience and losing hasn’t been enough. Never mind.
Paging Mark Cuban and Steve Balmer, one of you please help our cause!!!!!
fire a manager*
100/104: Yeah, I hear you guys. Their Stalinistic approach to team management gets totally depressing after a while.
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#106: What the hell is the point of watching this team when all they care about is making a profit? Seriously. I may as well just watch the Red Sox if they’re main focus is winning a title.
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No, this management wants to win.
But their desire isn’t necessarily as great as other teams’, with respect to risk-taking. They are risk averse and concensus driven.
And they simply are far behind the curve of other teams in understanding what makes a team win. See their comments on defense.
Being “soft with your players” has nothing to do with McLaren’s problem. He doesn’t need to get tougher; he needs to get smarter. Tough guy stuff is pointless.
And it’s not primarily McLaren’s problem. Yes, he could tell Raul to DH, but when you look at the collection of boobs we have, it’s hard to see how you could manage much better. What are you supposed to do with Cairo, exactly?
I’m glad I root for a team that is happy with this.
“Desire to win” is meaningless too. Everybody desires to win. Good teams don’t “want it more”; they have better players.
“Desire to win” and “want it more” are just talk radio cliches.
Steve has it right on…I don’t think that Mac is a very good manager, but I doubt that the best of the best could win with the players that Bavasi and co. has left him to manage…we’d have a few more wins with a competant manager, but we’d still be in last place…
I agree with 100…
The problem starts at the top. They are the ones that let the GM make these brutal trades and give away prospects and good players for nothing. They are the ones that let the Manager make these horrible lineups and strange substitutions…
As long as the $$$ keeps coming in…
I still haven’t decided whether to make the long journey to Seattle this summer like I have done every summer since ’95, but right now I am leaning towards a no…
I think (and I may be alone in this) that Mac should get a bit more time, he’s had half of a season where he took over in an unusual circumstance, and a quarter of another season. At some point firing managers is a bit counterproductive (BoMel after 2 years, and that’s looking like a brilliant move right now), Grover quits after a couple, Mac comes in, has essentially less than a year with a hellaciously bad bunch of players, and now there’s talk about replacing him. at some point any other manager who is potentially qualified to come to Seattle is going to have serious concerns because the M’s are developing a trend of having zero patience, it’s either win now (with one arm twisted in a half-nelson) or get the axe. Mac may figure it out, and could end up becoming a fairly decent manager. I don’t think that it’s fair to pin everything that is wrong with the M’s on his back.
I have a *MUCH* bigger problem with Bavasi potentially hiring his FOURTH manager in 6 years….
Yeah as much as I question a lot of what McLaren does with this team…firing him will not help this team..changes have to start at the top…
I agree that you can only do what your players are able to a point, but “desire to win” creates effort which I believe we all feel could be a little bit better throughout the whole organization.
The bottom line is always that the boss is suppose to be responsible for everything the company does. So start at the top and let it trickle down. They are all responsible in one way or another.
#114: If McLaren had any guts, he would’ve ripped this team for its incompetent defense and he would’ve taken Ibanez out of the field the day after he spiked the ball in New York. Of course a manger needs to be tough!
At least he needs to be tough enough to tell his team when it screws up and ask for accountability like Jim Leyland does.
As far as I’m concerned, there isn’t any player in this clubhouse who’ll keep the players accountable whenever they screw up like Jay Buhner did (we may have had that last year with Jose Guillen, but now he’s gone of course.) and there isn’t a manager here who’ll also keep his players in line like Lou Piniella.
You can say what you want about how Lou is “old school” and isn’t that good with evaluating statistics and projections or whatever. Fine, I can live with that.
But you know what? The man gets results, and when he doesn’t get results, he doesn’t just sit there like McLaren does.
This is maybe the least passionate team I’ve ever seen since rooting for the Mariners. This team isn’t willing to go the extra mile like the great teams Piniella had, and it makes me frickin’ sick.
Actually, I think knowing who is and who isn’t a good player, sprinkled all throughout the organization, would be a WHOLE LOT better than “desire to win.”
Really? In Tampa Bay????
Sorry. You’re missing the point again and, just like the Mariner management, looking at the wrong thing.
#123: Totally agree with you, each and every moron in this organization needs to be fired tomorrow. I can only imagine what this organization would be like if we had half the brains in our front office that Cleveland or Tampa has.
I wouldn’t replace McLaren now. Since the GM hires the manager, I’d replace Bavasi first, then let the new GM decide who the manager should be.
I just hope that Bavasi is replaced before he can make any more trades.
Jeez, read the latest Baker post on the catching situation. What a cluster. They signed Joh to an extension, blocking their #1 prospect, now they have to use their backup for 2/5 of the rotation because they can’t stand Joh.
#124: Oh ya, I’d like to see anybody win in Tampa Bay under the circumstances Lou was under back then. Hell, Piniella IMPROVED Tampa Bay’s win total while he was there until his last year there in ’04.
I mean, my god, Lou since he’s been manager has taken 4 different franchises to winning records, 3 different franchises to the playoffs, and 1 franchise has won the World Series under Lou Piniella.
Seriously, just be quiet.
Passion is a stupid thing to hope for. You sound like you’re reading from Bavasi’s personal notebook, actually; the belief that we might somehow win if we just tried harder is exactly what’s wrong with this team. Passion, desire, effort, accountability, going the extra mile — these mean nothing.
Ability matters. Only ability.
Uh, who are you again? Gwangung is well-known around here, and he’s also 100% correct.
21 May Quote of the day
By: DMZ and filed under Mariners
â€We’re happy with our defense in the outfield,â€
When I read that in the paper this morning, I couldn’t believe my eyes. But there it was again, in the other paper.
What’s with these guys?
Last year we had Hargrove mistaking Mateo for a groundball pitcher, and (among other things) considering taking the “reserve” label off Bloomquist.
And now this.
All prospective managers, when applying for a job, should be required to take an I.Q. test. Anyone scoring below 70, can’t be a manager.
#122 – Give us a break.
This team sucks because players 3 through 9 in the batting order are bad to mediocre in terms of skill. (Assuming the Ichiro-Beltre 1-2.)
Tom, are you synesthesiac? You seem to have mistaken this place for KJR.
#129: Ability is #1 yes, I totally agree with that. But I’m just telling you, if you want players to get results, they need a push and a shove every now and then.
A manager is only going to be as good as his players, and some teams are either so good or so bad that they can’t really be effected by what kind of manager they have (i.e. Lou Piniella in Tampa).
But the fact is, if you are one of the 20 teams (give or take a couple) that aren’t quite so good or so bad, it’s important to have a manager that has not only common sense and decent statistical know-how, but also to have a manager that’s going to push these players who make millions of dollars every year in guaranteed money when otherwise they are going to have no motivation. And that’s all I’m trying to say here.
Obviously ability should be the primary judge who gets to play and not play, and knowing stats and having common sense is incredilby important. But a manger must also know when to kick his team in the pants.
And when John McLaren says that he’s “satisfied” with a crappy outfield defense, then that tells you everything you need to know about what his standards are and how much courage he has to speak his mind and not speak out against his veteran players.
Sure he had that one rant in New York, but by that time it’s obvious it was far too late to fix anything.
Tone check, guys, or posts start going bye bye.
#135: Sorry. I guess I was just letting off a little steam. This is just tough to watch right now, that’s all.
I hate this team. I don’t see it doing any good to fire the manager, because of the GM. Don’t see him being replaced with someone who has a substantially different philosophy (whatever it is), based on the rest of the FO. Don’t see a reason to bring in better players, because they’ll either ride the pine or get their two weeks to prove themselves or ship out.
Honestly, young guys, old guys, it won’t make any difference this year. We’re just fucked.
If you think these guys have no motivation because they’re making lots of money, you really don’t understand how the vast majority of professional athletes work. I’m sorry to put it that flatly. Athletes at this level are driven to win, with very few exceptions. They don’t need a fire. They need intelligent leadership, whether it’s fiery or not. But mostly, in our case, they simply need more talent than they have, and no matter how much steam you let off, you aren’t going to make them better than they are.
I wouldn’t bother me so much if McLaren was just honest with us and admitted that his defense sucks. He is accountable to the fans for the sorry state of the defense, and they are entitled to demand a solution.
His refusal to be accountable exposes him as an idiot, a liar, or both.
Shame on you, Mariners.
The thing with the defense is that Blowers et al also seem shocked that it’s not very good. I honestly think McLaren thought it would be a strength this year and that the boys are just going through a little rough spot.
Or the organizational PR machine has him muzzled so he can’t slam the team in the media…
and he isn’t the only one– various national writers and baseball men have also expressed their surprise …
OK, I have a question, and I’m not trying to be overly positive or drink the McLaren Kool-Aid or be sarcastic, I’m really and truly just having trouble thinking of the answer to the question:
“Is there any facet of the game that the Mariners are actually good at?”
Right now, I can’t name one… OK, maybe stolen bases, besides that…
I want John McLaren to tell us what the problem is. If it is not defense is it pitching? offense? I can’t remember him calling any facet of the game out with anything besides rah rah crap. This team sucks all all facets at least call something out McLaren or you are just losing with a good team(Not True).
Washburn better pitch a hell of a game with his favorite catcher out there. I’m a big Burke supporter for backup catcher, but the idea of him being the better starting catcher is silly.
But this kind of thing makes me understand where Tom is coming from as far as needing someone who will take charge. Good organizations don’t let the players push them around; they do what they think is best. The Mariners don’t “have” to do what the pitchers tell them.
I posted this in the game thread yesterday but I don’t think anyone was left to read it. I think poor Geoff is starting to lose his mind. And really who can blame him covering this team? Did anyone catch this one?
Where is Granderson today? Resting? Injured?
Interesting phenomenon. Tenth man gets a spot start and gets a big hit. Didn’t think bench players were needed that could do that.
@136 — understood. I think we’re all a little frustrated. I’d move to Tampa Bay, so I could follow a promising young team, if I could stand Florida.