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The Cheater's Guide to Baseball
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You’re Not Even Trying
The Mariners can claim that they haven’t given up on this season all they want, but let’s be honest, when you give Miguel Cairo five consecutive starts at first base, you’re not trying to win anymore.
Offensive Production from 1B, 2008 American League. Mariners: .204/.276/.374, last in league
Offensive Production from DH, 2008 American League. Mariners: .216/.284/.322, last in league
Can we just release Sexson, Cairo, and Vidro already? The season’s over and the organization has to be going another direction unless they’re just attempting to drag out the embarrassment.
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I stopped watching…just came here to keep in touch with the “death march”
Maybe the Angels will come in and sweep us into rebuilding. That’s my hope.
Who is on the market at the 1B/DH position that the Mariners could realistically make a trade for by the deadline?
Might it be time for you guys to write an open letter to the organization? I’d love to see that. With all this accountability nonsense flying around, it would be cool to see you guys take the guys who are truly accountable for this mess to task.
Well if you release Vidro, Sexson, and Cairo…….You’re gonna really limit Mac’s choices of who he’s gonna bat third…..(boo)
Open note to M’s front office.
For the rest of this season, release Sexson, Vidro, Cairo. Raul to DH. Clement to 1B. Reed in LF. Balentien in RF. Pick up some other warm body from the MLB scrap heap for the bench.
Leave McLaren to do whatever he wants to do with those guys this year. Look in another direction in the offseason.
Bavasi has to go NOW. I don’t want him making any decisions other than the releases above.
“2008 - The mojo is spongy and bruised.”
on an unrelated note, [deleted, unrelated]
That would be a good idea of where to start. Maybe a time machine to go back and right the wrongs since 2001.
What’s Bucky Jacobson doing these days?
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I don’t see why getting offensive production out of your 1B and DH is that big of a deal. Maybe the Mariners are on to a new way of playing baseball.
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Those are some ugly numbers. Gag me with a swoon!
IMO, (uneducated) the problems with the M’s lie up top. I actually think the FO wants to win, but they’re going about it the wrong way. They probably realized they weren’t ‘baseball people’ and so went out and hired some: Bavasi son of Buzzy Bavasi and ‘been through the wars’ McLaren. The biggest problem is Bavasi. Clearly his ‘theory’ of building a winning team via Free Agents is not going to, and probably never will work here. The best Free Agents want to go to the Yanks, The Bosox, the Angels, The Dodgers, so for those team Free Agency is a viable(but even then a doubtful, dubious and risky) route. In Seattle it’s just not gonna work. But the FO feels they have to go that way, bring some ’stars’ here to fill seats. See the problem? This year might, I stress might, bring us to the place where we really find out how much the FO wants to win. Or if they’re really just content to keep doing what they’ve been doing as long as they’re making some dough.
Needing 2 runs to tie in the 9th with 2 outs and with a runner on, they let Cairo hit.
That’s with 2 power hitters on the bench, Sexson and Balentien.
Hey, let’s call Washburn a “20 game winner” because that’s what he’s done for Seattle since signing as a FA.
That unforgiveable decision does draw unwelcome attention to the deficiencies of the manager.
About the only hope we have to stop this train wreck is an remote outside chance that a majority of the writers covering the team echo the same sediments of dumping Sexson, Cairo, Vidro….and hope to God – Bavasi in roughly the same time frame and keep on it. But – sports writers in this town really keep themselves detached and measured so doubtful this will be a topic for more than an article or two. Otherwise I don’t see this Japanese based organization changing. It’s a remote chance anyway given how the typical autocratic Japan model works. They really don’t know how to adapt very quickly. Eventually they achieve their goal but sadly in out case that isn’t necessarily a winning team.
One of the cable channels has been showing a very interesting show on Bobby Valentine managing in Japan and the difficulties he has had in trying to get them turn their business and baseball model around. It tells volumes about how this team is run and the culture at work.
From the scrap heap?
The current options are: The always available Kenny Lofton, Barry Bonds, and Rickey Henderson (he’s still playing right?)
The rumors are: Griffey, Hatteberg
The painful slap in the forehead is: Greg Norton, who really is better than Cairo no matter how you slice it
But what can the M’s afford? The farm system is looking thin after giving it up to the Orioles. It is quite unfortunate that the M’s farm system is thin on 1B prospects. Maybe the Reds would give up Jay Bruce and Joey Votto in exchange for Silva, Batista, and Sexson. Dusty Baker always has hated young players and values the veterans.
I really, really, really still don’t like Clement to 1b. As a catcher, he’s well above average and a very real asset. As a 1b, frankly, I’ll be surprised if he’s league average. Other than that, jephdood in 6 has about the right take on it.
I’m not sure that analogy stretches very far.
1. Most Japanese businesses have not actually run themselves into the ground in the last decade, even as the Japanese economy has faltered. Sony, Toyota and Nintendo do not seem notably less nimble than say Motorola, GM or Microsoft.
2. Most of the Mariner’s board is comprised of very American looking businessmen.
Bavasi + Draft - can’t wait until he starts drafting 35 year old beer league players because they have shown lots of scrap and hustle on Saturday afternoons
I think the Mariners are already in rebuilding mode for next season. They’re trying to make sure we get the first draft pick.
At the bottom of the b-r pages is a link to report any abuse. I felt compelled to report Dave as those numbers are downright offensive.
I get starting Cairo two days in a row to let Sexson clear his head. Or starting him if he went 4-5. But as horrible as Sexson has been, there’s no way to spin it in which Cairo isn’t worse. Cairo finally got over the Mendoza line; he’s a .200 hitter who doesn’t walk and has no power AND NEVER HAS. It’s painful to watch Sexson, but at least he’ll walk and has a chance to rip an extra base hit. The defensive improvement can’t be worth that much.
If we really think Cairo gives us a better chance to win, we should A) fire McLaren and B) release Sexson. I know there’s sentiment that LaHair isn’t a prospect, but I’d take my chances that he could put up a 650 OPS right now.
The Ms should be applauded for their lack of effort.
Trying is just the first step toward failure and failure sucks, we all know that.
The Mojo’s Rising, baby.
Dave or DMZ: Could Ibanez return to play a passable 1b? I suppose this isn’t necessary because you do have to play a DH anyway.
Is Michael Saunders a better hitter than Cairo right now?
On the Hatteberg rumor, why in the hell would we acquire that guy? Sure, he’d probably be an upgrade over what we have, but is he long-term *anything*? If we’re not getting prospects, we are wasting our time.
Don’t look now but Norton had a Web Gem tonight in LF. >:(
I’m sorry, man, but you have no clue about the influence of “Japanese business culture” on the day-to-day operations or baseball decisions of the Seattle Mariners. This team is run like almost every other high-level pro sports franchise in North America: the primary goal is to increase the value of the team for its shareholders. That’s what Ted Rogers in Toronto is looking for. It’s what Larry Dolan in Cleveland wants. As do the ownership group of the Mariners.
No doubt, there have been curious choices made. If the Johjima signing was directed by a Japanese partner, it pales in comparison to the meddling of George Steinbrenner or even Jeff Loria in Montreal and Florida. I tend to think it’s just another in a long string of boneheaded player personnel decisions by Bill Bavasi.
But this notion that the team is badly constructed or performing poorly because of some Japanese cultural “influence” is ignorant.
As long as this post has gone in the direction of Japanese business influence, we could all use a little Kaizen in the Mariners front office.
Actually, I toured Safeco the other day when I was in Seattle for a wedding and walked by the Front Office (which is housed in Safeco). I joked with the tour guide that I’d like to slip a “Fire Bavasi and MacLaren” note under the glass door, and he laughed (before promptly telling me I probably shouldn’t).
I don’t know how the issue of Japanese cultural influence came into this conversation. I contend that a person of any decent baseball background and an understanding of player evaluation could put together a better roster than the M’s FO…Japanese, Kenyan, German, or American should make no difference.
As for Dave’s original idea I have no problem with releasing all 3 of those folks but would me much happier with a full blown house cleaning. They won’t release Sexson because that would mean they’d have to redo some of their advertising spots.
Come to think of it, would it not be better to trade any/all of these 3? Any return is better than nothing, yes? Doesn’t someone out there have some bent up old grounds crew rakes…
why in the hell would we acquire (Hatteberg)? Sure, he’d probably be an upgrade over what we have, but is he long-term *anything*?
Baseball rules dictate you play nine men in the field and bat nine players in the lineup. Someone has to play first base.
I’m somewhat tongue in cheek, but do you really want to run Bloomquist out there every day (I bet there are some people who would but not on USSM)? Neither Clement nor Ibanez has the experience/skills to play 1B today. Hatteberg makes this team better and is probably the best option at 1B from now until September. Quite frankly if I’m going to show up and watch the team or turn on the radio/TV, I’d like to see them try to win, as long as that doesn’t come at the expense of the 2009 or 2010 season.
21- Well, I’d say try Clement at catcher for an extended period.. but you’re not going to get Kenji out of that spot with the new contract, barring some kind of trade. Maybe someone will need his services at the deadline for a playoff push or something. But if he’s here, he’s here. And he’ll be catching most of the time. He could DH, but I want to get Raul out of the field.
I think it says a lot when I watch (read) USSM more than I care to watch the Mariners.
I’ll go a step further. I’d rather read what Dave has to say about the state of the team than go to a game.
Why don’t they try again as Los Marineros, they sure played better than the Mariners.
The marketing aspects are huge. They could become the Latina team for the whole world.
And that doesn’t stop with Bavasi. Remember what was said about DIPS? NOBODY in the Ms organization believed it. NOBODY.
And that’s just one 21st Century concept. I suspect there are whole rafts of modern baseball thought that the Mariners refuse to believe in.
The entire organization needs a pressure washing, from president to CEO to scouts.
I agree they should be released to end the misery. Still, the M’s need to be smart about who they use to replace them. Makes sense to me to let Clement and Ibanez share time at 1B and DH, with Clement also getting starts at C against righties, and Ibanez also getting starts at DH now and again. It would be valuable for Clement to know how to play 1B - same with Ibanez, for that matter. Generally, learning on the job at the MLB level isn’t wise, but in this case… who cares? I guess I’d be curious if folks really think that’s an unreasonable proposition. Seems like Salty starting playing 1B without a whole lot of prep or experience there. Balentien, Reed, Ibanez and Ichiro rotate through the OF.
Extremely successful very American looking businessmen.
Hm. Occurs to me that this may be why the Mariners are run the way they are.
Lots of successful businessmen. Who made it themselves. Who have large egos.
To navigate said large egos, a committee-driven, consensus based method of making decisions and management is developed. A corporate hack is appointed to make this cumbersome procedure work. Even though this method is the polar opposite of how most of the ownership made their money.
No.
The team’s run by Lincoln. The rest of the owners have almost no say in how the team’s run.
I am puzzled by Sexson’s extended benching, given the rope that Vidro and other vets have always gotten.Is there something that we don’t know about?
A few things that might have fueled the decision (?):
- Mac saw that Vidro started hitting after he was out hurt for a few days, so he decided to try it with Richie
-Sexson had a minor injury that triggered it
-Cairo’s gritty play reminds Mac of himself in his playing days
Pick your favorite combo of these. With the dearth of common sense Mac and the FO have shown so far this season, I am tempted to add horoscopes to the list.
Try desperation. Sexson seems plainly superior to Cairo, but on the other hand, Sexson hasn’t been much good, so…desperation.
The minority owners of the M’s get really good tickets to the games. That’s it.
AFA…waiting for the media to ignite a firestorm under the casual fan. That’s not going to happen as witnessed by the piece in the paper this weekend. It was a piece on how the ‘05 Astros came back from almost the same place the M’s are. (let’s forget that the Astros had a couple of injured all stars, that came back in June and Petit, Clemens and Oswald as their top 3 starters…)
At least the Stone injected that he thought the M’s were no comparison to the ‘05 Astros. Either his editor told him to write a story “not giving up” or Stone was realy reaching for material. If it’s the former expect more puff pieces until the All Star break.
But still: Richie’s OPS+ = 92, Mariners overall OPS+ = 88
Richie’s performance this year is *still* slightly better than average relative to this team. Cairo - even over the last five days or whatever small sample size we are looking at - is not bringing that OPS+ up any higher.
Is there any indication that Clement’s been getting some work at 1B in Tacoma (meaning outside of the live games)?
They’ve been playing like Latinas lately. Or like Anglas.
Good. Hate to think those smart folks went into this deliberately.
That they’re putting up with this nonsense, however…
As much fun as the Bavasi-bashing might be, it does get a bit tedious. Does anyone else want to move the argument forward?
For the sake of that argument, let’s just pretend we snap our fingers and there’s an opening for a new GM. Exactly how do we go about filling it? What kind of background do we want? Where’s the pool of available candidates? As far as I know, there’s no grad school for baseball GMs…I can’t even imagine how an executive search firm would go about filtering candidates.
So…assuming Billy Beane is too smart to even consider this mess…what do we do?
From what Kelley was saying in the Times this morning, it sounds like Sexson’s benching could just be a case of not wanting fans at home to boo him every time he strikes out. Although the same article states that Cairo is becoming a clubhouse leader, so there’s little chance of the team releasing him now.
Kelley’s baseball writing should be immediately tossed into the nearest recycling receptacle, or used to line nearby bird cages, etc.
Given where they are in the standings and the role that Cairo would play, I’m not convinced there’s much of a reason to release him anymore.
They should have released him instead of Norton earlier in the season but seeing where they are now, bringing in someone else to play the same part time utility role just seems like throwing good money after bad.
Sorry — fish-wrapping is also acceptable.
House-training puppies.
He’s still way better than Finnigan.
“way” better? Geoff Baker is way better. Kelley is…[bleep] Dave Samson.
If history is any indication, we’re stuck with these guys for another six weeks or more. Notable mid-season release or trade dates:
Julio Mateo, July 31, 2007 (traded)
Jamie Moyer, August 19, 2006 (traded)
Carl Everett: July 26, 2006 (released)
Eddie Guardado: July 6, 2006 (traded)
Bret Boone: July 11, 2005 (traded)
Randy Winn, July 30, 2005 (traded)
Aaron Sele, July 31, 2005 (released)
Scott Spiezio, August 19, 2005 (released)
Freddy Garcia and Ben Davis, June 27, 2004 (traded)
Rich Aurelia, July 19, 2004 (traded)
John Olerud, July 27, 2004 (released)
We get a Beane disciple….maybe even someone with ZERO GM experience (just like Theo Epstein was a few yrs ago). Someone who can look at some stat metrics and find guys under a rock that no one else is looking at. What is Beane’s former right-hand man Paul DePodesta doing these days? What about former Twins Terry Ryan?
Well after watching these three this season, I seriously doubt anyone would miss Cairo, Sexson or Vidro if they vanished tomorrow.
But on the way home from the game yesterday - with JJ flaming out - we listened to the various rants from fans on the post-game radio show. And it occurred to us that the ONE THING that has changed radically this season from last is the almost complete makeup of a new coaches roster. We have to wonder, given that many of the core players that were on the 2007 team also, how much things have changed for the worse with the new coaching staff? Perhaps this is an area that needs to be looked at more closely………….
For the sake of that argument, let’s just pretend we snap our fingers and there’s an opening for a new GM. Exactly how do we go about filling it? What kind of background do we want? Where’s the pool of available candidates? As far as I know, there’s no grad school for baseball GMs…I can’t even imagine how an executive search firm would go about filtering candidates.
So…assuming Billy Beane is too smart to even consider this mess…what do we do?
We’ve been having this discussion for years now. (Antonetti isn’t the only possible candidate, but that’s the most obvious of several threads on the subject of replacing Bavasi). There are other candidates, and they tend to be assistant GMs at other clubs. There may not be a grad school for GMs, but the ivy league schools seem to be doing the job. That or family connections to get the foot in the door, followed by job experience in other front offices, seem to be the standard modern career arc. Bavasi is an example of family connections; Epstein {Yale), Shapiro (Princeton), DePodesta (Harvard), etc are the ivy league contingent. I’ll leave it you to judge which path is the more reliable.
Beane actually came up as a ballplayer, but he’s an exception in a lot of ways. He also has an ownership stake in the A’s. He’s not going anywhere.
And it occurred to us that the ONE THING that has changed radically this season from last is the almost complete makeup of a new coaches roster. We have to wonder, given that many of the core players that were on the 2007 team also, how much things have changed for the worse with the new coaching staff?
The effect of coaches isn’t going to be enough in itself to explain the situation, though given McLaren’s, uh, talents in every other respect I’m sure there is an opportunity for improvement there. But the reality is that the 2007 team overachieved, and its record last year was a bit of a mirage. A lot of people who actually analyzed the team (as opposed to the squint-and-guess-and-listen-to-what-everybody-else-is-saying that the conventional media used in the pre-season) projected them to be no better than .500 even with the addition of Bedard. Given the early injuries, the slow start for Ichiro and Johjima, the hole in RF, the ineptness of McLaren, and the (surprising) early strength of opponents like Baltimore, Oakland, and Texas, their current record isn’t surprising (and a .500 finish is still distantly possible, although unlikey; though they probably will end at better than the .368 they’re currently at).
Just because the AL has the DH doesn’t mean the M’s have to use it. Let the pitchers bat!!!! Can’t be any worse, except for the decisions then required of MacLaren during games. But, maybe that will also work in our favor, if he gets to show he can’t manage every day, he might be gone sooner!
In the links Dave references, what is tOPS and sOPS?
I think Clement’s going to be playing 1B here within a week or two. Just a hunch. I actually don’t hate the idea if they give him lots of work at catcher too — catchers don’t play every day.
Getting rid of Bavasi means getting someone even worse than Bavasi to replace him. Face facts.
Seems like a good time for one of my favorite quotes on Cot’s blog:
“If we’re gonna win, the players gotta play better,
the coaches gotta coach better, the manager gotta manage better, and the owners gotta own better.”
- Brewers first baseman George Scott, to the club chairman
Jesus will reappear as a hot dog vendor at Safeco before the M’s hire Paul Podesta or any other even slightly stat-oriented GM. He’s the exact opposite of Bavasi, and the M’s love Bavasi’s style.
While I still think there needs to be a major house cleaning instead of just dusting the knick-knacks while the septic system backs up, I don’t think that’s likely.
They’re more likely to work from the bottom up. Some of the players may be gone within the next few weeks. When that doesn’t produce the kind of tangible results that are desired (probably because none of the new guys will be “clubhouse leaders”) McLaren will be next.
They’ll give him a laurel and a hearty handshake and praise his accomplishments. The new guy will have the same type of roster to work with and we’ll all be here again on the same topic.
The very fact that they might not be able to get a tray of garlic fries in trade for our starting DH or our once or current starting 1B is amazing to me.
I think Clement’s going to be playing 1B here within a week or two. Just a hunch.
If that was the case you’d think they’d be giving him some time at 1B down in Tacoma. AFAIK he has yet to field there in a game at any level. Having him learn to do so in front of tens of thousands of people in a game that matters in the standings wouldn’t the dumbest thing this organization has done, but it still sounds unlikely.
I actually don’t hate the idea if they give him lots of work at catcher too — catchers don’t play every day.
Except that Burke is the designated catcher for two of the starting rotation already. Kind of hard to fight Clement in there. Though of course you could get rid of Vidro and rotate Clement and Joh through the DH spot (McLaren wouldn’t even have to get over his fear of losing the DH if the catcher gets hurt, because he would still have Burke on the bench).
Bucky Jacobson is watching the Mariners:
http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mariners/2008/06/santana_strings_em_up.html