No Antonetti?
So here’s the first word, from the blog of an Indians MLB.com writer:
“I hope I’ve been very clear how happy I am in Cleveland,” Antonetti said. “I’m looking forward to continuing to build a winning team here. Hopefully I’ve been clear with that. That’s not with respect to Seattle. That’s my situation here. I’m very happy.”
In the blog entry, it’s sold as him not being interested, but that quote isn’t quite that strong. Of course, I might just be reading it that way because I want there to be room there.
But the Anthony’s written probably 90% of the articles up on the Indians MLB site right now, so I’m inclined to trust his judgement in interpreting what Antonetti was trying to say. Unless heeeee’s biased because he doesn’t want Antonetti to leave… yeah, yeah, that’s the ticket.
Comments
USSM uses and recommends
DMZ, I agree with you analysis. He has left some wiggle room in there.
It sounds like what every sports executive says whether or not he is moving from one team to another. He said, “I’m happy where I am.” What he didn’t say is, “I’m not interested in Seattle. I have no interest in becoming General Manager of the Mariners, and wish to remain where I am for the foreseeable future.” Unless I’m completely misreading his “That’s not with respect to Seattle” statement.
I’m telling you – “Antonetti for GM” signs at all homegames. Let him know how much he’s wanted here.
What’s the guy supposed to say, honestly? Anything more would be frowned upon by the Indians (especially if he were to not get the job), and could reflect poorly on the M’s if someone were to cry “tampering!” at any point during the process. Seems to be a non-story from where I’m sitting.
FWIW, I suspect he said “That’s no disrespect to Seattle,” not “That’s with respect to Seattle.”
That would make the quote more sensible and, frankly, tantalizing for M’s fans.
Nope. DMZ quoted straight from the other blog, so unless they’re attributing quotes incorrectly, that’s straight from the horse’s mouth.
He goes out of his way to not say anything that would preclude his consideration of an offer from the M’s, while throwing a bone to the Cleveland fans (who, bless them, have to have some sort of complex about the fact that no one with decent options really wants to live in Cleveland. Very diplomatic.
Then again, I’d take a good job with the Indians in a boner of a city over a sisyphusian job with the M’s in one of the most beautiful cities in the world. I think he won’t tip his hand in either direction until he has an offer and a real feel for what kind of leeway and control he’d have as a GM in Seattle. There’s a balance there between placating your employer and the Indians’ fans with reassurances and avoiding a Saban-like doublespeak disaster.
Yeah, that’s my feeling, too.
And he’s in the driver’s seat here…he’s perfectly happy where he is and he’d have to be blown out of the water by an offer AND know that he’s wanted very badly by someone else.
I can see this ownership doing the former; not so sure they’d be the latter….
> “That’s not with respect to Seattle.”
GoSox, I’d guess the intent was more a “that’s not only with regard to the Seattle situation…”
It would make sense to issue the Happiness Statement as a stand-alone as best he could. Why limit your options? You can be happy in more than one place. Opportunities arise for such things. Quality people go from very good jobs to even better jobs all the time.
He turned down the St. Louis job, so I have no problem believing that he’s not interested in Seattle – or any other job, for that matter.
LaCava’s my hope…
I’m with Derek on this one. The quite isn’t an unequivocal as Anthony seems to think it is. I suspect we’re seeing confirmation bias at work.
The other, perhaps most telling comment in my view came at the very end of that blog post:
“He would not say if Seattle has contacted him about the job.”
If Antonetti really wanted to squash any rumors or interest, you’d expect him to be more unequivocal and forthcoming.
There is still hope.
It’s sysiphean, but whatever, smb I agree.
That’s why I think DePodesta or even Forst are more likely, but I am holding out hope for Antonetti.
I think there is wiggle room there in the quote, Derek. He didn’t say he’s so happy that he’d never leave. He was just saying he was happy in Cleveland. I almost think it makes it better that he mentioned Seattle because he’s separating his happiness in Cleveland from anything that may be happening with the Seattle situation and a possible job opening for someone like him. Am I reaching too much?
Just the same, I wouldn’t get my hopes up, too much. I don’t get the feeling that this front office are so committed to a new direction that they’d go full commitment to someone who they think isn’t panting over the job….(More fools they, but….)
Perhaps a dumb question… but is Seattle allowed to contact him (about the position) during the season?
They can certainly contact the Indians and ask permission to interview. I believe that would be the normal courtesy, since he’s under contract.
and, as they aren’t likely to interview until the end of the season, they may not be contacting anyone.
My initial gut feelings are (and I’m purely speculating here) are that The Howie and Chuckie don’t have the guts to go for Antonetti with their thing for proven GM’s. They’ll probably be scared off by DePodesta too by the LA media circus thing that went down.
Kim Ng might be the kind of ‘new plan’ that they could handle. My .02 cents, and my long shot prediction.
Looks like delusional wishful thinking to me.
Yesterday in Hickey’s article in the PI on possible replacements he wrote, “At one point he (Antonetti) was the front-runner for the St. Louis GM job, but the Indians value him enough that he has a contract through 2011. The Indians would have to give the Mariners permission to talk with Antonetti, and it’s also not clear if he’d want to interview — he declined an interview with the Pirates last year.”
I’m not sure why the Indians would allow their future GM to get away from them if they have him signed through 2011. That would seem to be the whole point of the long term contract – to be sure he’s available when Shapiro retires. And for Antonetti the long term contract provides security that he has a GM job guaranteed in a organization that he’s familiar with and has helped to design. I’m sure he is very happy there, just like he says.
And as the mysterious former GM in that same article said, “But I don’t know that it would work now, because I don’t think he can get out of his current contract.”
Looks to me like the Antonetti to Seattle campaign is doomed to failure.
Oolon,
Not necessarily. It’s just that Shapiro is still pretty young. (41?) Antonetti might be talked into leaving if he knew he wasn’t gonna get the GM spot for another 20 years, and if he actually wants a GM spot.
Just the same, I wouldn’t get my hopes up, too much.
Dude, we’re Mariners fans.
You guys don’t know me from Adam so feel free to ignore me but as a politico I think that is clearly an invitation for the M’s to pursue him…and very cleverly done.
Looks to me like the Antonetti to Seattle campaign is doomed to failure.
Not necessarily. If the “campaign” nudges ArmLinc to interview more of the kind of candidates Antonetti represents, and they actually end up hiring one, it would be a 100% success. Antonetti might be the best choice, but he’s not the only one of his breed. If you’re shopping for luxury cars, it matters less whether you get the Lexus or the Benz, as long as you don’t get the rusted-out 1980s Caddy.
Antonetti was carefully neutral, just like he has to be. He wasn’t closing any doors, and I’d be very surprised if he weren’t personally receptive to a Mariner overture.
The fact that Antonetti declined an interview with the Pirates doesn’t mean a whole lot. First, there is a lot of information passed before you get to an interview, and it is quite possible he didn’t see any real possibilities there. Turning down the interview if he already knows he won’t take the job sends a good message to his current employer. Second, it was the Pirates. What’s their operating budget, again? The Mariner job, just viewed from a “what toys will I have to play with” perspective, has to be two or three times as enticing.
The real questions are whether H&C would even pursue him, and if they did, whether or not they could give him a good enough package to induce him to leave.
I did send an email to [removed] that didn’t get bounced back linking to the “Our Pitch to Antonetti” entry. I’d like to think he actually got it.
There are a million different ways to say “This is no time to speculate. I have a job to do. I have a promise to keep. Leave me alone.”
Antonetti has a blood oath with Shaprio that can potentially expire at the conclusion of every season. But during the season? Forget about it. He is fully committed to the Indians for 2008. We should respect him for that and continue to lobby for Antonetti to bring that same level of commitment to Seattle in 2009.
I totally agree with this, but I’m not sure how much HowChuck can be persuaded by the relatively tiny segment of the base that are stats fans…
Ruminating out loud, you need to get a more general fan swell and…hmm…..
I’d rather have DePodesta anyway.
Hmmm…actually, I think that might be helpful. Or not hurful. Stoking a candidate’s ego like that would at least make you look at the situation more carefully…(”If they’re that stoked just by the thought of me POSSIBLY being there, what if I were actually there to do good things…”)…That might outweigh any reluctance…
Based on past experience with this franchise (and having moved a thousand miles away and being unable to participate in the campaign), I’m going to believe this is headed in the totally opposite/wrong direction (Krivsky, Ryan, Steve Phillips…) until there are actual signs from the organization suggesting otherwise.
Which is a completely different way of saying exactly what joser said, I suppose. Those of you who are worrying about whatever differences there may be among DePodesta, Antonetti et al. ought to just be praying they end up with any one of the two dozen or so eligible folks in that mold. And trying not to be too close to any bridges when the announcement comes.
I know you guys are trying to be helpful, but if that IS his email address, we don’t want to help spam-bots fill his inbox with Viagra ads, so I’ve removed the email address.
Total wiggle room. We will not give up hope yet!
28- I would not.
32-why? He got a raw deal in LA, and he is as sabermetric as they come.
So? If we send him snail-mail love letters…
Whether the Mariners have a chance for Antonetti or not, they certainly NEED someone like him … check out this latest statement from M’s interim GM Pelekoudas in explaining why he has not released any players yet and instead why he wants Riggleman to have a chance to work with the existing roster of players:
Chris Antonetti – can you see why we need you so badly?….
But you don’t want a pure “sabermetric” guy either, because you’ll just piss off some of the scouts and they’re an important source of information too. You want somebody who is willing to take information from any source, and test it, and use it if it offers real value or a fresh perspective. You want someone who isn’t trapped by conventional wisdom and “the book” and tradition. It just so happens that most of the fresh perspectives and new information is coming out of what could, loosely, be called “sabermetrics.” But the mindset that can make best use of it, and the input from scouts too, is larger than that. You want someone who is smart and flexible and open-minded.
“It is this that causes the varying success of a man; for the times change, but he does not.” –Machiavelli
I agree you clearly want someone who is smart and integrates sabrmetrics with scouting, but Pelekoudas saying that a “new voice” can influence performance and that if that performance improves that would lead him to different conclusions about these players based on a month’s worth of data coming into the trade deadline is … stupid. There are absolutely no more data needed and no additional scouting insights needed to know all you need to know to make decisions about the players on this roster. If you do not know with clarity the value of each player on this roster, you do not have the ability to be a major league GM.
3-I had a sign with those exact 3 words at the game last night. Don’t think I made it on TV though.
LaCava.
So which of the options is it, posters? “ArmLinc” or “HowChuck”? I’m guessing there’ll be a good number of these threads, so let’s get our ducks in a row as far as naming conventions.
LaCava is my top choice, and has a decent shot at at least getting interviewed for the job.
I prefer HoChuck myself.
joser,
I could not agree more. I think it’s important that the traditional sources of information don’t feel threatened by whomever it chosen. I think Antonetti is the perfect candidate (forgiving my ignorance if the following trait applies just as well to other candidates) because he seems to have that desire to balance his sources of information to get the best perspective on talent. Sabermetrics isn’t a complete replacement for watching and observing. What it is, and I think Antonetti knows this, is an extremely cool new toolset that enhances talent evaluation in almost every way imaginable.
It’s time to bring in someone who isn’t stubbornly clinging to obsolete analytical methods, and instead can separate the useful from the useless and replace or supplement as necessary with the advances now available. The ideal candidate is the one who realizes we have a delicate situation here in regard to “new baseball thinking,” and some nuance and skill is needed to win people over and get the keys to the treasure chest. Seriously, despite everything we all feel is wrong at the top, I have to believe it can be done, that HoChuck and Yamauchi (to whatever degree he chooses to be involved) can be massaged into the 21st century and get us the team we need to win. We could get a sabermetrics guy, and if he alienates scouts and the team doesn’t win quickly enough, we may have a big problem.
ArmLinc is much more clever. If someone can photoshop them arm in arm, I will endorse that immediately, but for now, HoChuck was mine so I’m sticking with it
Does HoArm sound too much like HoRam to work?
Does HoArm sound too much like HoRam to work?
What is there about the similarity that doesn’t “work”?
Well, as the originator (I think) of “ArmLinc” I obviously lean that way, but if we go with the first names I’d shorten it further: HowChu.
I am the Eggplant, I am the Walrus, How- How- HowChu!
Remember the motto.
Seattle Mariners – It can always get worse.
Like that one, too
ArmLinc. Get on it, Photoshoppers.
olerud89 – good for you. Now we just need more and bigger.
I think HoChuck has the best ring. It makes me think “up-chuck” when I say it.
Yep, as I said earlier. Not good news, the FO has contacted Forst as well. THough no word on his interest in the team.
Why would Antonetti be so inclinded to just be “second”? Besides the money.
Those quotes from Antonetti are a little disheartening (although I agree about the wriggle room).
Worst nightmare is if Howard and Chuck get sold on having Lee Pelekoudas as the full time GM. Where’s the accountability?
However he’s trying to sell it now, Pelekoudas also shares the blame for assembling this carwreck of a roster.
Maybe my comment about “worst nightmare” was too much, but I can’t believe that Pelekoudas goes to all that trouble to get McLaren fired, while the two biggest deadweights Sexson and Vidro (and Washburn the cancer) still remain cosy on the team.
I don’t read that quote as “I want to stay here and am not interested in Seattle.” I read it as, “Seattle hasn’t contacted me. I’m very happy here in Cleveland.”
according to Susan Slusser of the SF Chronicle yeasterday:
“There’s speculation that assistant general manager David Forst is a candidate for Seattle’s GM job, but the Mariners have not called seeking to talk with Forst. It’s widely assumed around the A’s that Forst will take over the GM job in Oakland in the event Billy Beane takes on a more all-encompassing role with the A’s and Earthquakes.”