Friday random jealousy
From Jerry Crasnick’s ESPN chat:
Jacob (Brooklyn): U.S.S. Mariner will revolt if they trade Ichiro. They can’t do that.
Jerry Crasnick: (12:23 PM ET ) Jacob, Heck, at this point, maybe the club should just hire the staff of the USS Mariner blog and let them make all the roster moves for a year. I’d be all for it.
Hee hee hee. Thanks, Jerry.
Jay wrote us to point out Ken Rosenthal says the Japanese players are resented. Wheeeeeeeee, good to see the clubhouse turning on the one fielder making the greatest overall contribution. Why can’t the team pick on overpaid, useless players like Vidro, or Silva, or Washburn, or… you get the point.
Larry Stone, covering for Baker on the Times blog, files a long report on McLaren’s farewell comments in which McLaren confirms clubhouse issues
“I think we have a good group of guys. I think there’s a little tension and friction in there, a little jealousy. That’s for those guys to work out on their own. We (the coaching staff) tried to, and we weren’t very successful. I think they have to do that on their own.
The jealousy bit present in both pieces is interesting. We’ll see how that plays out, but while I can understand players looking at, say, Johjima’s extension with incomprehension, Ichiro’s contract is the least of the team’s problems. This reminds me of Texas blaming Alex’s contract while Chan Park and the rest of their free agent mistakes escaped notice.
What’s tonight’s lineup going to look like? I can’t remember the last time I was this curious about who would play where and bat in what order.
it all sounds classic, though, that after a year of playing like crap various players start looking sideways at the other members of the clubhouse and getting resentful.
personally, I’d have been stabbing my Sexson voodoo doll, but that’s just me.
So, Carlos Silva.
Should we be concerned that whatever dysfunction exists is looked at as a real cause of this team’s failure? It would be a shame to shift focus away from the fact that this group of players, no matter their respective merits as people/teammates, is not very good at playing baseball.
From KJR talking after the McLaren conference call, they brought up stuff like Ichiro staying in separate hotels, taking a different flight from the rest of the team on off-days, generally acting holier-than-thou, issues like that. Basically, your Barry Bonds barcalounger and other prima donna stuff. Now I have no idea if Ichiro actually does this or it was just Mahler or whoever talking through his hat, and I have no idea if any of his teammates care. But it seems like that sort of thing the media is trying to get at with Ichiro, rather than contract jealousy. Of course, quite a few of them still have a bone to pick because he uses an interpreter.
And this hurts the team on the field…how?
If you’re a supervisor/manager of people and if these kinds of jealousy issues are present, then it’s part of your job to deal with them in such a way that the job still gets done. For a ton of reasons it appears that Billy-Mac failed that. Thanks, guys. This should have been dealt with long before now.
The A-Rod thing I never understood. At least with Ichiro I think I know why the other players are complaining (I think they’re wrong, stupid, and possibly crazy, but I think I know why they’re upset).
Most humans are quite sociable. They like belonging to groups. Ichiro doesn’t – socially speaking – belong to the group containing the other players. Reasonably, they shouldn’t care. Whether he’s their friend can’t negatively impact their lives, but somehow they resent that he keeps to himself and doesn’t take part in all the team activities.
Pretty high praise for USSM from the mainstream media. Congrats!
I’ve argued with Dave before about whether co-workers need to have compatible social skills. He thought yes. I thought no.
I think this is the media picking on Ichiro because he’s difficult, the same way they pick on Bedard and Bonds, and they might even be stirring up resentment among the players to help give the story legs.
If the other players’ dislike of Ichiro hurts their performance, that’s the other players’ fault. It might be management’s fault. But it’s certainly not Ichiro’s fault – he has no control over what people think of him.
The players that have business sense know that the Japanese contracts generate so much additional revenue among the Japanese fan base that Ichiro! and Joh are helping the team print money. Isn’t that just simple economics?
Sorry, non-Japanese players who know who you are (even if I don’t), but it’s true, even if it’s a hard pill to swallow. With all this newfangled technology, the world is watching, and paying to do it.
And on the field, Ichiro! is a joy to watch. If I was thinking walk-up some afternoon and read in the lineup announcement that Ichiro! was getting the night off, I’d simply pass and go the next night. Say someone offers you their NBA Cleveland tickets at face value because they can’t make the game. That’s still a high price. And you read that LeBron will be sitting out that game to rest a booboo on his elbow or something. Would you fork over that money, or wait ’til next time?
Although, yes, Johjima’s contract – if tied to on-field performance only – is silly.
And what happened to that feel-good story in the spring about how Ichiro was teaching Raul Japanese, and Raul was teaching Ichiro Spanish? Did someone flunk a quiz?
They sounded so happy then…
This is the kind of thing that hopefully begins to clear up PDQ once the firings reach player level. Quit worrying about what the other guy is making or doing, and start worrying about yourself.
How can the media not love Ichiquotes? If Bonds or Bedard were 10% as funny as he is I’d read everything they say.
#7 I think there is a natural tendency to be jealous of anyone paid dramatically higher than the average when the team is doing poorly.
It was evident (and leaked to the press) in Texas and a few other clubs with other high paid players.
A-Rod is a a conceited jerk, most of the time. Ichiro is merely aloof, most of the time.
Bedard? I wonder how he comes across to team members.
If any of the other players were performing to a degree that it actually mattered what they had to say, well perhaps some weight could be given to this.
This,to me,is a hollow excuse for one’s own under performance and/or lack of talent. Hey, perform and you also may negotiate all types of perks.
Just petty jealousy. Shame on all of them.
But they all look so chummy in the commercials…
How’s that mustache-growing contest going, anyway?
It’s not just an economic jealousy–good players & managers have been allowed more leeway in every era: witness Babe Ruth or the Mickey Mantle, Billy Martin, highjinks.
It may be simple dislike for that which is not understood. Bonds, allegedly, is a dickhead. I’ve never heard that about Ichiro.
If it boils down to chemistry, meaning the players not liking each other, once again witness the 70s, Charlie Finley Oakland A’s, where most of the players disliked Reggie Jackson, the two middle infielders disliked each other intensely, and everybody hated Charlie Finley.
All of which boils down to: good chemistry doesn’t necessarily win games and if you’re winning, good chemistry can be superfluous.
#14 – If anyone should be jealous, Felix should be jealous of Washburn. The pay differential there is staggering, given their performance levels.
Honestly, jealously isn’t the right word for it. Seeing worthless bags of crap making 20x the salary I do would piss me off, too. Were this happening in my workplace it’d be a bit negative, too.
Also from ESPN today – Jim Caple’s Page 2 take on the Mariners’ situation:
“what is Willie Bloomquist — no extra-base hits — doing in the majors leagues?”
By the way, Willie set the team record for most plate appearances for a non-pitcher without an extra base hit. He’s still behind John Moses for the most AB’s without one….
Winning teams don’t worry about good chemistry.
20 – considering WFB has pretty good wheels, that stat is reeeeeally bad…
Sitting at his locker alone, weeping tiny tears of sadness at the thought he will never be as scrappy as David Eckstein.
I think any Mariner who keeps up with Ichiro’s workouts has the right to resent him.
It may well be natural, but it’s unreasonable, and they can stop.
And all this, of course, is the result of building a team with an eye for team chemistry….
I wonder who could be fomenting this dissent in the clubhouse. Silva has singled out one of the players for not being a team player, and Washburn said his Japanese catcher doesn’t call the right pitches, so I’m inclined to think its them.
Which makes the stupid contracts given to them look especially bad…as not only do they provide nothing special on the field, they basically make the atmosphere in the clubhouse poisonous.
Its really baffling as to how people single out Bedard and Ichiro for the team’s problems. Without them the M’s would probably be 30 games under .500 at this point.
Stupid people blame a team’s best players for a team’s problems.
I wonder how much if this would be a non-issue, or at least much diminished if Guillen were still around. Not saying he’s all that we’re missing because there’s obviously more, just wondering.
I didn’t know they had snart people at ESPN 😛
27, actually pretty much everyone has been blamed for the team’s problems so far. Sexson, Vidro, Johjima, Ichiro, Washburn, Bedard, Batista, McLaren, Bavasi, Pentland, Betancourt, Wilkerson….all of these have been thrown under the bus so far this year, just off my head. Some deserve it more than others, but when a team is this poor and this dysfunctional, everyone should share the blame.
However, blame won’t solve the problems.
I’ve been a people manager for a long time and this kind of crap pops up when the overall situation is bad. This so-called jealousy and envy are really a symptom instead of a cause of the problem. Most of the players are feeling really insecure right now and it leaks out in bad ways. Once whatever happens is over and some stability returns, you’ll see a lot of this evaporate.
Nobody wants the ax to fall on them. They want it to fall on that other yahoo over there, there, don’t you see where I’m pointing!!
Don’t let the news media, with nothing else to do right now, blow it all out of proportion.
Jeebuz, didn’t these guys learn how to get along with their team mates in little league like the rest of us?
I think this is much hullabaloo about not much. I love John McLaren, but he’s obviously a very sensitive guy, and I think he takes these types of issues too seriously. Basically making problems where they don’t exist, or shifting blame.
The team doesn’t need people coddling the players trying to figure out why they don’t like each other. It needs people with an attitude.
Something like this:
“We’re paying you to play baseball, get your ass out there and play, or we’ll find someone who can!”
I disagree. While it’s easy to hate Vidro for being a terrible hitter it’s not fair to blame Vidro for being a terrible hitter because that’s just what he is. Same with Sexson and Bloomquist and Cairo. It’s not fair to blame Washburn or Silva or Batista for being terrible pitchers because that’s just what they are. It’s not fair to blame Ibanez for being slow and clumsy in the outfield because that’s just what he is. The players in general don’t deserve much of the blame.
But the morons who built this roster, expecting those players to be something they are not? Going so far as to pay them and play them like they are? Those are the people who deserve the blame.
Gentle reminder: let’s please not call people “morons” or similar, no matter how frustrated we are.
Thanks!
Yesterday I didn’t read a lot of chemistry threads or jealousy issues – in fact, I read zero. Today, McLaren gives another one of his classic weak, awkward, and sorry, obtuse post-whatever press conferences.
Folks. Let’s take this as a reminder of why we needed McLaren out, along with the GM that got him there.
At the risk of telling the same joke a different way, it sounds like lost their fungo bat!
Sorry, Jeff. Feel free to change “morons” to “esteemed gentlemen.” (I’m being totally serious.)
The two terms are not mutually exclusive. I sense a code-phrase!
Absolutely great
moron mental age between 8-12 therefore baseball moron might be accurate.
I like how the first “side story” on that Rosenthal article portrays the M’s as being gung ho about wanting Antonetti.
Quick, guys, get your resumes into the Mariners front office.
The gig pays great and there is a very low level of expectation to succeed.
You will easily last 4 or 5 years, think of the money you will have.
And you can continue to run USS Mariner, even better because you will have all kinds of inside information you can reveal first on the web site.
The papers will be pissed.
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From Rosenthal’s piece:
“Righty Rafael Soriano could be activated soon.”
Soriano hurting again? What a surprise!
This tells me you like Ichiro and don’t like A-Rod, full stop.
So these are professional coaches being quoted? Non-professional observers can notice that Beltre has simply had bad luck on balls in play, with the same approach he’s always had, but all these gutless anonymous coaches can see is his batting average? Can we find out who these useless shit-stirrers are and fire them?
I mean — correct me if I’m wrong — but isn’t Beltre a guy with a reputation for being well-liked, hard-working, and a team leader?
This is the ugliest Mariners team I can remember.
Yeah, it’s Beltre’s fault. Sure.
Sexson, Vidro, Cairo, Bloomquist — these guys could take 16 hours of extra BP one-on-one in the cage every day, and they’d still suck just as bad.
OscarM is right; they’re scapegoat-hunting. No one’s ever going to say “you’re right, I am bad at playing baseball”. It doesn’t have anything to do with Ichiro. It has to do with too much blame to go around.
Ichiro’s salary resented? He makes ten percent more than Sexson. Who’s the worse bargain?
Honestly, who expects the good players to work harder now? I mean, maybe 30 games in, yeah, try to turn it around, but now? And again, when you have awful management, who wants to work hard for them? When people say a good manager “motivates his players” they’re not saying the guy says “go out there and hustle!” They’re saying he does a good job and gives them something to work for. What do Beltre, Ichiro, Felix, et al have to work for? Their jobs? MAYBE Beltre, but not rightfully so. These are the guys who should not be blamed. So they’re mailing it in now (I doubt it)…who cares? Ichiro can mail it in all he wants, it’s Washburn, Silva, Vidro, and, true, Sexson who better be busting their asses. But again, even Sexson, he knows he’s gone soon. You think if McLaren started batting Vidro 9th 2 weeks ago he’d still have a job? At some point, you give up. Ichiro et al may give up because what’s the point, they can’t save us, and the Sexson’s give up because, what’s the point, I can’t save myself.
Sorry for the rant. Plus, I just don’t believe that guys like Beltre and Ichiro aren’t trying. I don’t think these guys need “extra BP” at this point in their respective careers.
If Beltre really won’t take any extra BP, even as an example of leadership to goad the youngsters into the cage, then that *is* a serious clubhouse
issue. (On-field issues being more serious, of course).
If giving up AB is the price we pay for somehow jettisoning Sexsy, Vidro, and Bedard, I can live with that. And Ichiro is the most tradeable player we have. Dumping him for a heap of prospects isn’t something I’d recommend, but…if ever a team had “Fire Sale!” written all over it, it would be this bunch. Think of that this way: how likely are we to be perennial contenders again before Ichiro retires?