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The Worst Stretch Of Hitting… Ever?
Derek’s post on Bloomquist below inspired me to do some digging into longest stretches without an extra base hit, since WFB is a couple of weeks away from the one year mark since the last time he got more than a single (July 15th, 2007). His streak currently stands at an impressive 150 plate appearances, which struck me as a really long time, so using Baseball Reference’s awesome Play Index, I started comparing that to other players in the last twenty years.
At first, I didn’t think I’d find anything that surpassed Juan Pierre’s 2000 campaign, when the Rockies called him up from Triple-A in August of that year to make his major league debut. He got two doubles in his first four career games, and then finished the season without another extra base hit, spanning 203 plate appearances. While playing in Colorado. He even hit .306, but it was all singles. Pretty amazing.
But then, I saw this, and my mouth hit the floor.
From April 25th, 1997 to June 16th, 1998, Mike Mordecai not only didn’t get an extra base hit, but he played in 71 games and went 15 for 127. Fifteen for One Hundred Twenty Seven. He tossed in 3 walks and 25 strikeouts for good measure. That’s a .118/.137/.118 line.
I can’t even fathom keeping a position player around long enough to go 15 for 127 without an extra base hit and three walks. Every time he went to the plate, you’d have been better off with a random pitcher.
That’s the kind of performance you would think would get you drummed out of baseball, but Mordecai went on to play seven more seasons after that stretch of futility and rack up 1,362 major league at-bats over 12 years.
.118/.137/.118. From a position player.
For all of Willie’s faults, he’s no Mike Mordecai.
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Pretty sad when one of the few good things you can say about a guy is “He’s no Mike Mordecai.”
I just discovered the M’s new slogan:
“Mariners baseball: at least Mike Mordecai isn’t on our roster.”
mike mordecai has a ring. willie does not
And he did a whole lot to help the Braves get it, didn’t he?
Let’s see:
1-3, 1 K, 0 XBH in the ‘95 series
Looks more like he got lucky and ended up on a great team.
I searched and couldn’t find anything about Mike Mordecai getting dirt on his jersey. Willie seems to get dirt on his jersey a whole bunch of times.
I’m pretty sure WFB could have done that. ^^^
Yes, according to this Wikipedia entry written by the player’s mother:
“Mordecai was a key cog in the 1995 World Series team as he provided depth on the bench.”
Later qualified by:
“Unfortunately for Mordecai, the Braves had Mark Lemke at second base, Chipper Jones at third and Fred McGriff at first preventing him from getting more than a reserve role with the team.”
- because yes, it takes a couple of probable Hall of Famers to keep Mike Mordecai from taking the field.
(In defense of this puff, he posted a 280/.353/.480 line over 75 whole at-bats in 1995).
According to today’s Bellingham Herald, we see Bloomquist as “evil in spikes”.
I think that article is wrong when it says that there are only two groups. I think WFB has some value, even though that value only lies in him being the 25th guy on the roster. Can he bring something to the team? Yes. He’s a good pinch runner, and he plays adequate defense at a variety of positions. He should NEVER start in CF, though.
I note with great interest that in 1898, Willie Keeler had 216 hits with only 10 extra base hits–7 doubles, 2 triples, 1 home run.
Even in that era, that’s almost inconceivable–Keeler wasn’t close to the end of his career and he was still fairly fast. I haven’t been able to find anyone else with over 200 hits who came close.
I would like to apologize on behalf of my hometown paper. They don’t know any better sometimes.
Funny you should mention that, though, since the M’s did have one of his comparables around at one time — none other than the legendary Rey Quinones!
May I draw your attention to the majesty that is Tony Pena, Jr., 2008 edition:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/penato02.shtml
177 PAs with an OPS+ of… -2. But, hey, he’s got 5 XBH!
To get rid off him, you have to find a replacement for him of about the same value. Is there any in the system? You guys are talking about Clement and Balentien, is that what you want them to become - a util who gets to play sometime? It is better for them to play everyday down in AAA than sit and watch in the big league as he usually does, although past week is somewhat different. If you look for the mistakes of the FO you should mentioned Bedard for Jones and comp. We would have a rising CF and WFB would be praying for PH situation every night.
This streak of Willie’s reminds me Sexson doing the opposite. Last year didn’t he set the record for most games or plate appearances or something without recording a single? He didn’t hit a single last year until April 29th, spanning 19 games, and something like 74 PA. In that time, 3HR, 6 2B, 8 BB, .136/.230/.364.
So I think what we learn here is…well, nothing. The streaks just reminded me of each other. And I just remember analysts realizing that what Richie was doing hadn’t been done before.
The thing that strikes me about WFB is that, like Pierre in 2000, he has some speed but still can’t make it to second base. So, when he *does* get a hit, it’s a grounder with eyes or a blooper.
He may have value on the basepaths or as a defensive replacement, but he’s got no business having a bat in his hands.
Cairo - .530
Vidro — .583
Johjima - .585
Wlad - .611
Bloom - .617
For all of the Bloom Doom being espoused — the larger picture is that currently, WFB happens to be the 8th best hitter on the roster.
Good lord, you’re right! Why is this never discussed?
Mariners 2008, “We’re no Mordecai!”
That is quite a condemnation of a farm system, to imply that there is no one capable of being a utility outfielder, no one capable of being a .250 singles hitter (with Cairo around, WFB doesn’t get to play in the infield much).
I’ve got Jose Valdivielso for 221 at bats without an XBH from June 1960 to June 1961.
Apologies to DEO who already mentioned the Valdivielso streak in the previous thread. I do think it might be the record though.
In truth, something that doesn’t get discussed much is what a team SHOULD want from its bench players.
The typical scenario is a handful of specialists.
A good infield glove who can play multiple spots and perhaps pinch-run.
A decent lefty bat.
A decent righty bat.
A good outfield glove, who can play any OF position to give the starters some rest.
That’s the 4 prototype bench resumes. But, the thing that gets overlooked is that anyone with ’significant’ talent SHOULD be a starter. So, your bench is typically destined to have deficiencies — if the bench guys weren’t deficient SOMEHOW, then they’d be starters after all.
The question that is NOT asked - is what TYPE of hitters are you likely to get the most value from - if they are going to be used primarily off the bench?
IMO, the key factor is in identifying which ‘types’ of hitters are low maintenance. You want guys who can come in cold, but be instantly competent (within their skill-set). How do you BECOME a Mike Mordecai or an Orlando Palmeiro — a guy with borderline skills who plays for 10+ years?
I think the key is simple — low Ks, low power. These are guys that can put together “professional” at bats. They get wood on the ball and typically don’t ‘embarrass’ the manager when they grab some wood. It’s like the design criteria for the Ms over the past 4 years — low K contact hitters. They don’t start, (normally), because they don’t have the power to get XBHes — and they don’t have the speed to steal 50. But, they can put the ball in play, and hence “give the team a chance”.
I suspect that high-walk, power guys are particularly bad for this role, because they “likely” require more live pitching to maintain their skill sets. Wilkerson would be my candidate for WORST type of player to bring off your bench. His skillset probably requires a lot more “flow”, a greater need to play on a daily basis to stay sharp.
This is why I think some players who get tapped as “role-players” early, often have sudden “surprising” performances later in their careers when injuries open up the door for them to play full time. Guys like David Dellucci.
He hit .302/.388/.466 in the minors - a .854 line.
That’s 80 points of patience and 160 isolated power.
At age 24, he plays full time, struggles, (like many rookies), and posts a .260/.318/.399 line for a .717 OPS in 416 major league at-bats. He then gets assigned to the role of 4th OF and pinch-hitter. He NEVER managed 400 ABs in a season again until 2005, at age 31. Then he posts a .251/.367/.513 line.
But, high-walk guys — guys who rely on a keen batting eye, excel as they get more familiar with pitchers and umpires. Bouncing back and forth from league to league likely hurts their ability to get comfortable.
Of course, every individual hitter is different. There are certainly exceptions. But, hitters “like” Willie could easily be the “optimal” bench bat you could ask for. Yes, it would be nice to have someone with more power on the bench, but then again, it would be nice to have someone with more anything in your regular lineup.
#18 — Adam Jones wailing has toned down significantly over the months - primarily because he’s currently posting a .669 OPS. When he starts hitting better than Sexson, I’m sure the subject will become popular again.
Recondite Baseball calculated most consecutive games played without an XBH. Willie is currently at 63 I think and is about to crack the top 20 of all time.
The stretch is pretty amazing, and although I think WFB totally sucks, I don’t think he’ll break the record…he’ll hit a gab for a hustle double, or someone will play the ball wrong, make a poor throw or something…I’d love to see him break the record, but I don’t think he will…
Record streak or not, he should not be starting at all, all agreed. So be a GM for a moment, your season is long gone, what would you do with the rest of it? I really want to know if majority here can just bark or can come up with something.
Now y’all have done it. The M’s are going to find and sign Mordecai. At 40 he’s surely not done yet, and his great versatility and veteran leadership will allow them to use WFB and Cairo in key situations early, and still have another card to play!
no, I just get tired of wailing all the time.
the article is actually from Ryan Divish at the Tacoma News Tribune …
The reason why am I asking is that here in the Czech republic we say that everybody can be a ntional soccer team manager so I assume it goes for baseball the same way in US
27- I think responding with what we’d do with this team would be off-topic…
We are supposed to be discussing how bad WFB is…
This streak of Willie’s reminds me Sexson doing the opposite. Last year didn’t he set the record for most games or plate appearances or something without recording a single?
He was saving them all up for this year.
According to today’s Bellingham Herald, we see Bloomquist as “evil in spikes”.
Wait until they find out how we see Bellingham.
Mordecai didn’t have any speed, either.
Fascinating.
Mordecai had two at-bats in that fateful (for Cubs fans) 6th inning where Bartman got his hands on the ball instead of Moises Alou.
Mordecai had 2 RBI’s and one run scored that very inning.
The stretch is pretty amazing…I’d love to see him break the record, but I don’t think he will…
Yeah, plus there’s all the pressure. As with anyone trying to break DiMaggio’s streak, all the mounting attention and the pressure to keep it up game after game takes a mental toll, gets into your head, screws up your approach. Sooner or later he’s gonna mess up and get a double, or mistakenly leg out a triple, or just completely fold under the pressure and hit a home run. As much as I’d like to see him break the record, in this age and media environment — all the attention from the blogs, etc — I don’t think such an extended run of consistent performance at that level is possible. Even for Willie Bloomquist.
Joser-
I know you are being sarcastic, but seriously, he has to know about it, the guys are probably ribbing him about it, so he probably is getting nervous about it…
A little more on Jose Valdivielso. He played parts of 5 seasons with the Senators / Twins from 1955 to 1961 (but wasn’t in the majors in ‘57 or ‘58). His career line was .219/.282/.290 with an painful OPS+ of 55.
From June 19, 1960 to July 5, 1961, he played 80 games, with (I’m pretty sure) 249 plate appearances and 0 XBH. His line during that stretch: .204/.264/.204.
And now, some more on Wayne Tollesen and his futile run for the record (if, in fact, Valdivielso’s is the longest stretch ever).
Tollesen played parts of 10 seasons for the Rangers, White Sox, and Yankees from 1981 to 1990, with a career line of .241/.307.293 and OPS+ of 66. He was bad, but not as bad as Valdivielso.
On May 27, 1987, he hit is 4th double of the season against the Mariners (and had homered almost 2 weeks earlier in a game against the same Mariners). This double was to be his last of ’87. He would play 66 more games, with 230 plate appearances and no doubles, triples or homers.
Imagine the anticipation at ’88 dawned, with Wayne only 19 plate appearances from Valdy’s hallowed record. But the chase would have to wait – Tollesen didn’t join the big club until June 10. After keeping the streak alive for two games (with 9 plate appearances), he finally doubled on June 12 against Baltimore. Tollesen fell 10 plate appearances short of Valdivielso. During the streak, he “hit” .190/.274/.190.
I’m sure the M’s broadcast team will want to interview these legends, as Willie chases history!
My favorite terrible hitter has always been Bill Bergen, Reds and Dodgers catcher from a hundred years ago. Even in the dead ball era, a lifetime OPS under .400 is pretty spectacular. Check out 1906: .139/.163/.156 in 372 PA. That’s almost three times the playing time that Mordecai got. Or 1909’s .139/.163/.156 in the same number of PA — that’s a .319 OPS in a .634 league. He played almost a thousand games, well over three thousand plate appearances, pounding out a .170/.194/.201 line. Must have been a hell of a backstop.
If only there was a blog somewhere, with an author that posted regular articles on what the Mariners could reasonably do!
Thanks to Jack Howland’s link to the Recondite Baseball report (#25) above, there’s another candidate for The Record (at least w.r.t. plate appearances).
Larry Lintz, of the Expos in 1974-75 went 67 games with 263 plate appearances without an XBH.
He doubled in the first game of a doubleheader on Sept 3, 1974 and doubled again in the 1st game of a DH almost a year later - Aug 26, 1975. In between, he came to the plate 263 times, got 43 hits in 216 AB and turned in a line of .198/.318/.199.
Soon after he passed Valdivielso, the Expos shipped him to St. Louis. He batted in 3 games for the Cardinals, then had 5 straight games where his only activity was as a pinch runner (those games don’t count in The Streak, since he didn’t come to bat). Finally, on Aug 26, 1975, in a home game against the Astros, he doubled in his only plate appearance.
So, as far as I can tell, as least going back as far as Baseball Reference will take me for free:
Larry Lintz hold the record at 263 consecutive plate appearances without an extra base hit.
for some reason I keep thinking Mordecai Brown.
There’s another similarity between Bloomie and Mordecai. Mordecai came up for a cup of coffee in 1994 and hit a HR in 4 at bats, then in 1995 he got 75 AB, posting a 280/353/480 line. Not quite as good as Willie’s first September, but it might have bought him some time.
I don’t know why, but until I looked Mordecai up I thought he was a catcher.
By the way: I don’t see Bloomquist as “evil in spikes”.
He is PURE EVIL IN SPIKES.
With a pony.
WFB’s Career OPS+ 73
Mordecai’s Career OPS+ 72
I am surprised that they aren’t Similar Batters for each other on B-Ref.
In my mind, Willie essentially replaced Charles Gipson on the roster. Gipson was very athletic, lightning fast, but a terrible hitter. I figured Willie would have the same shelf life as Gipson, that being until he became arb-eligible, but that’s not been the case. I have no big problem with what he’s being paid, though - 950K is change under the couch cushions on Seattle’s books.
If Reed keeps hitting and Willie cools off from his tiny sample size streak, I’m hopefully anticipating that Willie will get fewer AB’s in July.
Hey - Willie leads the Mariners this year in OBP
Me too! Me too! Me too!
Short version: the silver lining of a doomed season is that you can give extended tryouts to riskier (but higher-potential) AAA+ prospects. If you don’t have any in your organization, trade for them.
I mean, uh, Willie Ballgame! Yeah!
Dan W — that’s true, and it’s bizarre. It’s not unusual for a guy to be a high-OBP, low-SLG hitter; it IS unusual for it to be this extreme. Usually, it’s a guy with similar OBP and SLG, say .370 for each, which is still a fairly unexciting .740 OPS but given the value of getting on base still a valuable hitter, maybe even a leadoff hitter. But Willie doesn’t just have a LOW SLG; he’s got an ABYSMAL SLG, literally zero isolated power. that’s just unheard of; note that the guys we’re talking about here didn’t have anywhere near Willie’s OBP.
He’s a weird hitter, that’s for sure. I’m actually happy to see him taking all those walks; I will give him credit. For a lousy hitter, he’s doing exactly what he should be doing: maximizing what skill he has, and finding value by being selective and forcing them to walk him. I wish it would rub off on the other M’s, who, if they added some selectivity at the plate might actually be good hitters. Willie’s never going to become a GOOD hitter by walking a lot, but guys like Beltre and Lopez, I think, could pump up their averages and slugging by learning from Bloomie (!!) and walking more.
What would be funny is if Bloomquist someday (soon, I hope!) becomes a really good hitting instructor. Walt Hriniak was a godawful hitter too, you know, but George Brett was pretty OK. Sometimes the guys who can’t quite do it themselves have a keener notion of how to do the thing they just don’t have the ability for than the guys it comes easier to.
Let’s not turn this comment thread into the 2008 Mariners Revamp Plan, please.
Let’s focus on PURE EVIL IN SPIKES. (Yes, I think that article hilariously overstated our position on Willie)
maybe it is time for that Willie B FAQ on a sidebar.
I don’t think he merits a promotion to the sidebar!
The people who always freak out about us being mean to poor Wee Willie won’t read it anyway.
23: I always look to the bench players in 2001:
Stan Javier–switch hitter, could play all three outfield positions and first base
Mark McLemore–switch hitter, could play left field and three infield positions, pinch run and could be a regular in left or second base if needed
Tom Lampkin–left handed backup catcher to go with right handed starter
Charles Gipson–couldn’t really hit much, but could be outfield defense and a pinch runner
By 2002, the switch-hitters had become a fetish: McLemore, Guillen, Sierra, Relaford (essentially replacing McLemore, who was a regular), Ben Davis (ugh), Jose Offerman, Luis Ugueto (whose presence as a Rule 5 guy with no talent drove Lou mad), and Sir Gene Kingsale. Nonetheless, having a switch hitter or two on the bench really screws up the opposing manager’s options.
As to Mike Mordecai, I figure he’s on the short list for a permanent batting coach for this club.
But will Willie ever be drafted into Mr. Burns softball team? I think not. Long lives the legend of “Three Finger” Brown. Also, Honus Wagner.
“In fact, your right fielder has been dead for 130 years.”
I think that part of the article fits a wider pattern of the traditional regional print press seeking to marginalize the one part of the fan base that won’t Drink The Raul-Aid.
Bottom line is, a guy who doesn’t have the talent to belong on a major league roster now has a stat attached to his performance that even the old-schoolers can’t ignore.
39: Man, Bergen would’ve made Dave Valle look like Johnny Bench at the plate by comparison.
The thing is, having a guy like Willie on your bench SHOULD give you hitting versatility, not just defensive versatility. Because you can use your big slow pinch slugger when you need him, late in games, and not have to worry about where you’re going to put him on the field; Willie will play there. In effect, he turns ANY bench hitter into a SS, 3B, 2B, RF, CF, whatever you need. That’s a useful tool.
Unfortunately, the Mariners don’t have any hitters on their bench (or anywhere else). It’s like watching a guy use the blades on his fancy Swiss army knive to dig aimlessly in the ground.
I’m ok with Willie as the 25th man, the utility guy we see once a week. But man am I sick and tired of seeing his face in the line-up everyday. Its getting ridiculous. He should not be platooning with Reed, or anyone. Maybe Miguel Cairo should threaten to go to a National League club as well so they can fins a everyday spot for him as well.
Mike Mordecai had a better peak.
Let it be known that the Bellingham Herald’s sports staff is not responsible for the piece on Willie. It is a McClatchy wire article that they printed.
as mentioned, originally written for the TNT by Ryan Divish.
I still blame them for printing it!
Then tomorrow we can have the joy of waiting to see who writes about how terribly hard we are on consummate strikethrower Silva, even as he loses a head-to-head versus recently DFA’d Cha Seung Baek and the hated SD Fathers!
I saw Larry Lintz play a season of D ball, back in the dark ages before the lowest level was A.
You would never know it from looking at his major league career stats, but I remember him well because at the D level anyone good enough to be a marginal major leaguer is going to stand out so well that a young kid would take notice.
If Baek throws a shutout against us I’m going to weep tears of blood for the irony of it all.
Here are the five unofficial records that I see Willie chasing along with the all time leaders. I gave partial game credit on ABs and PAs on each end of the streak which is why my numbers differ slightly from DEO’s calculations. If somebody wanted to check my math, that would be great:
100 - Consecutive games without an XBH - Greg Gross
223 - Consecutive at bats without an XBH - Jose Valdivielso
266 - Consecutive PAs without an XBH - Larry Lintz
124 - Full season with no XBH in ABs - Dwain Anderson
144 - Full season with no XBH in PAs - Dwain Anderson
This is where Willie Stands:
76 — Consecutive games without an XBH
146 - Consecutive at bats without an XBH
166 - Consecutive PAs without an XBH
77 — 2008 season with no XBH in ABs
90 — 2008 season with no XBH in PAs
67: So if he plays regularly, he could have the first three by the end of July. A consummation devouted NOT to be wished.
Willie gets more playing time than he logically deserves because the Mariners are more interested in making money than winning games. He’s a local Charlie Hustle good guy underdog, “The Igniter” always ready for a quote for the Seattle Times. Mariner fans are diverse, with a substantial number from places like Kent and Renton who are just looking for someone they can identify with, not worrying how many consecutive games he’s gone without an extra base hit.
“PURE EVIL IN SPIKES” is a great nickname.
It’s better than WFB, Willie Ballgame, or Princess Willie!
Rob Neyer has an article on ESPN.com about who’s chasing records and shamefully neglected to mention Willie.
Willie isn’t here for his hitting. He’s here for his Gritting!
Ted Williams may have hit .400 but The WFB grits 1.000!
.400 looks pretty paltry next 1.000.
He may not hit much, but he grits better than anyone!
He’s not much of a hitter, but he’s a HOF gritter!
You don’t have to hit the ball when you can grit the ball.
He gets his uniform dirty.
He doesn’t steal bases, he obtains ‘Moneybags’. So sayeth The Rizzs.
Rickey might have 1400+ SB’s but how many Moneybags does he have? Huh?