Comments on: All-Time All-Mariner Roster: Shortstop

By: DMZ

DMZ — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:50:05 +0000

No, he didn’t. Six games.

You might in the future want to consider checking this kind of stuff before posting, rather than having people correct you on it. Baseball Reference has all this information readily available for you.

By: mw3

mw3 — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 00:31:16 +0000

Sorry for the incorrect reference to Alex’ steals in ‘96 I’m getting old and I somehow got ‘98 and ‘96 confused. By the way how close was this to being a three year argument between ‘96 ‘98 ‘00. Man was he good in 1998, when if my memory is working better today, I believe he hit leadoff quite a bit.

By: paulkersey

paulkersey — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 08:14:33 +0000

Not exactly a list of hall of fame talents. If we didn’t have BIS data now, you’d be concluding that none of them could possibly have sustained that kind of LD% over a full year either.

I’m sure Dave isn’t going to read this, but just in case, I have some more to say.

That list doesn’t do much to deflate my claim that 26.8+ LD%s are rare. Six player-seasons out of how many hundreds? Also, I wouldn’t dream of saying it’s impossible (nor highly improbable) to post such a rate. It’s just that a player like A-Rod who’s career rate is under 20 isn’t likely to have played one season like a completely different hitter. You is what you is, as they say.

Just for fun (and to make my case stronger), here are the career LD rates of the players you listed:

Loretta: 26.3%
Sanchez: 24.2%
Roberts: 23.6%
Young: 25.2%
Kennedy: 24.1%

Pretty compelling, no?

By: Shrike

Shrike — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:23:48 +0000

I remember the summer of 2000. I was visiting Yankee Stadium for the first time. I had an (amicable!) argument with a New Yorker that A-Rod was better than Derek Jeter. Maybe my Canadian accent helped. Or the fact that my debater was attending the game with his young son.

The Mariners won 4-2 and Alex hit a mammoth home run that day.

By: paulkersey

paulkersey — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:46:20 +0000

Players who have posted a LD% of higher than 26.8% in the last couple of years.

2006 Freddy Sanchez
2005 Brian Roberts
2007 Michael Young
2006 Mark Loretta
2005 Mark Loretta
2006 Adam Kennedy

Not exactly a list of hall of fame talents. If we didn’t have BIS data now, you’d be concluding that none of them could possibly have sustained that kind of LD% over a full year either.

It happens far too often to just dismiss the possibility without any evidence.

I really can’t emphasize enough that I’m not dismissing the possibility. Look at those players you listed, though. Did any of them slug anywhere near .600 in those seasons? Absolutely not.

Few players (especially in the past 60 years or so) have ever possessed the skills to hit a non-lucky .358 with power. It takes extreme talent in two areas that just aren’t seen together very often. Most players, including A-Rod, have to trade some contact for power or vice versa. Albert Pujols is a player who doesn’t, but he’s among the best five or so hitters ever to play.

By: DMZ

DMZ — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 16:32:24 +0000

It seems as if DMZ will never admit his initial selection is wrong in any of these position discussions.

This assumes that the initial selection is wrong.

We’re four into this, it’s early to start drawing conclusions about our ability to be persuasive or persuaded.

By: Dave

Dave — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:43:58 +0000

Players who have posted a LD% of higher than 26.8% in the last couple of years.

2006 Freddy Sanchez
2005 Brian Roberts
2007 Michael Young
2006 Mark Loretta
2005 Mark Loretta
2006 Adam Kennedy

Not exactly a list of hall of fame talents. If we didn’t have BIS data now, you’d be concluding that none of them could possibly have sustained that kind of LD% over a full year either.

It happens far too often to just dismiss the possibility without any evidence.

By: Jeff Nye

Jeff Nye — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:29:34 +0000

You do realize that Dave and Derek are different people, right?

And that Derek hasn’t posted a single comment in this thread?

By: andrew23

andrew23 — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 15:17:15 +0000

It seems as if DMZ will never admit his initial selection is wrong in any of these position discussions. First Olerud, now A-Rod 96.

By: paulkersey

paulkersey — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:02:38 +0000

I also take exception with the idea that I’m “making stuff up.” A LD rate of 26.8% (it bears mentioning at this point that Rodriguez has a career LD% of 18.1 and a career BABIP of .327, so I may be setting the bar high) is a relatively rare thing. The best rate A-Rod has managed since FanGraphs has been keeping track is 22.8%. Furthermore, in the years prior to the recorded batted-ball data, the best BABIP he posted–setting ‘96 aside–was .342. All of this points to a .388 BABIP being lucky. I may be wrong, but it’s hardly like I’m pulling this out of thin air.

Anytime a hitter bats .358 in this day and age (especially a righty), there’s a good chance luck was involved. His OBP and SLG% were boosted to eye-popping levels by that batting average. I like 2000 better, if for no other reason then because it’s clear A-Rod had come into possession of elite secondary skills.

If you still think I’m making stuff up, I guess I’ll just yield and point to his EqAs: .334 in ‘96 and .343 in 2000.