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	<title>Comments on: And the Sonics are out</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: aaron c.</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287280</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron c.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:13:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287280</guid>
		<description>Also, in response to those that equate the Grizzlies moving to Seattle as us putting the city of Memphis through the same thing we&#039;ve gone through:

As a native of Memphis, I can say with near 100% certainty that this isn&#039;t the case. The Grizzlies have been in Memphis for seven years. The interest in having a professional team was limited to a very small portion of the community and motivated mainly by a desire among the wealthy and business interests to make Memphis more of a &quot;world-class&quot; sort of city. The vast majority of the population couldn&#039;t have cared less; Tigers basketball is much, much more important and ingrained in the fabric of the community.

So, while it would suck for some people in the area, it&#039;s not really all that comparable of a situation. Memphis did fine for 200+ years without pro sports; they&#039;ve got Elvis and Stax. What more do they need to prove?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, in response to those that equate the Grizzlies moving to Seattle as us putting the city of Memphis through the same thing we&#8217;ve gone through:</p>
<p>As a native of Memphis, I can say with near 100% certainty that this isn&#8217;t the case. The Grizzlies have been in Memphis for seven years. The interest in having a professional team was limited to a very small portion of the community and motivated mainly by a desire among the wealthy and business interests to make Memphis more of a &#8220;world-class&#8221; sort of city. The vast majority of the population couldn&#8217;t have cared less; Tigers basketball is much, much more important and ingrained in the fabric of the community.</p>
<p>So, while it would suck for some people in the area, it&#8217;s not really all that comparable of a situation. Memphis did fine for 200+ years without pro sports; they&#8217;ve got Elvis and Stax. What more do they need to prove?</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287279</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287279</guid>
		<description>Hi!

Look, I&#039;m as disappointed as anyone, but the name-calling and general horribleness of things said is way, way out of hand. It&#039;s okay to be angry, but you can be angry and not, say, wish harm on someone, or call them names, and so on.

Please. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi!</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m as disappointed as anyone, but the name-calling and general horribleness of things said is way, way out of hand. It&#8217;s okay to be angry, but you can be angry and not, say, wish harm on someone, or call them names, and so on.</p>
<p>Please. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287278</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287278</guid>
		<description>Okay, collective venting is in danger of losing control, comments are closed, back to baseball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, collective venting is in danger of losing control, comments are closed, back to baseball.</p>
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		<title>By: amsballs</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287277</link>
		<dc:creator>amsballs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287277</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;OppositeField said:

As a sports fan, it just shakes me to my core. What is the point of investing so much time, money, and emotion in this stuff if it can just be snatched away like this? What does it make of my memories of being at the NBA Finals with my dad?&lt;/em&gt;

I know it certainly cheapens mine. I was a teenager in 90s and the Sonics were my life. It&#039;s hard to think about those playoff runs now. I was SO into it.

And on &lt;em&gt;DMZ&#039;s arena comment&lt;/em&gt;, or, where i think he was going with it, at least...  

In 1995 The City opened a $133M Brand New Arena for the Sonics (the $75M figure you often hear or read about did not take into account the leftovers from the Coliseum, which would have been purchased if we didn&#039;t already have them (stuff like the large concrete bridge that was fully included into the design), a 17,000 seat capacity, along with 58 suites, which were nice ones. 

The OKC Ford Center was constructed in 2002 for a cost of $89 M, with 18500 for basketball and 49 suites.  

So, does the additional 1,500 seats really make such a huge difference? Especially with reduced suites? 

Now take into account the proposed modifications of both buildings. At Ford, you&#039;re getting a $121.6 M makeover (malls and stuff) and, BAM, it&#039;s all of the sudden a &quot;viable NBA  arena,&quot; as Stern likes to say.   

How can Ford be viable when the Key, even AFTER $220-300M in renovations to Bellevue Square-ize it still be NOT viable to the NBA? 

WHERE&#039;S THE BEEF?

I hate David Stern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>OppositeField said:</p>
<p>As a sports fan, it just shakes me to my core. What is the point of investing so much time, money, and emotion in this stuff if it can just be snatched away like this? What does it make of my memories of being at the NBA Finals with my dad?</em></p>
<p>I know it certainly cheapens mine. I was a teenager in 90s and the Sonics were my life. It&#8217;s hard to think about those playoff runs now. I was SO into it.</p>
<p>And on <em>DMZ&#8217;s arena comment</em>, or, where i think he was going with it, at least&#8230;  </p>
<p>In 1995 The City opened a $133M Brand New Arena for the Sonics (the $75M figure you often hear or read about did not take into account the leftovers from the Coliseum, which would have been purchased if we didn&#8217;t already have them (stuff like the large concrete bridge that was fully included into the design), a 17,000 seat capacity, along with 58 suites, which were nice ones. </p>
<p>The OKC Ford Center was constructed in 2002 for a cost of $89 M, with 18500 for basketball and 49 suites.  </p>
<p>So, does the additional 1,500 seats really make such a huge difference? Especially with reduced suites? </p>
<p>Now take into account the proposed modifications of both buildings. At Ford, you&#8217;re getting a $121.6 M makeover (malls and stuff) and, BAM, it&#8217;s all of the sudden a &#8220;viable NBA  arena,&#8221; as Stern likes to say.   </p>
<p>How can Ford be viable when the Key, even AFTER $220-300M in renovations to Bellevue Square-ize it still be NOT viable to the NBA? </p>
<p>WHERE&#8217;S THE BEEF?</p>
<p>I hate David Stern.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron c.</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287276</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron c.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287276</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s been a while since I&#039;ve been an NBA fan. Baseball has pretty much taken over my life these last ten years, and whit little energy I have left is dedicated to the Seahawks. With that being said, I have a lot of friends who love the Sonics as much as I love the Mariners. And even though I was just a little kid, I remember how much the Sonics teams of the Payton/Kemp/Karl years meant to me. I remember waking up early on a Saturday morning to hear the debut of &quot;Not In Our House&quot; on KUBE 93.3. I remember sobbing uncontrollably while I watched Dikembe Mutombo celebrate what was at that time the most improbable comeback in professional sports history. I remember knowing that the 1996 team didn&#039;t have a chance in the world of beating the Bulls, but not caring in the least and screaming my head off the whole way through the series. Despite the fact that the Mariners became my one true love, the Sonics were the first team I ever felt connected to, and in many ways, the first thing that made me feel at home in the Pacific Northwest. They define a very specific, very happy period of my life, and I can&#039;t look back on that time as fondly as I used to any more. This is a sad day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a while since I&#8217;ve been an NBA fan. Baseball has pretty much taken over my life these last ten years, and whit little energy I have left is dedicated to the Seahawks. With that being said, I have a lot of friends who love the Sonics as much as I love the Mariners. And even though I was just a little kid, I remember how much the Sonics teams of the Payton/Kemp/Karl years meant to me. I remember waking up early on a Saturday morning to hear the debut of &#8220;Not In Our House&#8221; on KUBE 93.3. I remember sobbing uncontrollably while I watched Dikembe Mutombo celebrate what was at that time the most improbable comeback in professional sports history. I remember knowing that the 1996 team didn&#8217;t have a chance in the world of beating the Bulls, but not caring in the least and screaming my head off the whole way through the series. Despite the fact that the Mariners became my one true love, the Sonics were the first team I ever felt connected to, and in many ways, the first thing that made me feel at home in the Pacific Northwest. They define a very specific, very happy period of my life, and I can&#8217;t look back on that time as fondly as I used to any more. This is a sad day.</p>
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		<title>By: Axtell</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287275</link>
		<dc:creator>Axtell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287275</guid>
		<description>[conspiracy theory]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[conspiracy theory]</p>
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		<title>By: whiskeychainsaw</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287274</link>
		<dc:creator>whiskeychainsaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287274</guid>
		<description>[ding!]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[ding!]</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287272</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287272</guid>
		<description>Stern screams that the revamped KeyArena idea is a non-starter, but when his buddy Bennett gets what he wants, suddenly a revamped KeyArena would be just fine for another team.  Right.

As to Memphis, they stole the Grizzlies, I don&#039;t see that they have any moral superiority here if they can&#039;t support their team.  Same with New Orleans, which not only stole the Hornets, but did so with the most obnoxious lease guaranty possible.  It&#039;s like Baltimore losing the Colts and stealing the Browns.  After awhile, it&#039;s all fair game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stern screams that the revamped KeyArena idea is a non-starter, but when his buddy Bennett gets what he wants, suddenly a revamped KeyArena would be just fine for another team.  Right.</p>
<p>As to Memphis, they stole the Grizzlies, I don&#8217;t see that they have any moral superiority here if they can&#8217;t support their team.  Same with New Orleans, which not only stole the Hornets, but did so with the most obnoxious lease guaranty possible.  It&#8217;s like Baltimore losing the Colts and stealing the Browns.  After awhile, it&#8217;s all fair game.</p>
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		<title>By: jro</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287268</link>
		<dc:creator>jro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287268</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a shame it had to happen to us, but &lt;strike&gt;Napoleon&lt;/strike&gt; Stern will get his due after about 3 years of the OKC Stuper-Sonics.  When the league is reeling due to its bad business model, the fingers will be levied at Stern.  Big prediction: this move will be marked as a defining moment in the decline of the NBA (and Stern) as we know it.

Stern takes a team from a market much more sizable and valuable than New Orleans and puts them in a market less sizable and valuable than New Orleans? One that&#039;s geographically near the Dallas Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs? And the Hornets are a team that went deep into the playoffs.

Another prediction: we&#039;ll have a shot at more than one franchise within five years because other towns are having trouble meeting Stern&#039;s dumb-ass business model.  Frying pan, meet fryer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a shame it had to happen to us, but <strike>Napoleon</strike> Stern will get his due after about 3 years of the OKC Stuper-Sonics.  When the league is reeling due to its bad business model, the fingers will be levied at Stern.  Big prediction: this move will be marked as a defining moment in the decline of the NBA (and Stern) as we know it.</p>
<p>Stern takes a team from a market much more sizable and valuable than New Orleans and puts them in a market less sizable and valuable than New Orleans? One that&#8217;s geographically near the Dallas Mavericks and San Antonio Spurs? And the Hornets are a team that went deep into the playoffs.</p>
<p>Another prediction: we&#8217;ll have a shot at more than one franchise within five years because other towns are having trouble meeting Stern&#8217;s dumb-ass business model.  Frying pan, meet fryer.</p>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/02/and-the-sonics-are-out/comment-page-2/#comment-287266</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5437#comment-287266</guid>
		<description>A devastating day in the life of a Seattle sports fan :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A devastating day in the life of a Seattle sports fan <img src='http://ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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