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The Future Forty 3/19/09
Evaluating Defense Evaluating Pitcher Talent
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Game 100, Red Sox at Mariners
Matsuzaka versus Dickey.
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Twittah
With RA emerging as the M’s #2 starter these days…
Who knew?
From Rule 5 guy to #2, yeah, it’s quite a climb. But he was a Dave approved pick up at the time. (And I still think “Lowe, Dickey, and Putz” sounds like a vaudevillian law firm).
Also, this series might be a good opportunity to revisit the “Jose Vidro Signs with the Red Sox” post (and compare the opposite trajectories their talents have taken this year).
celebrating 100 games of suckitude..
(and yes, Click to Edit is the bee’s knees..)
celebrating 100 games of suckitude..
Shame on you for not deducting days that King Felix has pitched.
Felix deserves better than this..
Yes, Felix deserves better, but the only games that you can really get excited to watch this year are the ones that he starts, so I can’t say that those are on the level of suckitude that the others have been.
Look on the bright side, Ward…at least we don’t have Rick White’s Gas Can to kick around this year!
Bedard had an MRI, still waiting on the results.
Brad Lefton talks to Shannon shortly, on the pregame
Sean McAdam talks knuckling with Wakerfiled & Dickey
Yes, Felix 2008 = Steve Carlton 1972…
Er, sort of (minus the personality “gaffes”, that is).
Yes, Felix does deserve a lot better. Who believes we can sign him?
apparently Lefton mentioned 5000 hits on the show yesterday. Shannon took him up on that, and he said that he could see Ichiro! playing until he was 51– matching his jersey– that Ichiro has always looked at what Julio Franco was doing out of the corner of his eye.
passions? race car driving, fashion, music, food — and what he has been doing the last few years on tv in Japan– the challenge of the interaction with the guest, the comeback, the quick answer, the right question
tomorrow, Brad on Ichiro’s influence in the clubhouse
True that, Scott.. and we’re Weaverless, too.. but somehow with all that flotsam, we still had a winning season last year.
I keep waiting to hear Rod Seling’s voice..
Who’s that reed feller in CF, never seen him…oh wait
No Shannon short-jokes!!! That was low!!! Err… dammit!!!
Yeah, Riggles finally puts the poor guy back in the lineup — and then it’s against Dice-K!
He’ll probably go 0-for-4 tonight…
Ichiro!–RF–L
J-Lo–2B–R
Rauuuul–LF–L
The Protector–DH–B
King Awesome–3B–R
Reed–CF–L
Clement–C–L
LaHair–1B–R
Yuni–SS–R
This post has been edited…because I can.
I wish my initials were RAD.
The following list is taken from the Rotoworld website…
July 6: Manager Jim Riggleman has pushed back Erik Bedard’s next scheduled start. Bedard apparently complained of shoulder tightness after his start Friday.
July 7: According to the Seattle Times, Erik Bedard could start Saturday or Sunday “depending on how his shoulder feels.”
July 8: Erik Bedard (back) won’t make another start until after the All-Star break.
July 10: Mariners placed LHP Erik Bedard on the 15-day disabled list with stiffness in his left shoulder.
July 14: According to the Seattle Post Intelligencer, Erik Bedard (shoulder) is “50-50″ to make his next scheduled start on July 22.
July 18: Erik Bedard (back) did not throw over the All-Star Break and has been shut down for the next few days. “He didn’t come out of the break feeling significantly better,” manager Jim Riggleman said.
July 19: The Seattle Times is reporting that Erik Bedard likely “won’t get on a mound until August.” Bedard didn’t throw over the All-Star break and won’t attempt to play catch until Monday.
July 22: Erik Bedard received an MRI for his left shoulder on Tuesday, but the results have yet to be revealed.
I guess it makes me wonder what the heck is going on here. You give up 5 players for a top-line starter, and it takes you more than two weeks to get to the point where you’ll get an MRI?
Welcome back Dave N!
Well, that didn’t take long.
god I hate the Red Sox
Hey, I think RTN has Night Gallery on about 12.30 in the morning these days…
Bummer they don’t have the Twilight Zone on yet, though — that was even better.
the rays haven’t been through wars, says blow
I do too. I really hate their whining about the Yankees outspending them when they outspend the other 28 teams in baseball.
I also hate the Bosox fans cheering their home runs in our park.
I was going to go in & change it when I realized the sentence construction could be misconstrued, but the editor was really slow for me, for some reason. I did refrain from pointing out in the other thread how happy Dave Ross would be to have Shannon on-staff, if KIRO hired her.
he sounds pretty perky tonight
By the way, isn’t this the best possible lineup for the Mariners right now – given their roster? No Vidro, Cairo or Bloomquist.
Edit: ooops there is Vidro in his #4 slot. Ye gods!
I wonder what Ozzie Guillen would say about Riggleman batting Vidro cleanup. He’s just about the only person that would actually tell the truth.
What wars would those be? Oh, I know, the Punic Wars! If Tampa holds off the Sox for the division crown, they get to march to Boston, burn down Fenway, and salt the earth on which it stood.
Raul’s trade value increases 0.3%
in Carthaginian formation?
Nice protection, Mr. Professional.
Emporer Vidro strikes out again…
That was about as surprising as the sun rising and setting each day.
Coincidentally enough, my family and I are about three weeks from leaving here to move approximately 60 miles from the Rays’ park in St. Petersburg..
Will be interesting to root for a well-run franchise, even if they play in a circus tent. I will still be here, so no fear.. nine years of living here, and still working here, I will be stuck with this team for a long time.
Hannibal crossing the New Jersey Turnpike with elephants.
Yeah, the two teams that spent the most money to buy a world series? The 2007 Red Sox ($143M) and the 2004 Red Sox ($127M). The last Yankees team to win a ring in 2000 spent just $93M (which of course is still more than any other WS-winning team since then not named the Red Sox).
35… Fort Myers?
38.. nope.. north of Tampa just of I75.. little town..
Today may not be Dickey’s day.
For those not listening on tv … Dave N (whom I love dearly) just referred to Jason Varitek as the Yankee captain … Blowers did call him on it. It’s getting close to the end for Dave (though I thought that for a long time concerning Ernie Harwell too, and he lasted into his 90’s).
An afternoon game? With the Sox in town?
Hey, Ward — at least you’ll never have to worry about standing in line for tickets at the Trop-Dome!
Weird injury.
fishiam- I was just hoping Dave would start talking about some crazy old story that has nothing to do with baseball to save us from this season for just a few minutes.
Well, he was only about 150 miles off…
Actually, Dickey should probably go back to consulting with Wakefield on pitching pointers rather than Batista.
Oh well.
FE: Niehaus. A couple years ago, i tried to find out Dave;s age, and I found that it was no where on the M’s site or anywhere handy. IIRC, they had ages for Rizzs and others but not Dave. I finally dug it up, and figured he was trying mightily to downplay it.
Then when he got the HOF call, they had his age in numerous articles. So I wonder if he got over worrying about it or what.
Surprisingly enough, Scott, that’s old news.. the Rays are drawing well this year. They’ve even sold out against the BoSox (any team that loathes the Beaneaters can’t be all bad).
Balls are still bouncing off of catwalks and guywires.. but that’s another story entirely.
One problem I have with Red Sox and Yankees fans all going to their road games and audibly and obnoxiously cheering is that it has spread to other teams’ fans who never did it before (like the Tigers). It’s like the year the Cubs got all that publicity for “Throw it Back” and suddenly everyone was doing it, and some poor kid who just caught a home run ball in the Kingdome was being pressured by beer-filled strangers to give up his prize. And of course, don’t try to do this at Fenway or Yankee if you value your life.
Comiskey is by 90 right? Is Jacobs?
What happened to Clement?
That is definitely a quirky park! I’ll never forget that ball that Bone hit off of Roberto Hernandez there some years back…it got caught up in one of those catwalks there somewhere and I don’t believe ever came back down. IIRC, he got a “ground-rule” (er, air-rule?) double out of it…though it was entertaining just to see Jay, RH, and everybody else standing around staring up at the rafters and laughing about it.
They need to define “adjacent.”
Well we should find out soon.
Unfortunately, many (if not most) of those tickets were probably bought by Bostonian retirees who have moved to Florida. Expect Bosox cheers there too.
Bryan! welcome to the big leagues!
Meet Mr. Lee, Mr. Lester and Mr. Matsuzaka.
W00T! I got it right. I might not know baseball but I know Interstates.
Eh? Both parks in Chicago are near I-90.
BTW, all four of those parks host AL teams.
UZR, my foot!
well, the Sox hadn’t had a captain since Jim Rice, I can understand the knee-jerk phrase ‘Yankee captain’…
Other than a C on his uniform, is there any significance to naming someone captain?
Boy, the Yuniesky Bobblehead Night looks like it will be a big draw.
(I guess adding his last name made it too long?)
Beltre is great at that play – going back and toward the stands.
Edit: When you make a second post while your previous post is still eligible for edit, you can edit both, but it looks like the first 5 minute period ends both edits.
59 – but 90 goes RIGHT by Comiskey.
I like to think of it as Arena Baseball.
I grew up in New York. You don’t have to tell me that there are Massholes everywhere.
Forget it.
Yes it is…as a matter of fact.
Funny you should mention that, too, Zzyzx…for the past several years now, I’ve actually thought of getting a movement together amongst Mariner fans to petition the City of Seattle to put a sign opposite the Safe on eastbound Edgar Martinez Drive showing the mileage from there to Comiskey/US Cellular (Chicago), Jacobs (Cleveland), and Fenway (Boston) — all parks along the length of I-90 coast-to-coast in which Edgar played during his career.
(P.S.: BTW, I’m not thinking of this as a frivolous endeavor, either…so if anyone else thinks this is a cool idea, let me know…thanks!)
Hey look! An acorn!
Cool idea.
holy crap, two pitches, 3 outs… yay.
LOL…I always referred to obnoxious Bosox fans as “chowderheads”, but this one’s even better…thanks!
The Seattle Mariners… Leading the league in first pitch ground outs.
It’s “chowdaheads.”
Masshole is a general term for people from Massachusetts.
RUN ON RAUL
Always happy to promote the calling of Massholes Massholes
there’s a scrappy little duo.
re: Captaining
The proper term of derision for a Red Sox fan is, I believe, Bucknerite
Another Raul approved play in left. Old Rickey Henderson gets to that ball no problem.
I smell 3 year extension on the horizon.
Just three years?
gosh, looking at the way Boston is handling the Ms, I find it hard to believe they had so much trouble with the Angels. Every one knows LAOAOOC is going to struggle this season, what with their pitching injuries, and all.
I’ll see that Buckner and raise you a Schiraldi!
Nah, they’re just laying really low until they kick their a$$ again in the post-season.
I see that Schiraldi and raise it a Grady Little.
That looks nothing like Betancourt…
First off, he should be flailing at an offspeed pitch low and outside…
Dave Sims: The ball went farther than the bat!!!
… Um, is this abnormal?
If Bush 43 ever called a ballgame, he would be Dave Sims.
FWIW, LaHair is from Worcester, MA, my hometown.
It is pronounced “Wooster” (non-native New Englander) or “Woostuh” (Native New Englander) with the “oo” pronounced like the “oo” in “look” or “book”, not like the “oo” in “hoot” or “boot.”
It wouldn’t be such a big deal if they didn’t mention LaHair’s home town every time he comes to the plate…
Eh, I’m sure it means very little to my friends in Warshington or my neighbours here in the Willa Met Valley.
I had a friend who got caught in the classic trap of looking for “Warchester”, Mass.. the natives sent him nigh onto Maine.
Hence, with apologies to IMFinksPa, Massholes..
Are we planning to score this series?
No offense taken,
But how did he like those apples?
Anyway, I still can’t find Cootch Street here in Portland. Another 13 years of looking, I guess.
You mean we can’t win on grit alone?
The Willa Met Valley of Ore-gone?
Man, another 4-0 game vs the Sox in which the M’s have a couple of inconsequential singles. Please, guys, just one run at some point?
Wonder if they steered him onto the freeway which has a traffic circle(!) on it (Rte. 128)?
That’s Or-y-gon
We have Ichiro! in scoring position… please get ‘em home Mr. DH!
(Just In: Mr. Vidro flies out. Another RISP wasted. Inside Ichiro’s mind: We’re worse than 2 rats F#!@^& in a wool sock!)
BTW, this edit function is better than a Arnold Palmer on a hot day here in Reno
Wow, FSN is now running promos for their generic white guy on-air “talent?”
Well, that’s 6+ innings, 105 P for Dickey…
Hope Bedard was watching.
Gas was cheap and he had lots of weed. He went with it.
Boston and environs are great examples of unplanned growth (in many cases, the literal paving of cowpaths). When I was last there (the Bicentennial, admittedly), one of the things that struck me was that I couldn’t find two streets that came together at a 90 degree angle.
It’s not as though they have a winning team to promote.
MLBTR
“The Red Sox inquired on J.J. Putz, but the Mariners say he’s not available.”
Don’t know why I’m posting it.
That’s like saying I’m from Winnamucha (Winnemucca) in Nevahduh. or Sighslaw (Siuslaw) in Oregon. You can definately tell a native from a non-native in Oregon, Washington or Nevada. We’re the only people that can say these darned names correctly.
And in other news: A Mariners pitcher went 6 1/3 today! It’s a red letter day!
IMFinksPa (89), I’m from that area, too. I tell people to say it like Worcestershire sauce, or WUSS-ter.
Suddenly, I feel like having a tonic.
No, no. (H)Asdrubal is with Cleveland.
It’s not for a total lack of love to “Beantown” itself, mind you…there are a few rather cool things there. It’s just that when you’re driving along at, let’s say, 60 MPH, then that’s probably not the absolute best place to slow everybody down and abruptly wring them through a traffic circle.
Both J.D. Drew and Mike Lowell have as many hits as the entire Mariner team.. blech.
Obviously, they can’t trade him. He does all of the bobblehead commercials. Duh.
That would be such a waste of perfectly good commercials.
I’ll take mine with Absolut Mandarin!
Home of the Or-goan-ee-ans. This all reminds me of Sims during one of his first few games with the M’s talking about a kid from Seck-whim. I don’t think anyone made him take his geoduck to Puyallup though.
I went for a drink from the bubbla, but it was filled with pollywogs, so I just threw some jimmy’s on my wawful cone and just sipped on some tonic…
Summer nights at the dairy, eating ice cream and listening to baseball on the radio while sitting on a 150 year old stone wall, overlooking the city on top of the big hill… what’s the Seattle equivalent to that idyllic childhood moment?
what’s the Seattle equivalent to that idyllic childhood moment?
RALLY FRIES!
Blowers keeps his kids in line, no question about it.
As my parents live in Sequim, I cracked up when I heard that.
I believe I have heard him attempt Puyallup before… I think it comes out “Puyayllup” from him.
I said WUSS-ter, Dave!
so, does Yuni just not want to be at bat? He sure gets away from the box ASAP.
Jesus, Crisp almost caught that.
Listening to baseball on the radio, while fishing for salmon as the sun sets under the Olympic Mountains, and the Seattle skyline lights up with a glowing-orange colored Mt. Rainier in the background.
I win.
Crying yourself to sleep, listening to M’s baseball on the radio.
I win.
First time in LA, I had to reassure the navigator that I was indeed looking for La Cienega Blvd when I called it Lah see enica
Yeah, but your listening to the Mariners:)
There’s no losers here. I think I’d take the crackling sound of the old radio on my father’s ‘64 T-Bird in any location over 118, but its the memories as much as the reality and more of my childhood memories include baseball than any other reference. Sox or Mariners, it doesn’t matter as much as it was my team and my family sharing those moments and that we can share similar sentiments.
So, I’ll lift a beer to all your fond memories of Jr, Edgar, Harold and the rest fighting the good fight while you did the same to land that prize Chinook if you’ll enjoy a home made blackberry waffle cone to mine.
Anyone else hear Red Sox fans chanting “lets go Red Sox,” and basically drowning out our fans?
Ah, it could always be worse…at least the tech in the sound booth isn’t under an official mandate to play Neil Diamond’s “Sweet Caroline” in the eighth inning…
Yet, that is.
Ah, blackberries. That may be the one thing uniting our childhood memories.
Still, you had to listen to the Sox, and at least the Mariners didn’t torture us, in those days, with the hopes of an entire region. They stunk, we knew it, but it was baseball, after all.
Still, I raise a glass to Yaz, The Spaceman, Pudge, Conigliaro, The Splinter, and all great Sox past. In the hopes, of course, that the M’s, eventually, can wake up and win one too.
well, there was just the one lone fella trying to get the ‘let’s go Mariners’ chant started, so he was easy to drown out
No one is talking about Jeff Riggleman’s record anymore.
Edited: Jim I meant! I love this feature!
Nor Jim Riggleman’s
This season keeps getting better.
For what it’s worth, according to Google maps (and using the satellite feature), there is nothing between US Cellular and the Dan Ryan expressway (I-90), while there is one street between Fenway and the Mass Pike and the Jake and I-90. It’s a bit more complicated with regard to the Safe, of course, depending on which of the various lines coming off I-90 you count, and whether you count the technical piece of 3rd Ave. So. behind the stadium.
Well, maybe they should. What, did we think he was going to come in and have this team pulling a 2007 Colorado Rockies kind of streak? When McLaren was axed, they were 25-47; they are now 38-64, two games further under .500 (24 games) than when Riggleman took over.
But they were a .347 team with McLaren and are a .380 team now. At the one month mark of his tenure, they were 13-13 but have lost these last two to the not-exactly-chopped-liver Red Sox to fall to 13-15 with Riggleman.
While missing Felix for a couple of stars and the only roster moves being the replacement of players with AAA prospects, the Mariners were a .500 team for the first month of the Riggleman era. Yes, yes, small sample size, but give the guy his due: he’s not the greatest manager around, but he’s good enough that for whatever reason the team is basically mediocre with him at the helm.
And
Along with Beltre’s BABIP regression and random fluctuation explain Riggleman’s success pretty well. See: Vidro, Cleanup. The Manager doesn’t make a huge difference to begin with. Riggleman continuing to bat Vidro cleanup tell me he is not making enough of a difference to improve the team by several wins in a short time. I see no reason to give him any credit for the recent “success.”
(I love this edit feature)
Edit: Also, I see no success, as not including the losses to Boston is like saying Batista wins a lot of games when he doesn’t lose.
I just wanted to add my 2 cents that this edit feature is the best thing since … Rally Fries!
Well, Fenway is just a block or so from the Mass. Turnpike (also I-90) but there’s no easy way to get to it from the Pike. The nearest exit’s another half mile east so you have to drive through some city streets to get to Fenway. But don’t park too close if you ever visit. There’s no such thing as jaywalking in Boston (see, the Sox fan is letting Manny off the hook again!) and pedestrians will block any movement within a hundred yards of the park if your car is that close.
I live in Boston, lived in Chicago, and went to the Jake last year for the ALCS. The Cell sits right on the freeway, only a feeder road in between the stadium and the interstate. The Jake also sits nestled right on the freeway, and is ridiculously easy to get into and out of. Fenway is another matter- like James T said, it looks like it’s just a block from the Pike, but in reality, you have to wind your way through several random city streets after exiting the Pike before you reach the Park.
But no one drives to Fenway, anyway. No one sane, that is.
that would explain why he looked like it really really really hurt.
While missing Felix for a couple of stars and the only roster moves being the replacement of players with AAA prospects, the Mariners were a .500 team for the first month of the Riggleman era. Yes, yes, small sample size, but give the guy his due: he’s not the greatest manager around, but he’s good enough that for whatever reason the team is basically mediocre with him at the helm.
And that’s a valid comparison because they played exactly the same teams under one manager as they did under the other. Oh, wait, they didn’t? And the sample size is really small? In other words, that comparison has exactly as much analytical value as the southward-moving methane from a northward-moving cow.
But no one drives to Fenway, anyway. No one sane, that is.
You have to be insane to drive in Boston, period. I think they require a test for that when they give you the license.
Very true. I don’t know if anyone’s seen the article up on the M’s site about their “Different Approach at DH” – It’s mindblowing. Seriously, they put an article on their own page attempting to justify Vidro in the middle of the lineup, and it reads like a damning testament to their own ineptitude.
And it has some insightful quotes from Riggleman:
Sounds like classic McLaren right there. “Numbers, analysis, and common sense be damned – I’ve got warm fuzzies!”
Nothing’s changed. And it’s not like it’s a surprise, or disappointing on Riggleman’s part – I really expected as much. But it’s sad that the entire organization is willing to go along with such insanity.
There are three types of managers:
1) Managers that are seriously excellent and substantially improve their team’s chances to win. This is the smallest group.
Tony LaRussa is the guy that seems to be most often mentioned as part of this group, but there are a few others.
2) Managers that seriously suck and are actively detrimental to their team’s chances to win. This group is slightly larger than #1, but still pretty small.
I’d put McLaren in that group despite him having a terrible team to work with; he could have gotten more wins if he hadn’t made some utterly inexplicable choices.
3) The very, very large pool of guys in the middle who just don’t matter, but sometimes APPEAR to matter depending on the talent available to them.
Bob Melvin is the poster boy for this; he’s a mediocre manager who has had really good talent to work with the last couple of years, so people are talking about him as if he suddenly got amazing after he left Seattle.
Riggleman is solidly in group #3, and McLaren was solidly in group #2, so yes we’ve made an (incremental) improvement; that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying to find someone who’d be part of group #1, and those guys are around in the minor leagues.
I’m still mad about Dan Rohn.
Well, if you’re a city resident, you have to be able to prove that you have a place to park a vehicle you’re purchasing before you can get it registered there — unless they’ve rescinded that law, that is.
I’m astonished to tell you the truth when I look up and I see Vidro’s average is what it is, because I feel like every time he goes up there I’m very confident that he’s going to give us a good at-bat
Wow, that’s just a classic quote. The numbers are reality, and he’s denying it, which in most other fields of work would be considered incompetence at best and mental illness at worst, with fraud sitting somewhere in between.
I never said Riggleman was a La Russa or even Piniella or Francona; only that because McLaren was so awful, simply having marginally competent management (the Vidro issue notwithstanding) has coincided with a brief run at ~.500 baseball.
There’s no need to be insulting, I acknowledged the small sample size, and will note that after his first 28 games, McLaren was also 13-15. But if- big if- the Mariners play ~.500 ball for the rest of the season, they’ll be a crappy 70-win team and not a horrific 60 win team.
And I’d completely agree that a new manager along with a new GM would be fantastic for the Mariners.