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	<title>Comments on: MLB Teams Are Learning</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293223</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293223</guid>
		<description>You basically just have to figure out the risks involved in that prospect developing and weigh that against the benefit that would be received if the player does develop.  

So, let&#039;s say there&#039;s a 20% chance that Carlos Triunfel turns into CARLOS TRIUNFEL, a .300/.350/.500 second baseman.  If you figure that having that guy under contract for six years at below market rates is worth (and I&#039;m making this figure up) $70 million compared to what he&#039;d cost on the free market, than Triunfel&#039;s value is 20% of $70 million, or $14 million.  

Now, this is obviously a ridiculously overstated example, because I&#039;m only presenting two possibilities (he&#039;s awesome or he has no value at all) and ignoring everything in between, while in actuality, there are many more shades of gray.  But the process is the same - you figure out what the aggregate value opportunity of a prospect is, then divide the risks, and you get a net present value.  

There&#039;s certainly a point where it could swing too far in favor of prospects.  We&#039;re not there, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You basically just have to figure out the risks involved in that prospect developing and weigh that against the benefit that would be received if the player does develop.  </p>
<p>So, let&#8217;s say there&#8217;s a 20% chance that Carlos Triunfel turns into CARLOS TRIUNFEL, a .300/.350/.500 second baseman.  If you figure that having that guy under contract for six years at below market rates is worth (and I&#8217;m making this figure up) $70 million compared to what he&#8217;d cost on the free market, than Triunfel&#8217;s value is 20% of $70 million, or $14 million.  </p>
<p>Now, this is obviously a ridiculously overstated example, because I&#8217;m only presenting two possibilities (he&#8217;s awesome or he has no value at all) and ignoring everything in between, while in actuality, there are many more shades of gray.  But the process is the same &#8211; you figure out what the aggregate value opportunity of a prospect is, then divide the risks, and you get a net present value.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s certainly a point where it could swing too far in favor of prospects.  We&#8217;re not there, though.</p>
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		<title>By: greenwood ave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293209</link>
		<dc:creator>greenwood ave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293209</guid>
		<description>57 (joser):

Thanks for the reply...it&#039;s a question I&#039;ve been wrestling with.  I disagree with your assertion though.  Whilst prospects and players with limited service time are definitely undervalued (at least by Bavasi and his ilk), I do think there comes a point when the value of trading for a guy like Teixeira does outweigh the costs in prospects.  Part of the equation is really hard to figure because for every Colon or Slocumb trade, there are many, many other trades of much hyped 21 year olds who really have a good chance of turning 30 rather than turning into even bench players.  And while this is obvious, what value can be placed on Triunfel or Balentien or Aumont, dollar wise?  

It seems to me that if the pendulum is swinging in the direction of favoring prospects, then there should be a point where prospects are in fact overvalued, almost by definition.  Where that point is or how to calculate it, I have no idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>57 (joser):</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply&#8230;it&#8217;s a question I&#8217;ve been wrestling with.  I disagree with your assertion though.  Whilst prospects and players with limited service time are definitely undervalued (at least by Bavasi and his ilk), I do think there comes a point when the value of trading for a guy like Teixeira does outweigh the costs in prospects.  Part of the equation is really hard to figure because for every Colon or Slocumb trade, there are many, many other trades of much hyped 21 year olds who really have a good chance of turning 30 rather than turning into even bench players.  And while this is obvious, what value can be placed on Triunfel or Balentien or Aumont, dollar wise?  </p>
<p>It seems to me that if the pendulum is swinging in the direction of favoring prospects, then there should be a point where prospects are in fact overvalued, almost by definition.  Where that point is or how to calculate it, I have no idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Goose</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293192</link>
		<dc:creator>Goose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293192</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say the Dbacks have done a decent job of building within despite selling most of the farm for Haren(who they are in talks with on an extension right now).

Out of the current 25 man roster 14 are home grown, and 10 of those are 26 or younger. They&#039;re also going to have at least 3, with possibly as many as 7, of the first 75 picks or so in the next draft. So I they could potentially rebuild the system rather quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say the Dbacks have done a decent job of building within despite selling most of the farm for Haren(who they are in talks with on an extension right now).</p>
<p>Out of the current 25 man roster 14 are home grown, and 10 of those are 26 or younger. They&#8217;re also going to have at least 3, with possibly as many as 7, of the first 75 picks or so in the next draft. So I they could potentially rebuild the system rather quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293137</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 02:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293137</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not that you should believe everything you hear from Rosenthal…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

nope. or, rather, yup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not that you should believe everything you hear from Rosenthal…</p></blockquote>
<p>nope. or, rather, yup.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293117</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293117</guid>
		<description>The Braves pick up three years of arbitration eligible Kotchman (a good, not great player who will no longer be cheap) in exchange for the best hitter on the market.  If you can&#039;t see how that&#039;s a huge step back from what teams were paying a year or two ago, I don&#039;t know what to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Braves pick up three years of arbitration eligible Kotchman (a good, not great player who will no longer be cheap) in exchange for the best hitter on the market.  If you can&#8217;t see how that&#8217;s a huge step back from what teams were paying a year or two ago, I don&#8217;t know what to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293113</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293113</guid>
		<description>Kenji being &quot;not available&quot; in trade makes sense in the same way that Kenji&#039;s extension does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenji being &#8220;not available&#8221; in trade makes sense in the same way that Kenji&#8217;s extension does.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293111</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 01:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293111</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;“Mark Teixeira on the block, and the collective response from MLB was to yawn.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and Olney points out on ESPN that the Angels weren&#039;t really looking to get into the Tex sweepstakes until the Braves price dropped dramatically when they realized not many teams were interested....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“Mark Teixeira on the block, and the collective response from MLB was to yawn.”</p></blockquote>
<p>and Olney points out on ESPN that the Angels weren&#8217;t really looking to get into the Tex sweepstakes until the Braves price dropped dramatically when they realized not many teams were interested&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: PADJ</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293055</link>
		<dc:creator>PADJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293055</guid>
		<description>Not that you should believe everything you hear from Rosenthal...

&lt;em&gt;Two teams that inquired about Mariners reliever J.J. Putz were told that he would not be traded. But others say that Putz indeed is available, along with every player on the M&#039;s roster except for right fielder Ichiro Suzuki, right-hander Felix Hernandez, catcher Kenji Johjima and reliever Brandon Morrow.&lt;/em&gt;

Granted that quote is pretty convoluted, but Kenji is &quot;not available&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that you should believe everything you hear from Rosenthal&#8230;</p>
<p><em>Two teams that inquired about Mariners reliever J.J. Putz were told that he would not be traded. But others say that Putz indeed is available, along with every player on the M&#8217;s roster except for right fielder Ichiro Suzuki, right-hander Felix Hernandez, catcher Kenji Johjima and reliever Brandon Morrow.</em></p>
<p>Granted that quote is pretty convoluted, but Kenji is &#8220;not available&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: spar123</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293040</link>
		<dc:creator>spar123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293040</guid>
		<description>yet another one called by these guys... no worries though - all us bloggers are, and the guys who take the time to run the sites, are just posters who voice their opinion only - we aren&#039;t much smarter at all than any other poster on any site at any given time - no matter what some may think of themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yet another one called by these guys&#8230; no worries though &#8211; all us bloggers are, and the guys who take the time to run the sites, are just posters who voice their opinion only &#8211; we aren&#8217;t much smarter at all than any other poster on any site at any given time &#8211; no matter what some may think of themselves.</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/07/29/mlb-teams-are-learning/comment-page-2/#comment-293039</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5624#comment-293039</guid>
		<description>I have to assume the Braves see something in Merek, and they have a pretty good track record at evaluating pitching (and maximizing what they have), because he&#039;s what is supposed to make up the difference in talent between Kotchman and Teixeira (or between Kotchman and two draft picks).

(And you should probably just ignore walkie83, just as you would any other troll with an agenda)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to assume the Braves see something in Merek, and they have a pretty good track record at evaluating pitching (and maximizing what they have), because he&#8217;s what is supposed to make up the difference in talent between Kotchman and Teixeira (or between Kotchman and two draft picks).</p>
<p>(And you should probably just ignore walkie83, just as you would any other troll with an agenda)</p>
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