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The Move Washburn Campaign
DMZ · July 30, 2008 at 8:48 am · Filed Under Mariners
We’ve only gotten one place to bite on the “Jarrod Washburn is awesome and has a new splitter and it’s great” story. Get out there and keep pushing, we need this guy moved in the next day!
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Imagine: You could be following this guy’s gutsy lead into the playoffs for the fair price of two majors-ready prospects! Do it for your country!
Now with Bloomquistian pinch running skills!
He can gnaw through an old-growth Douglas fir in record time!
And, the capacity to gnaw his way through an opponent’s bat with more than just his hard fastball.
haha, beat me to it, smb.
Big Lead displays an alarming inability to detect a send up in action.
Yeah, what do you expect from a site run by a former editor of US Weekly?
Or… too the Mets. this makes a whole lot of sense.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3510996&name=mlb_trade_deadline
Hmmm, that does make all kinds of sense.
Package Wash and Ibanez for, say, Dan Murphy (lefty power hitting 3B with a decent glove) and Robert Parnell? Neither guy really seems to fit into the Mets’ plans in the next few years, and both could get at least somewhat fast-tracked in our organization.
By the way, is anyone else’s antivirus programs flipping out at ESPN.com the last week or so? Two different programs on two different computers I use on a regular basis keep giving me warnings about malware on some of their pages… bad times.
I’m doing my part, codename lucasj.
Go Yankees
I’m doing my part, codename lucasj.
Go Yankees
What’s the fixation with saving money? Why dump Washburn just to get rid of his salary? The Ms need to get away from thinking that they are one free agent signing away from the playoffs. The Ms need solid prospects more than cash. Tell the Yanks to buzz off. Let Washburn finish the season well and deal him later, but by all means, get some value back. Otherwise, let him eat up innings. Plan for a return to respectability in 2011.
I mean, if Olney is going to spend paragraphs on why the Ms have to move Washburn, shouldn’t he at least back it up with just why Wash would be so valuable to the Yankees? c’mon, Buster, it’s the splitter!
and the magic belt.
Is the major malfunction to finally completing this trade that the M’s want a prospect that the Yankees don’t want to include? Would it make any difference if Lee went after a couple of decent prospects instead of Cabrera AND a prospect?
Ha! They must use a web sniffer that looks for headlines.
Special Agent lucasj: Your assignment — drop these flashy career numbers on them!
IP HA BB SO ERA
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1652.0 1656 504 983 4.10
cool. three hours of meandering, misinformation and Marylandisms as Jeff Nelson guest-hosts the mid-day show.
someone needs to call & ask him about Wash’s new splitter.
I think the M’s should not get too greedy with this potential trade; they need to move Washburn and his salary, first and foremost. If they can get even one moderately promising minor leaguer, the M’s need to pull the trigger.
I’ll miss Washburn a little if he leaves. I like how he battles out there, even when he is struggling. But overall he has been mediocre since he arrived.
Maybe the M’s can pull off a blockbuster deal and package him with Silva, Vidro, and Batista not for another player, but perhaps for a new suit and ATV for the Mariner Moose. That would be worth it too.
martini:
” I like how he battles out there, even when he is struggling.”
- You must love him, given how many opportunities he’s provided for you to watch that.
Dave did a pretty good job addressing this question.
He’s way over-paid and easily replaceable for cheap. The reality is they’re not going to get any more for him later than they would now. In fact, he’s been pitching well lately and teams are feeling (at least some) deadline pressure. If you keep him the rest of the year, you risk watching him regress, or even worse, get injured in some “gritty” performance. Then the team will waste at least another year trying to “rehab” him.
It’s simply an obvious move that’s best for the team’s future.
I hope that isn’t the mindset because they need a lot more than one free agent. I think the short answer to why you move Washburn “just to get rid of his salary” is that money is money. What they get in return for him isn’t going to be what puts them over the top. But if it frees up @ $10 million that can be used to sign other players, then that’s a net plus.
it’s one day from the deadline– should we really take anything out of Pelekoudas’ mouth as gospel?
Well, if oyu believe the rumors, the Rockies would be team #2…according to this Denver Post story.
I doubt that the non-waiver trading deadline matters a damn for a marginal pitcher who’s owed about $20M more on his contract. If the Yankees still want him, they’ll still be able to get him. I’d imagine Brian Cashman is just waiting out the Mariners to get them to lower the asking price from ludicrous (a starter and a prospect?!) to reasonable (a bag of balls).
I’m a little curious about the non-waiver deadline. My understanding is that if you put a guy on waivers and another team claims him, you can either revoke the waivers (once), award him to that team as-is, or arrange a trade with that team. Of course, the player(s) coming back must also have cleared waivers, although this only applies to players on the 40-man, right? (Or does it have something to do with service time…?)
Assuming no other team ahead of the Yankees places a waiver claim on Washburn, or he clears waivers entirely, you could still trade him for a random high-A prospect (not on the 40-man) in August, right? Taking that a little further, since the M’s are currently sporting the worst record in the A.L., they’d be at the top of the list for any players the Yankees placed on waivers, correct? So is it logistically possible that a Wash-for-Gardner-type deal could still happen after tomorrow’s deadline? Are you allowed to swap one waiver-claimed player for another?
What I’m getting at is that — if I understand the system correctly — having the worst record in your league essentially means you can acquire anybody in your own league* in August, just about exactly the way you would in July.
* waiver claims are awarded by record in your league, then by record in the opposite league, I think
That bite at thebiglead.com is hilarious!
Everyone would put a claim in for Gardner. Every single team in the bigs. Top prospects don’t clear waivers.
Tried to. Freight Train or whoever the producer on duty is (pretty sure it was FT) hung up on me when I told him what I wanted to ask about.
Apparently Wash is a touchy subject…?
of course, Nellie doesn’t throw the splitter, so maybe they were protecting him ….
“the short answer is, money is money.” True, if you want to continue the failed strategy of signing free agents to fix the team’s holes. How about a different tact? How about stockpiling as much young talent as possible and then letting the cream rise to the top in two or three years? Get a few prospects for Washburn, even if you have to keep him until the winter, or gasp! next season’s trade deadline…. pitchers are hard to find, that’s why they cost so much in money and talent (go review the Heathcliff Slocumb trade). Yep, there is risk Washburn will flame out or get hurt. Are you looking for a risk-free strategy?
This is my point: it wouldn’t matter how many teams claim him, because the Mariners would be at the top of the list on account of their league-worst record. Right?
I just put some glowing comment on a CBS sports page about Wahburn. The thing that was funny about that is not that some of the people their seemed to agree to what I was saying, but that there was a general consensus that the Mariners were a small market team that couldn’t afford to keep a player of Washburn’s cliber.
Hey at least that Mets link is giving Wash the praise he deserves:
Gritty and tough!
Okay, I attempted to fix that post but couldn’t figure out what the heck you were trying to do.
busplunger,
Yes, that’s correct (except in the first month of the season when the previous season’s record is used).
If a player is claimed the options are to rescind waivers and retain the player, arrange a trade with the team with the successful claim (this has to be done within two days of the successful claim and all eligible players in the trade must also have cleared waivers or been claimed by the parties to the trade), or simply allow the player to go to the claiming team who assume the full extent of the player’s contract, must place the player on their active roster and also pay a small waiver fee (currently $50,000).
Only players on the 40-man roster need to clear waivers to be traded.
Once a player has cleared waivers he can be traded without any strings (except that players coming back in the trade may nede to clear waivers) until the next waiver period (beginning 1st September).
They got that you guys were joking, right? I’d hate to think I’m a fan of a site that people think believes in Jarrod Washburn.
Thanks for the clarification Matt. I was about to go look all of that up. For some reason I had it in my mind that it was always the record from the previous season that was used. I didn’t realize that this was only the case for the first month of the season.
Fantastic answer, Matt the Dragon. Thanks.
I promise not to panic if they don’t trade Washburn by the non-waiver deadline. Sounds like just about any deal with New York-AL could still happen in August, assuming the Mariners maintain their last-place standing.
Nobody (here at least) is advocating free agent signings as the only answer to all the M’s problems. The long term answer to building a great team lies in young prospects. And as Dave recently pointed out, more and more teams are catching on to this.
But here’s the thing…the Mariners are not a small market team anymore! They HAVE money. Getting rid of an unnecessary payroll obligation gives them MORE money. And when you have all that money, you can afford to make smart FA signings. You can even afford to over-pay in certain areas when you’re getting a good value in others. Which enables you to rebuild a contender much faster than small market teams who have to wait on their talent to develop, and then lose them when they can’t afford them.
And here’s the other thing…you’re not going to get “a few prospects” for Washburn that are worth anything. I mean, if you’re savvy enough to nab one, that’s great. But it’s probably not going to happen. Not now, and most likely not later. The whole point is that the team taking Wash needs to agree to take on next year’s ridiculously inflated salary - and if they agree to that, they’re not going to also give you some great prospects.
Furthermore, there’s absolutely no reason to believe that keeping Washburn around longer increases his value.
Pitchers are not that hard to find. That’s why it makes sense to dump the dollars we are spending on Washburn, and replace him with Dickey, RRS, Morrow, Norm-Norm - anybody.
“Pitchers are not that hard to find.”
I see your point about smart FA signings AND hoarding prospects, but geez… pitchers are not that hard to find? Why did the M’s give up so much for Bedard? (OK, bad example…. ) But go back in time. Who did the Ms get for Mark Langston? Who did the Ms get for Randy Johnson?
So this is what one does for fun when your team is completely out of it. (I wish the Knicks had a board like this)
Give it up guys… there’s absolutely zero chance you get anything other than salary relief or a C prospect.
No wait, I take that back. You can have Carl Pavano.
Rasner is at least as good as Washy… Ponson figures to start two perhaps three times more before Hughes is ready. Wang’s got the boot off, hopefully he’ll be back in early September.
Cash has staked his rep on rebuilding from within. He’d bid high on someone he liked, but not for someone he only likes a little better than Ponson. Amusing, but get real.
This is not a board.
Washburn, Batista and Silva are not Langston, Johnson, and Bedard.
And the Hankees will still watch the postseason from their livingrooms, just like the Mariners.
Pitchers of Washburn’s calibre…
The qualifier makes a bit of a difference…
Ouch - yes, Bedard would be a horrific example.
In the post by Dave that I linked to, he makes a good case for the fact that teams have traditionally been over-paying in trades. They have over-paid for “veteran grit” or posturing sake, without any real evaluation of what the player they want is truely worth. So any reference to what was given up for a pitcher in the past doesn’t necessarily reflect the real value of the pitcher.
I may go to a movie theater and spend $20 on a bag of popcorn and a cup of ice with some soda in it…but that doesn’t mean that’s the true value of that meal. It just means I chose to purchase it in an environment that allowed the seller to get away with highway robbery.
I’m not saying that great pitchers like Felix, or even Bedard, are a dime a dozen…but there’s alot of guys in MLB or AAA that can fill the #4 or #5 slot effectively for next to nothing. I’d rather have Cha Sung Baek holding down Jarrod’s spot in the rotation, and some extra money for the future.
I looked up his VORP for pitchers on baseball prospectus’ site. Washburn is ranked 174 out of 591 ML pitchers. I know he’s not top shelf. However, Langston did not have much gas left in the tank when the Ms traded him. The Ms need to get something for im
Here’s hoping Phil picks up right where he left off…with his game in the toilet. Have fun watching the Rays or Sox in the series this fall!
Here’s my contribution. Please leave comments to give it some momentum.
Oh my that’s hilarious that the big lead took the article at face value! Great stuff.
Damon:
That is great!
Beauty.
Okay, how many of those posts on the Seattle Weekly comments column are legit? And how many are from game playing USSM-ers?
I did my part.
“only one base walk”?
Let’s try to make it credible, guys.
Is there anyway to contact the M’s GM?
Yes. Though, at times, you’d hope there wasn’t. /snark
fanfeedback AT mariners DOT mlb DOT com is the general, um, fan feedback contact. They don’t hand out specific numbers and email addresses to the general public for some reason.
56- thanks
Haven’t checked MLBPA’s website myself, but I know that if you dig around on the NFLPA’s website enough, you can find all kinds of lovely team contacts, including major FO staff for each team. I’d try poking around there.
It doesn’t seem like the Washburn deal absolutely has to be done before this deadline; if we want to dump his salary, we can just put him on waivers and New York (one or the other) will pick him up. We might as well see if we can get something out of him first.
And by we, I mean the Mariners. Sorry to the people who don’t like that convention, its a bad habit, I suppose, identifying with the team.