And… that’s it
The trade deadline has come and gone, and it looks like the only move the M’s made was the high quality Rhodes-for-Hernandez swap this morning. They didn’t budge on their ridiculous demands for Jarrod Washburn, so he’s still here, and no one was willing to offer a package that could compete with the draft picks they’ll get for letting Ibanez walk at years end.
Pelekoudas gets an A for the Rhodes trade – he did quite well. He gets an incomplete for the Washburn and Ibanez situations, as both are still somewhat unresolved. The Mariners need to keep trying to move Washburn, putting him on waivers tomorrow and lowering their demands, now that the Yankees called their bluff. If they can dump him before end of August, not dealing him today won’t matter. If they keep him for the rest of the season and risk getting stuck with him, he gets an F for not taking advantage of dumping Wash when he could.
Overall, we have to be happy with the Rhodes trade, fine with them not trading Ibanez in lieu of getting the picks instead, and rooting like crazy for them to dump Washburn in the next 30 days.
Jim’s right; Gammons has tons of connections, but I honestly think teams use him now to just float wild things out there and see what the reaction is.
He seems to not recognize himself that some of his sources are better than others, so it all gets presented as if it were gospel and makes him look bad when it doesn’t turn out to be true (which honestly is the majority of the time these days).
Peter Gammons is a bad journalist for two reasons:
1. He’s often wrong. (I remember 2-3 years ago when Gammons was morally certain Randy Johnson was going to be traded at the deadline — something that could be done only with Johnson’s consent. Not only was he wrong, but even The Big Unit stepped up and essentially said: “Who is Gammons and where is he getting this BS? He’s never spoken to me or my agent.â€
2. He works almost exclusively from anonymous sourcing. That only works if you’re credible, and you’re only credible if you get the facts right far more often than Gammons does.
Being “wrong” about trade rumors does not make someone a bad journalist. If that were the case, there would be no such thing as a good baseball journalist.
Gammons gets told a lot of information, probably as much as anyone else in the business. When he is told that something can or will happen, it is his job to report it. He does that and he does it very well.
His job isn’t to be “right”, it’s to pass along the information he gets from being in the upper echelon of sporting journalists. Hating on Gammons is stupid energy.
Are we seriously arguing about Gammons journalism? He is old and often senile, and he’s not a good journalist, most of the journalist working for ESPN are not good journalist.
Lets stay on topic if we can (not my job to moderate, but still)
Way to insert your Gammons opinion into the “come on guys, stay on topic” post.
Aside from occupying a rotation spot and not allowing one of the youngsters to get a longer look at it, it shouldn’t be so difficult to move him in the winter.
Not really, because you can sign as free agents or acquire players in trade lots of players comparable to Washburn.
Then again, His value may be at its peak right now…
… and that’s the thing.
I don’t see how Pelekoudas won’t be able to get the same return for him this winter.
If Pelekoudas is still the GM this winter… well, abandon hope. Let’s face it, he’s been part of the Mariner Insult Your Intelligence and Stay Stuck in Twentieth Century Baseball Thinking clique for his career as a Mariner, and I imagine he’s going to be NO check on the bad urges of Lincoln/Armstrong and the rest of the front office.
If Pelekoudas is the GM, I’d suspect Washburn stays on the roster, the roster housecleaning is generally postponed except for Bedard (who, unlike the other veterans, actually won’t hurt the team by playing injured), and the team makes some dumb FA acquisitions while making the usual bleating noises about competing…
Hello Mark Teixiera!
and Baker expands on the talks with the Jays
When he is told that something can or will happen, it is his job to report it.
No it’s not, at least not if he considers himself a journalist. Journalists get told all sorts of shit by all sorts of people with all sorts of agendas, much of which isn’t true. A journalist’s job is to consider the source, check the facts, get a confirmation from a second source, and generally do everything in his/her power to avoid getting spun. Journalists who do their jobs only publish things they can verify.
Of course you could say that Gammon’s job is to publish every bit of random crap he hears. Which is fine, but then let’s call him “Peter Gammons, professional source of random crap.” And ask ourselves why anyone pays him any attention.
He could be the worst journalist on Earth but it doesn’t make a true statement false. The 2008 M’s are losers.
Let me clarify.
joser, you’re totally right that if a journalist reports everything he hears, he’s not being responsible. As a Journalism major, believe me, I know — we got killed in class if we couldn’t verify sources. That’s not my point.
My point is that Gammons has established himself as reputable baseball journalist, regardless of how we think of him personally. As such, I have faith in the process he goes through to get his information.
ESPN is the mecca of sports journalism careers right now and they aren’t going to employ, much less focus on, journalists who aren’t reputable and don’t have good sources. Maybe I just have a little more faith in the system than the people that hate on Gammons.
I just don’t get the point of bashing him.
Don’t confuse journalists with sportswriters.
Also, Gammons hasn’t been the same since his stroke.
Baker’s comments on how Toronto operates ring true to me. Toronto has the largest media market of any team in baseball, being basically all of Canada, and the press works differently there than here. If perception still matters more than reality to the Blue Jays, that’s fine, though what a waste of J.P. Ricciardi’s talent to operate that way.
As a Yankee fan, I’m so glad that Washburn was NOT traded to the Yankees.
Seattle is dealing from a position of great weakness but acted otherwise. They’re on track to be the 1st team to loss 100 games with a $100 million plus payroll.
But, you already know this.
The Mariners have already had to suck it up & eat the rest of Sexson’s ludicrous contract. What happens now that they have stubbornly decided to hang on to Washburn? What happens if he gets seriously injured? What happens to his value then?
Like that never happens to a pitcher…
That’ll be another $14 million that won’t be available for the Mariner farm system, scouting, & player development.
$14 million is about how much my Yankees spent this year in signing drafted players from the 2008 amateur draft, international free agents, & bonuses paid to over-slotted premium talent.
As for playing a game of chicken with the Yankees, the Mariners seriously miscalculated & Yankees GM Brian Cashman did not flinch on Seattle’s crazy demands. Read the following article from below from last year & find out why…
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2007/03/27/cashman-were-not-going-to-be-anybodys-sugar-daddy-anymore/
The Yankees realized a long time ago that no one is going to help them. In turn, they have made it abundantly clear that they will no longer be the white knight riding in to relieve other teams of their bad contracts & expensive mistakes. Mistakes such as Seattle’s.
The Yankees will no longer be ANYONE’S Sugar-Daddy.
The 2008 Mariners… 100 losses for +100 million.
Amen.
I don’t read Gammons, so I can’t speak to his competence.
I would wager that however low Gammons’ competence level may be, the Mariners’ is lower.
great gonzalez, they’ve been losers all year. THAT’S not news. It’s the implication that just because the Mariners chose to not do business with with the Mighty AL East, they’re even worse losers. Gammons isn’t exactly a paragon of neutrality/objectivity.
Yeah, I was just taking the opportunity to be snarky. 🙂
[no]
Gammons didn’t need anonymous sources (or credited sources) to know that the Rangers and A’s have picked up a ton of talent in the last year. Texas has picked up Josh Hamilton, who looks to be a perennial All-Star, Max Ramirez, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Chris Davis, etc. Oakland has picked up that bundle of talent for Harden and Blanton (plus others).
What have the Mariners done of late? They made a good deal for Rhodes and got a potentially good arm, but what of the lost opportunities for draft picks (not offering Jose Guillen arbitration when they knew he wouldn’t accept) and giving up draft picks for signing Ibanez before the arbitration deadline (even though the Royals made it clear they wouldn’t offer him arbitration) and for signing Greg F Colbrunn – the D=Backs picked Conor Jackson with that draft pick…
Gammons was just saying something that should be clear to anyone who’s followed this site for a decent length – not only are the Mariners misguided, but all three teams in their division are better equipped for the future, not just with young talent, but with competent, forward thinking management.
[no, and you’re lucky I’m not deleting your entire post; personal attacks aren’t going to be tolerated]
The Guillen thing didn’t even need forward thinking; it was straight out being efficient. The Ms flunked at that.
I’m just hoping we get better at that, and HowChuck, those asshats, stop interfering with basic GM decisions.
I can’t find the Gammons article in question, so I can’t figure out where the Al East implication comes from, but the Mariners aren’t in the AL east, so what should that have to do with anything?
If the rumored trades had been with AL Central teams, would that make everything ok?
How does any of that make what Gammons said not true?
@ #46 GoFelix
You realize that there was absolutely NOTHING they were going to do at this trade deadline was going to improve the team for this season, right?. Every trade they had considered was about trading existing major league players for either nothing (salary dumps), or prospects for the future.
If we had given up Ibanez, and/or Beltre, and/or/even Washburn, it wouldn’t have made watching this years team any more entertaining (at least from a win/loss persepctive).
The Angels are the best team in the division and still have guys like Brandon Wood, Nick Adenhart, Hank Conger, and Kendry Morales in the minors.
The A’s have pitchers Trevor Cahill, Brett Anderson, Henry Rodriguez, Vin Mazzaro, Gio Gonzalez and James Simmons with hitters Adrian Cardenas and Chris Carter close to the majors.
The Rangers have their young talent already in the majors along with elite guys Taylor Teagarden, Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz, Ian Gac, and Engel Beltre a few years away.
The M’s have maybe Greg Halman, Michael Saunders and lesser guys like Juam Ramirez, Adam Moore, and Rich Dorman close to the majors. Impact players like Triunfel and Aumont, and whoever we get in the draft are far, far away.
I’ll agree with Gammons on his bleak 4-5 years for the M’s. And it could be a bleak 4-indefinite if a poor GM is hired.
On the bright side, the M’s have the resources to turn this team around quickly if organization philosophy changes and the right minds are brought in. Those are a couple huge “ifs” right there.
How could you know that? Maybe they pick up a hitter adequate enough to force them to give Vidro the boot? Or a good-glove left fielder that does the same thing, moving Raul to DH?
Regardless, as a long term fan I am far more entertained by watching a bad team that is playing the future than I am watching a bad team that is playing the past.
I certainly don’t care if they win again this year. If I had to choose, I’d prefer they didn’t.
I’d drive down to Anaheim to see them play the young guys/new guys… but I’m not paying to see Vidro/Bloomquist/etc.
That would be Willie “with the best OBP on the team” Bloomqust, right?
Absolutely, Bremerton “stats guru” guy.
Nice comeback.
What? No. Cut it out.
Since we’re talking trades (and Bloomquist) here, Bloomquist has indicated his intention to test the free market waters himself at the end of this year, believing his skill set is better suited to the National League and because he feels he hasn’t gotten a fair shake at a starting job with the Mariners. Does he have any trade value to an NL contender that may be looking for a Mark McLemore kind of player for the stretch run? Would any team claim him on waivers if the M’s try to trade him now? I don’t expect that he would net much of a return, but isn’t any return greater than if he signs as a free agent at the end of the season somewhere else? And if the theory is you’re supposed to sell high, I can’t imagine it gets any higher for Bloomquist than right now.
Hm… anyone know enough about the free agent rankings to guess whether Bloomquist would classify as a Type B? I think a middling pick that might work out is better than a middling pick that hasn’t worked out, which is what I’d imagine the M’s would get in trade for Bloomquist.
I’m pretty convinced that past Mariner idiocy caused every potential trade partner to low-ball the Mariners on their trade offers.
I mean, c’mon, this is still the same front office who made the Bedard trade, signed Richie Sexson, etc. etc. Until we have a new GM nobody is going to offer us value for value.
Pelekoudas was lucky to get Hernandez from the Marlins. Even if we had shipped off Washburn and Ibanez for some prospects, I wouldn’t be satisfied. That kind of relief will only come when a new GM shows me something in the way of logical long term organizational thinking.
it could be– but it has little to do with today’s deals or non-deals.
Stark about the M’s on ESPN.com here. Scroll to the bottom. Not too kind words.
I agree with Stark. This was somewhat of a lost opportunity, although we will certainly see players moved in the coming months (probably after the season).
I hope they get a real GM in there asap (someone from the outside) to initiate the rebuilding process. Lee doesn’t appear to have the skills or experience to do the job.
I don’t agree with Stark at all really. Ibanez had a high cost because we expect to get two draft picks for him by letting him walk. As for Washburn if the only thing we want to do is cut his salary off the book for next season the team has an entire month to still trade him.
Beltre is undervalued and I don’t know what other conversations were in place but we didn’t hear anything about anyone wanting the other players on the team. The reality is the majority of our dead weight is nothing anybody wants.
I’m curious what the NY fans are going to think about the lack of a Washburn deal if they get swept by the Angels…
Yeah, all this doom and gloom is uncalled for. We were not the losers of the deadline. That would be the dodgers. But on top of that, Washburn will still be moved. And, hopefully we get two draft picks for Ibanez. The only bad thing is, this doesn’t open up a spot for Wlad unless they plan on DH Raul some.
#24 Bratman. Ha ha ha ha!!! Thanks for the link, that really put a smile on my face! As for Washburn, I’ve read some posts on here about ‘sunken costs’, is $10 million next year too much for what he gives? With the state of pitching in the majors the last few years and contracts for some of these pitchers, I’m thinking no… but if somebody explains why I’m wrong I’d be happy to hear it, I’d rather get educated than assume anything.