06 Aug
Game 114, Twins at Mariners
Blackburn v Washburn. Early start.
Jarrod’s still here? Dammit.
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J. Reed dh
R. Ibanez lf
C’mon - how on earth does that make any sense?
August 6th, 2008 at 12:45 pmFYI: Morrow’s first “start” in Tacoma: 1.2 IP, 34 pitches, 21 strikes, 1 hit allowed (double to Dallas McPherson), 3 Groundouts (1 each to 2B, SS and 1B), 1 flyout (to 1B), 1 K and a 0.00 ERA.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:50 pmIt makes sense if you’re the 2008 Seattle Mariners, as to elsewhere else it makes sense, the only other places I can think of are the Strasburg race contendees.
Anyway, our lineup is as follows:
Ichiro! - LF
August 6th, 2008 at 12:52 pmReed - DH
Ibanez - LF
Beltre - 3B
Lopez - 2B
Clement - C
Balenetin - CF
LaHair - 1B
Betancourt - SS
They just finally made some smart moves yesterday…baby steps…
But either Raul has told them he won’t DH or they are just flat out stupid and think he can defend well…
With Chamberlain’s injury in NY, hopefully they will give in and give up a prospect for The Bus…
August 6th, 2008 at 12:52 pm1-It makes sense to Riggleman
August 6th, 2008 at 12:52 pmSure, but Reed’s not exactly the greatest hitter. He really doesn’t have a whole lot of value if he’s not in the field. They’ve got 4 outfielders in the lineup - they’ve decided to take the 2nd best defender and make him the DH, while starting two players in the field who are pretty clearly worse at defense than him.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:57 pmBalentien in center should be an adventure. They could at least swap him and Reed.
August 6th, 2008 at 12:59 pmI suspect the thinking goes like this:
Raul is about as locked in as anyone on this team has been post-2001, so don’t upset anything just yet.
We should find out if Balentien can actually play centerfield.
I don’t really mind either of those ideas short term. Eventually, Raul will come down to earth. They will quickly learn that Balentien is not a centerfielder. If in April Raul is the starting leftfielder with a three-year $48 million deal (”he carried us in August as we made our run past the Padres and Nationals”), and Balentien is fighting Willie B. for playing time against lefties in center, then we’ll have real problems.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:02 pmWe all know what they SHOULD do…but we rarely get to see it happen…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pmDon’t we already know the answer to that, though?
August 6th, 2008 at 1:04 pmThe Raul thing doesn’t seem that weird to me anymore - they think he’s good and that’s the end of it.
Reed on the other hand, they pretty clearly know he’s an asset on the field and pretty meh with the bat. So they decide to DH him. Uhh, ok seems reasonable to me.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:05 pmThe M’s front office has some fixation on hamstringing itself nonstop.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:12 pmHow great is it to get some of these sad sacks out of the lineup. Even if we don’t see better results (Strasberg!), at least we’re not banging our heads against the wall anymore. Now let’s sit back, watch the yank’s meltdown, and continue to GET THESE CHUMPS OFF THE ROSTER!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:12 pmHey, at least Riggleman is sitting Vidro toda…
Oh wait! That’s right! Woo-hoo!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:12 pmI know you can’t exactly ’showcase’ players in MLB but for crissakes, if they’re trying to move Washburn can they at least give him something to work with? A statue in left and a 3 ring circus in center isn’t probably going to highlight Washburn’s talents after all.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:24 pmSeriously… today’s lineup is such a let-down after a great day yesterday.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:37 pmThat would be nice…though something tells me that if they’ve got the chance to pick up Livan Hernandez off of waivers for nothing (or next to), they’ll probably jump at that first.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:41 pm#15 But that’s the point. You let Washburn fail again so that he will pass through waivers. Then you hope he succeeds and trade him. Unfortunately the Yanks are too smart for that.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pmQuestion about last night’s game, if you don’t mind… I was there and didn’t hear or read any commentary on this.
What was up with them racing Burke in to catch JJ in the 9th? Clement’s hand acting up? (He’s in the line-up today, so I doubt that) …or is it the “JJ is going to pitch better to his personal catcher” kind of thing?
It worked, I’m not unhappy… Just curious if anyone else caught any whiff of what that was about.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:44 pmNo, no, no - if he’s claimed on waivers, then you just wash your hands of him. Having him suck doesn’t do you any good at all. The best possible case is that he’s claimed on waivers - the claiming team would then be responsible for 100% of his salary.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:45 pmOh boy, Balentien…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:49 pmthen you just wash your hands of him
Or, “Wash” your hands of him!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:49 pmWLAD already looks terrified out there…yeesh…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:49 pmIs it too early to start drinking? I think not…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:50 pmWow…I think he answered the “how does he look in center” question…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:50 pmThe Bus can pack his bags if he keeps this up…later!!!!!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:51 pmQuick! Trade Washburn while his value is high!
August 6th, 2008 at 1:51 pmWho is this strikeout machine named Washburn that is pitching? Surely the Yankees could use him to replace their other strikeout machine with the injured arm.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:52 pmI think The Bus is a prick, but I hope he throws a one-hitter complete game…the Yanks would pick him up, pay his salary, RRS would take his spot, and hopefully, the Yanks would give us a player or two…
This is the first time I’ve rooted for The Bus in a LOOOONG time…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pmim stuck listening to this one…. what did Balentien do in center that drew all these responses?
August 6th, 2008 at 1:56 pmOn Raul still in LF: Is it possible that DH-ing him the rest of the way would affect his ability to be a Type A free agent?
August 6th, 2008 at 1:58 pm30: He basically went into the fetal position when a ball got hit to him.
August 6th, 2008 at 1:58 pm31-
i doubt it…it will be based on his numbers, i believe…
August 6th, 2008 at 1:59 pmRizzs just used the word “consistent” twice in the same sentence. Did Joe Morgan invade the radio booth?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:01 pmI’ve got a drink in one hand, a broom at the ready in the other. Washburn, make my day, and pitch your heart out. You so desperately need to be a Yankee.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:02 pmSo, here’s a question for the peanut gallery:
Jose Lopez is not an offensive contributor, with a better-than-average OPS+ (107 today.) Looking at his batted-ball distribution totals on Fangraphs, and his walk and strikeout rates, I think this is real improvement and not a fluke.
So, do Lopez’s improvements with the bat overshadow his defensive problems and make him a contributor?
Or, do you move him to third? He’s got enough arm, and that’ll help with the infield defense. That means moving Beltre to first, which will also upgrade the Mariners’ defense.
Maybe not next year, but the year after when Triunfel becomes available?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:03 pmHa, good one. It wasn’t quite that bad, abender - there was a base hit up the middle and he looked pretty awkward just cutting it off and throwing it back in. He kind of approached it weird, like he was afraid to get in front of it, and not sure what to do. Then he took a back-handed stab at it, missed it, and had to turn around to pick it up and throw it in. Ok, I guess killerewok’s description was pretty accurate.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:07 pmAh, the Washburn we all know is in the house…mutherfucker…
August 6th, 2008 at 2:10 pmOh come on. That’s just silly.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:12 pmHumming to the tune, The Wheels on the Bus go Round and Round…
The wheels on the bus fall off and off, off and off, off and off…
August 6th, 2008 at 2:14 pmThat’s what you call poetic justice.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:15 pmLet’s hope the Yankees only watched the first inning.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:15 pmThhhhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee wheels on the bus were never on. Never on. Never on. The wheels on the bus were never on. We never should have signed him.
2nd verse, same as the first!
August 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pmQuick! Get Baek warmed up!
August 6th, 2008 at 2:16 pmRalph_Malph@39: Moving Beltre to first upgrades the M’s defense over what you’ve had at first. Beltre’s got good reactions and range, and he’d be a serious upgrade over anyone else you could put at the position.
The question is whether the downgrade at third (and Lopez -> Beltre is probably a downgrade) is worth it, depending on the second sacker you get.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:18 pmYou don’t take a superb defender like Beltre and put him at the most defensively unimportant postion. That’s just a very bad use of resources…
It’s much easier and wiser to find a cheap LH hitter who can handle righties and hold down first.
And yes, I believe Lopez would be a significant downgrade at third. It just doesn’t make any sense.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pmThank you…I was about to ask, “What wheels?”
August 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pmOn the move Lopez to third (where his sucky defense will be less of an issue) and move Beltre to first (where his ace defence will be an upgrade):
I’m with Ralph - that’s just silly.
Say it out loud to yourself one more time, Robbbbbb - it makes no sense.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pmOur win expectancy today is already down to 14%. Thank you, Fangraphs, for further contributing to my alcoholism.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pmThe wheels on the bus must be those recalled Firestones. The tread seperated and the bus rolled over. Do we have anyone up in the ‘pen yet? Our offense isn’t going to be able to right the bus this time around.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:25 pm45: But 1B isn’t nearly as important of a position as 3B is. So, Jose’s value stays about the same defensively (since 3B and 2B are so close on the defensive spectrum), but Beltre’s drops dramatically.
So, basically… Lopez is below average.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:26 pmThe fetus unwound. Nice catch in center. And another K for Washburn.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:26 pmBalentien with the grab, not too shabby.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:26 pmPutting Beltre at first is a waste of his talents. You don’t downgrade at one position in order to shore up another. Beltre is a terrific 3rd base defender. In no way will taking him away from there improve our overall defense.
Why do you think there are more great defenders in baseball at 3rd base than at 1st? Teams don’t take bad outfielders and train them to play 3rd, they train them to play 1st. It’s an easily adaptable position and sticking Beltre over there would be almost as bad as batting Vidro clean-up. And NO ONE would ever do that.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:26 pmKarstens is having an interesting game in Arizona. And not because he’s 2-3 against Randy Johnson.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pmOh f**k
This means we’ll be stuck with Jarrod for another season.
I feel like Father Jack (in Father Ted) when he accidentally got sober and realized he was still living on Craggy Island with Ted and Dougal.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pm“Don’t tell me I’m still on that feckin’ island!”
THIS TEAM MAKES NO SENSE. Why are we driving the bus when there’s water in the diesel and it has 4 recalled tires?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:27 pmThough if the Twins bullpen continues to turn in the kind of quality performances they have the past couple of games, that may increase.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:30 pmThat “bus” is all of a sudden looking a lot like the one Clint Eastwood was driving in The Gauntlet (i.e. all shot full of holes).
August 6th, 2008 at 2:31 pmLopez is a funny case. I love Beltre’s glove at third, so I’m not crazy about moving Jose over there. However, he has been hitting rather well the past couple months.
It seems like he has a plus bat at 2B, but as soon as you start moving him elsewhere, his bat goes from being an asset to a space filler. I’d really like to see him sustain his current improvement.
Ideally, he’d shore up his defense, draw more walks, and play with a little more focus, and we’d have a middle infield slot nailed down.
It’s easy to forget that Lopez is younger than Clement. He still has time and room to grow, and I’d love to see the guy become a cornerstone on this team. He’s a question mark, but given where the M’s are that’s a big upgrade over other areas of the roster.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:35 pmDid I hear Dave right? When Yuni grounded out to short, he said something like, “Well, you didn’t expect him to walk, did you?”
August 6th, 2008 at 2:35 pmIbanez with yet another hit against the Twinkies. Now let’s keep it going. Go Beltre. By the way, are we the only team in the AL who can’t seem to find a left fielder? Bring back Randy Winn.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:37 pmThink maybe that the Yuniesky Betancourt Bobblehead could be used for voodoo?
We’d just need some DNA…
August 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pmProps to colm for the Father Ted reference.
I’ve often wondered if Dougal, somehow, was the one in the M’s front office who approved the Bedard trade.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:38 pm49. fangraphs doesn’t take into acount which teams and players are playing, so you might want to bump that 14% down a hair. But then again, it doesn’t take the twins bullpen into account either.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:39 pmIf someone hit against the Mariners the way that Raul is hitting against the Twins, we’d bid against ourselves (and only ourselves) in order to overpay to sign whoever that was to a long term contract…
August 6th, 2008 at 2:40 pmHow about Beltre at 2B and Lopez at 3B?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:42 pmI’m surprised the Twinkies didn’t try to get LaTroy Hawkins back. Sure, he’s pretty washed up these days…but judging from the first two games in this series, he might be able to help them out.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:42 pmNothing feels better than seeing the team finally scratch out a run, only to have our pitcher immediately give up an extra base hit on the first pitch.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:43 pmThat was nice…
August 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pmGreat defensive play by a fine pitcher. What’s not to love, Yankees?
August 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pmThe Bus made a nice play there. He has the agility of a short bus.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:47 pmWow…Wash with further proof that it’s possible to make both the Bloopers and Gems reels on the same play!
August 6th, 2008 at 2:48 pmBalentien is doing well at center. Wash keep it up you’ve got 5 strikeouts so far and no reason you can’t go another couple of innings to sell yourself and your contract.
August 6th, 2008 at 2:58 pmWho’s that at DH? Nice piece of hitting. Do you suppose Vidro’s watching the game from the buffet, trying to figure out why he’s finally not out there? Come on Beltre, don’t let Ibanez have all the fun.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:09 pmOf course it’s baseless and illogical, but I love Jeremy Reed
August 6th, 2008 at 3:10 pmOh dear, Dave Niehaus just forgot how many outs there were and thought that the Beltre groundout was the end of the inning. He then wrapped up the inning saying the Mariners got one run back and was ready to send it to commercial as usual, but Rick had to take over and remind him there were only two outs.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:15 pm77: Hey, that could be the wave of the future — accelerated two-out-per-inning games! Sorta like the late-starting second game in a slow-pitch rec league doubleheader where you start your at-bat with a 1-1 count just so they can get the game in before they turn the lights off…
August 6th, 2008 at 3:23 pmOn the GameCast, it looks like Wash is getting squeezed. True?
August 6th, 2008 at 3:24 pmWhy not Lopez at DH? We certainly have no other obvious candidates.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pmI haven’t seen anyone kick dirt when striking out since the LLWS.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:30 pmWe don’t really have any other candidates for 2B either, unless you want to see Boom Boom playing everyday.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:35 pmWashburn’s outing is actually going to look OK in the newspapers.
ERA for the game: 4.50
WHIP for the game: 1.25
Strikeouts: 6
Quality Start: Check
Hopefully no one looks beneath the surface of these otherwise decent numbers.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:37 pmRiggleman should grow a set and flat out tell Raul that he’s going to DH the rest of the year while they try out the kids in the outfield…
August 6th, 2008 at 3:38 pmIf worse comes to worse, they could always drag Julio Cruz out of the broadcast booth and put him at second.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:42 pmDesignated Hitters, First Basemen and Outfielders are all grouped together as one category for the purposes of determining type “A” free agents.
There is no actual defensive component to the numbers per se simply that players are grouped according to - supposedly - like positions so that the comparisons are - in theory - apples to apples.
(Somehow nobody thought to point out to them the idiocy of comparing a centerfielder hitting to a DH.)
August 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pmIs Dennys Reyes even larger than Carlos Silva?
August 6th, 2008 at 3:48 pmWow, that was an awesome catch.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:57 pmWillie is now our DH. I’d be looking at that igloo in hell.
August 6th, 2008 at 3:57 pmdang it, I missed Denys “Sampler Platter” Reyes?
August 6th, 2008 at 3:58 pmThe Sampler happens to be one of my favorite dishes at Denny’s.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:00 pmcatching up my game notes, this is going to be confusing. we now have three pitchers, initials JW.
wonder if they’d mind if I called them Bruce.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:01 pmPut your brooms away…
August 6th, 2008 at 4:03 pmI think the fat lady is getting her chords warmed up. So, I’m putting down the broom and picking up the bottle.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:06 pmWill someone please tell him that it can’t be a sacrifice or a fielder’s choice if nobody ends up being out?
August 6th, 2008 at 4:06 pmnow this looks more like it.
good call on Father Ted!
My lovely horse, running through the field,
Where are you going with your fetlocks blowing in the wind?
I want to shower you with sugarlumps,
And ride you over fences,
Polish your hooves every single day,
And bring you to the horse dentist.
My lovely horse,
August 6th, 2008 at 4:10 pmYou’re a pony no more,
Running around with a man
on your back,
Like a train in the night (yeah)
Like a train in the night
it was Little Nicky Punto that inspired the ‘Pirhanas’ nickname from Ozzie, wasn’t it?
August 6th, 2008 at 4:13 pmJeff,
It can be a fielder’s choice even if nobody ends up out.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:13 pmWash may be a lot of things, but whenever I see him at a game I say something and he acknowledges it. He even said excuse me when a ball came toward us and he had to pick it up.
Sure, he threw Kenji under the bus but he’s not that bad a guy with the fans. I even saw him carry on a conversation with an older lady one day while warming up. In spring, I always see him signing for fans. I am torn on this perception that he’s a prick.
He’s just got an unrealistic view of his real talent, that’s all.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:16 pmDave Sims says “tough spot” as often as George Clooney did in “O! Brother Where Art Thou”.
Wonder what kind of pomade Sims uses… I’m thinking he’s neither a Fop nor a Dapper Dan man.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:17 pmDoes anyone know much on Wells? What does he throw besides the Four-Seam and the Slider?
August 6th, 2008 at 4:19 pmjeff Nye,
recording an out is not required for getting a sacrifice hit.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:26 pmYou could have any numbers of errors on the play or a Fielder’s Choice
without recording an out and still get credited for a Sacrifice Hit.
Yuni, Yuni, Yuni….
August 6th, 2008 at 4:33 pmI hate Yuni…and he was one of my favorites two years ago…TAKE A FUCKING PITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 6th, 2008 at 4:34 pmI believe the expression in the movie was “tight spot”…
“Damn! We’re in a tight spot!”
But good call, nonetheless.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:34 pmHuh, really? That’s pretty counterintuitive, but okay.
It seems to me that a sacrifice or fielder’s choice inherently involves someone ending up out, otherwise you may as well just call it an infield hit.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:44 pmWhen you’re right, you’re right JerBear…it WAS “tight spot”.
Almost got loved up, though.
August 6th, 2008 at 4:57 pmThe A’s-Jays game in Toronto right now might warrant your attention in a few innings. Marcum on the mound.
August 6th, 2008 at 5:04 pmAnd turned into a horny toad…
August 6th, 2008 at 5:08 pmQuestion: When will RRS be called up? I thought I heard that he would be taking Batista’s spot in the rotation, but MLB.com still has him listed as the starter for Saturday. Reason being, I have tickets Saturday and I really don’t want to watch Batista v Garza…
August 6th, 2008 at 5:56 pmWhere was it that had the pitches taken, pitches swung at data? It sure seems like Yuni has an historically low percentage of pitches taken. Although today he was almost level — 2 balls, 1 called strike, and 1 HBP versus 2 fouls and three balls in play (outs).
August 6th, 2008 at 6:23 pmSay you’re up with a runner on 1st and nobody out. You lay down a bunt, obviously sacrificing, but the pitcher throws to 2nd not in time. You don’t get credit for a hit there, because you should have been out. It’s a sacrifice, safe on the fielder’s choice.
Similarly, man on 3rd, no out, routine ground ball to short. Throw comes home, runner is safe, everybody is safe. It’s a fielder’s choice, RBI, no at bat, no hit.
The confusion is that people routinely refer to a force out as a fielder’s choice, assuming that they’re synonymous. They’re not. A force out is not a fielder’s choice.
It’s scorer’s discretion — if the scorer feels like they couldn’t have gotten the batter out at 1st, he can give the batter credit for an infield hit. But if the fielder could have made the out but just threw to the wrong base, there is no reason to give the batter credit for a hit. But nobody made an error. It’s a fielder’s choice — there’s no other way to score it.
August 6th, 2008 at 6:43 pmI see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too. Sure glad we got rid of him.
August 6th, 2008 at 7:49 pmRalph_Malph nailed it.
August 6th, 2008 at 8:24 pmFangraphs has that data: Percentage of balls outside or inside strike zone swung at, total swing percentage, contact made in and out of zone, etc.
Yuni is the 10th most frequent swinger this season, Vlad is unsurprisingly #1.
August 6th, 2008 at 8:29 pmAlmost.
In this case, and I think all cases involving a fielders choice, it does count as an at-bat. Because it would have been an out at 1st if the fielder would have made the play on the batter, instead of choosing to make a play elsewhere.
August 6th, 2008 at 8:58 pm113:
I see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too. Sure glad we got rid of him.
I’m glad to see Baek doing well (surviving?), but it is the National League after all. Joel Pinero has similar numbers in that league, but I don’t want to see him back. I do miss Jamie though.
One other thing to consider, it wasn’t a case of Baek or Batista/Silva, not with their contracts. It was Baek or Dickey. For once the M’s made the right decision.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:32 pmI agree there…Dickey’s certainly been one of the brighter spots on the team this season.
August 6th, 2008 at 10:39 pmWhich, of course, is the entire problem…
August 7th, 2008 at 7:51 amI still think the Yankees need Washburn. If he can limit opposing teams to 4 or 5 runs for 6 innings, the Yankees have enough offense to compensate. What he needs to be able to do to be value for the Yankees is pitch innings. I think he can do that.
August 7th, 2008 at 10:34 am