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	<title>Comments on: Game 114, Twins at Mariners</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: TumwaterMike</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295278</link>
		<dc:creator>TumwaterMike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295278</guid>
		<description>I still think the Yankees need Washburn.  If he can limit opposing teams to 4 or 5 runs for 6 innings, the Yankees have enough offense to compensate.  What he needs to be able to do to be value for the Yankees is pitch innings.  I think he can do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think the Yankees need Washburn.  If he can limit opposing teams to 4 or 5 runs for 6 innings, the Yankees have enough offense to compensate.  What he needs to be able to do to be value for the Yankees is pitch innings.  I think he can do that.</p>
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		<title>By: gwangung</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295272</link>
		<dc:creator>gwangung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295272</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One other thing to consider, it wasn’t a case of Baek or Batista/Silva, not with their contracts.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Which, of course, is the entire problem...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One other thing to consider, it wasn’t a case of Baek or Batista/Silva, not with their contracts.</p></blockquote>
<p>Which, of course, is the entire problem&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: scott19</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295261</link>
		<dc:creator>scott19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295261</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It was Baek or Dickey. For once the M’s made the right decision.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree there...Dickey&#039;s certainly been one of the brighter spots on the team this season.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It was Baek or Dickey. For once the M’s made the right decision.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree there&#8230;Dickey&#8217;s certainly been one of the brighter spots on the team this season.</p>
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		<title>By: Kazinski</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295259</link>
		<dc:creator>Kazinski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 05:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295259</guid>
		<description>113: 
&lt;em&gt;I see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too. Sure glad we got rid of him.&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;m glad to see Baek doing well (surviving?), but it is the National League after all.  Joel Pinero has similar numbers in that league, but I don&#039;t want to see him back.  I do miss Jamie though.

One other thing to consider, it wasn&#039;t a case of Baek or Batista/Silva, not with their contracts.  It was Baek or Dickey.  For once the M&#039;s made the right decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>113:<br />
<em>I see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too. Sure glad we got rid of him.</em></p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to see Baek doing well (surviving?), but it is the National League after all.  Joel Pinero has similar numbers in that league, but I don&#8217;t want to see him back.  I do miss Jamie though.</p>
<p>One other thing to consider, it wasn&#8217;t a case of Baek or Batista/Silva, not with their contracts.  It was Baek or Dickey.  For once the M&#8217;s made the right decision.</p>
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		<title>By: EastCoastMsFan</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295253</link>
		<dc:creator>EastCoastMsFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295253</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ralph_Malph nailed it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Almost.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Similarly, man on 3rd, no out, routine ground ball to short. Throw comes home, runner is safe, everybody is safe. It’s a fielder’s choice, RBI, &lt;strong&gt;no at bat,&lt;/strong&gt; no hit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In this case, and I think all cases involving a fielders choice, it does count as an at-bat.  Because it would have been an out at 1st if the fielder would have made the play on the batter, instead of &lt;em&gt;choosing &lt;/em&gt; to make a play elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ralph_Malph nailed it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Almost.</p>
<blockquote><p>Similarly, man on 3rd, no out, routine ground ball to short. Throw comes home, runner is safe, everybody is safe. It’s a fielder’s choice, RBI, <strong>no at bat,</strong> no hit.</p></blockquote>
<p>In this case, and I think all cases involving a fielders choice, it does count as an at-bat.  Because it would have been an out at 1st if the fielder would have made the play on the batter, instead of <em>choosing </em> to make a play elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt the Dragon</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295252</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt the Dragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295252</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Where was it that had the pitches taken, pitches swung at data? It sure seems like Yuni has an historically low percentage of pitches taken. Although today he was almost level — 2 balls, 1 called strike, and 1 HBP versus 2 fouls and three balls in play (outs).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&amp;stats=bat&amp;lg=all&amp;qual=350&amp;type=4&amp;season=2008&amp;month=0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fangraphs&lt;/a&gt; has that data: Percentage of balls outside or inside strike zone swung at, total swing percentage, contact made in and out of zone, etc.

Yuni is the 10th most frequent swinger this season, Vlad is unsurprisingly #1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Where was it that had the pitches taken, pitches swung at data? It sure seems like Yuni has an historically low percentage of pitches taken. Although today he was almost level — 2 balls, 1 called strike, and 1 HBP versus 2 fouls and three balls in play (outs).</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&amp;stats=bat&amp;lg=all&amp;qual=350&amp;type=4&amp;season=2008&amp;month=0" rel="nofollow">Fangraphs</a> has that data: Percentage of balls outside or inside strike zone swung at, total swing percentage, contact made in and out of zone, etc.</p>
<p>Yuni is the 10th most frequent swinger this season, Vlad is unsurprisingly #1.</p>
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		<title>By: Griffey IsMySurrogateDad</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295251</link>
		<dc:creator>Griffey IsMySurrogateDad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295251</guid>
		<description>Ralph_Malph nailed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ralph_Malph nailed it.</p>
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		<title>By: scott19</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295250</link>
		<dc:creator>scott19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295250</guid>
		<description>I see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too.  Sure glad we got rid of him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Baek beat Pedro today at Shea Stadium, too.  Sure glad we got rid of him.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph_Malph</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295247</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph_Malph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295247</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Huh, really? That’s pretty counterintuitive, but okay.

It seems to me that a sacrifice or fielder’s choice inherently involves someone ending up out, otherwise you may as well just call it an infield hit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Say you&#039;re up with a runner on 1st and nobody out.  You lay down a bunt, obviously sacrificing, but the pitcher throws to 2nd not in time.  You don&#039;t get credit for a hit there, because you should have been out.  It&#039;s a sacrifice, safe on the fielder&#039;s choice.

Similarly, man on 3rd, no out, routine ground ball to short.  Throw comes home, runner is safe, everybody is safe.  It&#039;s a fielder&#039;s choice, RBI, no at bat, no hit.

The confusion is that people routinely refer to a force out as a fielder&#039;s choice, assuming that they&#039;re synonymous.  They&#039;re not.  A force out is not a fielder&#039;s choice.

It&#039;s scorer&#039;s discretion -- if the scorer feels like they couldn&#039;t have gotten the batter out at 1st, he can give the batter credit for an infield hit.  But if the fielder could have made the out but just threw to the wrong base, there is no reason to give the batter credit for a hit.  But nobody made an error.  It&#039;s a fielder&#039;s choice -- there&#039;s no other way to score it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Huh, really? That’s pretty counterintuitive, but okay.</p>
<p>It seems to me that a sacrifice or fielder’s choice inherently involves someone ending up out, otherwise you may as well just call it an infield hit.</p></blockquote>
<p>Say you&#8217;re up with a runner on 1st and nobody out.  You lay down a bunt, obviously sacrificing, but the pitcher throws to 2nd not in time.  You don&#8217;t get credit for a hit there, because you should have been out.  It&#8217;s a sacrifice, safe on the fielder&#8217;s choice.</p>
<p>Similarly, man on 3rd, no out, routine ground ball to short.  Throw comes home, runner is safe, everybody is safe.  It&#8217;s a fielder&#8217;s choice, RBI, no at bat, no hit.</p>
<p>The confusion is that people routinely refer to a force out as a fielder&#8217;s choice, assuming that they&#8217;re synonymous.  They&#8217;re not.  A force out is not a fielder&#8217;s choice.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s scorer&#8217;s discretion &#8212; if the scorer feels like they couldn&#8217;t have gotten the batter out at 1st, he can give the batter credit for an infield hit.  But if the fielder could have made the out but just threw to the wrong base, there is no reason to give the batter credit for a hit.  But nobody made an error.  It&#8217;s a fielder&#8217;s choice &#8212; there&#8217;s no other way to score it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve T</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/08/06/game-112-twins-at-mariners/comment-page-3/#comment-295246</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=5700#comment-295246</guid>
		<description>Where was it that had the pitches taken, pitches swung at data? It sure seems like Yuni has an historically low percentage of pitches taken. Although today he was almost level -- 2 balls, 1 called strike, and 1 HBP versus 2 fouls and three balls in play (outs).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where was it that had the pitches taken, pitches swung at data? It sure seems like Yuni has an historically low percentage of pitches taken. Although today he was almost level &#8212; 2 balls, 1 called strike, and 1 HBP versus 2 fouls and three balls in play (outs).</p>
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