Comments on: Clement Out For Season http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:17:03 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: jbarr08 http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299835 jbarr08 Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:54:13 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299835 [ot] [ot]

]]> By: msb http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299828 msb Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:02:12 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299828 I miss Olerud. I miss Olerud.

]]> By: Breadbaker http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299827 Breadbaker Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:47:08 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299827 Bookbook, I have no idea what you're talking about. The M's first basemen from 1995 to 1999 were Tino Martinez, Paul Sorrento and David Segui. All of them had OPS+ at or above the range you describe, except for Segui in 1999, who was shipped to Toronto and replaced by John Olerud the next year. Bookbook, I have no idea what you’re talking about. The M’s first basemen from 1995 to 1999 were Tino Martinez, Paul Sorrento and David Segui. All of them had OPS+ at or above the range you describe, except for Segui in 1999, who was shipped to Toronto and replaced by John Olerud the next year.

]]> By: bookbook http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299823 bookbook Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:41:44 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299823 I've been reading posts over at baseballthinkfactory about first the horrors of Pete Rose playing a 99 OPS+ 1st baseman (himself) in pursuit of the hits record. Then, the fact that Rose would have outhit 13 of the 1B's and DHs of 2008. Thirteen!!! The average OPS for all 1B's was only 109. Clement as a 110-120 OPS+ first baseman for a handful of years would be a darn valuable commodity. Not a superstar, but a plus contributor to championship teams potentially (if the Griffey-ARod-Edgar-Randy M's had only had one!!!) Also worth more than the average result for his draft slot, I'd bet. I’ve been reading posts over at baseballthinkfactory about first the horrors of Pete Rose playing a 99 OPS+ 1st baseman (himself) in pursuit of the hits record. Then, the fact that Rose would have outhit 13 of the 1B’s and DHs of 2008. Thirteen!!! The average OPS for all 1B’s was only 109.

Clement as a 110-120 OPS+ first baseman for a handful of years would be a darn valuable commodity.

Not a superstar, but a plus contributor to championship teams potentially (if the Griffey-ARod-Edgar-Randy M’s had only had one!!!) Also worth more than the average result for his draft slot, I’d bet.

]]> By: doorbot http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299822 doorbot Mon, 08 Sep 2008 04:24:22 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299822 <blockquote>For what its worth, there have been talks of Clement not being able to catch forever - in high school, in college, when he was drafted, and at every stop along the way. This isn’t something we’re just bringing up now - his defense has always been a concern.</blockquote> Damn you Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

For what its worth, there have been talks of Clement not being able to catch forever – in high school, in college, when he was drafted, and at every stop along the way. This isn’t something we’re just bringing up now – his defense has always been a concern.

Damn you Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaave!

]]> By: Steve T http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299811 Steve T Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:05:11 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299811 The problem with evaluating "defensive prowess" for catchers is that it's pretty difficult to even say what that phrase means. It's the only position where the ability to get balls and turn them into outs isn't the primary responsibility. "Working with the pitchers" is hopelessly vague and impossible to judge. So you end up with... passed balls and caught stealing. The problem with evaluating “defensive prowess” for catchers is that it’s pretty difficult to even say what that phrase means. It’s the only position where the ability to get balls and turn them into outs isn’t the primary responsibility. “Working with the pitchers” is hopelessly vague and impossible to judge. So you end up with… passed balls and caught stealing.

]]> By: JI http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299810 JI Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:57:33 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299810 "Are there no defensive metrics other than passed balls and caught stealing that truly evaluate the defensive prowess of a catcher?" How about... http://i34.tinypic.com/2yltn4k.jpg “Are there no defensive metrics other than passed balls and caught stealing that truly evaluate the defensive prowess of a catcher?”

How about…

http://i34.tinypic.com/2yltn4k.jpg

]]> By: metz123 http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-2/#comment-299807 metz123 Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:28:10 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299807 Are there no defensive metrics other than passed balls and caught stealing that truly evaluate the defensive prowess of a catcher? Other than Gold gloves of course, we all know that they are truly the best judge of defensive abilities. I'm hoping that the guys that love numbers (everyone not just the USSM authors) actually have numbers that show Clement's defensive shortcomings. Are there no defensive metrics other than passed balls and caught stealing that truly evaluate the defensive prowess of a catcher?

Other than Gold gloves of course, we all know that they are truly the best judge of defensive abilities.

I’m hoping that the guys that love numbers (everyone not just the USSM authors) actually have numbers that show Clement’s defensive shortcomings.

]]> By: msb http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-1/#comment-299796 msb Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:55:38 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299796 yup. all you have to do is use The Google. yup. all you have to do is use The Google.

]]> By: Dave http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/06/clement-out-for-season/comment-page-1/#comment-299794 Dave Sun, 07 Sep 2008 20:41:25 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6046#comment-299794 For what its worth, there have been talks of Clement not being able to catch forever - in high school, in college, when he was drafted, and at every stop along the way. This isn't something we're just bringing up now - his defense has always been a concern. For what its worth, there have been talks of Clement not being able to catch forever – in high school, in college, when he was drafted, and at every stop along the way. This isn’t something we’re just bringing up now – his defense has always been a concern.

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