<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Feierabend&#8217;s Learning Curve</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:17:03 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: justajim</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299854</link>
		<dc:creator>justajim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299854</guid>
		<description>&quot;A picture is worth a thousand words&quot;

Two things:
Can you add color coding to the charts as to what pitches were strikes, balls, foul balls or hits?

It would be nice to see a Jamie Moyer chart</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A picture is worth a thousand words&#8221;</p>
<p>Two things:<br />
Can you add color coding to the charts as to what pitches were strikes, balls, foul balls or hits?</p>
<p>It would be nice to see a Jamie Moyer chart</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299853</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 05:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299853</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; can’t believe I’m saying this, but Feierabend needs to learn from Jarrod Washburn. &lt;/blockquote&gt; Is this really likely?  There are eight men fighting for five jobs next year, really six fighting for three (I assume Felix, Bedard and Morrow are pretty much locks).  If I&#039;m Feierabend, the man they call the Bus isn&#039;t someone I&#039;d trust to teach me anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> can’t believe I’m saying this, but Feierabend needs to learn from Jarrod Washburn. </p></blockquote>
<p> Is this really likely?  There are eight men fighting for five jobs next year, really six fighting for three (I assume Felix, Bedard and Morrow are pretty much locks).  If I&#8217;m Feierabend, the man they call the Bus isn&#8217;t someone I&#8217;d trust to teach me anything.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: robbbbbb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299852</link>
		<dc:creator>robbbbbb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 04:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299852</guid>
		<description>Oh, wouldn&#039;t it have been fun to have had PitchFX when Hershiser was pitching?

Moyer is the obvious example of this phenomenon because he&#039;s the most extreme.  As Dave&#039;s fond of pointing out: There&#039;s nobody in the last twenty years or so who&#039;s been quite like him.  You&#039;re not supposed to be able to get major leaguers out with an 82 MPH fastball.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, wouldn&#8217;t it have been fun to have had PitchFX when Hershiser was pitching?</p>
<p>Moyer is the obvious example of this phenomenon because he&#8217;s the most extreme.  As Dave&#8217;s fond of pointing out: There&#8217;s nobody in the last twenty years or so who&#8217;s been quite like him.  You&#8217;re not supposed to be able to get major leaguers out with an 82 MPH fastball.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Relyt</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299851</link>
		<dc:creator>Relyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 03:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299851</guid>
		<description>It reminds me of something I read in the book Men at Work, by George Will.  

In it, Orel Hershiser talks about really having 9 or 10 pitches, because he threw his curve (among others) at many different speeds.  

Same grip, same arm action, but different speeds based on what he thought would work best at that particular time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It reminds me of something I read in the book Men at Work, by George Will.  </p>
<p>In it, Orel Hershiser talks about really having 9 or 10 pitches, because he threw his curve (among others) at many different speeds.  </p>
<p>Same grip, same arm action, but different speeds based on what he thought would work best at that particular time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Relyt</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299850</link>
		<dc:creator>Relyt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 03:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299850</guid>
		<description>Its all about timing.  

If a hitter is sitting on a particular pitch, and the pitcher throws that pitch at a little different speed than the batter expects, it becomes a different pitch. 

Moyer does this a lot.  His change-up can come in at varying speeds, so that even if the hitter is sitting on it, he doesn&#039;t expect it to be that exact speed, and his timing is off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its all about timing.  </p>
<p>If a hitter is sitting on a particular pitch, and the pitcher throws that pitch at a little different speed than the batter expects, it becomes a different pitch. </p>
<p>Moyer does this a lot.  His change-up can come in at varying speeds, so that even if the hitter is sitting on it, he doesn&#8217;t expect it to be that exact speed, and his timing is off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bookbook</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299849</link>
		<dc:creator>bookbook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299849</guid>
		<description>I thought you were going the other way with this one, Dave.

If a guy&#039;s guessing (90 MPH fastball) and he&#039;s wrong, might he still be able to hit the 84 MPH mildly curving curve whereas he&#039;d miss the 78 MPH one?

I thought that differentiation between your pitches was generally an advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you were going the other way with this one, Dave.</p>
<p>If a guy&#8217;s guessing (90 MPH fastball) and he&#8217;s wrong, might he still be able to hit the 84 MPH mildly curving curve whereas he&#8217;d miss the 78 MPH one?</p>
<p>I thought that differentiation between your pitches was generally an advantage.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave Clapper</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299847</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Clapper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299847</guid>
		<description>Question: how much of hitting is guessing correctly what the pitcher is throwing? If a lot of it is, then I suspect it&#039;s better to have these distinct boxes than to have Washburnian overlap between them. Why? If one guesses wrong on a Washburn gray area pitch, one is going to be closer to it (and if it&#039;s close enough, actually do something worthwhile with it) than if one guesses wrong on a non-gray Feierabend pitch.

I dunno if I&#039;m positing that clearly or not. Hitter is guessing a pitch will be in the 85 box. From Wash being subtle, he gets an 82 (different box, but 3mph different). From Feier, he gets an 80 (different box, but 5mph different).

Does that seem reasonable? Yes, Washburn is mixing more and his spread is all over the place, but the difference doesn&#039;t SEEM like as much (and often isn&#039;t).

Edit: PS, are y&#039;all having problems with your RSS feed? This post never did come up in my feed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question: how much of hitting is guessing correctly what the pitcher is throwing? If a lot of it is, then I suspect it&#8217;s better to have these distinct boxes than to have Washburnian overlap between them. Why? If one guesses wrong on a Washburn gray area pitch, one is going to be closer to it (and if it&#8217;s close enough, actually do something worthwhile with it) than if one guesses wrong on a non-gray Feierabend pitch.</p>
<p>I dunno if I&#8217;m positing that clearly or not. Hitter is guessing a pitch will be in the 85 box. From Wash being subtle, he gets an 82 (different box, but 3mph different). From Feier, he gets an 80 (different box, but 5mph different).</p>
<p>Does that seem reasonable? Yes, Washburn is mixing more and his spread is all over the place, but the difference doesn&#8217;t SEEM like as much (and often isn&#8217;t).</p>
<p>Edit: PS, are y&#8217;all having problems with your RSS feed? This post never did come up in my feed&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jsa</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299846</link>
		<dc:creator>jsa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299846</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know where to post this, or even if it belongs here [deleted, ot]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know where to post this, or even if it belongs here [deleted, ot]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299845</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Sep 2008 00:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299845</guid>
		<description>Well, I wonder how many boxes you need, though?  We&#039;re talking about boxes in time here, not space, and they&#039;re pretty tiny.  &lt;a&gt;Google tells me&lt;/a&gt; that Feierabend&#039;s range of speeds is from roughly 100 ft/s to 132 ft/s.  Over 60.5 feet, that&#039;s 0.6 to 0.46 seconds, or roughly a difference of .147 seconds.  Humans can perceive things much quicker, but in terms of actual reaction time you&#039;re already slicing things pretty fine.  Does he just need one more speed grade in the middle?  Or does he need to have more of a drunken walk around the velocity chart like Washburn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I wonder how many boxes you need, though?  We&#8217;re talking about boxes in time here, not space, and they&#8217;re pretty tiny.  <a>Google tells me</a> that Feierabend&#8217;s range of speeds is from roughly 100 ft/s to 132 ft/s.  Over 60.5 feet, that&#8217;s 0.6 to 0.46 seconds, or roughly a difference of .147 seconds.  Humans can perceive things much quicker, but in terms of actual reaction time you&#8217;re already slicing things pretty fine.  Does he just need one more speed grade in the middle?  Or does he need to have more of a drunken walk around the velocity chart like Washburn?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/08/feierabends-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-299843</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 22:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6051#comment-299843</guid>
		<description>Marc&#039;s right in a sense - this is just my personal theory, and I can&#039;t show a huge mound of evidence that defends my position.  I might be totally wrong.  

However, I do think we&#039;ve seen enough pitchers succeed for long periods of time with highly questionable stuff to realize that there&#039;s certainly an element of game theory that can overcome a lack of pure talent.  Moyer is the obvious example that is always cited, but he&#039;s definitely not the only one - we&#039;ve seen a lot of pitchers get hitters out simply by changing speeds and throwing strikes.  

I think Feierabend would benefit from being less predictable.  Right now, a hitter can basically focus on three narrow boxes that differentiate the velocity and movement of a pitch that leaves Feierabend&#039;s hand - adding in a few more boxes to make their decision harder seems unlikely to be a bad thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc&#8217;s right in a sense &#8211; this is just my personal theory, and I can&#8217;t show a huge mound of evidence that defends my position.  I might be totally wrong.  </p>
<p>However, I do think we&#8217;ve seen enough pitchers succeed for long periods of time with highly questionable stuff to realize that there&#8217;s certainly an element of game theory that can overcome a lack of pure talent.  Moyer is the obvious example that is always cited, but he&#8217;s definitely not the only one &#8211; we&#8217;ve seen a lot of pitchers get hitters out simply by changing speeds and throwing strikes.  </p>
<p>I think Feierabend would benefit from being less predictable.  Right now, a hitter can basically focus on three narrow boxes that differentiate the velocity and movement of a pitch that leaves Feierabend&#8217;s hand &#8211; adding in a few more boxes to make their decision harder seems unlikely to be a bad thing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
