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	<title>Comments on: Teammates Hate Ichiro, We Hate Teammates</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: gloo</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301654</link>
		<dc:creator>gloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 03:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301654</guid>
		<description>This is the quote that might have rubbed Silva the wrong way (from http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004315366_ichiro30.html
)



&quot;Speed is a very important skill in my game, but more than that, if the day ever comes where I start getting a gut, that&#039;s the day I will quit baseball,&quot; he said.

When that statement is greeted with a laugh by both the reporter and Barron — Ichiro&#039;s diabolically low body-fat measurement is the stuff of legend — he interjects quickly, &quot;That was actually not a joke. I think that&#039;s important.

&quot;Baseball and golf are the only sports where the athletes can have a gut and still play well. None of the other sports is like that except perhaps sumo, which is a special case.

&quot;I really don&#039;t like the fact that baseball has that image. That&#039;s why it&#039;s important for me not to fall into that image.&quot;

Asked if it embarrasses him to see portly, out-of-shape players, he replied, with an amused glint, &quot;I can&#039;t say that, because there&#039;s people like that that are actually out there.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the quote that might have rubbed Silva the wrong way (from <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004315366_ichiro30.html" rel="nofollow">http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004315366_ichiro30.html</a><br />
)</p>
<p>&#8220;Speed is a very important skill in my game, but more than that, if the day ever comes where I start getting a gut, that&#8217;s the day I will quit baseball,&#8221; he said.</p>
<p>When that statement is greeted with a laugh by both the reporter and Barron — Ichiro&#8217;s diabolically low body-fat measurement is the stuff of legend — he interjects quickly, &#8220;That was actually not a joke. I think that&#8217;s important.</p>
<p>&#8220;Baseball and golf are the only sports where the athletes can have a gut and still play well. None of the other sports is like that except perhaps sumo, which is a special case.</p>
<p>&#8220;I really don&#8217;t like the fact that baseball has that image. That&#8217;s why it&#8217;s important for me not to fall into that image.&#8221;</p>
<p>Asked if it embarrasses him to see portly, out-of-shape players, he replied, with an amused glint, &#8220;I can&#8217;t say that, because there&#8217;s people like that that are actually out there.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pinball1973</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301567</link>
		<dc:creator>pinball1973</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301567</guid>
		<description>What a dirty tempest in an unwashed tepot THIS story is!

  Baker is a sportwriter, and therefore can be assumed, until proven otherwise, to be a sneaky, cranky, backstabbing shit.  Here, he has reached no more than the level of a typical NY Post column.

  It is all in good fun.
  It&#039;s really no big deal,...

  ...so I suggest surrounding the Seattle Times building as a mob; tar and feathering him; and riding him out of town on a rail.
  Free South Pacific will be served to all mobbers, who can use the empties (there will be no extras after this season) to attempt to pelt said reporter on his pin head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a dirty tempest in an unwashed tepot THIS story is!</p>
<p>  Baker is a sportwriter, and therefore can be assumed, until proven otherwise, to be a sneaky, cranky, backstabbing shit.  Here, he has reached no more than the level of a typical NY Post column.</p>
<p>  It is all in good fun.<br />
  It&#8217;s really no big deal,&#8230;</p>
<p>  &#8230;so I suggest surrounding the Seattle Times building as a mob; tar and feathering him; and riding him out of town on a rail.<br />
  Free South Pacific will be served to all mobbers, who can use the empties (there will be no extras after this season) to attempt to pelt said reporter on his pin head.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301548</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301548</guid>
		<description>Actually, Ichiro did move to center mid-season because Reed got hurt and they had no other options at that point. But I remember that he said something along the lines of what Derek&#039;s remembering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Ichiro did move to center mid-season because Reed got hurt and they had no other options at that point. But I remember that he said something along the lines of what Derek&#8217;s remembering.</p>
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		<title>By: tajacko</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301547</link>
		<dc:creator>tajacko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301547</guid>
		<description>Where have you gone Jay Buhner?.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where have you gone Jay Buhner?&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301544</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301544</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been parsing the words pretty carefully and trying to remember the season.  In mid-May, the M&#039;s had gone from a disappointing April completely down the drain, losing six straight and eleven out of twelve.  The team was getting no production out of DH, 1B, C or RF, so the GM put the blame on Greg Norton.  The manager had demonstrated that he had no ability to right the ship.  If you were a Mariner who cared, you were intensely frustrated.

Different people express their frustration in different ways.  Some throw chairs or put their fists through walls.  Some decide to remember that next time up they should do something different and work on that.  

If you&#039;re one of the first kind and you see Ichiro, who in my observation is of the second kind, and you can&#039;t really speak to him or understand what he&#039;s thinking, and you&#039;re frustrated because you bought the front office&#039;s story that we were contenders this year, and you want everyone to react to games the way you do, and you see Ichiro not doing that, I can understand you getting angry.  I am not justifying it, but I am understanding it.  And maybe you say something to someone that &quot;one clubhouse source&quot; overhears.  Something really stupid in your frustration like &quot;I&#039;d like to punch out Ichiro.&quot;  I imagine you say it far away from Ichiro, far away from any circumstance where you could in fact punch out Ichiro, but you know in your heart of hearts that punching out Ichiro is career-suicide on so many levels it&#039;s not funny.  

I can also imagine frustrated players expressing, to someone in the clubhouse, a dislike of Ichiro.  Those same players who, when he does something to win a game, will be high-fiving him.  People are hypocrites, and baseball players are people.  Ichiro, like Ted Williams, is probably not everyone&#039;s cup of tea.  

Much ado about nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been parsing the words pretty carefully and trying to remember the season.  In mid-May, the M&#8217;s had gone from a disappointing April completely down the drain, losing six straight and eleven out of twelve.  The team was getting no production out of DH, 1B, C or RF, so the GM put the blame on Greg Norton.  The manager had demonstrated that he had no ability to right the ship.  If you were a Mariner who cared, you were intensely frustrated.</p>
<p>Different people express their frustration in different ways.  Some throw chairs or put their fists through walls.  Some decide to remember that next time up they should do something different and work on that.  </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re one of the first kind and you see Ichiro, who in my observation is of the second kind, and you can&#8217;t really speak to him or understand what he&#8217;s thinking, and you&#8217;re frustrated because you bought the front office&#8217;s story that we were contenders this year, and you want everyone to react to games the way you do, and you see Ichiro not doing that, I can understand you getting angry.  I am not justifying it, but I am understanding it.  And maybe you say something to someone that &#8220;one clubhouse source&#8221; overhears.  Something really stupid in your frustration like &#8220;I&#8217;d like to punch out Ichiro.&#8221;  I imagine you say it far away from Ichiro, far away from any circumstance where you could in fact punch out Ichiro, but you know in your heart of hearts that punching out Ichiro is career-suicide on so many levels it&#8217;s not funny.  </p>
<p>I can also imagine frustrated players expressing, to someone in the clubhouse, a dislike of Ichiro.  Those same players who, when he does something to win a game, will be high-fiving him.  People are hypocrites, and baseball players are people.  Ichiro, like Ted Williams, is probably not everyone&#8217;s cup of tea.  </p>
<p>Much ado about nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301540</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301540</guid>
		<description>Ichiro refused to move to CF when they first had Winn out there and it was really rocky those first months. I believe this has come out since, though I don&#039;t have a cite on me. He wanted at least a full off-season to prepare, and later when he got that, he played center and didn&#039;t kvetch about it.

Now, we can argue that refusing to move mid-season to center but being happy about moving to right mid-season is a jerk move. But I think he felt right was his natural position, he&#039;d been there for many years, and didn&#039;t want to move to center full-time without adequate prep. I don&#039;t see that as too selfish, especially considering that he did move later and did it well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ichiro refused to move to CF when they first had Winn out there and it was really rocky those first months. I believe this has come out since, though I don&#8217;t have a cite on me. He wanted at least a full off-season to prepare, and later when he got that, he played center and didn&#8217;t kvetch about it.</p>
<p>Now, we can argue that refusing to move mid-season to center but being happy about moving to right mid-season is a jerk move. But I think he felt right was his natural position, he&#8217;d been there for many years, and didn&#8217;t want to move to center full-time without adequate prep. I don&#8217;t see that as too selfish, especially considering that he did move later and did it well.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301538</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301538</guid>
		<description>Axtell, you&#039;ve misunderstood what I wrote completely. Gomez pointed out that Ibanez has been a DH despite &quot;refusing&quot; to DH, I made the same point about Ichiro and CF. And McLaren himself said when he made the move back that RF was clearly Ichiro&#039;s preference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Axtell, you&#8217;ve misunderstood what I wrote completely. Gomez pointed out that Ibanez has been a DH despite &#8220;refusing&#8221; to DH, I made the same point about Ichiro and CF. And McLaren himself said when he made the move back that RF was clearly Ichiro&#8217;s preference.</p>
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		<title>By: Axtell</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301537</link>
		<dc:creator>Axtell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301537</guid>
		<description>In response to you, Mike Snow, Ichiro refused to play CF? Are you sure about that one, guy? Are you sure it wasn&#039;t the manager making the move, and shifting Ichiro back to RF?

Ichiro made his &#039;preference abundantly clear&#039;? Can you please back this up with specific references or kindly retract your statement as the bald-faced lie it is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to you, Mike Snow, Ichiro refused to play CF? Are you sure about that one, guy? Are you sure it wasn&#8217;t the manager making the move, and shifting Ichiro back to RF?</p>
<p>Ichiro made his &#8216;preference abundantly clear&#8217;? Can you please back this up with specific references or kindly retract your statement as the bald-faced lie it is?</p>
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		<title>By: Axtell</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301535</link>
		<dc:creator>Axtell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301535</guid>
		<description>One point I immediately thought of in regards to this story that I haven&#039;t seen addressed:  if the threat of physical violence against a teammate was known, then why in god&#039;s name wasn&#039;t that player punished/released?  If this happened back in April/May, doesn&#039;t it make Ichiro&#039;s season even that much more impressive?

How well would any of us work with the looming thought of violence by those who I am supposed to be on the same team with?  Good god! Could you imagine having to worry about that every day going to work, that some jealous buffoon is going to attack you because you are successful at what you do?

It&#039;s apparent there are commenters in this thread who are either racist or the same type of haters that want to hurt Ichiro.  How exactly do you criticize a guy like Ichiro, a guy who goes out every single day and kills it, despite being on the worst run franchise in all of baseball?  But players who truly suck like Silva, and Washburn, and the others you are ok with?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One point I immediately thought of in regards to this story that I haven&#8217;t seen addressed:  if the threat of physical violence against a teammate was known, then why in god&#8217;s name wasn&#8217;t that player punished/released?  If this happened back in April/May, doesn&#8217;t it make Ichiro&#8217;s season even that much more impressive?</p>
<p>How well would any of us work with the looming thought of violence by those who I am supposed to be on the same team with?  Good god! Could you imagine having to worry about that every day going to work, that some jealous buffoon is going to attack you because you are successful at what you do?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s apparent there are commenters in this thread who are either racist or the same type of haters that want to hurt Ichiro.  How exactly do you criticize a guy like Ichiro, a guy who goes out every single day and kills it, despite being on the worst run franchise in all of baseball?  But players who truly suck like Silva, and Washburn, and the others you are ok with?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Snow</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/09/25/teammates-hate-ichiro-we-hate-teammates/comment-page-3/#comment-301532</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 05:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6198#comment-301532</guid>
		<description>Ibanez has refused to be a regular DH in the same way that Ichiro has refused to play CF. They both have said that they would do what the team asks them to while still making their preference abundantly clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ibanez has refused to be a regular DH in the same way that Ichiro has refused to play CF. They both have said that they would do what the team asks them to while still making their preference abundantly clear.</p>
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