Comments on: The 2010 Mariners http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/ Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:38:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: ajn007 http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-304180 ajn007 Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:09:17 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-304180 [bye then] [bye then]

]]> By: joser http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-304126 joser Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:15:42 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-304126 If the O's move Roberts to short as <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/10/31/sheehan.trades/index.html" rel="nofollow">Sheehan suggests</a>, maybe the M's can bundle Bedard and Lopez to get back Adam Jones. OK, ok, that's unrealistic. Maybe Bedard and Lopez and a PTNL for Mickolio. If the O’s move Roberts to short as Sheehan suggests, maybe the M’s can bundle Bedard and Lopez to get back Adam Jones. OK, ok, that’s unrealistic. Maybe Bedard and Lopez and a PTNL for Mickolio.

]]> By: TotallyNotWilly http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-304051 TotallyNotWilly Fri, 31 Oct 2008 19:00:37 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-304051 brad_i you make a good point about defense on the major league club. McClaren was known for not pushing his players to work on infield practice. I don't know about Hargrove, but it has seemed to me the team's defense and focus on consistent, excellent play in all aspects of the game has suffered ever since Lou left. I just think we keep hiring pushovers for managers and players have been allowed to slip in terms of their work ethic. Freakish exceptions like Ichiro excluded, of course. brad_i you make a good point about defense on the major league club. McClaren was known for not pushing his players to work on infield practice. I don’t know about Hargrove, but it has seemed to me the team’s defense and focus on consistent, excellent play in all aspects of the game has suffered ever since Lou left. I just think we keep hiring pushovers for managers and players have been allowed to slip in terms of their work ethic. Freakish exceptions like Ichiro excluded, of course.

]]> By: brad_i http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-304043 brad_i Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:54:43 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-304043 eponymous coward, I was talking more about Yuni and Jose's defense, which to be generous, has not improved during their stay in Seattle. Why can Tui improve his defense in Tacoma, but the DP Twins can't do it a few miles north? The isolated patience (OBP - AVG) on those slash lines doesn't look too good for Lopez, either. And you left out games played in your slash lines. I'd guess Guillen played a lot fewer games than Lopez. eponymous coward, I was talking more about Yuni and Jose’s defense, which to be generous, has not improved during their stay in Seattle. Why can Tui improve his defense in Tacoma, but the DP Twins can’t do it a few miles north?

The isolated patience (OBP – AVG) on those slash lines doesn’t look too good for Lopez, either.

And you left out games played in your slash lines. I’d guess Guillen played a lot fewer games than Lopez.

]]> By: MyOhMy http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303993 MyOhMy Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:26:33 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303993 I just read that Mike Jacobs got traded to the Royals for a Leo Nunez. Jacobs K/BB isn't much to be desired, but a Left handed power bat at Safeco is ... 32 HR's, 93 RBI last year. Any thoughts on Jacobs? I gotta believe Z will be pulling a player or two from the Brewers farm system and I agree with Dave that Brad Nelson would be a logical place to start. I just read that Mike Jacobs got traded to the Royals for a Leo Nunez. Jacobs K/BB isn’t much to be desired, but a Left handed power bat at Safeco is … 32 HR’s, 93 RBI last year.

Any thoughts on Jacobs? I gotta believe Z will be pulling a player or two from the Brewers farm system and I agree with Dave that Brad Nelson would be a logical place to start.

]]> By: Kemp http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303992 Kemp Fri, 31 Oct 2008 00:02:21 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303992 I don't think there's any way Betancourt is playing SS in 2010 as long as the Mariners do the smart thing and take Grant Green in the upcoming draft. Heck, by the end of 2010, he'll probably be batting third for the M's! I don’t think there’s any way Betancourt is playing SS in 2010 as long as the Mariners do the smart thing and take Grant Green in the upcoming draft. Heck, by the end of 2010, he’ll probably be batting third for the M’s!

]]> By: ajn007 http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303989 ajn007 Thu, 30 Oct 2008 23:00:31 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303989 [this is not a board] [this is not a board]

]]> By: eponymous coward http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303964 eponymous coward Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:36:37 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303964 <em>Over the last few years, I’ve become appalled by the lack of maturation/skill development by guys like Lopez and Yuni at the major league level.</em> I can agree on Yuni, but Lopez? He obviously was promoted too early (because the 2004-2005 teams were terrible, the M's thought "what the hell"), and really, let me show something to you before we stamp his career with a big FAIL stamp: Jose Lopez, through age 24 season: .271/.303/.398 Player A, through age 24 season: .226/.286/.373 Player B, through age 24 season: .262/.306/.404 Players A and B? Miguel Tejada and Jose Guillen. My feeling is Jose Lopez is probably the new Jose Guillen/Carlos Lee- he should be put in the corner OF and left alone to hit .295/.340/.500, which is fine for corner OF as long as you aren't paying them 8 digits a year on a contract that will outlast a presidential term. Over the last few years, I’ve become appalled by the lack of maturation/skill development by guys like Lopez and Yuni at the major league level.

I can agree on Yuni, but Lopez? He obviously was promoted too early (because the 2004-2005 teams were terrible, the M’s thought “what the hell”), and really, let me show something to you before we stamp his career with a big FAIL stamp:

Jose Lopez, through age 24 season: .271/.303/.398
Player A, through age 24 season: .226/.286/.373
Player B, through age 24 season: .262/.306/.404

Players A and B? Miguel Tejada and Jose Guillen.

My feeling is Jose Lopez is probably the new Jose Guillen/Carlos Lee- he should be put in the corner OF and left alone to hit .295/.340/.500, which is fine for corner OF as long as you aren’t paying them 8 digits a year on a contract that will outlast a presidential term.

]]> By: eponymous coward http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303962 eponymous coward Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:25:04 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303962 <em>Don’t get me wrong the posts about is statistics over the past are an indicator of his future, but human beings don’t always folllow a predictable behavior. To leave out his spring training last year or his first year up with the mariners as data that is not important is simply not looking at the other data</em> If you're talking to me: - yes, I included Morse's first year. Surprise! He didn't slug .400 his first MLB season, either. - no, I did NOT include spring training. Spring training is a horrible predictor of MLB hitting ability- you're facing everything from MLB pitchers who are working on new pitches to A ball, in tiny parks at altitude and dry air that inflate offense, and you have the ultimate in Small Sample Size Theatre. Even the players like Raul Ibanez who surprise people in the majors have better minor league hitting stats than Morse (.295/.361/.473 for Raul, .261/.312/.408 for Morse). Bryan LaHair, by the by, is a better hitter in the minors than Mike Morse (.287/.350/.456). You can invoke all the special pleading you want ("But his spring training in 2008 was great!"), but there's just no evidence Mike Morse deserves anything more than a bit player role on a MLB team, if that. Don’t get me wrong the posts about is statistics over the past are an indicator of his future, but human beings don’t always folllow a predictable behavior. To leave out his spring training last year or his first year up with the mariners as data that is not important is simply not looking at the other data

If you’re talking to me:

- yes, I included Morse’s first year. Surprise! He didn’t slug .400 his first MLB season, either.

- no, I did NOT include spring training. Spring training is a horrible predictor of MLB hitting ability- you’re facing everything from MLB pitchers who are working on new pitches to A ball, in tiny parks at altitude and dry air that inflate offense, and you have the ultimate in Small Sample Size Theatre.

Even the players like Raul Ibanez who surprise people in the majors have better minor league hitting stats than Morse (.295/.361/.473 for Raul, .261/.312/.408 for Morse). Bryan LaHair, by the by, is a better hitter in the minors than Mike Morse (.287/.350/.456).

You can invoke all the special pleading you want (”But his spring training in 2008 was great!”), but there’s just no evidence Mike Morse deserves anything more than a bit player role on a MLB team, if that.

]]> By: Benne http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/29/the-2010-mariners/comment-page-2/#comment-303957 Benne Thu, 30 Oct 2008 19:27:15 +0000 http://ussmariner.com/?p=6551#comment-303957 If you think Morse and LaHair are the answers, you're asking the wrong questions. If you think Morse and LaHair are the answers, you’re asking the wrong questions.

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