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	<title>Comments on: A&#8217;s Acquire Holliday</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304865</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304865</guid>
		<description>Sheehan &lt;a href=&quot;http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/11/12/bp.hollidaytrade/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;evaluates it&lt;/a&gt; as a win for the A&#039;s, without factoring in anything beyond next year (which is probably a win either way -- they sign him or they take the draft picks).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sheehan <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/11/12/bp.hollidaytrade/index.html" rel="nofollow">evaluates it</a> as a win for the A&#8217;s, without factoring in anything beyond next year (which is probably a win either way &#8212; they sign him or they take the draft picks).</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304726</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 19:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304726</guid>
		<description>Boras has been willing in the past to place a player where they will be happy, vs. where he will make the most money. 

I think it is so he has an example to point to when accused of only pointing players to the biggest payoffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boras has been willing in the past to place a player where they will be happy, vs. where he will make the most money. </p>
<p>I think it is so he has an example to point to when accused of only pointing players to the biggest payoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: galaxieboi</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304721</link>
		<dc:creator>galaxieboi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304721</guid>
		<description>That doesn&#039;t make any sense.  If he was &#039;anti-Boras&#039; he&#039;d fire Mr. Boras.  

The Rockies, IMHO, low balled him.  They knew they didn&#039;t have a shot with him being a Scott Boras client, made a token offer so they could tell Rockies&#039; fans, &#039;Hey!  We tried, he and his agent are greedy and causing a distraction!&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That doesn&#8217;t make any sense.  If he was &#8216;anti-Boras&#8217; he&#8217;d fire Mr. Boras.  </p>
<p>The Rockies, IMHO, low balled him.  They knew they didn&#8217;t have a shot with him being a Scott Boras client, made a token offer so they could tell Rockies&#8217; fans, &#8216;Hey!  We tried, he and his agent are greedy and causing a distraction!&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: bratman</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304719</link>
		<dc:creator>bratman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304719</guid>
		<description>galaxieboi he is Boras&#039;s client but they are saying he is the anti-Boras if that makes sense.

He told the rockies he would take less money to stay, apparently they only offered him 4 years instead of 6. Boras&#039;s clients usually will not take less money ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>galaxieboi he is Boras&#8217;s client but they are saying he is the anti-Boras if that makes sense.</p>
<p>He told the rockies he would take less money to stay, apparently they only offered him 4 years instead of 6. Boras&#8217;s clients usually will not take less money &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: marc w</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304715</link>
		<dc:creator>marc w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304715</guid>
		<description>I think that&#039;s exactly right, Sal.   
If you think Gonzalez is an above average bat in the future, this deal is more of a win-win (A&#039;s trading from depth).   If you think Gonzalez is the product of great hitting environments, not so much (A&#039;s trading on hype). 

I haven&#039;t seen as much of Cunningham, but I think you&#039;d have to be pretty bold to assume that the A&#039;s just screwed this up.  Cunningham&#039;s minor league numbers are quite good considering ARL and park.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that&#8217;s exactly right, Sal.<br />
If you think Gonzalez is an above average bat in the future, this deal is more of a win-win (A&#8217;s trading from depth).   If you think Gonzalez is the product of great hitting environments, not so much (A&#8217;s trading on hype). </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen as much of Cunningham, but I think you&#8217;d have to be pretty bold to assume that the A&#8217;s just screwed this up.  Cunningham&#8217;s minor league numbers are quite good considering ARL and park.</p>
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		<title>By: galaxieboi</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304712</link>
		<dc:creator>galaxieboi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304712</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;He is the anti-Boras and would take less money to keep winning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh, only I think he&#039;s a Boras client.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>He is the anti-Boras and would take less money to keep winning.</p></blockquote>
<p>Uh, only I think he&#8217;s a Boras client.</p>
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		<title>By: bratman</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304708</link>
		<dc:creator>bratman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304708</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I wouldnt be surprised if Beane goes against his philosophy and signs Holliday to a long term deal&lt;/blockquote&gt;. 

I actually have been hearing this as well ... it seems like they might make Holliday the face of the A&#039;s franchise. He is the anti-Boras and would take less money to keep winning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I wouldnt be surprised if Beane goes against his philosophy and signs Holliday to a long term deal</p></blockquote>
<p>. </p>
<p>I actually have been hearing this as well &#8230; it seems like they might make Holliday the face of the A&#8217;s franchise. He is the anti-Boras and would take less money to keep winning.</p>
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		<title>By: sbaxamusa</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304704</link>
		<dc:creator>sbaxamusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304704</guid>
		<description>It comes down your evaluation of Carlos Gonzalez: tools goof or tools monster?  He looked completely overmatched at the plate last year, and while he was young, he wasn&#039;t superstar-breaking-into-the-majors young.  But there&#039;s no denying his defense and arm, which are already top notch, and the potential for 30-HR power.

What&#039;s interesting is that the A&#039;s had a glut of outfielders (Sweeney, Buck, Gonzalez, Denorfia, Davis, Cunningham), none very good at the moment but some with the potential to be quite good in the future.   So it was no suprise that they included an outfielder.  The identity was a surprise though.  

Looking back on it, it&#039;s fascinating to compare Aaron Cunningham with Carlos Gonzalez.  Cunningham is six months younger than Gonzalez and has a 311/384/496 minor league line compared to .286/.340/.473 for Gonzalez.  Cunningham has also sustained his success through the high minors while Gonzalez had most of his success in the low minors.  It wouldn&#039;t be a shocker (although it&#039;s no slam dunk) if Aaron Cunningham made Carlos Gonzalez expendable.  It&#039;s hard to fathom at first, and Gonzalez certainly has the potential to be the much better player, but I&#039;m beginning to come around to the idea that this is the key to Oakland&#039;s thinking.

Having said all that, it will be sad to see Huston Street go.  He is an excellent pitcher, certainly underrated, and still very young (he&#039;ll be 26 in August).  Bullpen arms are more fungible than other player classes, but Street&#039;s a good one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It comes down your evaluation of Carlos Gonzalez: tools goof or tools monster?  He looked completely overmatched at the plate last year, and while he was young, he wasn&#8217;t superstar-breaking-into-the-majors young.  But there&#8217;s no denying his defense and arm, which are already top notch, and the potential for 30-HR power.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting is that the A&#8217;s had a glut of outfielders (Sweeney, Buck, Gonzalez, Denorfia, Davis, Cunningham), none very good at the moment but some with the potential to be quite good in the future.   So it was no suprise that they included an outfielder.  The identity was a surprise though.  </p>
<p>Looking back on it, it&#8217;s fascinating to compare Aaron Cunningham with Carlos Gonzalez.  Cunningham is six months younger than Gonzalez and has a 311/384/496 minor league line compared to .286/.340/.473 for Gonzalez.  Cunningham has also sustained his success through the high minors while Gonzalez had most of his success in the low minors.  It wouldn&#8217;t be a shocker (although it&#8217;s no slam dunk) if Aaron Cunningham made Carlos Gonzalez expendable.  It&#8217;s hard to fathom at first, and Gonzalez certainly has the potential to be the much better player, but I&#8217;m beginning to come around to the idea that this is the key to Oakland&#8217;s thinking.</p>
<p>Having said all that, it will be sad to see Huston Street go.  He is an excellent pitcher, certainly underrated, and still very young (he&#8217;ll be 26 in August).  Bullpen arms are more fungible than other player classes, but Street&#8217;s a good one.</p>
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		<title>By: marc w</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304700</link>
		<dc:creator>marc w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304700</guid>
		<description>Greg Smith and Chris Tillman are about as dissimilar as pitching prospects get.   Smith is more akin to Ryan Feierabend than Tillman.   

The centerpiece is Gonzalez, and while the a&#039;s sold low, they&#039;re acquiring a great defensive corner OF with a much, much better bat than Gonzalez.   They&#039;ve already got Cunningham who&#039;s likely to be a better hitter in the short-medium term anyway, and they&#039;ve got a wildcard in Travis Buck for insurance.   Gonzalez had always played in great hitting environments, and while young, just put up an OBP 40 points less than Jones while spending a lot of time in the corners, not CF.   SO FAR, it&#039;s not close.   

I&#039;m not sure about the Harden deal, though you&#039;ve gotta admit other teams were discounting Harden due to his durability, so that may not be on Beane.   But this is a very nice deal for the A&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg Smith and Chris Tillman are about as dissimilar as pitching prospects get.   Smith is more akin to Ryan Feierabend than Tillman.   </p>
<p>The centerpiece is Gonzalez, and while the a&#8217;s sold low, they&#8217;re acquiring a great defensive corner OF with a much, much better bat than Gonzalez.   They&#8217;ve already got Cunningham who&#8217;s likely to be a better hitter in the short-medium term anyway, and they&#8217;ve got a wildcard in Travis Buck for insurance.   Gonzalez had always played in great hitting environments, and while young, just put up an OBP 40 points less than Jones while spending a lot of time in the corners, not CF.   SO FAR, it&#8217;s not close.   </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure about the Harden deal, though you&#8217;ve gotta admit other teams were discounting Harden due to his durability, so that may not be on Beane.   But this is a very nice deal for the A&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: rcc</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/10/as-aqcuire-holliday/comment-page-1/#comment-304699</link>
		<dc:creator>rcc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 06:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6678#comment-304699</guid>
		<description>Is Billy Beane losing his touch.  I think he got too little for Rich Harden, and now he gave up too much for Matt Holliday.  

The A&#039;s gave up on Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith after just one year each.  This sounds like the M&#039;s giving up on propects like Adam Jones and Chris Tillman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is Billy Beane losing his touch.  I think he got too little for Rich Harden, and now he gave up too much for Matt Holliday.  </p>
<p>The A&#8217;s gave up on Carlos Gonzalez and Greg Smith after just one year each.  This sounds like the M&#8217;s giving up on propects like Adam Jones and Chris Tillman.</p>
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