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	<title>Comments on: Adios, Yung-Chi Chen</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304886</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304886</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m saying 1.5 WAR is Wilson&#039;s upside, and I think he&#039;s got about a 10% chance of being that good.  Math says I think Wilson&#039;s value is like .15 WAR.  Basically, replacement level/non-prospect.  

Compare with Chen, who maybe has a 1.0 WAR upside, but has a 25% chance of making it.  That&#039;d make him a .25 WAR value - still replacement level/non-prospect, but a shade better.  

As for Chen&#039;s spot, I&#039;d agree that he&#039;s behind Valbuena/Hulett, but I&#039;d argue that Hulett&#039;s probably not a bad option for the major league bench, and Chen should have been able to get enough at-bats in Tacoma that keeping him wouldn&#039;t have been a total waste.  

It&#039;s not a big deal, and I probably made this post sound more negative about this than I am.  They&#039;re both basically replacement level guys, so losing one or the other isn&#039;t the end of the world.  I just don&#039;t happen to think Wilson&#039;s particularly interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m saying 1.5 WAR is Wilson&#8217;s upside, and I think he&#8217;s got about a 10% chance of being that good.  Math says I think Wilson&#8217;s value is like .15 WAR.  Basically, replacement level/non-prospect.  </p>
<p>Compare with Chen, who maybe has a 1.0 WAR upside, but has a 25% chance of making it.  That&#8217;d make him a .25 WAR value &#8211; still replacement level/non-prospect, but a shade better.  </p>
<p>As for Chen&#8217;s spot, I&#8217;d agree that he&#8217;s behind Valbuena/Hulett, but I&#8217;d argue that Hulett&#8217;s probably not a bad option for the major league bench, and Chen should have been able to get enough at-bats in Tacoma that keeping him wouldn&#8217;t have been a total waste.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a big deal, and I probably made this post sound more negative about this than I am.  They&#8217;re both basically replacement level guys, so losing one or the other isn&#8217;t the end of the world.  I just don&#8217;t happen to think Wilson&#8217;s particularly interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: marc w</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304855</link>
		<dc:creator>marc w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 22:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304855</guid>
		<description>Fine, 3 WAR is too much.  But even if his skills aren&#039;t up to Thames&#039;, he should be able to match at least 1.5 WAR due to the fact he doesn&#039;t have Thames&#039; ridiculous platoon splits.   
Thames is/was a better contact hitter, but through age 25, I think it&#039;s really, really close.  Wilson K&#039;d more often, but hits for better ISOs (so far); this advantage is partly due to park factors, so... it&#039;s close.   

Finally, if Wilson makes it and is 1.5, what are you envisioning for Chen?   There&#039;s no way he can play enough to really rack up wins, because he can&#039;t play CF/LF/SS.   Where do you think he might stand as a defender now that he&#039;s had major knee surgery?   
Putting Wilson aside, Chen seems like he&#039;d rank 4th or so on a list of potential bench players in the M&#039;s org in the high minors.   Agree/disagree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fine, 3 WAR is too much.  But even if his skills aren&#8217;t up to Thames&#8217;, he should be able to match at least 1.5 WAR due to the fact he doesn&#8217;t have Thames&#8217; ridiculous platoon splits.<br />
Thames is/was a better contact hitter, but through age 25, I think it&#8217;s really, really close.  Wilson K&#8217;d more often, but hits for better ISOs (so far); this advantage is partly due to park factors, so&#8230; it&#8217;s close.   </p>
<p>Finally, if Wilson makes it and is 1.5, what are you envisioning for Chen?   There&#8217;s no way he can play enough to really rack up wins, because he can&#8217;t play CF/LF/SS.   Where do you think he might stand as a defender now that he&#8217;s had major knee surgery?<br />
Putting Wilson aside, Chen seems like he&#8217;d rank 4th or so on a list of potential bench players in the M&#8217;s org in the high minors.   Agree/disagree?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304853</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304853</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d put Wilson&#039;s chances at being a 3 WAR player at 0.0%.  Beltre and Ichiro are 3-4 WAR players.  Wilson has no shot of ever being that good.

Marcus Thames isn&#039;t the worst comparison in the world, even though he&#039;s quite a bit better than Wilson, skill wise.  But Thames is like a 1.5 WAR player at best, and that&#039;s really Wilson&#039;s upside.  He&#039;s just not very good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d put Wilson&#8217;s chances at being a 3 WAR player at 0.0%.  Beltre and Ichiro are 3-4 WAR players.  Wilson has no shot of ever being that good.</p>
<p>Marcus Thames isn&#8217;t the worst comparison in the world, even though he&#8217;s quite a bit better than Wilson, skill wise.  But Thames is like a 1.5 WAR player at best, and that&#8217;s really Wilson&#8217;s upside.  He&#8217;s just not very good.</p>
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		<title>By: marc w</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304850</link>
		<dc:creator>marc w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 20:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304850</guid>
		<description>Well Dave, I think we agree on most of the facts, just not the conclusion.

I agree that Wilson is either a make-it-or-not guy, and that he&#039;s more of a long shot to become a long-term MLB player.   Still though, I&#039;d take a 10% chance of a 3 WAR player over a 40% chance of a 0.5 WAR player.   

Chen&#039;s skills seem to indicate he&#039;d be a decent bench player, but he simply doesn&#039;t have the positional flexibility to really add value.   He&#039;d be a better on-base threat than Willie Bloomquist, but there&#039;s simply no way he can play up the middle defense except at 2b.   The guy got to play multiple positions in Tacoma, but only going *the other way* on the defensive spectrum.  He can fill in at a corner IF spot, but then you&#039;ve got Chen&#039;s bat at a corner.  Again, this is a no-risk move for the A&#039;s to bet that his power will return after the long layoff.   But I&#039;m not betting on his defense returning after a year and a half layoff for knee and shoulder problems.   Hulett is a better bet to be a nifty bench player given that he&#039;s played SS and has more power/OBP potential.   Valbuena&#039;s simply a better player, and might be a potential starter down the line.   Chen can&#039;t compete with these two, and it&#039;s an open question whether he&#039;d be better as a bench guy than Navarro (Oswaldo&#039;s defense is much better, Chen&#039;s bat is much better).   

Meanwhile, Wilson&#039;s a long-shot, but I can see him turn into Marcus Thames or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Dave, I think we agree on most of the facts, just not the conclusion.</p>
<p>I agree that Wilson is either a make-it-or-not guy, and that he&#8217;s more of a long shot to become a long-term MLB player.   Still though, I&#8217;d take a 10% chance of a 3 WAR player over a 40% chance of a 0.5 WAR player.   </p>
<p>Chen&#8217;s skills seem to indicate he&#8217;d be a decent bench player, but he simply doesn&#8217;t have the positional flexibility to really add value.   He&#8217;d be a better on-base threat than Willie Bloomquist, but there&#8217;s simply no way he can play up the middle defense except at 2b.   The guy got to play multiple positions in Tacoma, but only going *the other way* on the defensive spectrum.  He can fill in at a corner IF spot, but then you&#8217;ve got Chen&#8217;s bat at a corner.  Again, this is a no-risk move for the A&#8217;s to bet that his power will return after the long layoff.   But I&#8217;m not betting on his defense returning after a year and a half layoff for knee and shoulder problems.   Hulett is a better bet to be a nifty bench player given that he&#8217;s played SS and has more power/OBP potential.   Valbuena&#8217;s simply a better player, and might be a potential starter down the line.   Chen can&#8217;t compete with these two, and it&#8217;s an open question whether he&#8217;d be better as a bench guy than Navarro (Oswaldo&#8217;s defense is much better, Chen&#8217;s bat is much better).   </p>
<p>Meanwhile, Wilson&#8217;s a long-shot, but I can see him turn into Marcus Thames or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304838</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304838</guid>
		<description>No, it doesn&#039;t.  

It has Wilson with slightly more potential, but further away from the majors.  A tad more reward, but more risk.  Wilson has almost no chance of being a decent role player in the majors - he&#039;s either going to make it or he&#039;s not, with no in between.   

Chen has a chance to be a nifty bench player.  If forced to pick between those two, I&#039;d take Chen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it doesn&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>It has Wilson with slightly more potential, but further away from the majors.  A tad more reward, but more risk.  Wilson has almost no chance of being a decent role player in the majors &#8211; he&#8217;s either going to make it or he&#8217;s not, with no in between.   </p>
<p>Chen has a chance to be a nifty bench player.  If forced to pick between those two, I&#8217;d take Chen.</p>
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		<title>By: DarkKnight1680</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304836</link>
		<dc:creator>DarkKnight1680</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304836</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to point out that your own future forty has Wilson as a better prospect than Chen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to point out that your own future forty has Wilson as a better prospect than Chen.</p>
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		<title>By: TheVanillaGorilla</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304809</link>
		<dc:creator>TheVanillaGorilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304809</guid>
		<description>Who will take the 40 man spots?  I assume Saunders and Gaby Hernandez.  Is there any one else that needs to be protected or will they save a couple spots for FA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who will take the 40 man spots?  I assume Saunders and Gaby Hernandez.  Is there any one else that needs to be protected or will they save a couple spots for FA?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304807</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304807</guid>
		<description>^Woods didn&#039;t have a spot here anyway.  Dickey is a more versatile swing-man, even though I don&#039;t like him much either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^Woods didn&#8217;t have a spot here anyway.  Dickey is a more versatile swing-man, even though I don&#8217;t like him much either.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304805</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304805</guid>
		<description>I see that along with Chun, &quot;Pitchers Jared Wells and Joe Woerman accepted assignments to the minors, but Jake Woods did not and became a free agent.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that along with Chun, &#8220;Pitchers Jared Wells and Joe Woerman accepted assignments to the minors, but Jake Woods did not and became a free agent.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/11/12/adios-yung-chi-chen/comment-page-1/#comment-304802</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 01:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6697#comment-304802</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Question: How much of current M’s policy is run by Zduriencik (sp?), and how much is run by Pelekoudas’s guys, who are still in place?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

what do you mean by policy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Question: How much of current M’s policy is run by Zduriencik (sp?), and how much is run by Pelekoudas’s guys, who are still in place?</p></blockquote>
<p>what do you mean by policy?</p>
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