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	<title>Comments on: Oh and Ibanez is gone</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306635</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306635</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Not to nitpick too much, but I would say that the A’s trade for Matt Holliday is significant. It worries me that they might be on the upswing again.&lt;/i&gt;

True enough.  I try not to think about the A&#039;s.  And I fear &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/30244?eref=fromSI&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they&#039;re not done&lt;/a&gt; spending money (though not for the re-treads Heyman proposes).  Figures -- the M&#039;s FO smartens up only to discover Beane now has money to spend....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Not to nitpick too much, but I would say that the A’s trade for Matt Holliday is significant. It worries me that they might be on the upswing again.</i></p>
<p>True enough.  I try not to think about the A&#8217;s.  And I fear <a href="http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/30244?eref=fromSI" rel="nofollow">they&#8217;re not done</a> spending money (though not for the re-treads Heyman proposes).  Figures &#8212; the M&#8217;s FO smartens up only to discover Beane now has money to spend&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: chimera</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306618</link>
		<dc:creator>chimera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306618</guid>
		<description>Nevermind, I found it &lt;a href=&quot;http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/31/prediction-contest-ibanezs-new-contract/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

I answered all 3 questions correctly (about the 30th post down the list). Will I still receive a lovely prize?

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevermind, I found it <a href="http://ussmariner.com/2007/12/31/prediction-contest-ibanezs-new-contract/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>I answered all 3 questions correctly (about the 30th post down the list). Will I still receive a lovely prize?</p>
<p> <img src='http://ussmariner.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: chimera</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306610</link>
		<dc:creator>chimera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:01:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306610</guid>
		<description>Earlier this year, wasn&#039;t there a thread betting the date when Ibanez would be resigned? Anyone have a link?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earlier this year, wasn&#8217;t there a thread betting the date when Ibanez would be resigned? Anyone have a link?</p>
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		<title>By: JoeintheClutch</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306550</link>
		<dc:creator>JoeintheClutch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 00:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306550</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And how many teams have done anything yet that you could point to that says “what a great move”? There have been zero significant signings/trades so far this offseason.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not to nitpick too much, but I would say that the A&#039;s trade for Matt Holliday is significant. It worries me that they might be on the upswing again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And how many teams have done anything yet that you could point to that says “what a great move”? There have been zero significant signings/trades so far this offseason.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not to nitpick too much, but I would say that the A&#8217;s trade for Matt Holliday is significant. It worries me that they might be on the upswing again.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Nelson</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306537</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306537</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Unfortunately for the M’s, his defensive weakness was speed, or complete lack thereof, which made it look to the casual observer (including a couple of recent Mariner managers) as if he was actually a good fielder because he caught the balls he could get to, and made plays that looked exciting on balls that another fielder would have caught easily. I call it the Carney Lansford syndrome.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When we lived in the Bay Area years ago I remember a game between Minnesota and the As near the end of the time when Canseco was playing for the As.  That was well into the time when Canseco had decided he didn&#039;t care about anything except for home runs.

The Twins clearly came into the game with a strategy to hit to right field as often as they could.  After about the fourth inning it was getting comical, and it was working.  My daughter had a gradeschool-girl crush on Canseco, and went ballistic when one of my sons and I started laughing every time the Twins hit a fly ball to right field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Unfortunately for the M’s, his defensive weakness was speed, or complete lack thereof, which made it look to the casual observer (including a couple of recent Mariner managers) as if he was actually a good fielder because he caught the balls he could get to, and made plays that looked exciting on balls that another fielder would have caught easily. I call it the Carney Lansford syndrome.</p></blockquote>
<p>When we lived in the Bay Area years ago I remember a game between Minnesota and the As near the end of the time when Canseco was playing for the As.  That was well into the time when Canseco had decided he didn&#8217;t care about anything except for home runs.</p>
<p>The Twins clearly came into the game with a strategy to hit to right field as often as they could.  After about the fourth inning it was getting comical, and it was working.  My daughter had a gradeschool-girl crush on Canseco, and went ballistic when one of my sons and I started laughing every time the Twins hit a fly ball to right field.</p>
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		<title>By: msb</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306536</link>
		<dc:creator>msb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306536</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I was (and in some ways still am) one of the biggest Vlad fans around (I was tooting his horn back when he was excelling in obscurity in Montreal) but remember that he went into free agency with ominous back problems that scared off a few teams.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and he had a very specific wish-list for where he settled, and apparently his idol Alfredo Griffin was a good salesman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I was (and in some ways still am) one of the biggest Vlad fans around (I was tooting his horn back when he was excelling in obscurity in Montreal) but remember that he went into free agency with ominous back problems that scared off a few teams.</p></blockquote>
<p>and he had a very specific wish-list for where he settled, and apparently his idol Alfredo Griffin was a good salesman.</p>
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		<title>By: joser</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306535</link>
		<dc:creator>joser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 23:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306535</guid>
		<description>I was (and in some ways still am) one of the biggest Vlad fans around (I was tooting his horn back when he was excelling in obscurity in Montreal) but remember that he went into free agency with ominous back problems that scared off a few teams.  While I was pretty sure he was worth the money the Angels (not the A&#039;s, but I know you know that -- I make that typo too) spent, he was by no means a completely sure thing at the time.

&lt;i&gt;What’s up with women and old bald guys, eh?&lt;/i&gt;

They often have money.

&lt;i&gt;Sorry, so far, I see nothing “yet” to get excited about…at least nothing I can point to that says, what a great move that is to shore up our pitching, or offense. &lt;/i&gt;

And how many teams have done &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; yet that you could point to that says &quot;what a great move&quot;?  There have been zero significant signings/trades so far this offseason.  That&#039;s likely to change soon with the winter meetings going on, and certainly the dominoes will start to fall once the top-of-the-market guys (Tex and CC) move, but I don&#039;t see a basis for criticism yet.  Zduriencik has only made little moves so far, yes, but so has everyone else, and his little moves have shown hints of sensible evaluation of both talent and value -- unlike the little moves made by, say, Bavasi (eg contrast the cost of Shelton+Branyan with Broussard+Perez).  Zdurencik could still screw the pooch with a major signing, of course, but all the signs so far are positive, not negative.  Nobody&#039;s trying to start a parade, but we&#039;re willing to give him the benefit of the doubt so far.

As I said before -- we&#039;ve just sat down at the table knowing the evening is going to consist of a 25 course meal (some of which will be leftovers).  We&#039;ve just picked up a couple of breadsticks, and people are complaining they haven&#039;t seen the dessert yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was (and in some ways still am) one of the biggest Vlad fans around (I was tooting his horn back when he was excelling in obscurity in Montreal) but remember that he went into free agency with ominous back problems that scared off a few teams.  While I was pretty sure he was worth the money the Angels (not the A&#8217;s, but I know you know that &#8212; I make that typo too) spent, he was by no means a completely sure thing at the time.</p>
<p><i>What’s up with women and old bald guys, eh?</i></p>
<p>They often have money.</p>
<p><i>Sorry, so far, I see nothing “yet” to get excited about…at least nothing I can point to that says, what a great move that is to shore up our pitching, or offense. </i></p>
<p>And how many teams have done <i>anything</i> yet that you could point to that says &#8220;what a great move&#8221;?  There have been zero significant signings/trades so far this offseason.  That&#8217;s likely to change soon with the winter meetings going on, and certainly the dominoes will start to fall once the top-of-the-market guys (Tex and CC) move, but I don&#8217;t see a basis for criticism yet.  Zduriencik has only made little moves so far, yes, but so has everyone else, and his little moves have shown hints of sensible evaluation of both talent and value &#8212; unlike the little moves made by, say, Bavasi (eg contrast the cost of Shelton+Branyan with Broussard+Perez).  Zdurencik could still screw the pooch with a major signing, of course, but all the signs so far are positive, not negative.  Nobody&#8217;s trying to start a parade, but we&#8217;re willing to give him the benefit of the doubt so far.</p>
<p>As I said before &#8212; we&#8217;ve just sat down at the table knowing the evening is going to consist of a 25 course meal (some of which will be leftovers).  We&#8217;ve just picked up a couple of breadsticks, and people are complaining they haven&#8217;t seen the dessert yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Kayline</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306533</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Kayline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306533</guid>
		<description>While Raul is an exemplary human being and a decent ballplayer, the only way he gets into the Hall of Fame is by buying a ticket.  

I apologize in advance for the lack of precision in my argument, but signing Raul was part of the unmaking of the Mariners following the 2003 season. Three linked decisions in the 2003-04 offseason doomed the franchise: releasing Mike Cameron, giving Carlos Guillen away to the Tigers for a bag of beans and choosing Raul over spending the kitchen sink on Vladimir Alvino Guerrero.  The Mariner brain trust choose to &quot;spread the money around&quot; and sign Raul, rather than spend for Vlad, a first ballot Hall of Famer.  I seem to remember that Raul&#039; new 2004 salary plus the savings on Kaz&#039;s salary plus $500,000 equalled what the A&#039;s paid Vlad when he was signed in January 2004.  Of course, there is no way to know if the Ms would have won that bidding war, but it would have been nice to find out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Raul is an exemplary human being and a decent ballplayer, the only way he gets into the Hall of Fame is by buying a ticket.  </p>
<p>I apologize in advance for the lack of precision in my argument, but signing Raul was part of the unmaking of the Mariners following the 2003 season. Three linked decisions in the 2003-04 offseason doomed the franchise: releasing Mike Cameron, giving Carlos Guillen away to the Tigers for a bag of beans and choosing Raul over spending the kitchen sink on Vladimir Alvino Guerrero.  The Mariner brain trust choose to &#8220;spread the money around&#8221; and sign Raul, rather than spend for Vlad, a first ballot Hall of Famer.  I seem to remember that Raul&#8217; new 2004 salary plus the savings on Kaz&#8217;s salary plus $500,000 equalled what the A&#8217;s paid Vlad when he was signed in January 2004.  Of course, there is no way to know if the Ms would have won that bidding war, but it would have been nice to find out.</p>
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		<title>By: lokiforever</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306532</link>
		<dc:creator>lokiforever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306532</guid>
		<description>While this is the right move, I&#039;ll be disappointed if Raul turns into a DH next year, or the year after for another club.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While this is the right move, I&#8217;ll be disappointed if Raul turns into a DH next year, or the year after for another club.</p>
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		<title>By: Breadbaker</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2008/12/08/oh-and-ibanez-is-gone/comment-page-1/#comment-306531</link>
		<dc:creator>Breadbaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 22:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=6843#comment-306531</guid>
		<description>I only disagree with PaulB in the sense that last year in particular there were an awful lot of routine balls hit to left that turned into doubles.  The word was out that Raul was moving so slowly that even a relatively slow runner could expect to turn a routine single into a stand up double.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only disagree with PaulB in the sense that last year in particular there were an awful lot of routine balls hit to left that turned into doubles.  The word was out that Raul was moving so slowly that even a relatively slow runner could expect to turn a routine single into a stand up double.</p>
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