Joser was joking that Z might build a no hit, all glove team as if it was bad just to make a point., but in all seriousness, if you had a team that could save 300 runs with the glove a year, but hit for 100 less, they would be just as good as an average fielding, 200 runs above average offensive team.

Yeah, but if the offense is 300 runs less, then it’s a wash. Though that STILL puts the advantage to the Mariners–younger, cheaper players.

Only scenario where it hurts is if the loss in the offense is larger than the gain in defense. Dave and other people think the gain in defense offsets the loss in offense. You can’t really disprove that by saying “you still got to score runs.” An anemic offense can still win if your pitching and defense makes the opposing offense even more anemic.

This still points up the rawness of defensive stats. People look at .750 and .800 OPS and feel comfortable with them. They look at the defensive stats and don’t feel comfortable–let alone looking at the resulting run differentials.

I don’t think you are acknowledging that they are equal. Saving ten runs with the glove is just as good as ten with the bat.

Joser was joking that Z might build a no hit, all glove team as if it was bad just to make a point., but in all seriousness, if you had a team that could save 300 runs with the glove a year, but hit for 100 less, they would be just as good as an average fielding, 200 runs above average offensive team.

This is what smart teams do.

When you stop trying to acquire good players, and start trying to acquire players who are good at a certain thing, you make bad choices.

Does this not apply here? Gutierrez is, for all intents and purposes, a defensive specialist with limited offensive upside.

hahahahaha I love it. Now we have to see if Raul can whip him in to shape.
Anyways Gutierrez is a good pickup even if he doesn’t hit that well his defense makes up for it. And I can see the deal working for the Indians w/out Chavez because Gutierrez isn’t even a starter for them.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081210&content_id=3712317&vkey=news_nym&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym&partnerId=rss_nym

The Mariners give up Putz, Green, and Reed and get Heilman, Chavez, Carp, and Gutierrez.

An OF of Chavez/Gutierrez/Ichiro would be one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. On the flip side, it would be the worst offensive outfield in baseball.

Combine that with sketchy infield defensive unit (aside from Beltre) that doesn’t contain true offensive clout and please explain how this team is going to be good?

If this is a precursor to something more to come, I may change my view, but as it sits now, it looks pretty bad to me.

Well, I guess his offensive approach of swing-at-anything, low-weight OBP, and disappointing production from a key offensive position (assuming he slots into either corner outfield spot) will be in line with the Mariners’ philosophy of the past few seasons. But at least the defense will be markedly improved.