Should They Just Waive Miguel Batista?
Heading into spring training, it seemed like the team had five right-handed relievers that were very likely to break camp with the team – Miguel Batista, Tyler Walker, Mark Lowe, Roy Corcoran, and David Aardsma. Which roles they were going to be given was up for grabs, but it seemed pretty likely that these guys were going to be the RH portion of the bullpen, in some way, shape, or form.
Since then, however, the team has signed last summer’s first round pick Josh Fields, brought Chad Cordero into the fold, claimed out-of-options Jesus Delgado on waivers from the Marlins, and been impressed with what youngster Shawn Kelley has shown in spring training. Fields and Cordero aren’t candidates to make the team out of spring training, but there’s a chance that either of them could show enough to force their way onto the club come this summer. If the M’s like what they see from Delgado the next few weeks, they have to keep him on the major league roster or put him back on waivers. And Kelley, with his 0/9 BB/K, is just continuing to show an ability to miss bats while throwing strikes.
So, all of the sudden, the picture is a lot more crowded. At this point, we need to ask whether Miguel Batista fits in with what the Mariners are doing this year. While he still throws hard and has experience as a closer, keeping Batista likely means losing Delgado, and the team would still have to figure out who to toss overboard if/when Cordero/Fields/Kelley are deemed ready for the majors. Of the original five expected to make up the bullpen, Batista’s the one who doesn’t have a future with this club. At 38 and in the final year of his contract, he won’t be back with the team after 2009, and if he pitches well in relief, he’d only be accelerating his exit.
The only reason to keep Batista around would be if you thought he could succeed to the point that he’d create enough value that someone would agree to trade for him without requiring the Mariners to pick up his entire salary. But what’s Batista’s absolute best case scenario value? $2 million for a full year, maybe? So you carry him for three months, hope he pitches well, and if he does, you might be able to get a contender to pick up $1 million of his remaining salary at the deadlilne. That’s the upside? Best case scenario, you save $1 million. And there’s probably like a 20% chance of him pitching that well?
Meanwhile, if you reserve the roster spot to give Jesus Delgado a chance to make use of his live arm, there’s some small chance that you’ll get a young, league minimum reliever out of the deal. And if he doesn’t figure it out, you now have a roster spot for Cordero, Kelley, or Fields. Unlike with keeping Batista, there’s actual upside to the roster spot at that point, and given the low leverage nature of the innings that the roster spot will probably be pitching in, it won’t make a huge difference in terms of wins and losses.
Or, if it helps, look at this way – you can trade Miguel Batista for Jesus Delgado right now, but you have to pick up all of Batista’s salary. Do you make that trade? It’s not likely you’re going to get a better offer for him this summer, after all.
The M’s just have too many live arms with some upside in camp to keep Batista for a shot at saving a little bit of money this summer. The roster spot is more valuable than what Batista can offer. Cut him loose.
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I agree about the bullpen, though my biggest concern is with the way the back-end of the rotation has performed this Spring. It might be in our best interest to demote Rowland-Smith and Olson at the start of the year and open the season with Batista in the fifth slot until Morrow is healthy and ready. I agree we’ve got to get rid of him sooner than later, but more than anything, I’d let Morrow’s health be the dictator of the decision. Olson’s not ready yet, Rowland-Smith has looked awful and his velocity is down, and Morrow hasn’t shown us a healthy outing yet. Batista could still be used as a health guard to start the season, and then we could jettison him once one of those guys is ready to take over the #5 spot.
All of this is moot if Morrow somehow gets healthy real fast, though. At that point, I agree with waiving Batista completely.
I couldn’t agree more. Miguel is average at best with minimal upside. Besides, I’m sure he would love to just call it quits and write the sequel to his incendiary crime thriller.
Lowe has not performed all that well either. If he has options, could he start the season in Tacoma?
Dave, I assume that you now think the M’s will carry 12 pitchers. I can’t see the M’s carrying less than two lefties in the ‘pen.
Batista is truly awful. Don’t use him as a starter
Maybe he’ll figure some secret technique like last season. Maybe how to not throw balls while taking 30 seconds in between pitches.
He is a versatile and durable arm. I’d keep him to start the season and go from there.
I don’t really care about spring training performances. I certainly wouldn’t make decisions based on them.
Yes, with Morrow’s health up in the air, I have to think the M’s go with 12 pitchers to start the season.
Yes, cut him loose–unless we need a staff novelist. I don’t think it’s worth keeping him around for an extended audition at the Major League level. He may not be ‘done’ yet, he just is done for us.
Any chance a team reaches the end of spring with pitching needs because of injuries (either starter or reliever) and would take Batista off our hands? Do we have any hope that a team might be interested in him because of his flexibility to start or come out the pen?
I’ve wanted him gone for no other reason then that watching him pitch is unbearable– now that there’s a logical reason to do it…
If they release Batista and some other team picks him up for the minimum (which is all they’d have to pay him since the Mariners are on the hook for his contract), do they at least save the league minimum salary that the other team is paying? Or does he get whatever the second team pays as gravy?
Dave, thanks for your comment at 10:49. I was about to say the same thing. I hate it when people get all agitated about a couple of spring outings, either good or bad. And nothing annoys me more than the perception that that last spot on the roster comes down to what happens in that final spring at-bat. “If he doesn’t get this guy out, he doesn’t make the squad; they’ll be forced to take X instead, after that really great pitch he threw” — huh?
My guess is that Morrow starts the year on the DL, letting the team keep one of the extra bullpen guys around for a few weeks in an extended tryout. Then once Morrow is ready to go, after a start or two in Tacoma, they cut Batista loose.
Speaking of Kelley, Larry Stone has some nice bits of an interview with him.
Waive Batista? I’m on board with that idea.
We’re just steady piling up whatever arms Zduriencik can find lying around. It’s looking more and more like Batista is getting in the way. Not sure where else we can put him (well, anywhere that would be considered productive anyway).
I agree. He’s already a sunk cost — no reason to pile sunk performance on top of that. That’s just throwing bad innings after bad money.
I don’t think spring training results matter, but I think spring training performances do. At least for pitchers, if a pitcher, towards the end of the spring is having volocity problems, can’t find the strike zone, etc. That’s a should be taken into account. If they’re just getting hit hard, or they’re they’re giving up walks on deep counts, then no big deal.
The M’s just have too many live arms with some upside in camp to keep Batista for a shot at saving a little bit of money this summer. The roster spot is more valuable than what Batista can offer. Cut him loose.
Couldn’t agree more and can’t be said any better.
C’mon. As a bullpen arm, who is Bastista blocking, really? I mean, whose progress demands that they’re on the major-league roster on opening day? Besides, Miguel is a handy spot-starter. Bedard and Morrow are ailing, and it’s anyone’s guess how Silva and Felix will respond after the WBC.
I think Miguel should be Chuck Armstrong’s special “trade” project. Maybe he’ll start the season on the hot side of a streak instead of the other way around.
As a bullpen arm, who is Bastista blocking, really?
Jesus Delgado. Did you read the post?
Aw, c’mon, Dave. He’s an unemployed Cub fan. And it’s only three days after St. Patrick’s Day. He’s probably still drunk.
(I’m going to hell for this post, aren’t I?)
Ticket for 1 please.
Chuck’s probably on the phone right now with Detroit asking them about Dontrelle Willis. He’s only 27 and has two more years left on his contract. If that falls thru, then his fallback position is Washburn for Jason Schmidt or Carlos Silva for Barry Zito.
There are deals out there to be had, but we don’t want Armstrong making them.
Yes. Enough already.
This should be the case study taught for teaching the phrase “sunk cost”.
Time to cut bait.
Good post Dave. If Bavasi was still in charge there is no way this would or could be done, but with Jack Z at the helm there is a chance. It will be interesting to see how this proceeds.
I like how Jack has acquired cheap arms and has demonstrated enough to keep my interest up…even if the M’s suck at least I think they have a chance to improve with a smart front office.
All I really want is a front office committed to both improving the club, and having the “smarts” to make it happen….why didn’t they sign Doyle?
Ok, I rarely post, But I have been reading for about 2 years now. I have learned alot and enjoy all the subject matter.
I for one will jump for joy to see Batista sent packing. And see his spot on the 40man roster used to shelter a pitcher with a future.
Yet, I am struggling to put my mind arround how Wak is going to Manage this pen. No real closer with alot of experience, and seriously no stopper other then Lowe. There just is not alot of depth to this pen. All this talk about live arms and kids with up side? Ok that is great but we still need atleast 3 arms in the pen that can get high leverage outs on a daily basis. On the days pitchers do not have their best stuff, they still need to be able to pitch and get outs. JJ, Green, and Sherril could do that. I do not see anyone at this point that has that ability other then Morrow. Am I being to pessimistic here?
It might be premature to waive Batista. Apparently Mark Lowe has been dealing with type 2 diabetes since sometime last year linkage. With Morrow dealing with his forearm, Lowe’s situation (they haven’t found the right balance yet), and no one exactly excelling in the closer fight, maybe, and I’m not saying I like the idea, but maybe keeping Miguel around for a bit wouldn’t be all bad. He’s going to be paid by the M’s one way or another, so getting some early use out of him may not be a bad thing.
I do not see anyone at this point that has that ability other then Morrow. Am I being to pessimistic here?
A bit. Coming out of the bullpen, properly used, has huge advantages. Pitchers won’t have to face bad handedness splits, and they can throw as hard as possible because they’ll probably be pulled quickly.
You quote JJ as being able to get outs…think about 05. Did you think, at that point, he was worth anything? We have a bunch of guys who may be the 05/06 Putz, or not. And we’re going to be bad enough it doesn’t matter if we give them a chance to suck, or put it together and be worth trading for something shiny.
Shiny!
Mike Snow:
The Mariners save whatever is the prorated portion of minimum salary.
The concept that is at work here is that any money paid by his new team offsets payments from the Mariners. Since any player on a MLB roster has to receive minimum pay, that’s what he gets from his new team and that the amount that the Mariners save.
If a team were to pay him more than league minimum, then that amount over minimum salary would further offset pay from the Mariners; i.e., Batista wouldn’t clear any more money. That’s why there will almost never be a bidding war for the services of a player who has been released while still being paid on a MLB contract. The player will get the same amount of money no matter where he signs, so if he has multiple offers he simply takes the one appeals to him most.
I think this is a good test for the new management, the anti-Washburn-waiver-deal. It makes no sense to keep someone like Batista around when he’s already proven he can’t pitch, when you have options that can pitch, or might pitch. You either understand the theory of sunk costs or you don’t; you don’t keep hoping that the guy will “turn it around” unless you have some reason to believe that’s the case. 39 year olds who like to be vocal to the media about their belief, in the face of all evidence, that they should be starting regularly, are not worth having on your club.
I sure did. You and I differ in our opinion of Delgado (age 24 … perhaps) being MLB-ready. He’s a AA-AAA arm until he learns how to find the plate. Did you ever see him at Carolina, Dave?
Even so, he’s unlikely to be significantly worse than Batista — and unlike Batista, he has a future.