Comments on: The Clement Problem

By: eponymous coward

eponymous coward — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:01:23 +0000

I just think it’s still a bit early to annoint Clement a flop and ship him off. Just seems too much like something regimes of the past would have done.

Sending Clement to 1B or another organization isn’t labeling him a flop; it’s evaluating his defensive talent as a C and going “we just don’t think this is going to work long-term”. Certainly Clement has value as a prospect even if he’s not a C… it’s just he’s more like Lyle Overbay than Joe Mauer.

By: Mid80sRighty

Mid80sRighty — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:59:06 +0000

Why is everyone so quick to cast developing players aside? Maybe it’s because we live in a microwave society. Anyway, Clement had 224 PA last year and we all know what he did. But, I’d like to point out that one of the best hitters in baseball didn’t start off too hot either. Through 2 years Alex Rodriguez had 208 PA in which he totaled up 62 K’s, 9 BB, 5 HR, and ~.600 OPS. Don’t get me wrong, though, I’m not trying to compare the two. Mearly trying to illustrate that even the best hitters in baseball can struggle early in their careers. I just think it’s still a bit early to annoint Clement a flop and ship him off. Just seems too much like something regimes of the past would have done.

By: Tuomas

Tuomas — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 02:18:54 +0000

Clement wasn’t drafted, I think, for immediate need. He was drafted because his offensive upside at a premium defensive position made him a very valuable piece. Unfortunately, his defensive skills haven’t developed quite as well as the team thought they might have, putting them in their current predicament.

By: slescotts

slescotts — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:36:50 +0000

I don’t know this is starting to look like a bad draft and poor development/management.

We drafted for immediate need then signed Joh. I didn’t really get it then, especially with the level of talent available in that draft.

I don’t want to close the book on this guy just yet. I say we forget about him as a catcher and make him a hitter. Give him AB’s @ C/DH/1B.

By: sass

sass — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:03:16 +0000

Edit: The above post uses the highest projection, not the middle one. It is still fairly representative, though, and most of what I say holds true, just to a lesser degree.

By: sass

sass — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:57:26 +0000

Oliver has Clement projected this year at .341 wOBA. I picked this one because it’s in the middle, others are better or a bit worse. This is 5.5 runs above average over 600 ab’s (I hope I’m doing this right). If you knock him a bit for defense, it might come out that he’s projected to be a very slightly above league average hitter. Which, with the positional adjustment (12.5), would make him a 1.5ish wins above average. However, since Dave says in his fangraphs post here, there is a 1.5 win gap between replacement level catchers and major league average players. That would put him at 3 WAR for 600 AB’s, though he wouldn’t ever get that even if he was the full-time catcher for the whole season. Dave put’s Adam Moore’s peak WAR at 2.5 in his latest future forty, though, and it is reasonable to assume that Clement will improve even more at the plate. Clement, as a catcher, this year, projects as well or better than Adam Moore’s peak. That’s why it’s so valuable to try to keep him there if possible. He’s be worth half the WAR at first base, even assuming he did a passable job there defensively.

By: Paul B

Paul B — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 16:48:37 +0000

Is there even the slightest chance that the 3 year contract for Johjima was to allow him to leave baseball with dignity and honor (and some nice cash)?????

No.

HTH.

By: SonOfZavaras

SonOfZavaras — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 13:19:47 +0000

Fine, Dave. Clement is a better offensive prospect than Adam Moore.

But come 2011 or even 2010, it’ll be Moore behind the plate and Clement will be either part-time both DHing and catching, trying to learn first base or be with another organization.

Perchance, do you know the projected peak WAR of both players?

By: jjracoon

jjracoon — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:12:12 +0000

Every step the Mariners have made over the last couple years, except signing Johjima to a 3 year deal, indicates they still believe in Clement as a catcher. The spots that we see him at, DH and 1st, have a logjam of potential bodies which already show the talent to hit. Is there even the slightest chance that the 3 year contract for Johjima was to allow him to leave baseball with dignity and honor (and some nice cash)????? To me this is the year to have Clement catch as much as his body will allow NOT let it carry over into next year decision making. Option#1 or use him with one of our weighty pitchers to get something and move on!!

By: TomTuttle

TomTuttle — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 06:16:12 +0000

Option #1, PLEASE!!!!!!!