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	<title>Comments on: Lots Of News: Morrow, Clement, Walker</title>
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	<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/</link>
	<description>Seattle Mariners and general baseball discussion with David Cameron and Derek Zumsteg</description>
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		<title>By: eponymous coward</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316651</link>
		<dc:creator>eponymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316651</guid>
		<description>Hough as a knuckleballer isn&#039;t a great analogy (and I don&#039;t think he was ever a top-of-rotation starter or great relief ace- he&#039;s more like Tim Wakefield). Derek Lowe I&#039;d give you (though he was a starter coming up). Maybe that&#039;s what we can hope for...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hough as a knuckleballer isn&#8217;t a great analogy (and I don&#8217;t think he was ever a top-of-rotation starter or great relief ace- he&#8217;s more like Tim Wakefield). Derek Lowe I&#8217;d give you (though he was a starter coming up). Maybe that&#8217;s what we can hope for&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: scott19</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316644</link>
		<dc:creator>scott19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 01:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316644</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’ve never really seen it go the other way (ace reliever into top of rotation starter) in the modern era (with the exception of guys like Eckersley or Smoltz who were quality starters to begin with)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

EC -- Not to be too nitpicky here, but Charlie Hough (albeit a knuckleballer) and Derek Lowe also both come to mind in that handful of guys who were able to make a successful transition from a set-up/closer role to starter.  

You&#039;re right, though, there weren&#039;t as many guys going in that direction...though I&#039;ve wondered once or twice myself if &quot;The Goose&quot; (who threw 200+ innings out of the rotation in 1976) might not have gotten a second look in that role had he not been such a hard-luck starter on a mediocre Chisox team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’ve never really seen it go the other way (ace reliever into top of rotation starter) in the modern era (with the exception of guys like Eckersley or Smoltz who were quality starters to begin with)</p></blockquote>
<p>EC &#8212; Not to be too nitpicky here, but Charlie Hough (albeit a knuckleballer) and Derek Lowe also both come to mind in that handful of guys who were able to make a successful transition from a set-up/closer role to starter.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, though, there weren&#8217;t as many guys going in that direction&#8230;though I&#8217;ve wondered once or twice myself if &#8220;The Goose&#8221; (who threw 200+ innings out of the rotation in 1976) might not have gotten a second look in that role had he not been such a hard-luck starter on a mediocre Chisox team.</p>
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		<title>By: eponymous coward</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316618</link>
		<dc:creator>eponymous coward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 21:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316618</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Teams are still overvaluing the closer role, and a closer is likely to get paid more than a #3 starter, which is basically Morrow’s upside, here.&lt;/em&gt;

Go look at the salaries for the following players:

Gil Meche
Jarrod Washburn
Carlos Silva
Mariano Rivera

It&#039;s pretty obvious that Rivera is miles above those other guys as a pitcher- I think you can make a case that Mariano Rivera is the best stopper ever, given his incredible consistency through his career- but he&#039;s sure not PAID like it.

Now, granted, the market for mediocre starting pitching is adjusting a bit from a few years ago, but then the other side of the coin is that Mariano Rivera is something like the 99.99% projection for Brandon Morrow- the more typical career for a good-but-not-HOF closer is someone like, say, Troy Percival (who, BTW, has never made more than 8 million per year). The fact of the matter is that relief aces who throw 80 IP in late inning situations are more fungible than starters who throw 200 IP- since you can convert a failed starter with a good fastball + one offspeed pitch to relief ace, but I&#039;ve never really seen it go the other way (ace reliever into top of rotation starter) in the modern era (with the exception of guys like Eckersley or Smoltz who were quality starters to begin with). In fact, Goose Gossage and Rollie Fingers, HOF relief aces of recent vintage, didn&#039;t do much as starting pitchers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Teams are still overvaluing the closer role, and a closer is likely to get paid more than a #3 starter, which is basically Morrow’s upside, here.</em></p>
<p>Go look at the salaries for the following players:</p>
<p>Gil Meche<br />
Jarrod Washburn<br />
Carlos Silva<br />
Mariano Rivera</p>
<p>It&#8217;s pretty obvious that Rivera is miles above those other guys as a pitcher- I think you can make a case that Mariano Rivera is the best stopper ever, given his incredible consistency through his career- but he&#8217;s sure not PAID like it.</p>
<p>Now, granted, the market for mediocre starting pitching is adjusting a bit from a few years ago, but then the other side of the coin is that Mariano Rivera is something like the 99.99% projection for Brandon Morrow- the more typical career for a good-but-not-HOF closer is someone like, say, Troy Percival (who, BTW, has never made more than 8 million per year). The fact of the matter is that relief aces who throw 80 IP in late inning situations are more fungible than starters who throw 200 IP- since you can convert a failed starter with a good fastball + one offspeed pitch to relief ace, but I&#8217;ve never really seen it go the other way (ace reliever into top of rotation starter) in the modern era (with the exception of guys like Eckersley or Smoltz who were quality starters to begin with). In fact, Goose Gossage and Rollie Fingers, HOF relief aces of recent vintage, didn&#8217;t do much as starting pitchers.</p>
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		<title>By: sass</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316582</link>
		<dc:creator>sass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316582</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it possible that Morrow made this choice from a financial standpoint?  Teams are still overvaluing the closer role, and a closer is likely to get paid more than a #3 starter, which is basically Morrow&#039;s upside, here.  I think we all agree he can be a pretty lights out closer, the way his fastball moves, if he can keep people off of the basepaths (walks, that is).  It could just be a realization by Morrow that if he wants to be an all-star, he&#039;ll have to close, because he&#039;ll never be Felix.  Or am I way off-base here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it possible that Morrow made this choice from a financial standpoint?  Teams are still overvaluing the closer role, and a closer is likely to get paid more than a #3 starter, which is basically Morrow&#8217;s upside, here.  I think we all agree he can be a pretty lights out closer, the way his fastball moves, if he can keep people off of the basepaths (walks, that is).  It could just be a realization by Morrow that if he wants to be an all-star, he&#8217;ll have to close, because he&#8217;ll never be Felix.  Or am I way off-base here?</p>
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		<title>By: DMZ</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316579</link>
		<dc:creator>DMZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316579</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not seeing anyone insist that Morrow play despite legitimate health concerns -- in fact, the only thing I read about that was sympathy. Or even much insistence that he be forced to start.

I understand the sentiment in defending him, but I don&#039;t know what you&#039;re reacting so strongly to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not seeing anyone insist that Morrow play despite legitimate health concerns &#8212; in fact, the only thing I read about that was sympathy. Or even much insistence that he be forced to start.</p>
<p>I understand the sentiment in defending him, but I don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re reacting so strongly to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316577</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No apologies necessary, and (even with my reservations about his mechanics and ability to have a long career) I&#039;d obviously rather have Lincecum than Morrow after yesterday&#039;s news; but at the time of that draft, there were plenty of people that liked Morrow BETTER than Lincecum, and I don&#039;t think anyone would&#039;ve told you at the time that Lincecum&#039;s successes as of 2009 would be so much more impressive than Morrow&#039;s.

At the time, Morrow was a good pick. Maybe not the best pick, but calling taking him over Lincecum &quot;epic fail&quot; like someone did earlier in the comments here is pretty silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No apologies necessary, and (even with my reservations about his mechanics and ability to have a long career) I&#8217;d obviously rather have Lincecum than Morrow after yesterday&#8217;s news; but at the time of that draft, there were plenty of people that liked Morrow BETTER than Lincecum, and I don&#8217;t think anyone would&#8217;ve told you at the time that Lincecum&#8217;s successes as of 2009 would be so much more impressive than Morrow&#8217;s.</p>
<p>At the time, Morrow was a good pick. Maybe not the best pick, but calling taking him over Lincecum &#8220;epic fail&#8221; like someone did earlier in the comments here is pretty silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Edman</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316576</link>
		<dc:creator>Edman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 19:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Shame on some of you. Actually insisting that the Mariners should tell Brandon to be a starter, and disregard his Type I diabetes. Do you know how serious a condition he has? This isn&#039;t Type II diabetes, which many Americans suffer from. Yet, some of you treat it like it&#039;s something he can just get over. Wake up. This is a potentially life threatening condition. Brandon isn&#039;t making this decision to spite you or the organization. He&#039;s being honest with himself about what he can do, and what he feels he cannot. HE is the only one who knows, none of you do.

Let&#039;s say it was you with his condition. You have to work long hours and wear down easily. Constantly wearing an insulin pump and pricking your finger several times a day, just to be sure your blood sugars are correct. You go to your boss and tell him/her that the workload is too hard on you. And, his reply is, &quot;I don&#039;t care, do what I tell you or get out.&quot;

That&#039;s exactly what some of you expect. Grow up and get over the &quot;wahhhh, I want Morrow to the a starter&quot; montra. He&#039;s doing what he feels is best for himself and the organization. Respect his decision.

Really, shame on some of you. This isn&#039;t some game to him. This is his life. Imagine had the Red Sox told Jon Lester to worry about his cancer, when it&#039;s more suited to the clubs needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shame on some of you. Actually insisting that the Mariners should tell Brandon to be a starter, and disregard his Type I diabetes. Do you know how serious a condition he has? This isn&#8217;t Type II diabetes, which many Americans suffer from. Yet, some of you treat it like it&#8217;s something he can just get over. Wake up. This is a potentially life threatening condition. Brandon isn&#8217;t making this decision to spite you or the organization. He&#8217;s being honest with himself about what he can do, and what he feels he cannot. HE is the only one who knows, none of you do.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say it was you with his condition. You have to work long hours and wear down easily. Constantly wearing an insulin pump and pricking your finger several times a day, just to be sure your blood sugars are correct. You go to your boss and tell him/her that the workload is too hard on you. And, his reply is, &#8220;I don&#8217;t care, do what I tell you or get out.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s exactly what some of you expect. Grow up and get over the &#8220;wahhhh, I want Morrow to the a starter&#8221; montra. He&#8217;s doing what he feels is best for himself and the organization. Respect his decision.</p>
<p>Really, shame on some of you. This isn&#8217;t some game to him. This is his life. Imagine had the Red Sox told Jon Lester to worry about his cancer, when it&#8217;s more suited to the clubs needs.</p>
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		<title>By: coasty141</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316574</link>
		<dc:creator>coasty141</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Fair enough. First hand knowledge is better than what I&#039;m bring to the table. My apologies Jeff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough. First hand knowledge is better than what I&#8217;m bring to the table. My apologies Jeff.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Nye</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316572</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Nye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316572</guid>
		<description>I think that Morrow was viewed as being able to do either, but that the org saw that his potential would probably be better fulfilled as a starter, the same as we all did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Morrow was viewed as being able to do either, but that the org saw that his potential would probably be better fulfilled as a starter, the same as we all did.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://ussmariner.com/2009/03/29/lots-of-news-morrow-clement-walker/comment-page-2/#comment-316571</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ussmariner.com/?p=7591#comment-316571</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve talked to Fontaine about the Morrow situation at length.  We don&#039;t have to guess at their intent when they drafted him.  We know what it was.

They saw him as a starter who could move to relief if starting didn&#039;t work out.  They did not draft him to be a reliever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve talked to Fontaine about the Morrow situation at length.  We don&#8217;t have to guess at their intent when they drafted him.  We know what it was.</p>
<p>They saw him as a starter who could move to relief if starting didn&#8217;t work out.  They did not draft him to be a reliever.</p>
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