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Dave On 710ESPN
Dave · July 27, 2009 at 12:22 pm · Filed Under Mariners
I’ll be on with Mike Salk and Brock Huard at 1:10 pm, talking trade deadline and weekend collapses. Feel free to tune in.
Tune in from 11am-3pm daily and hear Salk say, “Hey man” a couple hundred times. Awesome.
joser on
July 27th, 2009 12:56 pm
Cool, I shall listen.
One thing I’ve been wondering, in light of recent events, is how close the team is to contention next year. It didn’t take a lot to get them tantalizingly close this year, but they also were playing over their heads and had the benefit of a weak division (particularly with the Angels’ many early injuries). But how close are they really? Texas appears to have financial issues; the A’s are rebuilding but have a lot of question marks. The Angels — even accepting that they aren’t as good as they have been recently (as their 53-44 Pytag suggests) — are still and again the class of the division. They do have several key contracts expiring (Lackey, Guerrero, Figgins, plus Abreu who has been valuable if not exactly key) but that’s unlikely to make them a lot weaker unless they make huge mistakes in the offseason and/or they have prospects flame out.
So if we assume that an 89-96 win Angel team (depending on whether you believe in their Pythag or their actual record) sets the bar, how possible is it to get there by ’10?. Some seem to think the team is “a long way — at least two or three years — from being a perennial contender in the AL.” While I’m glad to see the media pushing patience (and suggesting the construction of a “perennial” contender) rather than pounding the “trade all the kids to win now” drum, that seems unjustifiably pessimistic. Or is that just the fan in me talking?
(And yeah, I know I shouldn’t be reading Kelley — it was an accident, honest)
JMK on
July 27th, 2009 1:00 pm
Dave, can you please explain to Mike Salk that Hardy > Washburn. He’s seems to think Wash is locked here longer than Hardy would be. Crazy talk…
kenshabby on
July 27th, 2009 1:15 pm
So Huard thinks Detroit might trade Porcello for Washburn? Urk.
And now we’ve got a “chemistry” caller. Who thinks Betancourt was a “great defender”.
jordan on
July 27th, 2009 1:18 pm
Haha, that “chemistry” guy got torn apart. That was quite funny.
ErikG803 on
July 27th, 2009 1:18 pm
Wow, Mike Salk destroyed that guy. What a terrible call, though.
Dave announces threatens to dance naked if the M’s get Hardy for Washburn.
mlathrop3 on
July 27th, 2009 1:25 pm
Agree with Dave, finding a consistent pitcher vs. a 27 year-old shortstop in his prime are totally different value propositions.
msb on
July 27th, 2009 1:29 pm
Tune in from 11am-3pm daily and hear Salk say, “Hey man†a couple hundred times. Awesome.
Finally some callers are starting to “Hey Man” him back.
jordan on
July 27th, 2009 1:33 pm
Good job.
I have a question though. You say that there is no chance we get Escobar, but what do you think the chances of the M’s trading more than Washburn to make a push for Escobar? Like Washburn, Clement, and a young SP or something?
msb on
July 27th, 2009 1:38 pm
Sadly, Dave didn’t convince them.
jordan on
July 27th, 2009 1:39 pm
Honestly, If we trade Washburn, I think that RRS can step in and take his spot, and do it just as well.
Liam on
July 27th, 2009 1:41 pm
I can certainly see why Salk said that Dave had a convincing argument when their last caller talked about Betancourt’s great defence, wanted Pat Gillick back and for Jack Zduriencik to stop replacing injured players and just let Don Wakamatsu manage.
msb on
July 27th, 2009 1:42 pm
Gosh, I’m glad I tuned in late.
Marinerman1979 on
July 27th, 2009 1:42 pm
LOL…Salk honestly thinks that filling out your roster in a typical fashion is a good idea. lets just for get the advantages of having a plus bat at shortstop.
I’m really hoping that Salk is just trying to play devil’s advocate. His argument that Hardy would only be here for one more year is complete garbage. He’s valuing pitching more heavily than hitting. That and he acts like it’s easy to just go out and acquire better hitters at every position like they’re out there for the taking.
Nice job Dave. Anyone who thinks we should keep Washburn based on this year alone (and not the previous 3 years of his terrible contract) is not a fan of this team.
Red Apple on
July 27th, 2009 1:51 pm
And better hitters with a current UZR that flirts with double digits, to boot.
Liam, the caller that was on before Dave was worse than listening to someone run their fingernails across the chalkboard. He actually believed that Yuni was good defensively. It was painful to listen to. And he wanted Gillick back. Why? So he could destroy our team for the future again? Ugh. We should thank our lucky stars that we have Z. Building for now and the future.
gwangung on
July 27th, 2009 2:01 pm
His argument that Hardy would only be here for one more year is complete garbage.
In the near and short term, I’m not sure there’s a better SS out there—and anything internal is years away….
I would think to get him for just those years would be beneficial to getting him in 2011.
joser on
July 27th, 2009 2:04 pm
“Jarrod Washburn is Pets.com at $140 a share. Sell! Sell!”
Personally, the numbers have somewhat convinced me that Washburn is a slightly different and better pitcher this year (who is also being helped enormously by his defense, as predicted). But I have no confidence that will continue, or that aging Won’t take more away than his tweaking or increasing craftierness (yes, I wrote that) might supply.
Regardless of that (and it’s certainly open to debate) I don’t think anyone can dispute his value is at the highest it has been during his entire career with the Mariners (which of course is there’s a sentiment to hang onto him via an extension). But the M’s are not contenders this year, alas, and other teams are… teams that need pitching. Thus however valuable you might think Washburn might be to the M’s in the future, he’s more valuable to some other team now. You should try to extract that value, now, rather than risk seeing it wither on the vine. Dave’s analogy is a good one: the way you get rich is not just by investing intelligently, it’s by getting out of those investments intelligently. Ride them up, but don’t ride them down; sell them high and buy low on the Next Big Thing. If you find yourself with a laggard stock that’s suddenly seeing some life, don’t fall in love with it expecting it to keep climbing. Washburn has (finally) been good for the Mariners this year; now, thank him and cash him in.
Adam B. on
July 27th, 2009 2:08 pm
I don’t get the “Hardy would only be here for one more year.” argument?
How much more of a lock is Washburn to return after THIS year, and does the difference in their potentially re-signing negate the difference in talent levels?
I think not.
joser on
July 27th, 2009 2:14 pm
And he wanted Gillick back. Why? So he could destroy our team for the future again?
Well, Gillick seems to specialize in that “sell the future to win it all today” strategy, and it’s worked for him in Toronto and Phillie. But it failed in Seattle (alas). And the downside is that he then moves on, leaving the team’s farm barren and somebody else to clean up the wreckage. The M’s might go all the way under Gillick, but it’s too soon to bring him back: they’re still recovering from his last regime.
We’re still recovering from Bavasi. Gillick did fine. He put the M’s in the record books and gave us Ichiro.
Adam B. on
July 27th, 2009 3:10 pm
Gillick was a wash.
He’s excellent at pushing teams into the playoffs for a couple of years, then departing as those same teams turn into smoldering piles of aged debris.
Just look at his drafts for an explanation as to why that might be.
joser on
July 27th, 2009 3:38 pm
Bavasi would’ve been a disaster regardless, but Gillick did him no favors. And yeah, as Adam B says, just look at the draft — especially the picks he didn’t have because he didn’t value them and didn’t care if other teams took them in compensation. Bavasi built a house of crap, but the building site was short on supplies too.
diderot on
July 27th, 2009 4:14 pm
Gillick did fine. He put the M’s in the record books and gave us Ichiro.
Gillick had nothing to do with the decision to bring Ichiro here.
Oly Rainiers Fan on
July 27th, 2009 4:27 pm
Gillick brought us to 116 wins, and but for a terrorist attack, we would have gone to the world series.
Perhaps more importantly, Gillick brought us Bob Engle, who has paid off for this organization more than any single draft pick or free agent signing possible.
FWIW, neither Jeff Clement nor Jerry Owens were in the Rainiers lineup today, and I didn’t see them in the dugout either – but they could have just had the day off. Clement’s average has been taking such a dive (he was at .212 yesterday and falling) maybe he NEEDED a day off.
but for a terrorist attack, we would have gone to the world series
????? I’m familiar with a number of 9/11-related conspiracy theories, but not this one.
ira on
July 27th, 2009 5:25 pm
????? I’m familiar with a number of 9/11-related conspiracy theories, but not this one.
Yes, the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy between the Israelis and Osama Bin laden, with the full knowledge of the US government, in order to prevent the Mariners from going to the World Series.
kenshabby on
July 27th, 2009 5:42 pm
Another swell discussion thread derailed by idiocy. *sigh*
Adam B. on
July 27th, 2009 6:03 pm
Back to sane baseball related discussions…
So Baker has some quotes from Zduriencik about Felix and Washburn winning in the next couple of days changing the Mariners position.
Pure posturing til the deadline as I would assume, or is Zduriencik smoking the same thing Minaya was last week?
thr33niL on
July 27th, 2009 6:57 pm
GREAT interview today, Dave. One of the best to date. “Pets.com.. SELL SELL!”, funny stuff.
BTW, funniest Salk rant to date in reaming Eric from Bremerton a new for thinking Betancourt was a good defender. Hilarious.
“He made a gazillion errors – was in bad defensive position by every defensive metric, including eyesight”.
I’ll be listening.
There a way to pick this up on the Internet?
mynorthwest.com
listen here
Sorry I don’t know how to work the link button. http://www.mynorthwest.com/streams/streampop_espn.php
Tune in from 11am-3pm daily and hear Salk say, “Hey man” a couple hundred times. Awesome.
Cool, I shall listen.
One thing I’ve been wondering, in light of recent events, is how close the team is to contention next year. It didn’t take a lot to get them tantalizingly close this year, but they also were playing over their heads and had the benefit of a weak division (particularly with the Angels’ many early injuries). But how close are they really? Texas appears to have financial issues; the A’s are rebuilding but have a lot of question marks. The Angels — even accepting that they aren’t as good as they have been recently (as their 53-44 Pytag suggests) — are still and again the class of the division. They do have several key contracts expiring (Lackey, Guerrero, Figgins, plus Abreu who has been valuable if not exactly key) but that’s unlikely to make them a lot weaker unless they make huge mistakes in the offseason and/or they have prospects flame out.
So if we assume that an 89-96 win Angel team (depending on whether you believe in their Pythag or their actual record) sets the bar, how possible is it to get there by ’10?. Some seem to think the team is “a long way — at least two or three years — from being a perennial contender in the AL.” While I’m glad to see the media pushing patience (and suggesting the construction of a “perennial” contender) rather than pounding the “trade all the kids to win now” drum, that seems unjustifiably pessimistic. Or is that just the fan in me talking?
(And yeah, I know I shouldn’t be reading Kelley — it was an accident, honest)
Dave, can you please explain to Mike Salk that Hardy > Washburn. He’s seems to think Wash is locked here longer than Hardy would be. Crazy talk…
So Huard thinks Detroit might trade Porcello for Washburn? Urk.
And now we’ve got a “chemistry” caller. Who thinks Betancourt was a “great defender”.
Haha, that “chemistry” guy got torn apart. That was quite funny.
Wow, Mike Salk destroyed that guy. What a terrible call, though.
Whoa. We don’t want to see you dance naked in the streets.
Dave
announcesthreatens to dance naked if the M’s get Hardy for Washburn.Agree with Dave, finding a consistent pitcher vs. a 27 year-old shortstop in his prime are totally different value propositions.
Finally some callers are starting to “Hey Man” him back.
Good job.
I have a question though. You say that there is no chance we get Escobar, but what do you think the chances of the M’s trading more than Washburn to make a push for Escobar? Like Washburn, Clement, and a young SP or something?
Sadly, Dave didn’t convince them.
Honestly, If we trade Washburn, I think that RRS can step in and take his spot, and do it just as well.
I can certainly see why Salk said that Dave had a convincing argument when their last caller talked about Betancourt’s great defence, wanted Pat Gillick back and for Jack Zduriencik to stop replacing injured players and just let Don Wakamatsu manage.
Gosh, I’m glad I tuned in late.
LOL…Salk honestly thinks that filling out your roster in a typical fashion is a good idea. lets just for get the advantages of having a plus bat at shortstop.
I’m really hoping that Salk is just trying to play devil’s advocate. His argument that Hardy would only be here for one more year is complete garbage. He’s valuing pitching more heavily than hitting. That and he acts like it’s easy to just go out and acquire better hitters at every position like they’re out there for the taking.
Nice job Dave. Anyone who thinks we should keep Washburn based on this year alone (and not the previous 3 years of his terrible contract) is not a fan of this team.
And better hitters with a current UZR that flirts with double digits, to boot.
Liam, the caller that was on before Dave was worse than listening to someone run their fingernails across the chalkboard. He actually believed that Yuni was good defensively. It was painful to listen to. And he wanted Gillick back. Why? So he could destroy our team for the future again? Ugh. We should thank our lucky stars that we have Z. Building for now and the future.
In the near and short term, I’m not sure there’s a better SS out there—and anything internal is years away….
I would think to get him for just those years would be beneficial to getting him in 2011.
“Jarrod Washburn is Pets.com at $140 a share. Sell! Sell!”
Personally, the numbers have somewhat convinced me that Washburn is a slightly different and better pitcher this year (who is also being helped enormously by his defense, as predicted). But I have no confidence that will continue, or that aging Won’t take more away than his tweaking or increasing craftierness (yes, I wrote that) might supply.
Regardless of that (and it’s certainly open to debate) I don’t think anyone can dispute his value is at the highest it has been during his entire career with the Mariners (which of course is there’s a sentiment to hang onto him via an extension). But the M’s are not contenders this year, alas, and other teams are… teams that need pitching. Thus however valuable you might think Washburn might be to the M’s in the future, he’s more valuable to some other team now. You should try to extract that value, now, rather than risk seeing it wither on the vine. Dave’s analogy is a good one: the way you get rich is not just by investing intelligently, it’s by getting out of those investments intelligently. Ride them up, but don’t ride them down; sell them high and buy low on the Next Big Thing. If you find yourself with a laggard stock that’s suddenly seeing some life, don’t fall in love with it expecting it to keep climbing. Washburn has (finally) been good for the Mariners this year; now, thank him and cash him in.
I don’t get the “Hardy would only be here for one more year.” argument?
How much more of a lock is Washburn to return after THIS year, and does the difference in their potentially re-signing negate the difference in talent levels?
I think not.
Well, Gillick seems to specialize in that “sell the future to win it all today” strategy, and it’s worked for him in Toronto and Phillie. But it failed in Seattle (alas). And the downside is that he then moves on, leaving the team’s farm barren and somebody else to clean up the wreckage. The M’s might go all the way under Gillick, but it’s too soon to bring him back: they’re still recovering from his last regime.
We’re still recovering from Bavasi. Gillick did fine. He put the M’s in the record books and gave us Ichiro.
Gillick was a wash.
He’s excellent at pushing teams into the playoffs for a couple of years, then departing as those same teams turn into smoldering piles of aged debris.
Just look at his drafts for an explanation as to why that might be.
Bavasi would’ve been a disaster regardless, but Gillick did him no favors. And yeah, as Adam B says, just look at the draft — especially the picks he didn’t have because he didn’t value them and didn’t care if other teams took them in compensation. Bavasi built a house of crap, but the building site was short on supplies too.
Gillick had nothing to do with the decision to bring Ichiro here.
Gillick brought us to 116 wins, and but for a terrorist attack, we would have gone to the world series.
Perhaps more importantly, Gillick brought us Bob Engle, who has paid off for this organization more than any single draft pick or free agent signing possible.
FWIW, neither Jeff Clement nor Jerry Owens were in the Rainiers lineup today, and I didn’t see them in the dugout either – but they could have just had the day off. Clement’s average has been taking such a dive (he was at .212 yesterday and falling) maybe he NEEDED a day off.
The days lineup is out and it is ugly.
“Worst lineup ever”
Clement’s average has been taking such a dive (he was at .212 yesterday and falling) maybe he NEEDED a day off.
Clement is hitting .286. He’s hitting .301 in July. He’s hitting .357 the last seven days.
That’s funny. My Internet has Clement at .286 with an OPS of .866.
Whatever Clement’s value to the club is, it’s probably not indicated by his batting average.
????? I’m familiar with a number of 9/11-related conspiracy theories, but not this one.
????? I’m familiar with a number of 9/11-related conspiracy theories, but not this one.
Yes, the 9/11 attacks were a conspiracy between the Israelis and Osama Bin laden, with the full knowledge of the US government, in order to prevent the Mariners from going to the World Series.
Another swell discussion thread derailed by idiocy. *sigh*
Back to sane baseball related discussions…
So Baker has some quotes from Zduriencik about Felix and Washburn winning in the next couple of days changing the Mariners position.
Pure posturing til the deadline as I would assume, or is Zduriencik smoking the same thing Minaya was last week?
GREAT interview today, Dave. One of the best to date. “Pets.com.. SELL SELL!”, funny stuff.
BTW, funniest Salk rant to date in reaming Eric from Bremerton a new for thinking Betancourt was a good defender. Hilarious.