Griffey, comparatively
DMZ · August 7, 2009 at 9:56 am · Filed Under Mariners
In comments here, people sometimes compare Griffey to other recent DH occupants. So!
Griffey 2009, in 329 PA: .221/.331/.393
Vidro 2008, in 330 PA: .234/.274/.338 (and then was released)
Everett 2006, in 343 PA: .227/.297/.360 (and then was released)
See? It could be a lot worse.
Plus, getting to watch Jr. trying to score from first base on a double or triple is worth any number of OPS points.
You mean Griffey 2009? Because sadly for us, Griffey was a bit better last year than now.
from Fangraphs:
Griffey 2009, .322 wOBA, -1.8 wRAA
Vidro 2008, .268 wOBA, -16.4 wRAA
Everett 2006, .284 wOBA, -13.9 wRAA
He’s also 7th in the team in wOBA this year for all position players… 5th if you only include players with 100 PA or more.
Is he good or league average? No. Was he the worst player on the team for most of the season, not by a long-shot.
Am I looking forward to taking my son to Griffey bobblehead night tonight? Without a doubt.
You mean Griffey 2009? Because sadly for us, Griffey was a bit better last year than now.
Fixed.
That homerun he hit in Texas sure looked good though.
I believe Griffey is less expensive than the other two. Plus, neither Vidro nor Everett had the tickle inducing “magic fingers” of Griffey.
I’m sure the Marketing Dept is planning the optimal time for Griffey to announce his retirement to maximize sales (a la Edgar). I bet we’ll hear something in the next couple weeks.
Btw, that last post is just speculation on my part.
Yeah but all those stats are meaningless next to all the fond memories we all have of Vidro and Everett. Remember when Vidro…oh wait, that was Griffey. Or when Everett…that was Griffey too.
Speaking of former star players in decline who’ve returned to their old teams, the A’s just released Jason Giambi.
Story
Griffey 0.1 WAR + Washburn 2.5 WAR. Abreu 3.2 WAR. I’m still pissed that Armstrong blocked the Washburn dump last year. That $$ could have landed Abreu. On the other hand, French/Robles way better then Bonser.
All I can say is that having Griffey sure has made the season a lot more fun. I think back to the doldrums of last year — I am much more excited to watch for those “Griffey Moments” that we get, even if they are rarer and rarer these days. He has already added numerous memories to the collection, even if he is a shadow of his former playing self. And, it can’t hurt the young guys confidence to walk out on the field with one of the best players to ever don a uniform. BTW — There’s a new Griffey Children’s Book (The Kid Returns) that just released this week at the Mariner Teamstores… Anyone read it yet?
Some of the really negative comments about Griffey this year on this site (not from Dave and DMZ) have surprised me. I was an A’s fan growing up, and then I watched Reggie Jackson in his last year back in Oakland. He wasn’t good, but I didn’t care. He was ours, and we had a Reggie Jackson day and watched him retire.
Sabrmetrics are cool and all, but they are not everything.
It could be worse, but it could also be a lot better. Even retiring Edgar in 04 was marginally better than retiring Griffey in 09. Sigh.
Starting from a 101 loss team with a new manager who could not have had a lower profile with only two stars who are both relatively quiet, and without a lot of significantly better options for the DH spot, the Griffey signing was a mark of marketing genius that was not so bad from a baseball point of view (we clearly did not have a DH option that would have made up the difference between our team and the Angels) to not justify the goodwill involved.
As I think I wrote at the time, if Griffey’s signing takes pressure off Z and Wak to let them run the club the way they think fit and prove themselves, it’s worth it. Was that 100% right? No. Was it basically right? I’d say yes.
I’ve been tracking Jr’s performance with what Abreu is putting up. I believe that was our other “choice” although Bobby is making $5M.
Griffey 2009, in 329 PA: .221/.331/.393
Abreu 2009, 373 PA, .322/.416/.458 (only 9 HR’s however).
Early on it seemed interesting given Abreu was off to a slow start with the HR’s. Maybe I was dreaming thinking Jr. could hit .250 and 20 HR’s and 70 RBI’s.
I got out of the military in 1990 and my brother took me to a Mariners game to watch a skinny kid that could play center field. He told me this guy was worth watching. That night Griffey went high on the wall to take away a homer run from Don Mattingly and then in the eighth hit a 2 run homer to win the game 3-1. I was sold and became a Mariners and Griffey fan. All those memories from his time in Seattle come to mind every time he comes to bat and like LINK22 said he still produces memory makers for longtime fans even if in smaller amounts.
If it could be called a “choice” when the M’s had really no choice, as Abreu wasn’t interested …
That said if next year depends on a more productive DH and 1st baseman to lift this team to another level then I fully expect Griffey to recognize that along with Wak and Z and either retire or accept a much more minor role as a pinch hitter and club house leader.
Yes, supernova, you are dreaming, but only about the other choice, which was Garret Anderson, not Abreu. Here is the correct comparison:
Griffey 2009, in 329 PA: .221/.331/.393 $2.0M
Andersaon 2009, 309 PA, .288/.319/.437 $2.5M
I completely agree! I will long remember both the opening day homer at the Metrodome and the jack on Mothers’ Day.
Hear hear! My first thought when I read this post was that Garrett Anderson’s numbers, albeit better than Jr’s, don’t amount to the 6+ wins we’d need to be back in this thing. I bought a brand new Griffey jersey (the authentic one even) soon after the season started. I wonder how many hundreds of other fans did the same. Any stats out there on jersey sales?
Also, anyone know how close Jr. is to getting any of the attendance based incentives from his contract?
BTW I’ll be rockin that Jr. jersey proudly at the Rainiers game tonight in Round Rock, TX.
daddydriz: My error big time. It was Garrett Anderson. I had a senior moment apparently.
msb: OK. I was dreaming then or maybe wishful thinking.
Thanks for the feedback both of you. I’ll keep the faith in Jr.
According to his contract, the attendance bonuses start at two million and go up from there. ESPN puts the Mariners at 1,355,843 in 49 games so far this year.
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Do you think the Mets regret bringing Willie Mays back to NY for the 1973 season when he not only butchered the outfield but put up a .211/.303/.344 line?
No not a bit, plus they got rewarded by getting to the world series before they lost to the A’s, which let both the Bay Area and NY fans see him one last time on the field.
Would I be able to get everybodys favorite “with runners in scoring position” line? At some point one of the sports talk radio shows must have busted out a number as I hear quite a few people mention “.073” at the games. Or around the dinner table. Being sports talk regurgitation is a Seattle hobby.
also the most amazing thing about Griff’s current stats is how often I watch opposing pitchers nibble against him.
Do you think the Mets regret bringing Willie Mays back to NY for the 1973 season
Speaking of WILLIE MAYS:
For a few more days, Ebbets Field Flannels is selling replicas of Mays’1951 Minneapolis Millers jersey; only $99–usually $185.
Many comments here indicate that devotion to statistics–even winning–is conditional. All that matters unless Griffey is involved in the discussion.
If that’s what you want, fine. But don’t pretend that he doesn’t suck.
I don’t care if Griffey hangs around for the rest of this year, but next year we better be looking to upgrade the DH spot.
And a pretty convincing argument can be made that the Mariners might have been able to hang around in the race longer than they did if they had a more productive DH. “Better than Vidro and Everett” is not exactly a glowing endorsement.
I understand the marketing aspect, and accept that the Mariners are in the business of attracting fans.
But his presence caused them to devalue Clement to nearly nothing. Assume he had been in Griffey’s DH spot…and simply hit .250 with a dozen home runs. Even if the M’s had no long term plan for him, he would have commanded substantially more on the trade market.
And from this point forward, the nostalgia appeal should be pretty much spent. From now on, it would be more valuable to the organization to have Rob Johnson hit in the DH spot–as much as that thought makes me gag.
I still wonder what Clement could have brought to the table as the lefty DH.
The sad thing about Griffey is that – despite his obvious declining bat speed at age 39 – he hasn’t really used his 20 years experience, into a quantifiable advantage at the plate. You would think after this many seasons, that would be worth something. But Griffey defiantly swings at the same pitches, gets fooled by the same off-speed stuff, and now he ALSO can’t catch up to fastballs. He never really learned to go the other way with pitches, take what the pitcher gave him, or work counts; at least not like a lot of other HOF’s at the end of their career. He has drawn a fair amount of walks this season, but I think that’s more a product of his status in the eyes of umpires than to Junior working counts.