Hardy to Minnesota
Dave · November 6, 2009 at 9:20 am · Filed Under Mariners
You can officially cross J.J. Hardy off the list of possible options this winter. He was traded to the Minnesota Twins for Carlos Gomez.
Heck of a move for the Twins.
I guess not?
Wag, honey, you need your own blog for this. Let us know when you set it up and how you see Pujols fitting in the 2010 M’s lineup. Perhaps at 3B?
Meanwhile, wow, Twins. Fairly solid IF defense now but remaining horrid in the OF. Anyone have any idea how Target Field is expected to play out in terms of fly balls? I’d imagine not like Safeco.
Yes, and we’re talking about projections for 2010.
I’m not arguing that Jack Wilson can’t play at a 2WAR level, I’m arguing that J.J. Hardy has been, and very likely could be, twice the player Wilson is in 2010.
Wheres the moderator for this thread?
This is bitter sweet news, as I am a Twins and M’s fan. Not too fond of Jack Wilson at SS, but it’s hard to find a good offensive and defensive SS, and if the 2/8M is true that’s a steal for us.
Hopefully we can up the offense at 1B/DH or 3B, because this team is really hurting for offense. Ichiro, Branyan, Nick Johnson, Lopez, Guti would be a pretty solid core though.
With Teahan going to the White Sox, should we cross off Lopez moving this offseason? I know probably more than one team wants him, but the White Sox seemed like the best fit, although Teahan may be their 3B.
Jack Wilson has finished lower than 1.5 WAR exactly once since 2004. He has been worth 1.9, 1.6 and 2.7 WAR the past three seasons.
My point isn’t that Hardy is a sure bet to be worth less than 4 WAR, it’s that I really think you’re underselling Jack Wilson. He’s a league average player that we very well might be about to extend for well below market value. Of course I would preferred Hardy, but it’s not like Wilson is God-awful.
I just posted what I would like to see the mariners do. I’d personally stay set with Jack Wilson and give him a shot to get back to his old form. Besides, we have Tuiasosoppo in the back ground.
This whole thread is about going after JJ hardy which for roughly Brandon Morrow.
So whats so crazy about Tui and Morrow for Jose Reyes? Just figured i’d get in on the random ideas for SS.
Umm, Teahen to CWS makes it more likely they’d be interested in Lopez, since they just traded one of their 2Bs and it appears they plan to play Teahen in the corner OF.
It has no basis in reality, and things that have no basis in reality have no place in a comment thread here. Jose Reyes is not rumored to be available, and if someone were to ask the Mets about his availability the asking price would be significantly more than a pitcher with no real role that is widely seen as a bust and a fringe-y major leaguer.
I’m a huge M’s fan, but even I know realisticaly that Tui has no trade value outside of our org. And to think about Tui playing SS for us makes me cringe!
I like your Morrow and Truinfel for Reyes proposal, but its been said that Wright, Reyes, and Beltran are untouchable according to the Mets management.
Just figured i’d get in on the random ideas for SS.
Because if there’s anything this blog is short on, it’s random rosterbation comments.
Good for the Twins, they might actually get some offense out of their middle infield for once!
But I’m perfectly happy with Jack Wilson at short. We have bigger problems to worry about than replacing a +2 WAR shortstop.
Next story: Lopez to the Chi Sox?
Thankyou dijtizzo
It was just a random suggestion.
AaronC. Everything we say on this site it usually our own speculation.
I dont think I ever saw anything about Morrow for JJ Hardy. But this site mentioned it, then MLBtraderumors sited it. So your “no basis in reality” non-sense is just that non-sense.
A packaged deal for Jose Reyes makes a lot of sense for both sides. Just because MLB.com hasn’t mentioned it dosen’t mean it isn’t worth considering. Thats all sports talk is, random idea’s.
Good for the Twins, they might actually get some offense out of their middle infield for once!
But I’m perfectly happy with Jack Wilson at short. We have bigger problems to worry about than replacing a +2 WAR shortstop.
Next story: Lopez to the Chi Sox?
Oh, and I’d love to see Cammy back in left field. Oh would I.
Actually the purpose of the comments section at USSMariner is to discuss the things the authros write. The authors are actualy baseball analysts that know way more about baseball than you or I ever will and have access to information we do not. It’s not just random ideas, and to suggest that, as well as to pollute the comment section of this blog with ridiculous garbage like you have been doing, is completely and totally disrespectful.
How do this
and this
have anything at all to do with each other?
Aaronc said that the trade you proposed had no basis in reality. He didn’t say anything at all about the Hardy/Morrow idea.
Key words…07-08 and, especially, was
I read the ESPN article on the Teahen trade, and granted that it was ESPN they talked about how Teahen would play 3B and Gordon Beckham would play 2B. I think it’s alot more logical to keep Beckham at third and have Teahen replace Dye, but Teahen is probably has more valuable as an 3B than a RF. Hopefully the ESPN article is wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time.
Ancient,
The Sox are saying Teahan will play third, with Beckham shifting over to second.
Actually, another act of Twins genius. The infield is made out of concrete, so that they have a competitive advantage over everyone else. But the outfield is going to be ankle-deep mud, so that their defensive shortcomings are the same for everyone.
Could give that more credence, but could also work the other way, in that it could be an indicator Chicago has picked one (Nix;or the combo of Nix/Lillebridge in this situation).
The M’s Nation lack of love towards Jack Wilson is much less indicative of how good a player he is than the fact that he was awarded the best defensive SS award by people who really know what they are talking about.
Z, though not a voting member of the Fielding Bible Awards (exact name?) he is someone who really know what he’s doing, so the fact that we passed on acquiring JJ Hardy may seen like a mistake to some, but probably at the end of the year, Jack Z’s choices will pan out at a much higher percentage than the smartest posters here would have…
Bottom line: It is unlikely that Jack Z made a mistake on choosing to extend Jack W over trading for JJ H.
Please no more Jason Bay. Why do you want to repeat the Richie Sexson experience?
Wow. Now you’ve conjured up images of Sexson in left field.
Yuch!
Then you need to understand this site isn’t about “sports talk.”
Exactly. And I don’t understand how somebody would think speculation about a Red Sox outfielder is in any way on topic in this thread about shortstops. Or why they’d think Rosterbation was appropriate, period.
Speaking of shortstops… I’d rather have Triunfel tomorrow than Reyes today. And it would take considerably more than you’re suggesting to get him anyway. A 5 WAR shortstop — which Reyes is when he’s healthy — is an incredibly rare and valuable thing. Back in 2008 when he was healthy, he was not only the 2nd most valuable SS in baseball (behind only Hanley Ramirez) he was the 15th most valuable player period, right behind ARod and right ahead of Joe Mauer (not to mention guys like Youklis and Longoria and Rollins…) And you think the Mets will give that up for a maybe-MOR starter and a prospect? Are you a crack-smoking loon?
Minaya may have gotten taken for a ride in the Putz trade, but that’s because he really had no choice: the Mets’ late-season bullpen collapses had put him into a disaster-control mode where he not only had to do something, he had to be seen to be doing something big. Zduriencik smartly was able to exploit that, but there’s no such urgency around Reyes. Minaya would’ve been roasted by the Mets fanbase if he didn’t trade for or buy bullpen help last offseason; he’d be roasted by the Mets fanbase if he traded away Reyes in this one.
Reyes isn’t available for any price you’d sensibly want to pay; if you’re going to expend big resources, shortstop isn’t the glaring hole that needs to be fixed in the M’s lineup anyway.
He played 112 games in the outfield in his career.
No wonder they put Raul out there.
It was supposed to say this..
I was just saying… it actually happened… which makes it scarier.
Alright, I’ll clarify;
J.J. Hardy was twice the player Jack Wilson was, and in all likely hood will be going forward.
Personal opinion? Definitely.
Completely unfounded? Certainly not.
Does this mean I’m unhappy with Jack Wilson as a Mariner? No, But that wasn’t the basis of my original argument.
It’s hard to say without knowing how the prevailing winds go once the stadium superstructure is in place, as New Yankee Stadium has demonstrated. Going strictly by the park dimensions, it looks to be a bit more of a hitter’s park than the old dome: it’s significantly shallower in left and slightly deeper in right, but it won’t have the big baggy wall that the Metrodome had. I’d expect RH pull hitters like Lopez will enjoy it, especially in the middle of summer; beyond that (and the obvious effect of real grass slowing down grounders that would’ve gone through infield gaps), we’ll just have to see.
Nobody here knows what’s possible and what isn’t. I say again, “I would like to keep Jack Wilson and give him a shot this season.”
However, talking openly about other options on other teams is fair game. Joser, who are you to say what holes need to be filled and what holes do not. A lot of people would say trade Felix Hernandez and get everything you can for him and in doing so save a lot of money. A lot of people would say he’s a 1 in a million pitcher, sign him for 10 years and give him everything including the kitchen sink.
You have no idea what it would take to get Jose Reyes. AGAIN, I am not saying we get him or even pursue him. But if Jack Wilson dosen’t pan out and nobody can step up and produce at SS. You have to think outside the box.
Wheres the moderator for this thread?
Sorry, I don’t know about anyone else but I was booked all afternoon. Anyway, just because one much-bruited trade possibility goes away does not justify fantasizing up new ones with no basis in reality. So that will be all for the random trade suggestions.
I was working too.
Seriously Wag, you either need to learn what this site is about (the informatoin is freely available here) and follow along. Or, if this doesn’t suit your tastes, move along to a fox site or something along those lines.
Again, if you can’t grasp these few basic things (oh yeah, this) then, honestly, you really have no place commenting here.
Now this isn’t saying that you are a bad person in any way. It’s just what this particular blog is all about. If you can’t get with it, then just go. If you can get with it, welcome aboard.
Now I’m probably going to get ripped by a mod {most likely Derek} for missing both end parenthises. Maybe I should take my own advice and re-read the guidelines…
I will say that Dave maybe right about his off season plan of possibly getting Danks from the Chi sox. They did just get rid of there second basemen and Dye. So there is a hole at 3rd and right. However, I doubt it will happen because Rios will move in to RF and teahen will slide to third with either alexei or beckham moving to second. Looking forward to December!
At the risk of being chastised, why are Hardy’s LD% and Contact% not more of a concern? It would scare me away from him. If his bat has slowed down, and scouts would definetly notice, wouldn’t that explain th ‘low’ return in the trade?
That’s a good point, Steen. To my knowledge, the batted ball classification systems that give us the stats such as LD% are imperfect, but Hardy’s steady drop in both that stat and in Contact% could certainly help explain the level of return the Brewers received. His peripheral trends don’t look promising, and it will be interesting to see whether he can find his groove in the AL.
Maybe Z was thinking along the same lines. He really does seem to be a rather bright fellow.