Current depth chart, first week of Feb
Remember: this is not a 40 or 25-man roster. And that the M’s will sign someone immediately to mess this up.
Pitching
SP-R Felix Hernandez
SP-L Cliff Lee
SP-L Ryan Rowland-Smith
SP-R Ian Snell
SP-R Doug Fister
(SP-R Yusmeiro Petit, then there’s a grey area for a couple of the guys below)
Assuming six people make the bullpen, so you’re cutting at least one of these:
RP-R David Aardsma
RP-R Brandon League
RP-R Mark Lowe
RP-L Luke French
RP-L Jason Vargas
RP-L Garrett Olson
RP-R Shawn Kelley
(and below that: RP-R Sean White, RP-R Kanekoa Texeira)
Position players
C-R Rob Johnson
C-R Adam Moore
(C-B Josh Bard)
1B-L Casey Kotchman
1B-R Ryan Garko
2B-R Jose Lopez
SS-R Jack Wilson
3B-B Chone Figgins
LF-R Eric Byrnes
CF-R Franklin Gutierrez
RF-L Ichiro!
DH-L Ken Griffey Jr.
DH/LF-B Milton Bradley
IF-L Jack Hannahan
OF-L Ryan Langerhans
Then in Tacoma probably:
LF-L Michael Saunders
SS-R Chris Woodward
?-R Matt Tuiasosopo
And in Tacoma definitely:
1B-R Tommy Everidge
SS-R Josh Wilson
CF-L Corey Patterson
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Our infield depth scares me. I don’t like it one bit.
One injury and Chris Woodward ends up as our starting shortstop? Eww.
If Garko can catch, will work wonders for our offensive flexibility.
Jeff at LL wrote a post explaining why Jack Hannahan, a much less “ew” candidate to play shortstop in the case of injury, would make a great replacement.
With the hole the Indians had at first base once Travis Hafner became useless in the field, Garko’s bat was more useful there.
I really think that he never caught in Cleveland because of all of the catching depth they had there. Check out this list:
Victor Martinez– Garko’s not good enough with the bat to compete.
Kelly Shoppach– His power was good enough that having him as the backup catcher was better than making Garko have to worry about two different positions.
Plus, Lou Marson and Carlos Santana made Garko expendable as a catcher in the long term. I don’t think Garko not playing catcher in Cleveland ever had to do with his defense or game-calling. It was just all about the circumstance.
Hannahan’s inexperience at shortstop doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in me either. Though I do agree, it’s probably better than Woodward.
Hub and Hemo – I heard Garko on the radio the other night, and he sounded interested in catching again, and expects to do a fair amount of it in ST. I think this is in the plan (subject to the caveat that all plans can change).
Derek, you left out Tui, who’s probably in Tacoma.
so does the fact Eric Bedard is being reported as “close to signing” by the AP make the last blog post look really lame? man who is the bigger baby, Jim Street for whining earlier or Dave for whining now?
Josh Bard is a switch hitter
I hope Bard starts, Johnson is kept on the bench and Moore gets more seasoning with Tui, Saunders, and Carp in Tacoma. (Actually I hope Johnson is part of some trade…he is terrible…)
Dave and/or Derek, any chance of Bard making the team? (Assuming Johnson is healthy)
I really wish they would commit to Bradley being the full-time DH, but I’m just going to have to get over it.
I think things are shaping up. And the best part is, I don’t think Z is done yet.
VERY excited…
Looks like we are gonna add Bedard to that rotation! Well… come June (hopefully) or July. I am not a Hanahan or Tui fan for the infield, so I am not really a fan of this depth chart so far. I do like the other Wilson that is in Tacoma right now. Although, I believe that this is the final roster, going to Spring Training and probably for the opener as well.
Could someone please help, I don’t know much about player options and rosters: If Bedard, ( or anyone else last seen on the 60 day disabled list ) is signed, must someone be removed from the 40 man roster right away, or can that wait until Bedard is ‘activated’ ?
I think Bard’s more likely to make the team than is generally thought. When we were at the event and Jeff Sullivan said Bard was at least the #2 catcher in the org right now I realized he was totally right. We’ll see.
Perhaps Bedard has a conscience, wants to help the M’s win a ring and not be forever listed in lists of baseballs all time worst trades.
I was just going to say I feel Matt Tuiasosopo is one of the probably in Tacoma group who is good infield depth, then I realized someone else already did. I actually feel pretty good about our depth chart and estimated starting lineups. I look forward to baseball season.
Please tell me who you’d like to start and who’s terrible:
Player A – .230/.293/.360
Player B – .213/.289/.326
Derek-
Thanks for answering so quickly and giving me HOPE!!!
I think he’s (Bard) by far the #1 catcher we have. He’s not great, by any means, but Moore needs more time in AAA and Johnson just sucks.
I’d be totally cool with Bard and Alfonzo. Or making a trade with the Nats and getting Burkie back to back-up Bard.
Either way there is NO WAY we can get less production from C than last year.
Sodo-
You ever see Johnson try to catch? Brutal.
And don’t even bring up catcher ERA…
Barring something catastrophic, I feel like there’s a 0% chance Eliezer Alfonzo makes the team over Adam Moore.
Adam Moore is 25. Rob Johnson is 26. What more “seasoning” does Moore need? Prove to me Moore needs more seasoning, and I’ll let you have our roster with Bard/Alfonzo. While both the “kids” sit in AAA
I think the team will have Bard and Johnson next year if Johnson is healthy, with Johnson the starter. If he’s not healthy, then Bard starts and Moore backs him up. Alfonzo will be in the minors like Quiroz was last year. You are right; we won’t see Alfonzo unless there are a bunch of injuries.
I’m just hoping we don’t see Johnson. I can’t stand to see him let balls constantly go by.
Can someone explain to me why Garko is being ignored as a second catcher by many in here? He talks about doing some catching, Jack Z talks about him doing some catching, he’s a much better bat than ANY of our catching options and from the sounds of it doesn’t have to be Joe Mauer to find himself on the same level as our other backup catcher options.
Is backup catching something you just can’t pick up quickly with a couple years off after doing it your whole life at a high level?
The last time Ryan Garko had any regular work at catcher was in 2005. We shouldn’t go into Spring training expecting that he can jump right back in and catch 40+ games.
Yes. And unless you’re a lifelong Josh Bard fan, I doubt you’ve seen enough of Josh Bard to gauge his skills. All we have of Josh Bard is the numbers and they’re pretty marginal.
So what makes you think he’s
a gold gloverabove average behind the plate?If your thinking is that ANYONE is better than Rob Johnson, (which might be the case, since you suggested Alfonzo) then why not give Adam Moore the starting job?
There’s no doubt Adam Moore > Rob Johnson with the stick.
There’s a very good chance that Adam Moore > Josh Bard with the stick.
Defensively, catching is hard to analyze. But I don’t understand why Adam Moore needs more “seasoning.” I see Adam Moore as our starting catcher with either Bard/Johnson backing him up.
But let’s let the catching group make the arguments for us in spring training.
If Garko can catch, will work wonders for our offensive flexibility.
Why is everyone so intent on Garko catching? He wasn’t signed to do that. If it happens its because the game situation dictates it. He will be the 3rd catcher at best.
Because regardless of who you support in the battle, it’s the weakest position for the Mariners, bar none.
Wak, a former catcher, credited by many with good managing last year, by some a fantastic job, stuck with Johnson last year. I doubt it’s because Johnson calls him “sir” or something. I would think it has something to do with the way Johnson handles the pitchers or calls a game, things that aren’t measured, but Wak likes about Johnson. When arguing about whether this catcher or that catcher is better, it’s hard when everything about a catcher doesn’t fit neatly into a stats package.
The pitchers work well with Johnson. He was a big part of last year’s pitching success.
PS…catcher isn’t traditionally a very offensive minded position. I doubt the decision will be made based on who hits .230 instead of .213
I’m pretty sure it won’t be Johjima, and that makes me happy 🙂
Oh thank God, we’d almost gotten through a post without the “Rob Johnson = intangibles” argument coming up. I was worried.
Why? In almost every measurable category, Kenji was a far superior catcher to Rob Johnson. In 71 games last season, he was worth 1 WAR. Johnson, in 80 games, wasn’t even worth half that.
Kenji’s contract extension was not a financially beneficial deal, but by no means was he a bad catcher.
DMZ,
Maybe you like this argument better: everyone=intangibles. There are a lot of subjective judgments that go into managing a baseball team.
Well, with apologies to DMZ, we all know the story of Tim McCarver being Steve Carlton’s personal catcher even though Bob Boone was the Phillies regular catcher. APPARENTLY (emphasized because who the hell knows for sure), Johnson is a favorite of the pitchers, including King Felix. That last part alone is enough to get him a pass, even if he’s being held together with staples and duct tape at 26.
I’m loving the use of platoons. There’s an opportunity cost in using two lineup spots instead of one, but we’ve managed to put together some pretty impressive ManBearPig versions of All-Star players.
As for catcher, Garko’s main job is to be Kotchman’s platoon partner at 1B. He loses value when the pitcher is right-handed, which is most of the time. There simply aren’t enough at bats for him to be a 2nd catcher as well.
But I also suspect he’ll be an actual 3rd catching option rather than an Ibanez-style emergency backup. His catching experience is pretty substantial, not just high school. My memories of him are from when he totally rocked as a catcher, winning the Johnny Bench Award for the best backstop in college baseball. This is not to argue that he should be given substantial time there for the Mariners, but simply to say that he brings real flexibility to the table as a pinch-hitting option for the catchers.
As I see it, the only advantage of Garko having catching skills would be that if you wanted to pinch hit for the starter, you wouldn’t have to worry that you had absolutely no one to catch if the backup, once inserted, got injured, or if you used the backup catcher as a pinch hitter for someone else and the starter got injured. If he never caught in a game, that would be all right, but at least having a guy who possesses a catcher’s mitt is better than when Raul was our emergency catcher.
As I see it, the only advantage of Garko having catching skills would be that if you wanted to pinch hit for the starter, you wouldn’t have to worry that you had absolutely no one to catch if the backup, once inserted, got injured, or if you used the backup catcher as a pinch hitter for someone else and the starter got injured. If he never caught in a game, that would be all right, but at least having a guy who possesses a catcher’s mitt is better than when Raul was our emergency catcher.
Those are the game situations where I see Garko catching and nothing more.
if you used the backup catcher as a pinch hitter for someone else
Fortunately, there’s no danger of that happening this year. Unless, of course, Garko ends up being the backup catcher.
The Mariners also haven’t closed the door on bringing back another member of their 2009 rotation, free agent Jarrod Washburn. The left-hander is also known to be talking to the Minnesota Twins, but signing there became less likely Thursday with reports the Twins have reached agreement with free-agent second baseman Orlando Hudson for a reported one-year, $5 million deal. Might not be bad with Bedard returning in May/June??
I’ve seen a number of people try to dismiss the notion of Garko as an actual catcher. I have a few responses:
– You may be right, but can you go a little bit further than “he hasn’t caught in years”? Because everything Garko, Wak and Jack Z are saying sounds like he might actually catch. This is not the way anyone spoke of past #3 backup catchers, like Ibanez, Sweeney, Bloomquist, etc.
– As pointed about by a few others, if Garko can catch, even if he’s a -10 runs/year catcher defensively, that’s still a large upgrade on the current plan.
– For a team that does unorthodox things like (a) use Hannahan as a backup SS even though he has never really played there and (b) consider an 11-man pitching staff… trying Garko out as a real catcher is not such a stretch.
Maybe it’s unlikely that it will truly come to pass, but I just have not seen any backup for the dismissiveness out there re Garko as catcher.
Question: if Lopez were to go on the DL, who’s most likely to be the regular second baseman?
Sounds like the Bedard signing is a done deal pending a physical. $1.5M plus incentives. He’s heading to Peoria, AZ for the physical according to an Ontario paper.
Another fantastic move by Jack Z. Even if Bedard couldn’t pitch until June or July this would still be like getting a rent-a-player for the pennant run at virtually no cost.
Perhaps Bedard has a conscience, wants to help the M’s win a ring and not be forever listed in lists of baseballs all time worst trades.
I don’t know why Bedard shouldn’t have a clean conscience. He had nothing to do with the trade and getting hurt isn’t exactly a sin.
To add further to my previous point regarding the possibility of Garko as catcher… the Jack Z M’s are clearly very progressive when it comes to maximizing value, and they seem to take into account the best interests of the player when doing so. They give players a chance to do things that other teams haven’t let them do. Examples: Hannahan as backup SS, Langerhans as regular, Branyan as regular, Figgins as primary 3B rather than utility. It would be like them to give Garko a real shot to be a catcher. And of course, if he just can’t cut it, it would be like them recognize that, just as they recognized that Morrow and Clement couldn’t cut it in their respective most valuable roles.
Reports are that Orlando Hudson has signed with the Twins. I guess that pretty much kills the Lopez-for-Liriano possibilities and increases the likelihood that Jose stays with the Ms.
It’s like you can see the future! Still, tthis depth chart is accurate until Bedard is ready. Maybe the team felt bad for you and didn’t want to steal USSM’s thunder again.
FWIW, Garko said last week that as he’d been getting inquiries from several teams about catching, over the winter he deliberately lost weight and began working out with that in mind as a possibility.
Also FWIW, at FF Wak made the remark (paraphrasing here) that Rob has the ability to make pitchers trust him; which is unquantifiable and possibly nonexistent as an actual skill, but a perception that manager and pitchers all seem to have of him.
I think we could see Johnson being an odd man. Depending on his comeback from those surgeries he had. If he can not survive spring training without re-aggravating an injury I don’t think the M’s keep him up and move Johnson to AAA or something to become a DH or 1B. Which with his bat skills seen last year, may not be the best thing to see him as a DH. It won’t matter how much pitchers like him catching, if his body can not handle the behind the plate duties then why keep him?
I’ve seen this a lot. Can you explain further? I know he hasn’t caught in a long time and he was never thought of as a good defensive catcher. Is that all, or is there something I’m missing here.
I’ve seen this a lot. Can you explain further? I know he hasn’t caught in a long time and he was never thought of as a good defensive catcher. Is that all, or is there something I’m missing here.
I want to second what rsrobinson said about Bedard. If you want to be down on him for work ethic, that is one thing, but the trade was all Bavasi – he had no control over any of it. As for getting hurt and coming out frequently, I know as a runner that if I start getting certain kinds of pains in my legs, I had better stop running or I am going to do real damage. With that in mind, it is hard to get down on him for paying attention to warning signals. If he does sign, I hope that all of Seattle will give him a warm welcome. In my mind it takes guts to come back to a place where you have been blasted just because you were involved in a trade and blasted again for getting hurt. He could have gone elsewhere, but he chose to come back to this team and city despite what many fans have said about him. And he did it for not much of a guarantee (1.5M). My hat is off to him.
I’d think that the defense supporting the pitchers and helping them to a .280 BABIP (best in MLB) from .313 in 2008 (6th worst in MLB) and .321 in 2007 (3rd worst) played a much larger and more measurable role in improving the success of the staff.
Garko’s huge splits mean that his main role is batting against southpaws, which is not that often.
If he’s 2nd catcher, it would reduce his value as a platoon partner for Kotchman and Griffey (both lefties). The far more likely scenario is that the team carries two other catchers, and Garko devotes most of his (fairly limited) time to platooning at 1B and DH, with a few substitutions at catcher. Basically he’d be a 1B-DH-C utility infielder against left-handed pitching. Which is not a bad option to have.
Of course everything changes if the Mariners land Adrian Gonzalez at the deadline. With the 1B platoon no longer necessary, it might make sense to make Garko a true 2nd catcher.
Rob Johnson has exactly zero value in baseball as anything other than a catcher. If he can’t catch, he’s not going to play any other position.
You do raise a good point, however, because the question of Johnson’s health going into the season pretty much determines whether Adam Moore is in Seattle or Tacoma. For my money, the best scenario for the M’s would make them forget Rob Johnson ever existed because Moore has a breakout season.