Bad News, Meet More Bad News
Baker and others have the news of the day, and it ain’t great. Cliff Lee is going to take five days off before throwing again, so realistically, his entire spring training is gone. He’s definitely going to need a DL stint, and by the time he gets stretched out enough to pitch in a big league game, it’s going to be the end of April or early May.
Beyond that, Wak comes pretty close to confirming the growing suspicion that the Mariners are going to make room on the team for Mike Sweeney because of how he’s hit this spring. Sweeney will displace Ryan Garko on the 25 man roster and serve as a part-time DH against lefties and play first base sparingly, as Kotchman will not be platooned.
Put chemistry and feeling goodness aside for a minute – this creates all kinds roster problems for the M’s. Now, against LHPs, you’ve got Sweeney, Bradley, and Byrnes for two spots – DH/LF. Bradley kills lefties, so you don’t want to take him out of the line-up against southpaws, but Byrnes’ role on the team is lefty mashing outfielder, and pushing Bradley to LF against LHPs takes away his playing time.
So, not only is Sweeney going to remove Garko from the roster, he also is going to take playing time away from Eric Byrnes and force Milton Bradley to play the field more often. Neither of those are positives. Plain and simple, Mike Sweeney makes this team worse.
Now, if you want to argue that the pies in the face and the jokes and all that stuff make up for it, fine, make that argument. But remember, Mike Sweeney’s been the best guy in baseball forever, and teams he’s been on have finished over .500 twice in his 15 year career. Last year’s 85 win Mariner team posted the best record of any team that Sweeney has ever played for. If his personality was vital to a winning team, don’t you think he may have actually played on one or two of them?
Of course, it’s not fair to blame Sweeney for having lousy teammates in Kansas City, but I’ll still suggest that you can’t make an argument that having Sweeney on the roster leads to lots of wins that we can’t measure when there’s no history of teams he’s been on playing better than you’d expect. He might be a lot of fun to be around and great for the clubhouse, but in the end, good teams win and bad teams lose. Mike Sweeney hasn’t made any bad teams good by hitting his teammates in the face with pies.
The Mariners have already wasted one roster spot on Griffey in the name of clubhouse chemistry. Now, it sounds like they’re going to waste two roster spots on clubhouse chemistry. When Kotchman is facing a tough lefty in a high leverage situation or the team can’t pinch hit for Jack Wilson with the bases loaded, you can thank the team’s desire to have both Griffey and Sweeney around. There are consequences to carrying these guys, and you’ll see them play out on the field.
Let’s hope the M’s can win a lot of games in spite of Sweeney’s presence, because otherwise, we may look back at the way the end of this roster was put together with an awful lot of regret.
Comments
81 Responses to “Bad News, Meet More Bad News”
The thing is though, a Kotchman/Garko platoon makes a pretty decent first baseman. Kotchman’s defense doesn’t make up for over 100 points in wOBA against lefties. As a “backup”, it’s true, there isn’t much difference between Garko and Sweeney. But Garko shouldn’t be a backup.
It doesn’t look like they’re going to platoon Kotchman, though. They’re planning on giving him the opportunity to play everday like they did with Branyan last year. If that’s the case I just don’t see it as a big deal that they’re going with Sweeney over Garko.
@Mekias, Kotchman’s splits are deceiving. Check prior to 2009, and you’ll see hit lefties better than that in previous years. That’s with small sample sizes, though.
I’m assuming the MGMT is hoping Kotchman, given a full-time role, will show more aptitude for hitting LHP and RHP equally (like he did in 2007, his most productive year).
Any split offense from Garko, plus any theoretical defensive upside, was apparently not enough of an improvement over Kotchman to warrant giving Garkster a roster spot.
That is true. He was okay against lefties before last year but it still seems like they’re relying too much on hoping and guessing when we know Garko is a consistent lefty killer. I was really looking forward to us destroying left-handed pitchers this year but now it looks like we’ll be almost as bad against lefties as we are projected to be against righties.
Great idea. I think Gaudin would be a good fix until Lee is ready. If he pitches well, he could stay in the rotation in the 4th or 5th spot or might make for decent trade bait if they need to switch things up come mid-season.
1. Garko is a nightmare defensively. I watched him in person on March 18, and he has no range, no reflexes, and can’t scoop low throws. I watched Kotchman on March 21, and he is terrific, as advertised. Kotchman is like being in an easy chair for an infielder, knowing that anything that isn’t ten feet high will be caught. Having the infielders go from Kotchman to Garko would make them hesitate every time they were throwing to Garko, and lead to really ugly games for the infield when he played.
2. The reality is that Sweeney hit wonderfully the second half of last year, and is hitting wonderfully this Spring. He has had injury problems for years. So the years when he was hurt should be discounted. When he is healthy, it looks like he can still hit very well – better than Garko. If Sweeney is healthy enough to play first at all, he won’t be much worse than Garko.
I say go with the hot hand.
So you think Sweeney will be healthy this season and put up what, the same numbers as he did “second half of last year”?
You honestly believe this, don’t you?
Looks like Z and/or Wak are trying to recapture the magic from a year ago. Maybe 5 Sweeney pies-to-the-face are worth 7 innings of Cliff Lee.
This “fun clubhouse” thing is just getting out of hand. I can’t even stand watching/listening/reading Mariner interviews anymore. There’s hardly been an interview since last season that hasn’t involved the word fun. I’m glad that’s the primary f-word being thrown around, but covering this team must be paradise for FSN, and that can’t be a good thing.
Does the choice of Sweeney over Garko really change things? Garko would fill the same role as Sweeney would — backup/occasional platoon player at both 1b and DH. I’m not sure how I see that this would alter the lineup or playing time for other players.
Does he have options left? If so, I don’t see what all the fuss is about. You can keep both guys in case of the inevitable injury or probable Bradley implosion.
Chemistry is a dumb reason to have a guy on the team-you might as well just hire someone as a coach rather than waste a roster spot. I can’t see the FO keeping Sweeney cause he’s nice. Perhaps its not that Sweeney is so good, but Garko is so bad. Maybe he’s shooting up in the dugout and banging Wak’s wife or something.
Weren’t we also speculating that Garko could do some catching?
What’s worse; Sweeney making the team or Tui making the team as the utility guy?
Sweeney. Tui isn’t ideal as a utility guy, but still has actual baseball skills.
Does anyone know where I can get bullpen split stats against lefties and righties such as the 09′ Mariners Bullpen vs. LHB/RHB? I can find ’09 Mariners bullpen stats but none that specify how they pitched against lefties and righties. Also, I can find the entire pitching staff against lhb/rhb but not the pen vs. lhb/rhb. Thanks
Go to a player’s page on Fangraphs and click on the splits tab.
Baker noted today that either Langerhans or Sweeney will most likely end up on the DL at the start of the season to save them from being put on waivers and claimed. (wink, wink Langerhans has an injury).
If Garko does not pose a risk of being picked up because of options, I don’t see the big deal in Garko starting off the season in AAA and basically letting the Mariners get a better feel for if/where he fits in this ball club. Maybe I need to be corrected, but I don’t see the Sweeney/Garko situation as being permanent throughout the season. There are too many factors such as injuries, under-performance, metal stability and the introduction of new Mariners to say anything definite about this being a mistake.
Also, if Garko is under-preforming at the AAA level and does not get to the big club, Carp stands a decent chance of being called up mid way through the season (if another big bat isn’t acquired in the first basemen position). From accounts I have read, Carp isn’t that far off from being ready for the big club if the opportunity presents itself later in the year. The problem is of course playing time in Tacoma too.
I don’t want just individual players vs. lhb/rhb. I mean the mariners bullpen as a whole vs. lhb/rhb. I want to see how the M’s bullpen did against rhb compared to the rest of the leagues bullpens to see if the idea of not having bullpen specialists is a good idea.
If Sweeney makes this club, I certainly hope it’s because of his bat and not for his pies. I’m inclined to give Jack and Wak the benefit of the doubt here. They must think Sweeney can still produce at the plate and would provide more overall value than Garko. I realize SP numbers don’t mean much but Sweeney has a long resume. It’s not like when Mike Morse tore it up a couple of years ago. Besides, Garko is only a phone call and 45 minutes away if Sweeney loses his mojo.
There’s a reason no one that posts on this site runs a major league team (that I know of). Is it even possible that the M’s leadership knows what they are doing or have a plan? Apparently not. This whole argument should be relegated to a fantasy league.
If we ever give up and turn off comments, its people like you that will be why.
Jeff/Dave/Derek-
Before I ask I want to make sure to be upfront that I’m not being facetious at all, but would honestly like to know:
Rather than hear you guys rant about how much keeping Sweeney makes you sick, I’d be interested to hear each of your opinions about why you think Wak and/or Z want to keep him on the roster? For fans of both them, and you guys, it’s a head scratcher for those of us with less baseball knowledge.
(And just like yesterday, and the post before that, I have to qualify that when I was saying Sweeney was gonna make the team, I’m not a fan of that decision– or even having Griffey on the roster. I wish there was someone other than Garko and Sweeney in the running.)
The more I think of it, the more I lean towards their keeping Sweeney around STILL as a courtesy to him, but expect to bring in someone else this last week, as that still unknown DH/1B becomes available off another team’s roster.
That’s the same hope I put forward a couple days ago too– that I could see us adding a starting pitcher and backup 1b/pinch hitter in the next week as rosters become set around the league.
much wringing of hands. let’s not forget that even Z is aware of the fact that the AL West is a crap shoot this year.
I wonder if the same people who are listing his Spring training line will be as quick to pull the plug after a similar number of at-bats in the regular season. The Mariners never did last year, which is a concern I would have if he does make the team and produces at a similar level.
To be clear since you lumped me in with Dave and Derek; I’m not a site author. I’m just a mod, and I am not even close to the caliber of the authors here (including the new ones) as far as analysis goes. I’d put myself down as “mildly educated fan”.
Disclaimer out of the way: I honestly don’t know why they’re keeping Sweeney (presuming they do, it looks to be pretty much a done deal). There’s a myriad of possibilities; a courtesy to someone who is by all accounts a really nice guy, to either let him finish out his career on the M’s roster, or maybe trying to give him an extended look to maximize his chances of hooking on with another team once the M’s just can’t afford to keep him anymore.
There’s also the possibility that he’s just filler until other teams’ waiver wires start moving, and they can replace his roster spot with someone who better fills their needs. It’s not like they’re on the hook for any huge amount if they cut him (I’m not sure what the actual number is off the top of my head) so if someone better pops up, they can free up the roster spot pretty easily. If they looked at the difference between Garko and Sweeney and shrugged, this is a pretty reasonable stance for them to take.
Let’s remember that we’re baseball bloggers and blog commenters; we’ve probably spent a LOT more time talking about the end of the Mariners’ bench than, well, anyone else. While I’d much rather have Garko on the final roster than Sweeney, the difference between them MIGHT end up being a win or two over the course of a full season. It’s not like we’re picking between Pujols and Bloomquist here.
Lastly, I’d be pretty sure that Wak and Zduriencik value “chemistry” more than I do; however, I’d lay good money on the fact that some theory about chemistry having a big effect on win totals isn’t the main reason they’re keeping Sweeney, or even particularly high on their list. So, ignore people who are taking this as some sort of validation for their harebrained theories; they’re grasping at straws.
and Tony Blengino mentioned the waiver wire just yesterday ….
let’s not forget that even Z is aware of the fact that the AL West is a crap shoot this year.
But it’s undercircumstances like this that every win in particularly high leverage. If Garko is, say, half a win better than Sweeney, the AL west being a “crap shoot” (by which I assume you mean unusually evenly matched) would be extra incentive to take every possible little edge you can get very seriously.
I wonder if the same people who are listing his Spring training line will be as quick to pull the plug after a similar number of at-bats in the regular season. The Mariners never did last year, which is a concern I would have if he does make the team and produces at a similar level.
Liam- You make a good point, one that I am a little concerned about. I think though that Sweeney doesn’t have icon status in Seattle in the same manner as Griffey. I’m inclined to believe that management would be willing to cut Sweeney, or more likely sent him to the 60 day DL with a strained whatseehoozee, if his production dropped off. I’m more concerned with their unwillingness to make a move with Griffey, even if he’s gotten to the point where he can only get around the bases in a wheelchair.
If they just wanted Sweeney around for chemistry, they would have re-signed him earlier in the offseason and not waited till February. And if they signed him just to showcase him to help him find a job, then…he evidently found a job. The team sees the players prepare, practice, and play everyday. Have any of us been AT all the meetings, workouts, etc.? Maybe the people who are getting paid to “watch,assess” the players know a little more than we do. Some of us need to get off the “chemistry” kick, and look at results. ST does count. It is a showcase for your talent, what you can and can’t do. Players are assessed by what they’ve done in past years, and if they can show in ST that they can still perform, better than another player, it only makes sense that they make the team. We aren’t a big market team, and don’t have the maquee players, and at times it’s really tiring to hear some of you sounding like “whinny” cub fans, or “arrogant” yankee fans thinking you know everything when you only know enough to confuse yourself. If I knew it all, I would be talking to Chuck Armstrong and get on thier payroll. Since I don’t, I guess I’ll just have faith in the organization to do what they think is best with what they have.
Couldn’t agree more. I was quite willing to accept the re-signing of Griffey- he’s our legend and sometimes you do things in accordance with that, even though I’m skeptical (at very best) his offensive output will be anything close to acceptable for a DH.
Sweeney’s a whole different bag of rocks. There is almost no real way for him to justify his spot on this team. I know he’s hit out of his mind this spring…but by the same token, I’ve won seventeen scratch tickets in a row before.
In both events, the odds for it to ever happen were pretty amazing….and the chances of keeping it up, impossible.
The one real thing, however, is that there’s a world of difference between breaking camp with a team and staying there. I’d bet my bottom dollar that even if Garko is relegated to Tacoma for the start of 2010, he’ll find some ABs here at some point in the year.
The only thing I’m hoping for is that when Sweeney comes back to Earth, it won’t have helped cost us too many victories early in the year that we can’t make up. I have absolutely no doubt that the division is a bona-fide slobberknocker this year.
Small aside to that last post- when you’re a team that’s going to have a tough time scoring runs (as we’ve indicated and written about ad nauseum in here)…roster flexibility is a must.
And now we don’t have it, coming out the gate.